Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

RE: [pcgen] Re: [FREQ] Change synergy bonus to be variable based

Expand Messages
  • Paul W. King
    Ummmm...not sure? Because it wasn t so verbose I couldn t follow you? *ducks* ... From: Barak [mailto:barak@voyager.net] Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 5:58
    Message 1 of 20 , Dec 28, 2004
    • 0 Attachment
      Ummmm...not sure? Because it wasn't so verbose I couldn't follow you?
      *ducks*

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Barak [mailto:barak@...]
      Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 5:58 PM
      To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [pcgen] Re: [FREQ] Change synergy bonus to be variable
      based

      Umm, isn't that EXACTLY what I said (with many fewer words)????? :p
    • Darkon
      ... Actually, that is one feat that would give my DM kittens. I have a character that is currently collecting on all possible synergy bonuses to her Diplomacy
      Message 2 of 20 , Dec 29, 2004
      • 0 Attachment
        > > Holy cow! That's a powerful feat!
        >
        > Not really. To even get the synergy bonuses to kick in, you have
        > to expend your skill points in the skills. So, to equal out the
        > bonus equivalent of one of the Alertness clones, you'd need to
        > spend 20 skill points, 5 each in 4 skills that grant synergies.

        Actually, that is one feat that would give my DM kittens. I have a
        character that is currently collecting on all possible synergy
        bonuses to her Diplomacy skill. Currently, she is enjoying a total
        Diplomacy score of 26 with just 8 ranks in the skill. That feat
        would just add insult to injury by bringing it up to a 30. She can
        just take 10 on all checks with that skill.

        Darkon Turas
      • Darkon
        ... Oh, I forgot to ask - what book did that come out of? I d like to check it out myself. Darkon Turas
        Message 3 of 20 , Dec 29, 2004
        • 0 Attachment
          --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Darkon" <darkon_turas@w...> wrote:
          >
          > > > Holy cow! That's a powerful feat!
          > >
          > > Not really. To even get the synergy bonuses to kick in, you have
          > > to expend your skill points in the skills. So, to equal out the
          > > bonus equivalent of one of the Alertness clones, you'd need to
          > > spend 20 skill points, 5 each in 4 skills that grant synergies.
          >
          > Actually, that is one feat that would give my DM kittens. I have a
          > character that is currently collecting on all possible synergy
          > bonuses to her Diplomacy skill. Currently, she is enjoying a total
          > Diplomacy score of 26 with just 8 ranks in the skill. That feat
          > would just add insult to injury by bringing it up to a 30. She can
          > just take 10 on all checks with that skill.
          >
          Oh, I forgot to ask - what book did that come out of? I'd like to
          check it out myself.

          Darkon Turas
        • tir_gwaith
          ... Actually, it is pretty powerful, for those that go into the area. I d like to know the Pre-reqs on it, because I wouldn t want a character getting that
          Message 4 of 20 , Dec 29, 2004
          • 0 Attachment
            > > Not really. To even get the synergy bonuses to kick in, you have
            > > to expend your skill points in the skills. So, to equal out the
            > > bonus equivalent of one of the Alertness clones, you'd need to
            > > spend 20 skill points, 5 each in 4 skills that grant synergies.

            Actually, it is pretty powerful, for those that go into the area.
            I'd like to know the Pre-reqs on it, because I wouldn't want a
            character getting that till at least level 11-13, and having to spend
            some serious work getting to it (other feats, etc). It sounds like a
            weak third tier feat like Whirlwind, but more powerful than a second
            tier.

            > Actually, that is one feat that would give my DM kittens. I have a
            > character that is currently collecting on all possible synergy
            > bonuses to her Diplomacy skill. Currently, she is enjoying a total
            > Diplomacy score of 26 with just 8 ranks in the skill. That feat
            > would just add insult to injury by bringing it up to a 30. She can
            > just take 10 on all checks with that skill.

            Ok, that's a bit twinky, but I've seen worse (just look into
            Dawnforge if you want to see the definition of twinky.) I thought
            some of the Diplomacy "Synergies" were only in certain situations, so
            most of the time they won't stack. I would like to know what
            weaknesses the character has. If he's poured his points into the
            charisma skills, did he skimp on spot and listen, or spellcaster
            skills? And it sounds like he's poured a few feats into the skills,
            so he hasn't spent those on combat feats...

            FYI: Most diplomacy (all negotiations) checks are opposed rolls, so
            you can't take 10...

            Tir Gwaith
            LST Chimp
          • Kevin Brown
            ... True, but you can always take a 1 since on a skill roll since that isn t an automatic failure. Most people would be hard pressed to get close to 30 on any
            Message 5 of 20 , Dec 30, 2004
            • 0 Attachment
              >>>Not really. To even get the synergy bonuses to kick in, you have
              >>>to expend your skill points in the skills. So, to equal out the
              >>>bonus equivalent of one of the Alertness clones, you'd need to
              >>>spend 20 skill points, 5 each in 4 skills that grant synergies.
              >
              >
              > Actually, it is pretty powerful, for those that go into the area.
              > I'd like to know the Pre-reqs on it, because I wouldn't want a
              > character getting that till at least level 11-13, and having to spend
              > some serious work getting to it (other feats, etc). It sounds like a
              > weak third tier feat like Whirlwind, but more powerful than a second
              > tier.
              >
              >
              >>Actually, that is one feat that would give my DM kittens. I have a
              >>character that is currently collecting on all possible synergy
              >>bonuses to her Diplomacy skill. Currently, she is enjoying a total
              >>Diplomacy score of 26 with just 8 ranks in the skill. That feat
              >>would just add insult to injury by bringing it up to a 30. She can
              >>just take 10 on all checks with that skill.
              >
              >
              > Ok, that's a bit twinky, but I've seen worse (just look into
              > Dawnforge if you want to see the definition of twinky.) I thought
              > some of the Diplomacy "Synergies" were only in certain situations, so
              > most of the time they won't stack. I would like to know what
              > weaknesses the character has. If he's poured his points into the
              > charisma skills, did he skimp on spot and listen, or spellcaster
              > skills? And it sounds like he's poured a few feats into the skills,
              > so he hasn't spent those on combat feats...
              >
              > FYI: Most diplomacy (all negotiations) checks are opposed rolls, so
              > you can't take 10...

              True, but you can always take a 1 since on a skill roll since that isn't an
              automatic failure. Most people would be hard pressed to get close to 30 on any
              check.

              Let's see...
              +2 Bonus from Bluff
              +2 Bonus from Knowledge (nobility and royalty)
              +2 Bonus from Sense Motive
              +2 for being a Half-Elf
              +2 for the Negotiator feat
              So far none are conditional... they all are always on.
              +3 from Skill Focus (can only be taken once to help)...
              +8 for the Ranks of Diplomacy
              +5 for a 20 Charisma

              Total Cost to get that:
              Level 5
              23 Skill Points
              2 Feats
              Race
              and a high charisma....
            • thoron-tir-gwaith@lycos.com
              Ah, 3.5 changes them from conditional to across the board. A level 5 character has 2 feats, so he s blown both of them for the high diplomacy check. Sounds
              Message 6 of 20 , Dec 30, 2004
              • 0 Attachment
                Ah, 3.5 changes them from conditional to across the board.

                A level 5 character has 2 feats, so he's blown both of them for the
                high diplomacy check. Sounds fair. And this feat would grant him
                3 more. You forgot the biggest cost: taking a class with all of those as class skills. Plus, with a 20 charisma at level 5 (only one stat boost at that point), he's spent equipment moneys on bumping his CHA which helps with both spellcasting and diplomacy skills. Well, that or he's burnning spells for that.

                So he's the face-man, and has concentrated on that. I'm assuming a
                Bard class, because otherwise those skills are not all class skills, and getting the 5 ranks at level 5 can only be because they are class skills. It would take until level 8 to get that cross class (and a lot more skill points). That or multi-classing, which will bring him down more in combat, etc.

                Bards are Geared for that. They aren't strong in combat, and their skill list is wide (20+, not counting Knowledge, Craft, or Profession) with 6+Int. So they can excell in diplomacy, esp. with the prime stat of CHA. Not twinky at all, especially when you consider that he's blown both his feats for that excell, along with a good number of skill points. He's weak everywhere else. His highest spells at 5th level are 3 known 2nd level spells, but can cast 2 per day (and they are from the Bard list, which while diverse, doesn't go deep). In my group, we call that kind of character a "One-Hit-Wonder" as in they can do one thing greatly, but that's basically it.

                Tir Gwaith
                LST Chimp

                > Let's see...
                > +2 Bonus from Bluff
                > +2 Bonus from Knowledge (nobility and royalty)
                > +2 Bonus from Sense Motive
                > +2 for being a Half-Elf
                > +2 for the Negotiator feat
                > So far none are conditional... they all are always on.
                > +3 from Skill Focus (can only be taken once to help)...
                > +8 for the Ranks of Diplomacy
                > +5 for a 20 Charisma
                >
                > Total Cost to get that:
                > Level 5
                > 23 Skill Points
                > 2 Feats
                > Race
                > and a high charisma....
              • Darkon
                ... Actually, Earin is a 9th level Paladin / 8th level Enchantress (Female Wizard: Enchanter). Her perception skills have 0 ranks in them so she hardly sees
                Message 7 of 20 , Dec 30, 2004
                • 0 Attachment
                  > > > Not really. To even get the synergy bonuses to kick in, you
                  > > > have to expend your skill points in the skills. So, to equal
                  > > > out the bonus equivalent of one of the Alertness clones, you'd
                  > > > need to spend 20 skill points, 5 each in 4 skills that grant
                  > > > synergies.
                  >
                  > Actually, it is pretty powerful, for those that go into the area.
                  > I'd like to know the Pre-reqs on it, because I wouldn't want a
                  > character getting that till at least level 11-13, and having to
                  > spend some serious work getting to it (other feats, etc). It
                  > sounds like a weak third tier feat like Whirlwind, but more
                  > powerful than a second tier.
                  >
                  > > Actually, that is one feat that would give my DM kittens. I have
                  > > a character that is currently collecting on all possible synergy
                  > > bonuses to her Diplomacy skill. Currently, she is enjoying a
                  > > total Diplomacy score of 26 with just 8 ranks in the skill. That
                  > > feat would just add insult to injury by bringing it up to a 30.
                  > > She can just take 10 on all checks with that skill.
                  >
                  > Ok, that's a bit twinky, but I've seen worse (just look into
                  > Dawnforge if you want to see the definition of twinky.) I thought
                  > some of the Diplomacy "Synergies" were only in certain situations,
                  > so most of the time they won't stack. I would like to know what
                  > weaknesses the character has. If he's poured his points into the
                  > charisma skills, did he skimp on spot and listen, or spellcaster
                  > skills? And it sounds like he's poured a few feats into the
                  > skills, so he hasn't spent those on combat feats...

                  Actually, Earin is a 9th level Paladin / 8th level Enchantress
                  (Female Wizard: Enchanter). Her perception skills have 0 ranks in
                  them so she hardly sees anything. You can find her character sheet
                  on my website at http://darkon_turas.home.att.net in the "roster"
                  area.

                  > FYI: Most diplomacy (all negotiations) checks are opposed rolls,
                  > so you can't take 10...

                  Good point. She has 8 ranks in Diplomacy and she collects on the
                  following modifiers:
                  1) Bluff Synergy: +2 to all Diplomacy checks
                  2) Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty) Synergy: +2 to all Diplomacy
                  checks
                  3) Sense Motive Synergy: +2 to all Diplomacy checks
                  4) Enhanced Charisma Bonus: +7 to all CHA skills
                  5) Magic Item Bonus: +5 to all Bluff, Diplomacy, or Gather Info used
                  against anyone sexually attracted to her.
                  6) Mark of the Master (True Beauty) Feat: Any creature with an INT
                  of at least 3 is considered sexually attracted to her.

                  She a pretty fun character to play. She's a Paladin that has a
                  phobia against being used. The DM introduced the comcept of Destiny
                  to her and she flipped out (interpreting Destiny as the ultimate
                  form of being used). She decided to thwart destiny by chenging
                  carreers anf moving from Greyhawk to the Forgotten Realms. Her
                  carreer choice was based on childhood stories of the seductive
                  enchentresses (which always impressed her). It's a challenge to
                  maintain a balance between Paladin and Enchentress professions.
                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.