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[Docs] .CLEAR tag update

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  • Eddy Anthony
    Man I found this tag to be rather confusing, especially since it seems that depending on the tag you are using it with it can have the exact opposite effect.
    Message 1 of 9 , Mar 31, 2005
      Man I found this tag to be rather confusing, especially since it seems that
      depending on the tag you are using it with it can have the exact opposite
      effect. I've tested all the given examples and they work as presented. I
      hope I've outlined all the possibilities well enough so that one can
      experiment and find which syntax works for the tag you want to modify.
      --
      ~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
      ~ PCGen Content Silverback

      *** Updated

      Tag Name: <tag>.CLEAR.<variable>

      Variables Used: Text, Last field is the item to be cleared

      What it does:

      This is used in conjunction with the .MOD and .COPY tags.
      This tag is also useful in CLASS lines. (see entry for SA in Other global
      tags)
      Tags that can have multiple items (such as TYPE) and tags that can be used
      multiple times can be eliminated.
      the .CLEAR syntax has not yet been standardized as many of the other tags
      have been and there are at least 3 variations on how it can be used. Some
      experimentation may be required to see which usage is required with which
      tags.

      Syntax usage:

      TAG:.CLEAR.<Values to be cleared>

      This syntax works with the SA tag and the CSKILL tag, the items which follow
      the .CLEAR. are cleared

      TAG:.CLEAR.<New values to be added>

      This syntax clears ALL the values of the original object and then adds back
      any items which follow the .CLEAR. This works with the TYPE tag and maybe
      others but not all tags.

      TAG:.CLEAR

      This syntax clears ALL the values of the original object. Some tags do not
      take the second syntax, for those tags you use this format and follow it
      with a second tag with you new values. Caution, PCGen works in a sequential
      manor and if the two tags order is swapped the new value will be cleared as
      well as the original values.

      Examples:

      CLASS:Toto

      1 <tab> SA:Big Papa

      2 <tab> SA:Big Mama

      3 <tab> SA:.CLEAR.Big Papa <tab> SA:Very Big Papa

      At level 3 .CLEAR is used to delete the SA 'Big Papa' because it becomes
      redundant or unnecessary when the class gets the SA 'Very Big Papa'. (in
      class.lst)

      CLASS:Ranger.MOD <tab> CSKILL:.CLEAR.Animal Empathy

      Modifies the Ranger class by eliminating the Animal Empathy skill from its
      class skill list (in class.lst)

      Dagger.COPY=Hunting Knife <tab>
      TYPE:.CLEAR.Weapon.Melee.Finesseable.Exotic.Standard.Piercing.Slashing.Dagge
      r

      Creates a new weapon called Hunting Knife, clears ALL the types from the new
      weapon and then adds back the desired types (in equipment.lst file).

      Acid Arrow.MOD <tab> SCHOOL:.CLEAR <tab> SCHOOL:Lesser Conjuration

      Modifies the Acid Arrow spell by eliminating the original value of the
      SCHOOL tag and then sets the new value with a second SCHOOL tag (in
      spell.lst)
    • Éric Beaudoin
      ... There should be a BIG NOTE IN FLASHING LETTER that this useage is deprecated. Far better and clearer to use TAG:.CLEAR TAG:
      Message 2 of 9 , Mar 31, 2005
        At 23:02 2005.03.31, Eddy Anthony wrote:
        >Syntax usage:
        >
        >TAG:.CLEAR.<Values to be cleared>
        >
        >This syntax works with the SA tag and the CSKILL tag, the items which follow
        >the .CLEAR. are cleared
        >
        >TAG:.CLEAR.<New values to be added>
        >
        >This syntax clears ALL the values of the original object and then adds back
        >any items which follow the .CLEAR. This works with the TYPE tag and maybe
        >others but not all tags.

        There should be a BIG NOTE IN FLASHING LETTER that this useage is deprecated. Far better and clearer to use

        TAG:.CLEAR <tab> TAG:<New values to be added>

        If we eliminate the CLEAR-then-add version, we will have less confusion with the CLEAR-list-of-elements version.


        >TAG:.CLEAR
        >
        >This syntax clears ALL the values of the original object. Some tags do not
        >take the second syntax, for those tags you use this format and follow it
        >with a second tag with you new values. Caution, PCGen works in a sequential
        >manor and if the two tags order is swapped the new value will be cleared as
        >well as the original values.
        >
        >Examples:
        >
        >CLASS:Toto
        >
        >1 <tab> SA:Big Papa
        >
        >2 <tab> SA:Big Mama
        >
        >3 <tab> SA:.CLEAR.Big Papa <tab> SA:Very Big Papa
        >
        >At level 3 .CLEAR is used to delete the SA 'Big Papa' because it becomes
        >redundant or unnecessary when the class gets the SA 'Very Big Papa'. (in
        >class.lst)

        See the file "Fun Tricks with SA and DEFINE tags v1.2.pdf" in the "Files > Additionnal Documentation" section of PCGenListFileHelp for some explanations and examples about .CLEAR, SA and the ().


        -----------------------------------------------------------
        Éric "Space Monkey" Beaudoin
        Founding Member of the Hidden-in-the-Trench Club
        Release Monkey and Syntax Watchdog
        >> In space, no one can hear you sleep.
        >> Camels to can climb trees (and sometime eat them).
        <mailto:beaudoer@...>
      • James Dempsey
        Hi, ... [snip] ... [snip] ... Is there a really good reason that we need to have this last sysntax possibility? Up until then it was looking ok, but that last
        Message 3 of 9 , Mar 31, 2005
          Hi,

          Quoting Eddy Anthony <eddyba@...>:

          > Man I found this tag to be rather confusing, especially since it seems that
          > depending on the tag you are using it with it can have the exact opposite
          > effect. I've tested all the given examples and they work as presented. I
          > hope I've outlined all the possibilities well enough so that one can
          > experiment and find which syntax works for the tag you want to modify.
          > --
          > ~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
          > ~ PCGen Content Silverback
          >
          > *** Updated
          >
          > Tag Name: <tag>.CLEAR.<variable>
          >
          > Variables Used: Text, Last field is the item to be cleared
          >
          [snip]
          >
          > TAG:.CLEAR.<Values to be cleared>
          >
          [snip]
          >
          > TAG:.CLEAR.<New values to be added>
          >

          Is there a really good reason that we need to have this last sysntax
          possibility? Up until then it was looking ok, but that last one is pretty
          confusing and I can see us getting lots of complaints about it not working as
          people have the syntax confused.

          Cheers,
          James Dempsey
          PCGen Code Gibbon
        • James Dempsey
          Hi, ... What version was this syntax option added in? If it was in the 5.7 series, we should be able to eliminate it without breaking too many homebrew files.
          Message 4 of 9 , Mar 31, 2005
            Hi,

            Quoting Éric Beaudoin <beaudoer@...>:

            >
            > At 23:02 2005.03.31, Eddy Anthony wrote:
            > >TAG:.CLEAR.<New values to be added>
            > >
            > >This syntax clears ALL the values of the original object and then adds
            > back
            > >any items which follow the .CLEAR. This works with the TYPE tag and maybe
            > >others but not all tags.
            >
            > There should be a BIG NOTE IN FLASHING LETTER that this useage is deprecated.
            > Far better and clearer to use
            >
            > TAG:.CLEAR <tab> TAG:<New values to be added>
            >
            > If we eliminate the CLEAR-then-add version, we will have less confusion with
            > the CLEAR-list-of-elements version.

            What version was this syntax option added in? If it was in the 5.7 series, we
            should be able to eliminate it without breaking too many homebrew files. It
            would be really nice to be able to drop this one.

            Cheers,
            James Dempsey
            PCGen Code Gibbon
          • Éric Beaudoin
            ... I believe that both versions date from before the last Ice Age. It would be very easy to convert the .CLEAR-then-add version in two tags if we know the
            Message 5 of 9 , Mar 31, 2005
              At 23:23 2005.03.31, James Dempsey wrote:
              >Hi,
              >
              >Quoting Éric Beaudoin <beaudoer@...>:
              >
              >>
              >> At 23:02 2005.03.31, Eddy Anthony wrote:
              >> >TAG:.CLEAR.<New values to be added>
              >> >
              >> >This syntax clears ALL the values of the original object and then adds
              >> back
              >> >any items which follow the .CLEAR. This works with the TYPE tag and maybe
              >> >others but not all tags.
              >>
              >> There should be a BIG NOTE IN FLASHING LETTER that this useage is deprecated.
              >> Far better and clearer to use
              >>
              >> TAG:.CLEAR <tab> TAG:<New values to be added>
              >>
              >> If we eliminate the CLEAR-then-add version, we will have less confusion with
              >> the CLEAR-list-of-elements version.
              >
              >What version was this syntax option added in? If it was in the 5.7 series, we
              >should be able to eliminate it without breaking too many homebrew files. It
              >would be really nice to be able to drop this one.

              I believe that both versions date from before the last Ice Age.

              It would be very easy to convert the .CLEAR-then-add version in two tags if we know the exact list of tags that work this way. I'm not sure we want to do it this late in the 5.8.0 tree though.


              -----------------------------------------------------------
              Éric "Space Monkey" Beaudoin
              Founding Member of the Hidden-in-the-Trench Club
              Release Monkey and Syntax Watchdog
              >> In space, no one can hear you sleep.
              >> Camels to can climb trees (and sometime eat them).
              <mailto:beaudoer@...>
            • Eddy Anthony
              ... I can t tell you that but I do think it was changed, I try and test the stuff I document as best I can and I do remember working on the .CLEAR entry about
              Message 6 of 9 , Mar 31, 2005
                James Dempsey scribed:

                > What version was this syntax option added in? If it was in the 5.7 series, we
                > should be able to eliminate it without breaking too many homebrew files. It
                > would be really nice to be able to drop this one.

                I can't tell you that but I do think it was changed, I try and test the
                stuff I document as best I can and I do remember working on the .CLEAR entry
                about a year ago and at that time I believe it worked as it is described in
                the docs currently (at least with TYPE) so TYPE:.CLEAR.Simple eliminates the
                Simple type, now that same tag clears all the types and ADDs simple.
                --
                ~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
                ~ PCGen Content Silverback
              • Eddy Anthony
                ... I ll check it out, mind if I add it to the list file class section? -- ~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT) ~ PCGen Content Silverback
                Message 7 of 9 , Mar 31, 2005
                  Éric Beaudoin scribed:

                  > See the file "Fun Tricks with SA and DEFINE tags v1.2.pdf" in the "Files >
                  > Additionnal Documentation" section of PCGenListFileHelp for some explanations
                  > and examples about .CLEAR, SA and the ().

                  I'll check it out, mind if I add it to the list file class section?
                  --
                  ~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
                  ~ PCGen Content Silverback
                • Éric Beaudoin
                  ... It was freely given so you do what you want with it :-). I might even still have the .doc file that I used to generate the PDF somewhere if you want it.
                  Message 8 of 9 , Mar 31, 2005
                    At 23:54 2005.03.31, Eddy Anthony wrote:
                    >Éric Beaudoin scribed:
                    >
                    >> See the file "Fun Tricks with SA and DEFINE tags v1.2.pdf" in the "Files >
                    >> Additionnal Documentation" section of PCGenListFileHelp for some explanations
                    >> and examples about .CLEAR, SA and the ().
                    >
                    >I'll check it out, mind if I add it to the list file class section?

                    It was freely given so you do what you want with it :-). I might even still have the .doc file that I used to generate the PDF somewhere if you want it.

                    You should be aware that it is a bit dated. I'm not sure everything sugested in there is still state of the art. For example, the SA now accept the PRExxx tags and that should always be prefered to using the 0 value var trick.


                    -----------------------------------------------------------
                    Éric "Space Monkey" Beaudoin
                    Founding Member of the Hidden-in-the-Trench Club
                    Release Monkey and Syntax Watchdog
                    >> In space, no one can hear you sleep.
                    >> Camels to can climb trees (and sometime eat them).
                    <mailto:beaudoer@...>
                  • Zevious
                    My understanding for the existence of the multiple ways of doing .CLEAR is the fact that with some tags, you can only have one instance in a given object. So
                    Message 9 of 9 , Apr 1 7:30 AM
                      My understanding for the existence of the multiple ways of doing .CLEAR is
                      the fact that with some tags, you can only have one instance in a given
                      object. So TAG:.CLEAR & TAG:ADD would fail with it either ignoring one or
                      with an error.


                      Zev


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