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Dire Animal good will saves in 5.8?

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  • Eric Jarman
    I reported a bug with Dire Animals not getting good will saves a while back, which was trackered as a data freq, since there should be another animal class
    Message 1 of 7 , Mar 2, 2005
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      I reported a bug with Dire Animals not getting good will saves a while
      back, which was trackered as a data freq, since there should be another
      animal class that provides the good will save.

      I know that this would also affect the Lycanthrope classes that are
      being added, since any Lycanthrope that transforms into a Dire creature
      would not get the good will saves it should for it's dire animal hit dice.

      My question is: should this be changed from a freq to a bug? or possibly
      bumped up in priority?
    • Eddy Anthony
      ... This was changed to a Freq as the code does not exist. It doesn t look to difficult, I ll bump it up. This will not, however, effect the Lycanthrope
      Message 2 of 7 , Mar 2, 2005
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        Eric Jarman scribed:

        > I reported a bug with Dire Animals not getting good will saves a while
        > back, which was trackered as a data freq, since there should be another
        > animal class that provides the good will save.
        >
        > I know that this would also affect the Lycanthrope classes that are
        > being added, since any Lycanthrope that transforms into a Dire creature
        > would not get the good will saves it should for it's dire animal hit dice.
        >
        > My question is: should this be changed from a freq to a bug? or possibly
        > bumped up in priority?

        This was changed to a Freq as the code does not exist. It doesn't look to
        difficult, I'll bump it up.

        This will not, however, effect the Lycanthrope classes because those classes
        do not grant any check bonuses. The save bonuses are granted in the
        templates for the different Lycanthrope forms.

        You might think this is odd and I wouldn't disagree, it has resulted from
        the fact that the Lycanthrope levels were added in such a way that it added
        to the templates as they existed. When I was putting them together I
        realized the Lycanthrope feature could be implemented entirely from a class
        so rather than have the class require the template the template would be
        hidden and applied by the class, so maybe an overhaul is a possibility.
        --
        ~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
        ~ PCGen Content Silverback
      • Eric Jarman
        ... If I remember correctly, I attached a line for the animal class with good will saves that works for the RSRD to the tracker a while back. It was a simple
        Message 3 of 7 , Mar 2, 2005
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          Eddy Anthony wrote:

          >Eric Jarman scribed:
          >
          >
          >
          >>I reported a bug with Dire Animals not getting good will saves a while
          >>back, which was trackered as a data freq, since there should be another
          >>animal class that provides the good will save.
          >>
          >>I know that this would also affect the Lycanthrope classes that are
          >>being added, since any Lycanthrope that transforms into a Dire creature
          >>would not get the good will saves it should for it's dire animal hit dice.
          >>
          >>My question is: should this be changed from a freq to a bug? or possibly
          >>bumped up in priority?
          >>
          >>
          >
          >This was changed to a Freq as the code does not exist. It doesn't look to
          >difficult, I'll bump it up.
          >
          >
          >
          If I remember correctly, I attached a line for the animal class with
          good will saves that works for the RSRD to the tracker a while back. It
          was a simple change to make the dire animals use it too.

          >This will not, however, effect the Lycanthrope classes because those classes
          >do not grant any check bonuses. The save bonuses are granted in the
          >templates for the different Lycanthrope forms.
          >
          >
          >
          Yeah, I keep forgetting how the lycanthropes work in the current code.
          It isn't exceptionally intuitive.

          >You might think this is odd and I wouldn't disagree, it has resulted from
          >the fact that the Lycanthrope levels were added in such a way that it added
          >to the templates as they existed. When I was putting them together I
          >realized the Lycanthrope feature could be implemented entirely from a class
          >so rather than have the class require the template the template would be
          >hidden and applied by the class, so maybe an overhaul is a possibility.
          >
          >
          I think that an overhaul would be quite useful, since there is nothing
          in the RSRD which says a character can't continue to take levels in the
          animal class. It only says that they gain a number of animal hitdice
          equal to the base number the animal has, effectively multiclassing as
          the animal.
          The only reason I can think of to do so is to continue to gain BAB and
          Save bonuses after 20th level, since animal hitdice don't give up their
          progressions after level 20. Otherwise, the skill selections kindof suck
          for most animal classes.
        • Tir Gwaith
          ... Man, I thought I d committed the Animal Saves thing a while back. Like soon after teh Humanoid variations. Hang on a few minutes for that. ... Um,
          Message 4 of 7 , Mar 3, 2005
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            > >This was changed to a Freq as the code does not exist. It doesn't look to
            > >difficult, I'll bump it up.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > If I remember correctly, I attached a line for the animal class with
            > good will saves that works for the RSRD to the tracker a while back. It
            > was a simple change to make the dire animals use it too.

            Man, I thought I'd committed the Animal Saves thing a while back. Like soon
            after teh Humanoid variations.

            Hang on a few minutes for that.

            > I think that an overhaul would be quite useful, since there is nothing
            > in the RSRD which says a character can't continue to take levels in the
            > animal class. It only says that they gain a number of animal hitdice
            > equal to the base number the animal has, effectively multiclassing as
            > the animal.
            > The only reason I can think of to do so is to continue to gain BAB and
            > Save bonuses after 20th level, since animal hitdice don't give up their
            > progressions after level 20. Otherwise, the skill selections kindof suck
            > for most animal classes.

            Um, creature Hit dice can only be advanced if there is a Hit Dice
            Advancement listed in the creature. I wouldn't want to see a work-around
            that rule for a creature that is half the base creature, and half-humanoid.
            Doesn't shake right. Always assume against the player. I'm of the opinion
            that since it doesn't say, that they can't advance beyond those given
            levels.

            Tir Gwaith
            LST Chimp
          • Tir Gwaith
            ... In CVS. I ve closed the tracker, having linked the Dire Animals to the new class ( Animal (Will) ) which gets all good saves. The 3.0 SRD just states
            Message 5 of 7 , Mar 3, 2005
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              > This was changed to a Freq as the code does not exist. It doesn't look to
              > difficult, I'll bump it up.

              In CVS. I've closed the tracker, having linked the Dire Animals to the new
              class ("Animal (Will)") which gets all good saves.

              The 3.0 SRD just states "usually Fort and Reflex" so I've left that alone
              for now. Changed the tracker to reflect just the RSRD changes.

              Tir Gwaith
              LST Chimp
            • Eddy Anthony
              ... Thanks. ... Just going by the numbers the SRD dire animals will need this treatment, I created several SRD dire creatures and the Will save did not match
              Message 6 of 7 , Mar 3, 2005
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                On 3/3/05 6:11 AM, "Tir Gwaith" <thoron-tir-gwaith@...> wrote:

                > In CVS. I've closed the tracker, having linked the Dire Animals to the new
                > class ("Animal (Will)") which gets all good saves.

                Thanks.

                > The 3.0 SRD just states "usually Fort and Reflex" so I've left that alone
                > for now. Changed the tracker to reflect just the RSRD changes.

                Just going by the numbers the SRD dire animals will need this treatment, I
                created several SRD dire creatures and the Will save did not match the text
                so they do have good Will saves.
                --
                ~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
                ~ PCGen Content Silverback
              • Tir Gwaith
                ... alone ... text ... Ah, ok. I ll do a quick entry for the variation that has all the saves, like the RSRD, and link the Dire creatures to that. Prob. call
                Message 7 of 7 , Mar 3, 2005
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                  > > The 3.0 SRD just states "usually Fort and Reflex" so I've left that
                  alone
                  > > for now. Changed the tracker to reflect just the RSRD changes.
                  >
                  > Just going by the numbers the SRD dire animals will need this treatment, I
                  > created several SRD dire creatures and the Will save did not match the
                  text
                  > so they do have good Will saves.

                  Ah, ok. I'll do a quick entry for the variation that has all the saves,
                  like the RSRD, and link the Dire creatures to that.

                  Prob. call it "Animal (All)" in the SRD just in case there is a different
                  variant....

                  Tir Gwaith
                  LST Chimp
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