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Re: [pcgen] Re: [DOCS] FUMBLERANGE new tag entry

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  • Kevin Brown
    ... Only games at this time that I can think of that don t have a Fumble Range start at 1 would be games like GURPS where fumble starts at 3 and can go up to
    Message 1 of 10 , Feb 28, 2005
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      merton_monk wrote:

      >
      > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Evan" <evan.miller@f...> wrote:
      >
      >>
      >>>Goes in Equipment files
      >>>
      >>>*** New 5.7.15
      >>>Tag Name: FUMBLERANGE:x
      >>>
      >>>Variables Used (x): Text (Equipment fumble range)
      >>>
      >>>What it does:
      >>>This is text which indicates the equipments fumble or error range.
      >>
      >>This tag
      >>
      >>>may also be used in EQMOD lines. If an equipment item has EQMODs,
      >>
      >>the
      >>
      >>>FUMBLERANGE text from the EQMOD supercedes the text from the item
      >>
      >>itself
      >>
      >>>(EQMODs applied to the primary weapon head trumps text in EQMODs
      >>
      >>applied to
      >>
      >>>the secondary weapon head).
      >>>
      >>>Example:
      >>>
      >>>FUMBLERANGE:1-3
      >>>Indicates and error range of 1-3.
      >>>
      >>>FUMBLERANGE:Natural 1
      >>>Indicates and error range of a natural 1.
      >>>
      >>
      >>Nice. However, why not keep the same format as CRITRANGE? Just a
      >>FUMBLERANGE:3 for 1-3, or FUMBLERANGE:1 for a natural 1? It would
      >>be a bit more intuitive to keep them the same (although I understand
      >>that the coding is probably done on it at this point).
      >
      >
      > For D20 I think your suggestion is spot-on. Thinking outside of d20,
      > I'm not sure if we can assume that a fumble-range will always start at
      > 1. I'm kind of divided on whether it should be straight text like it
      > is (and I'm the one that coded it!). We went with text because you can
      > put specific comments in there, like "only on a natural one" or "a 1
      > followed by a confirmed miss" that some games might have. If no games
      > seem to really need that, then a formula like CRITRANGE would make
      > more sense.

      Only games at this time that I can think of that don't have a Fumble Range start
      at 1 would be games like GURPS where fumble starts at 3 and can go up to 5, IIRC
      because you are rolling 3d6 for your checks.

      All others seem to use either 1 on a D20 as the start of the crit miss range, or
      don't have it. D&D does not have a crit miss. A 1 is a normal, you just don't
      connect number and only affects saving throws and attack rolls. Skill checks,
      Attribute checks, etc... have no special meaning for 1 and 20. And then you
      have all the GMs and all their funky house rules :)
    • ovka
      ... To accommodate this, there could be a preference setting for fumble_range_starts_at n. This assumes, of course, that FUMBLERANGE is numeric. ;) Cheers,
      Message 2 of 10 , Mar 1, 2005
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        --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin Brown" <kevin_brown@q...> wrote:
        >Only games at this time that I can think of that don't have a Fumble
        >Range start
        >at 1 would be games like GURPS where fumble starts at 3 and can go
        >up to 5, IIRC
        >because you are rolling 3d6 for your checks.

        To accommodate this, there could be a preference setting for
        fumble_range_starts_at n. This assumes, of course, that FUMBLERANGE
        is numeric. ;)

        Cheers,

        Sir George Anonymous
      • thoron-tir-gwaith@lycos.com
        I think you ve got it right, Bryan. We should use the same format as CRITRANGE, since our main support is d20. This will allow things like some funky weapons
        Message 3 of 10 , Mar 1, 2005
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          I think you've got it right, Bryan. We should use the same format as CRITRANGE, since our main support is d20. This will allow things like some funky weapons that are considered "unweildy" for some OGL/d20 products. Or a flaw I've been thinking of that increases the range a character fumbles on... Other objects besides the equipment will be able to modify that number, where as a free-text means it is permanent, and we might as well go to a simple SPROP instead of a special tag just for that.

          For other game systems, like the ones Kevin mentioned, eventually we could set a Base number for fumble in GameMode (d20 would be 1) and then the range goes from there.

          Not having it as a free text (I.e. a value it can use) will make it easier for GMGen for combat tracking stuff.....

          For the stuff like "Fumble on natural 1, then confirmed miss" that sounds like a good candidate for a SPROP tag on the equipment, or SA for the character if it differs from that game's normal rules.

          Tir Gwaith
          LST Chimp
        • Evan
          ... range. ... EQMODs, ... item ... EQMODs ... a ... would ... understand ... at ... Except, PCGen only supports D20 systems. I am confoosed... :/ Unless
          Message 4 of 10 , Mar 1, 2005
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            --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "merton_monk" <merton_monk@y...> wrote:
            >
            > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Evan" <evan.miller@f...> wrote:
            > >
            > >
            > > > Goes in Equipment files
            > > >
            > > > *** New 5.7.15
            > > > Tag Name: FUMBLERANGE:x
            > > >
            > > > Variables Used (x): Text (Equipment fumble range)
            > > >
            > > > What it does:
            > > > This is text which indicates the equipments fumble or error
            range.
            > > This tag
            > > > may also be used in EQMOD lines. If an equipment item has
            EQMODs,
            > > the
            > > > FUMBLERANGE text from the EQMOD supercedes the text from the
            item
            > > itself
            > > > (EQMODs applied to the primary weapon head trumps text in
            EQMODs
            > > applied to
            > > > the secondary weapon head).
            > > >
            > > > Example:
            > > >
            > > > FUMBLERANGE:1-3
            > > > Indicates and error range of 1-3.
            > > >
            > > > FUMBLERANGE:Natural 1
            > > > Indicates and error range of a natural 1.
            > > >
            > >
            > > Nice. However, why not keep the same format as CRITRANGE? Just
            a
            > > FUMBLERANGE:3 for 1-3, or FUMBLERANGE:1 for a natural 1? It
            would
            > > be a bit more intuitive to keep them the same (although I
            understand
            > > that the coding is probably done on it at this point).
            >
            > For D20 I think your suggestion is spot-on. Thinking outside of d20,
            > I'm not sure if we can assume that a fumble-range will always start
            at
            > 1.

            Except, PCGen only supports D20 systems. I am confoosed... :/
            Unless looking forward PCGen is going to be supporting more than D20
            and so this was coded with that in mind.

            I know there's the forthcoming RPG Tookit program. I have a wait and
            see attitude about RPG Toolkit. I like PCGen because I can program
            books I buy into it... if RPG Toolkit uses LST then great, if it uses
            something like XML, I'll probably skip it. I don't want to have to
            learn a whole new programming language to use the program.

            Evan
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