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RE: [pcgen] Mongoose Publishing: Babylon 5

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  • Lizard
    On 08:57 PM 11/1/2004, Nigel Bennington said.... ... Two words: Berne Convention. A whole lot more words: Even if use is legal elsewhere, international law
    Message 1 of 30 , Nov 1, 2004
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      On 08:57 PM 11/1/2004, Nigel Bennington said....

      >You should be aware that "Fair Use" is an American concept that most of the
      >rest of the world does not share, since PCGEN is an internationally
      >distributed product, we need to abide by international copyright law, not
      >American, so "Fair Use" does not come into play.

      Two words: Berne Convention.

      A whole lot more words: Even if use is legal elsewhere, international law
      allows for cases to be brought where it is NOT, so, if Mongoose wanted to
      sue, they could do so in the UK or in the US, wherever it was more viable
      for them.
    • Nigel Bennington
      You should be aware that Fair Use is an American concept that most of the rest of the world does not share, since PCGEN is an internationally distributed
      Message 2 of 30 , Nov 1, 2004
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        You should be aware that "Fair Use" is an American concept that most of the
        rest of the world does not share, since PCGEN is an internationally
        distributed product, we need to abide by international copyright law, not
        American, so "Fair Use" does not come into play.

        -----Original Message-----
        From: David Finch [mailto:david.finch@...]
        Sent: 01 November 2004 10:28
        To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [pcgen] Mongoose Publishing: Babylon 5


        Derek J. Balling wrote:
        > Person1: Gosh I could really use a hitman.
        > Person2: Hey, I know this friend of mine, let me introduce you...
        > Doesn't really hold up as a defense in court, usually. ;-)
        > just thinking out loud, though, not (at all) comparing "copyright
        > infraction" to "hiring a hitman" on the badness scale... ;-)

        I am sitting here wondering what I should say ... it seam that I have been
        hung drawn and quatered, and it is not even the 5th of November yet.

        Basically I did ask permission before I started. And Mongoose said yes but
        they did not want them distrubuted in PCgen. But they did say that B5
        players can use them via the B5 emaillist on Yahoo Groups. I did not ask
        about the WB stuff as Mongoose did not want them distrubuted directly but
        in a fan way. That was one year ago, things change, lets see what they say
        now.

        So if you want a copy join the B5 maillist and ask me there.

        Dave

        NB - I think that this group has become very uptight about copyright,
        almost like a child that has been beaten to often, it flinches before being
        hit. IANAL, there is such a thing as "fair use", use of data to create a
        character is fair use from a RPG. If the licence from WB to Mongoose
        excludes use of their IP in computers games then I could see there been a
        conflict but other wise I can't see why they would object, but it is always
        nice to ask.



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




        PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
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      • David Finch
        ... In 1605, Guy Fawkes and a group of conspirators attempted to blow up the Houses of Parliament (*1). Before they were able to carry out their plan they
        Message 3 of 30 , Nov 2, 2004
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          Michael R. Beaver wrote:
          > Guy Faulks day
          >> Jonathan M. Thompson [mailto:jthompson@...] wrote:
          >> What happens 5 November?
          >>> David Finch [mailto:david.finch@...] wrote:
          >>> /*Remember*, *Remember*, The Fifth of November!/

          "In 1605, Guy Fawkes and a group of conspirators attempted to blow up the
          Houses of Parliament (*1). Before they were able to carry out their plan
          they were caught, tortured and executed. Every year since then we have
          traditionally celebrated his failure by letting off fireworks and burning
          an effigy of 'Guy'"

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Fawkes_Night

          It is now just an excuse now for an outside party with Fireworks and a
          large bonfire ;)

          (*1) Note that this was at the State Opening; hence they would have killed
          the Executive, Legistive, Judicial and Military 'Branches' of the English
          Government. Their intension was to destroy the top of the English political
          structure to allow a Catholic take over. It failed, some think that it was
          in fact a setup to catch the insurgents.



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • thoron-tir-gwaith@lycos.com
          Thanks for the history lesson, David. This Texan hasn t done near enough study on english government... I normally stop paying attention just after Henry
          Message 4 of 30 , Nov 2, 2004
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            Thanks for the history lesson, David. This Texan hasn't done near enough study on english government... I normally stop paying attention just after Henry VIII. I go into the arts (the poets and Shakespeare) but not the politics until just before 1776 (and even then just enough to know the king's name was George), and really pay attention again just prior to 1900, with the european naval arms race, and foundation of characters involved in and formation events leading up to WW1.

            But that's just me. . .

            Tir Gwaith
            LST Chimp
          • Steven Gilroy
            This is also one of the roots of American Trick or Treat. Back in the olden days people used to ask for a penny for the Guy . This was a monetary donation
            Message 5 of 30 , Nov 2, 2004
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              This is also one of the roots of American Trick or Treat. Back in the
              olden days people used to ask for "a penny for the Guy". This was a
              monetary donation to help create the effigy of Guy that would be burned
              on Guy Fawkes Night. Back in the 1800's and 1900's the church even
              tried to combine Halloween with Guy Fawkes Night because they viewed
              Halloween as to Pagan. That is one of the reasons that people actually
              dress up for Guy Fawkes Night too.
              (I'm not british but I did spend the night at a Holiday Inn
              Express....err...I mean....I saw a special on the History Channel Sunday
              evening)

              David Finch wrote:

              >Michael R. Beaver wrote:
              >
              >
              >>Guy Faulks day
              >>
              >>
              >>>Jonathan M. Thompson [mailto:jthompson@...] wrote:
              >>>What happens 5 November?
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>>David Finch [mailto:david.finch@...] wrote:
              >>>>/*Remember*, *Remember*, The Fifth of November!/
              >>>>
              >>>>
              >
              >"In 1605, Guy Fawkes and a group of conspirators attempted to blow up the
              >Houses of Parliament (*1). Before they were able to carry out their plan
              >they were caught, tortured and executed. Every year since then we have
              >traditionally celebrated his failure by letting off fireworks and burning
              >an effigy of 'Guy'"
              >
              >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Fawkes_Night
              >
              >It is now just an excuse now for an outside party with Fireworks and a
              >large bonfire ;)
              >
              >(*1) Note that this was at the State Opening; hence they would have killed
              >the Executive, Legistive, Judicial and Military 'Branches' of the English
              >Government. Their intension was to destroy the top of the English political
              >structure to allow a Catholic take over. It failed, some think that it was
              >in fact a setup to catch the insurgents.
              >
              >
              >
              --

              Steven Gilroy
              PCGen OS Lemur
              "In a world without fences, who needs GATES?"



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Michael R. Beaver
              Penny for the Guy? ________________________________ From: David Finch [mailto:david.finch@ipasystems.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 3:44 AM To:
              Message 6 of 30 , Nov 2, 2004
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                Penny for the Guy?

                ________________________________

                From: David Finch [mailto:david.finch@...]
                Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 3:44 AM
                To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Bonfire Night was [Re: [pcgen] Mongoose Publishing: Babylon 5]


                Michael R. Beaver wrote:
                > Guy Faulks day
                >> Jonathan M. Thompson [mailto:jthompson@...] wrote:
                >> What happens 5 November?
                >>> David Finch [mailto:david.finch@...] wrote:
                >>> /*Remember*, *Remember*, The Fifth of November!/

                "In 1605, Guy Fawkes and a group of conspirators attempted to blow up
                the
                Houses of Parliament (*1). Before they were able to carry out their plan

                they were caught, tortured and executed. Every year since then we have
                traditionally celebrated his failure by letting off fireworks and
                burning
                an effigy of 'Guy'"

                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Fawkes_Night

                It is now just an excuse now for an outside party with Fireworks and a
                large bonfire ;)

                (*1) Note that this was at the State Opening; hence they would have
                killed
                the Executive, Legistive, Judicial and Military 'Branches' of the
                English
                Government. Their intension was to destroy the top of the English
                political
                structure to allow a Catholic take over. It failed, some think that it
                was
                in fact a setup to catch the insurgents.



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                PCGen's alpha build: http://www.legolas.org/pcgen/autobuilds
                PCGen's FAQ:
                http://www.evilsoft.org/pcgen/docs/



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                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Mike Mitchell
                On Tue, 2 Nov 2004 06:13:10 -0800, Michael R. Beaver ... Children make a mannequin figure, trundle it about, begging small change off people, then go and buy
                Message 7 of 30 , Nov 2, 2004
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                  On Tue, 2 Nov 2004 06:13:10 -0800, Michael R. Beaver
                  <michael@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Penny for the Guy?

                  Children make a mannequin figure, trundle it about, begging small
                  change off people, then go and buy small explosives to play with.
                  Originally innocent fun, until the little gits started hurting
                  themselves with the fireworks, or putting them through people's doors
                  etc.

                  The "Guy" would be burnt on a bonfire during the fireworks - to
                  recreate the execution of the "heretic" Guy Fawkes after his failed
                  attempt to blow up the Houses of Parliament.

                  --
                  "Without change, something sleeps inside us, and seldom awakens. The
                  sleeper must awaken."
                • Ed Holley
                  It is also a concept required for software under Russian law. _____ From: Nigel Bennington [mailto:nigel@onlineguild.com] Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 20:57
                  Message 8 of 30 , Nov 2, 2004
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                    It is also a concept required for software under Russian law.



                    _____

                    From: Nigel Bennington [mailto:nigel@...]
                    Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 20:57
                    To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: RE: [pcgen] Mongoose Publishing: Babylon 5



                    You should be aware that "Fair Use" is an American concept that most of the
                    rest of the world does not share, since PCGEN is an internationally
                    distributed product, we need to abide by international copyright law, not
                    American, so "Fair Use" does not come into play.

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: David Finch [mailto:david.finch@...]
                    Sent: 01 November 2004 10:28
                    To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [pcgen] Mongoose Publishing: Babylon 5


                    Derek J. Balling wrote:
                    > Person1: Gosh I could really use a hitman.
                    > Person2: Hey, I know this friend of mine, let me introduce you...
                    > Doesn't really hold up as a defense in court, usually. ;-)
                    > just thinking out loud, though, not (at all) comparing "copyright
                    > infraction" to "hiring a hitman" on the badness scale... ;-)

                    I am sitting here wondering what I should say ... it seam that I have been
                    hung drawn and quatered, and it is not even the 5th of November yet.

                    Basically I did ask permission before I started. And Mongoose said yes but
                    they did not want them distrubuted in PCgen. But they did say that B5
                    players can use them via the B5 emaillist on Yahoo Groups. I did not ask
                    about the WB stuff as Mongoose did not want them distrubuted directly but
                    in a fan way. That was one year ago, things change, lets see what they say
                    now.

                    So if you want a copy join the B5 maillist and ask me there.

                    Dave

                    NB - I think that this group has become very uptight about copyright,
                    almost like a child that has been beaten to often, it flinches before being
                    hit. IANAL, there is such a thing as "fair use", use of data to create a
                    character is fair use from a RPG. If the licence from WB to Mongoose
                    excludes use of their IP in computers games then I could see there been a
                    conflict but other wise I can't see why they would object, but it is always
                    nice to ask.





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • David Finch
                    ... http://www.cerebalaw.com/berne.htm *The Berne Convention on Literary and Artistic Works* /Artical 10/ (1) It shall be permissible to make quotations from
                    Message 9 of 30 , Nov 2, 2004
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                      Nigel Bennington wrote:
                      > You should be aware that "Fair Use" is an American concept that most of the
                      > rest of the world does not share, since PCGEN is an internationally
                      > distributed product, we need to abide by international copyright law, not
                      > American, so "Fair Use" does not come into play.

                      http://www.cerebalaw.com/berne.htm
                      *The Berne Convention on Literary and Artistic Works*
                      /Artical 10/

                      "(1) It shall be permissible to make quotations from a work which has
                      already been lawfully made available to the public, provided that their
                      making is compatible with /fair practice/, and their extent does not exceed
                      that justified by the purpose, including quotations from newspaper articles
                      and periodicals in the form of press summaries."

                      "Fair Use" (US) = "Fair Practice", the definitions of what is "Fair
                      Practice" change from county to county but not the concept itself. This
                      concept has been stretch in many places to include for example 'time
                      shifted' copies of broadcasted copyright information.

                      United States = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use
                      The Commonwealth = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_dealing
                      ...

                      I agree that I was not being specific enough when I used "Fair Use" and had
                      assumed that this was the generic term.

                      Dave



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Michael R. Beaver
                      OK all. This thread is DONE. If you want to discuss it further take it over to: ogf-d20-l-bounces@opengamingfoundation.org This is a mailing list for
                      Message 10 of 30 , Nov 2, 2004
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                        OK all. This thread is DONE. If you want to discuss it further take
                        it over to: "ogf-d20-l-bounces@..." This is a
                        mailing list for pcgen.....


                        Beaver
                        PCGen BoD - Chair/PL

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: David Finch [mailto:david.finch@...]
                        Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 7:21 AM
                        To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [pcgen] Mongoose Publishing: Babylon 5


                        Nigel Bennington wrote:
                        > You should be aware that "Fair Use" is an American concept that most
                        > of the rest of the world does not share, since PCGEN is an
                        > internationally distributed product, we need to abide by international

                        > copyright law, not American, so "Fair Use" does not come into play.

                        http://www.cerebalaw.com/berne.htm
                        *The Berne Convention on Literary and Artistic Works* /Artical 10/

                        "(1) It shall be permissible to make quotations from a work which has
                        already been lawfully made available to the public, provided that their
                        making is compatible with /fair practice/, and their extent does not
                        exceed that justified by the purpose, including quotations from
                        newspaper articles and periodicals in the form of press summaries."

                        "Fair Use" (US) = "Fair Practice", the definitions of what is "Fair
                        Practice" change from county to county but not the concept itself. This
                        concept has been stretch in many places to include for example 'time
                        shifted' copies of broadcasted copyright information.

                        United States = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use
                        The Commonwealth = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_dealing
                        ...

                        I agree that I was not being specific enough when I used "Fair Use" and
                        had assumed that this was the generic term.

                        Dave



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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