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[DOCS] FUMBLERANGE new tag entry

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  • Eddy Anthony
    This is a new tag for equipment. In some games like Spycraft weapons and other equipment have a Fumble range or error range which is the opposite of Critical
    Message 1 of 10 , Feb 27, 2005
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      This is a new tag for equipment. In some games like Spycraft weapons and
      other equipment have a Fumble range or error range which is the opposite of
      Critical range meaning if you roll a natural 1 bad things happen. This tag
      supplies a place to enter that text.
      --
      ~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
      ~ PCGen Content Silverback
      ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Goes in Equipment files

      *** New 5.7.15
      Tag Name: FUMBLERANGE:x

      Variables Used (x): Text (Equipment fumble range)

      What it does:
      This is text which indicates the equipments fumble or error range. This tag
      may also be used in EQMOD lines. If an equipment item has EQMODs, the
      FUMBLERANGE text from the EQMOD supercedes the text from the item itself
      (EQMODs applied to the primary weapon head trumps text in EQMODs applied to
      the secondary weapon head).

      Example:

      FUMBLERANGE:1-3
      Indicates and error range of 1-3.

      FUMBLERANGE:Natural 1
      Indicates and error range of a natural 1.

      ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Goes in Equipment Modifier files

      *** New 5.7.15
      Tag Name: FUMBLERANGE:x

      Variables Used (x): Text (Equipment fumble range)

      What it does:
      This is text which indicates the equipments fumble or error range. This tag
      may also be used in Equipment lines. If an equipment item has EQMODs, the
      FUMBLERANGE text from the EQMOD supercedes the text from the item itself
      (EQMODs applied to the primary weapon head trumps text in EQMODs applied to
      the secondary weapon head).

      Example:

      FUMBLERANGE:1-3
      Indicates and error range of 1-3.

      FUMBLERANGE:Natural 1
      Indicates and error range of a natural 1.

      ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
      This is an abbreviated entry of the token used to output the FUMBLERANGE
      text.

      Token Name: EQ.IS.x.y.z

      Variables Used (x): Text (Subtype or "CONTAINED").
      Variables Used (y): Number (The equipment position number - 0-based index).
      Variables Used (z): Text (property).
      € FUMBLERANGE - Displays the text from the FUMBLERANGE tag.
    • Truth
      ... I m not sure how the system actually works, but shouldn t a EQMOD applied to the primary head only apply to that head? -- Truth. There is no religion
      Message 2 of 10 , Feb 27, 2005
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        On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 18:33:57 -0500, Eddy Anthony <eddyba@...> wrote:
        > What it does:
        > This is text which indicates the equipments fumble or error range. This tag
        > may also be used in EQMOD lines. If an equipment item has EQMODs, the
        > FUMBLERANGE text from the EQMOD supercedes the text from the item itself
        > (EQMODs applied to the primary weapon head trumps text in EQMODs applied to
        > the secondary weapon head).

        I'm not sure how the system actually works, but shouldn't a EQMOD
        applied to the primary head only apply to that head?

        --
        Truth.
        There is no religion higher than the Truth.
      • Thomas Clegg
        Also, will be able to do a BONUS: to the FUMBLERANGE? or is it just a text? I can think of a couple of Spycraft type mods that adjusts the Fumblerange (in
        Message 3 of 10 , Feb 27, 2005
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          Also, will be able to do a BONUS: to the FUMBLERANGE? or is it just a text?
          I can think of a couple of Spycraft type mods that adjusts the Fumblerange
          (in either direction)

          Tom


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Eddy Anthony
          ... Currently no, since it is just text. I agree this would be useful, I would think it should work like critical range. -- ~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT) ~ PCGen
          Message 4 of 10 , Feb 27, 2005
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            Thomas Clegg scribed:

            > Also, will be able to do a BONUS: to the FUMBLERANGE? or is it just a text?
            > I can think of a couple of Spycraft type mods that adjusts the Fumblerange
            > (in either direction)
            >
            > Tom

            Currently no, since it is just text. I agree this would be useful, I would
            think it should work like critical range.
            --
            ~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
            ~ PCGen Content Silverback
          • Evan
            ... This tag ... the ... itself ... applied to ... Nice. However, why not keep the same format as CRITRANGE? Just a FUMBLERANGE:3 for 1-3, or FUMBLERANGE:1
            Message 5 of 10 , Feb 27, 2005
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              > Goes in Equipment files
              >
              > *** New 5.7.15
              > Tag Name: FUMBLERANGE:x
              >
              > Variables Used (x): Text (Equipment fumble range)
              >
              > What it does:
              > This is text which indicates the equipments fumble or error range.
              This tag
              > may also be used in EQMOD lines. If an equipment item has EQMODs,
              the
              > FUMBLERANGE text from the EQMOD supercedes the text from the item
              itself
              > (EQMODs applied to the primary weapon head trumps text in EQMODs
              applied to
              > the secondary weapon head).
              >
              > Example:
              >
              > FUMBLERANGE:1-3
              > Indicates and error range of 1-3.
              >
              > FUMBLERANGE:Natural 1
              > Indicates and error range of a natural 1.
              >

              Nice. However, why not keep the same format as CRITRANGE? Just a
              FUMBLERANGE:3 for 1-3, or FUMBLERANGE:1 for a natural 1? It would
              be a bit more intuitive to keep them the same (although I understand
              that the coding is probably done on it at this point).

              Evan
            • merton_monk
              ... For D20 I think your suggestion is spot-on. Thinking outside of d20, I m not sure if we can assume that a fumble-range will always start at 1. I m kind of
              Message 6 of 10 , Feb 28, 2005
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                --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Evan" <evan.miller@f...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > > Goes in Equipment files
                > >
                > > *** New 5.7.15
                > > Tag Name: FUMBLERANGE:x
                > >
                > > Variables Used (x): Text (Equipment fumble range)
                > >
                > > What it does:
                > > This is text which indicates the equipments fumble or error range.
                > This tag
                > > may also be used in EQMOD lines. If an equipment item has EQMODs,
                > the
                > > FUMBLERANGE text from the EQMOD supercedes the text from the item
                > itself
                > > (EQMODs applied to the primary weapon head trumps text in EQMODs
                > applied to
                > > the secondary weapon head).
                > >
                > > Example:
                > >
                > > FUMBLERANGE:1-3
                > > Indicates and error range of 1-3.
                > >
                > > FUMBLERANGE:Natural 1
                > > Indicates and error range of a natural 1.
                > >
                >
                > Nice. However, why not keep the same format as CRITRANGE? Just a
                > FUMBLERANGE:3 for 1-3, or FUMBLERANGE:1 for a natural 1? It would
                > be a bit more intuitive to keep them the same (although I understand
                > that the coding is probably done on it at this point).

                For D20 I think your suggestion is spot-on. Thinking outside of d20,
                I'm not sure if we can assume that a fumble-range will always start at
                1. I'm kind of divided on whether it should be straight text like it
                is (and I'm the one that coded it!). We went with text because you can
                put specific comments in there, like "only on a natural one" or "a 1
                followed by a confirmed miss" that some games might have. If no games
                seem to really need that, then a formula like CRITRANGE would make
                more sense.

                -Bryan

                >
                > Evan
              • Kevin Brown
                ... Only games at this time that I can think of that don t have a Fumble Range start at 1 would be games like GURPS where fumble starts at 3 and can go up to
                Message 7 of 10 , Feb 28, 2005
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                  merton_monk wrote:

                  >
                  > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Evan" <evan.miller@f...> wrote:
                  >
                  >>
                  >>>Goes in Equipment files
                  >>>
                  >>>*** New 5.7.15
                  >>>Tag Name: FUMBLERANGE:x
                  >>>
                  >>>Variables Used (x): Text (Equipment fumble range)
                  >>>
                  >>>What it does:
                  >>>This is text which indicates the equipments fumble or error range.
                  >>
                  >>This tag
                  >>
                  >>>may also be used in EQMOD lines. If an equipment item has EQMODs,
                  >>
                  >>the
                  >>
                  >>>FUMBLERANGE text from the EQMOD supercedes the text from the item
                  >>
                  >>itself
                  >>
                  >>>(EQMODs applied to the primary weapon head trumps text in EQMODs
                  >>
                  >>applied to
                  >>
                  >>>the secondary weapon head).
                  >>>
                  >>>Example:
                  >>>
                  >>>FUMBLERANGE:1-3
                  >>>Indicates and error range of 1-3.
                  >>>
                  >>>FUMBLERANGE:Natural 1
                  >>>Indicates and error range of a natural 1.
                  >>>
                  >>
                  >>Nice. However, why not keep the same format as CRITRANGE? Just a
                  >>FUMBLERANGE:3 for 1-3, or FUMBLERANGE:1 for a natural 1? It would
                  >>be a bit more intuitive to keep them the same (although I understand
                  >>that the coding is probably done on it at this point).
                  >
                  >
                  > For D20 I think your suggestion is spot-on. Thinking outside of d20,
                  > I'm not sure if we can assume that a fumble-range will always start at
                  > 1. I'm kind of divided on whether it should be straight text like it
                  > is (and I'm the one that coded it!). We went with text because you can
                  > put specific comments in there, like "only on a natural one" or "a 1
                  > followed by a confirmed miss" that some games might have. If no games
                  > seem to really need that, then a formula like CRITRANGE would make
                  > more sense.

                  Only games at this time that I can think of that don't have a Fumble Range start
                  at 1 would be games like GURPS where fumble starts at 3 and can go up to 5, IIRC
                  because you are rolling 3d6 for your checks.

                  All others seem to use either 1 on a D20 as the start of the crit miss range, or
                  don't have it. D&D does not have a crit miss. A 1 is a normal, you just don't
                  connect number and only affects saving throws and attack rolls. Skill checks,
                  Attribute checks, etc... have no special meaning for 1 and 20. And then you
                  have all the GMs and all their funky house rules :)
                • ovka
                  ... To accommodate this, there could be a preference setting for fumble_range_starts_at n. This assumes, of course, that FUMBLERANGE is numeric. ;) Cheers,
                  Message 8 of 10 , Mar 1, 2005
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                    --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin Brown" <kevin_brown@q...> wrote:
                    >Only games at this time that I can think of that don't have a Fumble
                    >Range start
                    >at 1 would be games like GURPS where fumble starts at 3 and can go
                    >up to 5, IIRC
                    >because you are rolling 3d6 for your checks.

                    To accommodate this, there could be a preference setting for
                    fumble_range_starts_at n. This assumes, of course, that FUMBLERANGE
                    is numeric. ;)

                    Cheers,

                    Sir George Anonymous
                  • thoron-tir-gwaith@lycos.com
                    I think you ve got it right, Bryan. We should use the same format as CRITRANGE, since our main support is d20. This will allow things like some funky weapons
                    Message 9 of 10 , Mar 1, 2005
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                      I think you've got it right, Bryan. We should use the same format as CRITRANGE, since our main support is d20. This will allow things like some funky weapons that are considered "unweildy" for some OGL/d20 products. Or a flaw I've been thinking of that increases the range a character fumbles on... Other objects besides the equipment will be able to modify that number, where as a free-text means it is permanent, and we might as well go to a simple SPROP instead of a special tag just for that.

                      For other game systems, like the ones Kevin mentioned, eventually we could set a Base number for fumble in GameMode (d20 would be 1) and then the range goes from there.

                      Not having it as a free text (I.e. a value it can use) will make it easier for GMGen for combat tracking stuff.....

                      For the stuff like "Fumble on natural 1, then confirmed miss" that sounds like a good candidate for a SPROP tag on the equipment, or SA for the character if it differs from that game's normal rules.

                      Tir Gwaith
                      LST Chimp
                    • Evan
                      ... range. ... EQMODs, ... item ... EQMODs ... a ... would ... understand ... at ... Except, PCGen only supports D20 systems. I am confoosed... :/ Unless
                      Message 10 of 10 , Mar 1, 2005
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                        --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "merton_monk" <merton_monk@y...> wrote:
                        >
                        > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Evan" <evan.miller@f...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > > Goes in Equipment files
                        > > >
                        > > > *** New 5.7.15
                        > > > Tag Name: FUMBLERANGE:x
                        > > >
                        > > > Variables Used (x): Text (Equipment fumble range)
                        > > >
                        > > > What it does:
                        > > > This is text which indicates the equipments fumble or error
                        range.
                        > > This tag
                        > > > may also be used in EQMOD lines. If an equipment item has
                        EQMODs,
                        > > the
                        > > > FUMBLERANGE text from the EQMOD supercedes the text from the
                        item
                        > > itself
                        > > > (EQMODs applied to the primary weapon head trumps text in
                        EQMODs
                        > > applied to
                        > > > the secondary weapon head).
                        > > >
                        > > > Example:
                        > > >
                        > > > FUMBLERANGE:1-3
                        > > > Indicates and error range of 1-3.
                        > > >
                        > > > FUMBLERANGE:Natural 1
                        > > > Indicates and error range of a natural 1.
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > Nice. However, why not keep the same format as CRITRANGE? Just
                        a
                        > > FUMBLERANGE:3 for 1-3, or FUMBLERANGE:1 for a natural 1? It
                        would
                        > > be a bit more intuitive to keep them the same (although I
                        understand
                        > > that the coding is probably done on it at this point).
                        >
                        > For D20 I think your suggestion is spot-on. Thinking outside of d20,
                        > I'm not sure if we can assume that a fumble-range will always start
                        at
                        > 1.

                        Except, PCGen only supports D20 systems. I am confoosed... :/
                        Unless looking forward PCGen is going to be supporting more than D20
                        and so this was coded with that in mind.

                        I know there's the forthcoming RPG Tookit program. I have a wait and
                        see attitude about RPG Toolkit. I like PCGen because I can program
                        books I buy into it... if RPG Toolkit uses LST then great, if it uses
                        something like XML, I'll probably skip it. I don't want to have to
                        learn a whole new programming language to use the program.

                        Evan
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