Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: [pcgen] Sword, Bastard. Problems?

Expand Messages
  • Eddy Anthony
    I ran into several issues trying to replicate the problem. The first one is that when I went to the abilities window after selecting the War Domain the
    Message 1 of 14 , Feb 1, 2005
      I ran into several issues trying to replicate the problem. The first one is
      that when I went to the abilities window after selecting the War Domain the
      Optional Profs button was active and not greyed out but nothing happened
      when I clicked it. The second I noticed while experimenting, when I removed
      Weapon Prof feats the Profs were not removed from the list and remained
      active. I believe these may be related to this tracker:

      [ 1097574 ] Multiple WEAPONBONUS tag problems
      <https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=1097574&group_id=25576&ati
      d=384719>

      Some other issues may have more to do with the implementation of certain
      weapons like the Bastard Sword which have both a Martial and Exotic weapon
      prof. With no profs I get the correct -4 across the board, with the martial
      prof I lose the -4 on the two handed to hit box as expected, with the exotic
      prof I lose the -4 on the One handed to hit box as well. This works as
      expected up until you choose Weapon focus, at that point you have two profs
      to choose from and neither one will grant you the bonus to both, Martial
      grants a +1 to 2-handed to hit and Exotic grant a +1 to 1-handed to hit.

      There's a good chance it meant to work this way, I don't have the books with
      me but I can see a case for having to focus on either the one handed or two
      handed forms.

      The weapon enhancements work fine for me.

      I could not test Divine Focus or Weapon Familiarity, its not in my list.
      Which source and what datasets are you using?
      --
      ~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
      ~ PCGen Content Silverback


      On 2/1/05 8:56 AM, "Patryk Adamski (Ruemere)" <ruemere@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > 5.7.14, Windows XP Pro, Java 5
      >
      > The short version:
      > Attack bonus for a custom made bastard sword, wielded
      > singlehandedly, is wrong.
      >
      > To replicate:
      > Create a human cleric with STR 18, progress to 3rd level.
      > Assign War domain with Deity weapon set to Bastard Sword
      > (alternatively: assign Martial Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword).
      > Assign feat with Weapon Familiarity: Bastard Sword (alternatively
      > assign Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword).
      > Create custom Bastard Sword (masterwork, +1 enhancement).
      > Equip the sword in one hand.
      >
      > The result:
      > Character is deemed nonproficient (i.e. -4) in Bastard Sword.
      > Also, attack bonus calculus is wrong - the weapon is not assigned
      > feat bonuses (i.e. no benefit from Weapon Focus for example).
      >
      > Specifics of my case:
      > My campaign allows for background feats which modify base stats
      > (basically +2 to one stat, with a cost of -2 to another) and grant
      > Weapon Familiarity (Bastard Sword in this case).
      > So, a 7th level cleric with War Domain (Bastard Sword) and appropriate
      > background feat should be able to wield the weapon in one hand
      > (remember the 18 STR) with no penalty.
      >
      > Specific breakdown of attack bonus:
      > +5 - BAB (7th level)
      > +4 - Strength of 18
      > +1 - feat Weapon Focus
      > +1 - feat Divine Focus (+1 to hit with Deity's favoured weapons)
      > +1 - enhancement bonus from weapon
      >
      > Expected total: +12
      >
      > PcGen erroneous total: +6
      >
      >
      > Regards,
      > Ruemere
      > --
      > Patryk Adamski (Ruemere)
      > PcGen Lst Gorilla
      > email: ruemere@...
      > www: www.ruemere.linart.pl
      > www.ruemere.linart.pl/scarredlands
    • Patryk Adamski
      Hello Brass, ... BT Have you been successful in using Java 1.5? A number of posters have had BT their problems corrected by going back to 1.4. ... BT
      Message 2 of 14 , Feb 1, 2005
        Hello Brass,

        Tuesday, February 1, 2005, 5:04:55 PM, you wrote:


        >> 5.7.14, Windows XP Pro, Java 5

        BT> Have you been successful in using Java 1.5? A number of posters have had
        BT> their problems corrected by going back to 1.4.

        >> The short version:
        >> Attack bonus for a custom made bastard sword, wielded
        >> singlehandedly, is wrong.
        >>
        >> To replicate:
        >> Create a human cleric with STR 18, progress to 3rd level.
        >> Assign War domain with Deity weapon set to Bastard Sword
        >> (alternatively: assign Martial Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword).
        >> Assign feat with Weapon Familiarity: Bastard Sword (alternatively
        >> assign Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword).
        >> Create custom Bastard Sword (masterwork, +1 enhancement).
        >> Equip the sword in one hand.

        BT> You're not by any chance using 3.0 files in 3.5 mode are you? If so, check
        BT> the size of the weapon and the setting that tells PCGen which size mode to
        BT> use. In 3.5 mode, the size of the weapon indicates the size of the intended
        BT> wielder, not the size of the weapon itself. So if you have a medium sized
        BT> human and a large sized b-sword, you'll get a non-proficiency penalty.

        BT> If that's the case, you can either change the size of the b-sword in the LST
        BT> files to "M", or change the setting in preferences to use the 3.0 size mods.

        3.5 all the way (including *checked* 3.5 weapon categories in House Rules
        section of settings).
        Java 1.5 does not seem to have caused any problems up. The
        adjustments work up to 5.7.14 just fine.
        Yes, I am using 3.0 files (modded Relics & Rituals), however all
        problems caused by this are resolved manually (i.e. by manual
        editing of R&R).

        Simplified Replication of the bug:

        Create Human, Strength 18, Cleric 3.
        Add feat Martial Weapon Proficiency (Bastard Sword).
        Add feat Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Bastard Sword).
        Go to Inventory, try to buy Bastard Sword: item is red, the
        PROFICIENT field is set to N.

        --
        Patryk Adamski (Ruemere)
        pcGen Lst Gorilla
        Keeper of Scarred Lands Repository
        email>> ruemere@...
        www>> www.ruemere.linart.pl
        www.ruemere.linart.pl/scarredlands/
      • David
        ... What is the exact text of the proficiencies. On the feat tab, right side, mine are: Exotic Weapon Proficiency Sword(Bastard/Exotic) Martial
        Message 3 of 14 , Feb 1, 2005
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: Patryk Adamski
          >
          > Create Human, Strength 18, Cleric 3.
          > Add feat Martial Weapon Proficiency (Bastard Sword).
          > Add feat Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Bastard Sword).
          > Go to Inventory, try to buy Bastard Sword: item is red, the
          > PROFICIENT field is set to N.

          What is the exact text of the proficiencies. On the feat tab, right side, mine are:

          Exotic Weapon Proficiency Sword(Bastard/Exotic)
          Martial Weapon Proriciency Sword(Bastard/Martial)

          I have a human cleric, stats immaterial, level 2 (to get bab +1) and I just added the two B.Sword proficienes and everything is ok
          on the Inventory tab. I can buy a "Bastard sword" and equip it either one handed or two handed.

          -- david
          Papa-DRB
        • Patryk Adamski
          Hello Eddy, Thanks for taking your time to look into this. First of all a brief recap of test environment: 3.5 all the way (including checked 3.5 weapon
          Message 4 of 14 , Feb 1, 2005
            Hello Eddy,

            Thanks for taking your time to look into this.
            First of all a brief recap of test environment:

            3.5 all the way (including checked 3.5 weapon categories in House Rules
            section of settings).
            Java 1.5 does not seem to have caused any problems up. The
            adjustments work up to 5.7.14 just fine.
            Yes, I am using 3.0 files (modded Relics & Rituals), however all
            problems caused by this are resolved manually (i.e. by manual
            editing of R&R).

            Simplified Replication of the bug:

            Create Human, Strength 18, Cleric 3.
            Add feat Martial Weapon Proficiency (Bastard Sword).
            Add feat Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Bastard Sword).
            Go to Inventory, try to buy Bastard Sword: item is red, the
            PROFICIENT field is set to N.

            Now, specifics:

            Tuesday, February 1, 2005, 7:27:50 PM, you wrote:


            EA> I ran into several issues trying to replicate the problem. The first one is
            EA> that when I went to the abilities window after selecting the War Domain the
            EA> Optional Profs button was active and not greyed out but nothing happened
            EA> when I clicked it. The second I noticed while experimenting, when I removed
            EA> Weapon Prof feats the Profs were not removed from the list and remained
            EA> active. I believe these may be related to this tracker:

            EA> [ 1097574 ] Multiple WEAPONBONUS tag problems
            EA> <https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=1097574&group_id=25576&ati
            d=384719>>

            EA> Some other issues may have more to do with the implementation of certain
            EA> weapons like the Bastard Sword which have both a Martial and Exotic weapon
            EA> prof. With no profs I get the correct -4 across the board, with the martial
            EA> prof I lose the -4 on the two handed to hit box as expected, with the exotic
            EA> prof I lose the -4 on the One handed to hit box as well. This works as
            EA> expected up until you choose Weapon focus, at that point you have two profs
            EA> to choose from and neither one will grant you the bonus to both, Martial
            EA> grants a +1 to 2-handed to hit and Exotic grant a +1 to 1-handed to hit.

            EA> There's a good chance it meant to work this way, I don't have the books with
            EA> me but I can see a case for having to focus on either the one handed or two
            EA> handed forms.

            EA> The weapon enhancements work fine for me.

            Yes, I agree that the feats and the way they work may be at fault
            here.

            EA> I could not test Divine Focus or Weapon Familiarity, its not in my list.
            EA> Which source and what datasets are you using?

            [on Weapon Familiarity]
            Weapon Familiarity rules are a part of 3.5 edition of D20 SRD.
            basically, some races are allowed to treat exotic weapons as martial
            rather than exotic, for example, in Dwarf race description you have:
            "Weapon Familiarity: Dwarves may treat dwarven
            waraxes and dwarven urgroshes as martial weapons, rather
            than exotic weapons."

            [on Divine Focus]
            Please, disregard this part.
            I have been coding some .lst files (Relics & Rituals)
            for pcGen in the past up until the moment we have lost contact
            with Sword & Sorcery Studios on later assignments.

            The material I mention has never been officially permissioned and is
            used for personal campaign only (i.e. these files has been created
            by me, for me and my campaign).

            The only reason I mentioned these, is that initally
            either Divine Focus feat or SSS feats I coded somehow related to the
            bug in question.

            Regards,
            Ruemere
            --
            Patryk Adamski (Ruemere)
            pcGen Lst Gorilla
            Keeper of Scarred Lands Repository
            email>> ruemere@...
            www>> www.ruemere.linart.pl
            www.ruemere.linart.pl/scarredlands/
          • Eddy Anthony
            ... Glad to be of service. ... I m unable to replicate this on my end, everything is working as it should. I ve even set the R&R set to show in 35e so I can
            Message 5 of 14 , Feb 1, 2005
              On 2/1/05 3:44 PM, "Patryk Adamski" <ruemere@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hello Eddy,
              >
              > Thanks for taking your time to look into this.

              Glad to be of service.

              > Simplified Replication of the bug:
              >
              > Create Human, Strength 18, Cleric 3.
              > Add feat Martial Weapon Proficiency (Bastard Sword).
              > Add feat Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Bastard Sword).
              > Go to Inventory, try to buy Bastard Sword: item is red, the
              > PROFICIENT field is set to N.

              I'm unable to replicate this on my end, everything is working as it should.
              I've even set the R&R set to show in 35e so I can load it (though its
              otherwise unMODed) and everything still works.

              >> EA> This works as
              >> EA> expected up until you choose Weapon focus, at that point you have two
              >> profs
              >> EA> to choose from and neither one will grant you the bonus to both, Martial
              >> EA> grants a +1 to 2-handed to hit and Exotic grant a +1 to 1-handed to hit.
              >>
              >> EA> There's a good chance it meant to work this way, I don't have the books
              >> with
              >> EA> me but I can see a case for having to focus on either the one handed or
              >> two
              >> EA> handed forms.
              >
              > Yes, I agree that the feats and the way they work may be at fault
              > here.

              We'll need clarification on how this should function, someone on this ist
              may already know.

              > EA> I could not test Divine Focus or Weapon Familiarity, its not in my list.
              > EA> Which source and what datasets are you using?
              >
              > [on Weapon Familiarity]
              > Weapon Familiarity rules are a part of 3.5 edition of D20 SRD.
              > basically, some races are allowed to treat exotic weapons as martial
              > rather than exotic, for example, in Dwarf race description you have:
              > "Weapon Familiarity: Dwarves may treat dwarven
              > waraxes and dwarven urgroshes as martial weapons, rather
              > than exotic weapons."

              Ah that, you fooled me, I was looking for a feat. As far as I can tell
              that's working for the most part. I made a Dwarf Fighter and all the right
              profs were on the list, things got a little wacky when I made a Dwarf Cleric
              though. Since they do not get all Martial weapons I choose the Martial
              Weapon feat and there were three profs in the list for Waraxe (Dwarven), one
              exotic and two martial. Choosing one of the martial profs grants the
              proficiency but in that case does not treat the weapon as Exotic as well,
              choosing exotic doesn't grant the prof at all.

              > [on Divine Focus]
              > Please, disregard this part.

              Don't worry about it, lets just call it goddly concentration and you can
              tell us what tags are used :)

              Unfortunatly we didn't get that far. At this point I'd suggest setting up a
              fresh install with no MODed files and see if you can replicate it in that
              environment.
              --
              ~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
              ~ PCGen Content Silverback
            • Patryk Adamski
              Hello Eddy, Tuesday, February 1, 2005, 10:20:15 PM, you wrote: ... EA Glad to be of service. ... Problem solved. As per your suggestions I have looked into
              Message 6 of 14 , Feb 1, 2005
                Hello Eddy,

                Tuesday, February 1, 2005, 10:20:15 PM, you wrote:


                EA> On 2/1/05 3:44 PM, "Patryk Adamski" <ruemere@...> wrote:
                >>
                >> Hello Eddy,
                >>
                >> Thanks for taking your time to look into this.

                EA> Glad to be of service.

                >> Simplified Replication of the bug:
                >>
                >> Create Human, Strength 18, Cleric 3.
                >> Add feat Martial Weapon Proficiency (Bastard Sword).
                >> Add feat Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Bastard Sword).
                >> Go to Inventory, try to buy Bastard Sword: item is red, the
                >> PROFICIENT field is set to N.

                Problem solved. As per your suggestions I have looked into the
                problem by checking tag syntax consistency.
                It appears that the problem resulted from changing Bastard Sword
                weapon proficiency tag names (Weapon Familiarity was not granted)
                between various versions of RSRD.

                Also, due to aforementioned Weapon Proficiency name disprepancy,
                both feats (i.e. Weapon Focus and Divine Focus) failed. Currently,
                Mathanay Corinth, 7th level cleric of strong convictions is ready to
                do some ass-kicking.

                Things to look into:

                - since I prefer to use None for a deity (solves the problem of
                entering closed content pantheons), War domain is crippled
                (appropriate Martial Weapon Proficiency and Weapon Focus are not
                granted). I solve this manually (by allocating two additional feats
                to clerics, one for MWP, one for WF).
                It may be a good idea to allow for manual choice of such details,
                especially since a few gods boast mroe than one favorite weapon (for
                example: all spears, all swords and so on).

                - Bastard Sword uses two different proficiences:
                Sword (Bastard/Exotic)
                Sword (Bastard/Martial)

                This results in Weapon Focus being granted to one wield type, but
                not both. Some weirdness results ("I can do it better with one hand
                than you with both"). Maybe it would be a good idea to allow for
                partial Weapon Focus matching, like Weapon Focus (Sword(Bastard/*))
                or something.

                Many thanks for steering me the right course to Eddy and David.
                Guys, without you I would not see the forest because of trees.

                Of course, since the Scarred Lands are officially dead now, there may be
                some merit in attempting to contact Sword and Sorcery Studios to
                produce more datasets.
                If so, I'm ready to help.

                --
                Patryk Adamski (Ruemere)
                pcGen Lst Gorilla
                Keeper of Scarred Lands Repository
                email>> ruemere@...
                www>> www.ruemere.linart.pl
                www.ruemere.linart.pl/scarredlands/
              • Brass Tilde
                ... check ... mode to ... Rules ... And you checked to make sure the size of the weapon itself is set to M and not L , right? The next thing I d check is
                Message 7 of 14 , Feb 2, 2005
                  > BT> You're not by any chance using 3.0 files in 3.5 mode are you? If so,
                  check
                  > BT> the size of the weapon and the setting that tells PCGen which size
                  mode to
                  > BT> use.

                  > 3.5 all the way (including *checked* 3.5 weapon categories in House
                  Rules
                  > section of settings).

                  And you checked to make sure the size of the weapon itself is set to "M" and
                  not "L", right?

                  The next thing I'd check is that the proficiency listed on the weapon is the
                  same as the proficiency on the feat. I ran into this with some CMP data
                  sets at one point where the feat proficiency was "Mercurial Greatsword", but
                  the item proficiency was "Greatsword (Mercurial)" (or the other way 'round,
                  I don't remember now). Either way, making them both the same fixed the
                  problem.
                • david allan finch
                  ... I was trying to create a medium sizes character with a Greatsword last week and it seams that the Greatsword has a size of L , if you create a new one
                  Message 8 of 14 , Feb 2, 2005
                    Brass Tilde wrote:
                    > And you checked to make sure the size of the weapon itself is set to "M" and
                    > not "L", right?

                    I was trying to create a medium sizes character with a Greatsword last
                    week and it seams that the Greatsword has a size of "L", if you create a
                    new one with size "M" using the equipment properties dialog then you get
                    1d10 out for a Medium size creature. Is this correct, I thought that the
                    book had all the weapons as "M" and the "M" damage was 2d6.

                    Regards
                    Dave


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • taluroniscandar
                    ... to M and ... create a ... get ... the ... The SRD files have 3.0 style weapon sizes including SIZE:L on the Greatsword. The RSRD files have 3.5 style
                    Message 9 of 14 , Feb 2, 2005
                      --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, david allan finch <david.allan@f...> wrote:
                      > Brass Tilde wrote:
                      > > And you checked to make sure the size of the weapon itself is set
                      to "M" and
                      > > not "L", right?
                      >
                      > I was trying to create a medium sizes character with a Greatsword last
                      > week and it seams that the Greatsword has a size of "L", if you
                      create a
                      > new one with size "M" using the equipment properties dialog then you
                      get
                      > 1d10 out for a Medium size creature. Is this correct, I thought that
                      the
                      > book had all the weapons as "M" and the "M" damage was 2d6.

                      The SRD files have 3.0 style weapon sizes including SIZE:L on the
                      Greatsword.

                      The RSRD files have 3.5 style weapon wield info. There is a SIZE:M tag
                      on the Greatsword to default it for Medium creatures.

                      (visualy verified 5.7.14)

                      What version of pcgen did you say you were using?
                    • david allan finch
                      ... Sorry 5.7.13, I was waiting for RC1 before upgrading again. I will check again after that. Thanks for your help Dave [Non-text portions of this message
                      Message 10 of 14 , Feb 2, 2005
                        taluroniscandar wrote:
                        > The SRD files have 3.0 style weapon sizes including SIZE:L on the
                        > Greatsword.
                        > The RSRD files have 3.5 style weapon wield info. There is a SIZE:M tag
                        > on the Greatsword to default it for Medium creatures.
                        > (visualy verified 5.7.14)
                        > What version of pcgen did you say you were using?

                        Sorry 5.7.13, I was waiting for RC1 before upgrading again. I will check
                        again after that.

                        Thanks for your help
                        Dave



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • TheForken
                        Dear Monkeys I ve just built the last sources available on cvs and I ve found that the - button near each stat row doesn t work any more. I can increase the
                        Message 11 of 14 , Feb 2, 2005
                          Dear Monkeys



                          I've just built the last sources available on cvs and I've found that the
                          "-" button near each stat row doesn't work any more. I can increase the stat
                          via the "+" button but I cannot lower it unless editing the score in the
                          "Score [Editable]" field. Could you please check if I've something strange
                          on my build or it's really broken?



                          Regards



                          TheForken





                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.