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RE: [pcgen] Mongoose Publishing: Babylon 5

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  • Chris McLaughlin
    Hi Paul, I have sent an email to Mongoose Publishing asking for permission to include Babylon 5 in PCGen and also asked about the IP aspect regarding Warner
    Message 1 of 30 , Oct 31, 2004
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      Hi Paul,

      I have sent an email to Mongoose Publishing asking for permission to include
      Babylon 5 in PCGen and also asked about the IP aspect regarding Warner
      Brothers.



      I'll keep you up to date with developments as they happen.



      Regards,

      Chris



      _____

      From: Paul W. King [mailto:paulking.rhochi@...]
      Sent: Sunday, 31 October 2004 11:00 p.m.
      To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [pcgen] Mongoose Publishing: Babylon 5



      That source is a licensed work. To my knowledge, no one has approached both
      Mongoose (the publisher) and Warner Brothers (the IP owner) to see if we
      have permission to create/distribute datasets based on the Babylon 5 line.

      Paul W. King
      TM SB, OGL/PL Chimp, Data Tamarin, BoD

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Chris McLaughlin [mailto:kilthar@...]
      Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2004 4:50 AM
      To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [pcgen] Mongoose Publishing: Babylon 5

      Has anyone tried/started developing LST files for Mongoose Publishing's
      Babylon 5 RPG?




      PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
      PCGen's alpha build: http://www.legolas.org/pcgen/autobuilds
      PCGen's FAQ:
      http://www.evilsoft.org/pcgen/docs/






      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Michael R. Beaver
      Chris, Contact me off list about this source. Beaver PCGen BoD - Chair/PL ( michael at tripleknot.com) ________________________________ From: Chris McLaughlin
      Message 2 of 30 , Oct 31, 2004
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        Chris,

        Contact me off list about this source.

        Beaver
        PCGen BoD - Chair/PL
        ( michael at tripleknot.com)

        ________________________________

        From: Chris McLaughlin [mailto:kilthar@...]
        Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2004 9:57 PM
        To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [pcgen] Mongoose Publishing: Babylon 5


        Hi Paul,

        I have sent an email to Mongoose Publishing asking for permission to
        include
        Babylon 5 in PCGen and also asked about the IP aspect regarding Warner
        Brothers.



        I'll keep you up to date with developments as they happen.



        Regards,

        Chris



        _____

        From: Paul W. King [mailto:paulking.rhochi@...]
        Sent: Sunday, 31 October 2004 11:00 p.m.
        To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [pcgen] Mongoose Publishing: Babylon 5



        That source is a licensed work. To my knowledge, no one has approached
        both
        Mongoose (the publisher) and Warner Brothers (the IP owner) to see if we
        have permission to create/distribute datasets based on the Babylon 5
        line.

        Paul W. King
        TM SB, OGL/PL Chimp, Data Tamarin, BoD

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Chris McLaughlin [mailto:kilthar@...]
        Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2004 4:50 AM
        To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [pcgen] Mongoose Publishing: Babylon 5

        Has anyone tried/started developing LST files for Mongoose Publishing's
        Babylon 5 RPG?




        PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
        PCGen's alpha build: http://www.legolas.org/pcgen/autobuilds
        PCGen's FAQ:
        http://www.evilsoft.org/pcgen/docs/






        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



        PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
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        http://www.evilsoft.org/pcgen/docs/



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      • David Finch
        ... I am sitting here wondering what I should say ... it seam that I have been hung drawn and quatered, and it is not even the 5th of November yet. Basically I
        Message 3 of 30 , Nov 1, 2004
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          Derek J. Balling wrote:
          > Person1: Gosh I could really use a hitman.
          > Person2: Hey, I know this friend of mine, let me introduce you...
          > Doesn't really hold up as a defense in court, usually. ;-)
          > just thinking out loud, though, not (at all) comparing "copyright
          > infraction" to "hiring a hitman" on the badness scale... ;-)

          I am sitting here wondering what I should say ... it seam that I have been
          hung drawn and quatered, and it is not even the 5th of November yet.

          Basically I did ask permission before I started. And Mongoose said yes but
          they did not want them distrubuted in PCgen. But they did say that B5
          players can use them via the B5 emaillist on Yahoo Groups. I did not ask
          about the WB stuff as Mongoose did not want them distrubuted directly but
          in a fan way. That was one year ago, things change, lets see what they say now.

          So if you want a copy join the B5 maillist and ask me there.

          Dave

          NB - I think that this group has become very uptight about copyright,
          almost like a child that has been beaten to often, it flinches before being
          hit. IANAL, there is such a thing as "fair use", use of data to create a
          character is fair use from a RPG. If the licence from WB to Mongoose
          excludes use of their IP in computers games then I could see there been a
          conflict but other wise I can't see why they would object, but it is always
          nice to ask.



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • notyetmousse24@aol.com
          groups sez... Person1: Gosh I could really use a hitman. Person2: Hey, I know this friend of mine, let me introduce you... Doesn t really hold up as a defense
          Message 4 of 30 , Nov 1, 2004
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            groups sez...

            'Person1: Gosh I could really use a hitman.
            Person2: Hey, I know this friend of mine, let me introduce you...

            Doesn't really hold up as a defense in court, usually.'

            Sure it does! I mean why would reffering your friend to a dealer in
            obviously illegal services be considered bad?

            'just thinking out loud, though, not (at all) comparing "copyright
            infraction" to "hiring a hitman" on the badness scale...'

            You might not, but I'm sure the MPAA and RIAA disagree with you.

            NotMousse
            TM, QA Tamarin, Made Emily Smirle laugh

            I mean, if I can't even get a discount out of someone else's misfortune,
            what's the point?
            -MisterTambo, founding member of the League of Unemployed Gentlemen


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Michael R. Beaver
            OK all. So here is the thing. Yes we are twitchy about distributing copyrighted material. I have been talking with Mongoose about this since GAMA. They are
            Message 5 of 30 , Nov 1, 2004
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              OK all. So here is the thing. Yes we are twitchy about distributing
              copyrighted material. I have been talking with Mongoose about this
              since GAMA. They are interested and pursuing this with WB to see if
              they will let us produce/distribute. I usually do not post information
              like this until I have a more solid answer beyond "I am talkign to the
              them about it." Part of the issue is that the publishers needed to be
              fully educated on who PCGen is and what exactly we do. Once the
              understanding of Open SOurce and how it relates to their PI was
              understood it became alot easier to get permissions for book/sources.
              One of the biggest challenges is getting people to code sources that
              publishers want to see.

              Now the twitch is distribution. We CANNOT publically distribute files
              via the site or the zip files that we do not have perms for. So if
              people would like to make a set for B5 that I can show to Mongoose we
              can do that. However without an email from them giving us permision we
              cannot distribute it or host it.

              Beaver
              PCGen BoD - Chair/PL

              ________________________________

              From: David Finch [mailto:david.finch@...]
              Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 2:28 AM
              To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [pcgen] Mongoose Publishing: Babylon 5


              Derek J. Balling wrote:
              > Person1: Gosh I could really use a hitman.
              > Person2: Hey, I know this friend of mine, let me introduce you...
              > Doesn't really hold up as a defense in court, usually. ;-)
              > just thinking out loud, though, not (at all) comparing "copyright
              > infraction" to "hiring a hitman" on the badness scale... ;-)

              I am sitting here wondering what I should say ... it seam that I have
              been
              hung drawn and quatered, and it is not even the 5th of November yet.

              Basically I did ask permission before I started. And Mongoose said yes
              but
              they did not want them distrubuted in PCgen. But they did say that B5
              players can use them via the B5 emaillist on Yahoo Groups. I did not ask

              about the WB stuff as Mongoose did not want them distrubuted directly
              but
              in a fan way. That was one year ago, things change, lets see what they
              say now.

              So if you want a copy join the B5 maillist and ask me there.

              Dave

              NB - I think that this group has become very uptight about copyright,
              almost like a child that has been beaten to often, it flinches before
              being
              hit. IANAL, there is such a thing as "fair use", use of data to create a

              character is fair use from a RPG. If the licence from WB to Mongoose
              excludes use of their IP in computers games then I could see there been
              a
              conflict but other wise I can't see why they would object, but it is
              always
              nice to ask.



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



              PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
              PCGen's alpha build: http://www.legolas.org/pcgen/autobuilds
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            • Michael R. Beaver
              Who refered to you as the guy ? ________________________________ From: David Finch [mailto:david.finch@ipasystems.co.uk] Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 2:28
              Message 6 of 30 , Nov 1, 2004
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                Who refered to you as "the guy"?

                ________________________________

                From: David Finch [mailto:david.finch@...]
                Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 2:28 AM
                To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [pcgen] Mongoose Publishing: Babylon 5


                Derek J. Balling wrote:
                > Person1: Gosh I could really use a hitman.
                > Person2: Hey, I know this friend of mine, let me introduce you...
                > Doesn't really hold up as a defense in court, usually. ;-)
                > just thinking out loud, though, not (at all) comparing "copyright
                > infraction" to "hiring a hitman" on the badness scale... ;-)

                I am sitting here wondering what I should say ... it seam that I have
                been
                hung drawn and quatered, and it is not even the 5th of November yet.

                Basically I did ask permission before I started. And Mongoose said yes
                but
                they did not want them distrubuted in PCgen. But they did say that B5
                players can use them via the B5 emaillist on Yahoo Groups. I did not ask

                about the WB stuff as Mongoose did not want them distrubuted directly
                but
                in a fan way. That was one year ago, things change, lets see what they
                say now.

                So if you want a copy join the B5 maillist and ask me there.

                Dave

                NB - I think that this group has become very uptight about copyright,
                almost like a child that has been beaten to often, it flinches before
                being
                hit. IANAL, there is such a thing as "fair use", use of data to create a

                character is fair use from a RPG. If the licence from WB to Mongoose
                excludes use of their IP in computers games then I could see there been
                a
                conflict but other wise I can't see why they would object, but it is
                always
                nice to ask.



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                PCGen's alpha build: http://www.legolas.org/pcgen/autobuilds
                PCGen's FAQ:
                http://www.evilsoft.org/pcgen/docs/



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              • notyetmousse24@aol.com
                jthompson sez... I do know of someone that has written a lst file for Babylon 5, as I have a copy for my home games (been testing it for him). I can contact
                Message 7 of 30 , Nov 1, 2004
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                  jthompson sez...

                  'I do know of someone that has written a lst file for Babylon 5, as I have a
                  copy for my home games (been testing it for him). I can contact him and see if
                  I can give out his email address if you contact me in private.'

                  In general it is considered smarter to offer such illegal help out of the
                  earshot (or eyeshot as the case may be) of a large group of witnesses and/or
                  where a standing record is kept.

                  NotMousse
                  TM, QA Tamarin, Made Emily Smirle laugh

                  I mean, if I can't even get a discount out of someone else's misfortune,
                  what's the point?
                  -MisterTambo, founding member of the League of Unemployed Gentlemen


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • David Finch
                  ... Well I don t know may be Jonathan got a copy of B5 LST files from you, I kind of assume I had made them, but my memory can be flawed ;) Dave [Non-text
                  Message 8 of 30 , Nov 1, 2004
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                    Michael R. Beaver wrote:
                    > Who refered to you as "the guy"?

                    Well I don't know may be Jonathan got a copy of B5 LST files from you, I
                    kind of assume I had made them, but my memory can be flawed ;)

                    Dave



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • David Finch
                    ... And it is resnoble to me, just why does it have to become an inquisition everytime some on mension it? ... As expected, B5 is well supported having LST
                    Message 9 of 30 , Nov 1, 2004
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                      Michael R. Beaver wrote:
                      > OK all. So here is the thing. Yes we are twitchy about distributing
                      > copyrighted material.

                      And it is resnoble to me, just why does it have to become an inquisition
                      everytime some on mension it?

                      > I have been talking with Mongoose about this
                      > since GAMA. They are interested and pursuing this with WB to see if
                      > they will let us produce/distribute. I usually do not post information
                      > like this until I have a more solid answer beyond "I am talkign to the
                      > them about it." Part of the issue is that the publishers needed to be
                      > fully educated on who PCGen is and what exactly we do. Once the
                      > understanding of Open SOurce and how it relates to their PI was
                      > understood it became alot easier to get permissions for book/sources.
                      > One of the biggest challenges is getting people to code sources that
                      > publishers want to see.

                      As expected, B5 is well supported having LST files would help them sell
                      more books.

                      > Now the twitch is distribution. We CANNOT publically distribute files
                      > via the site or the zip files that we do not have perms for. So if
                      > people would like to make a set for B5 that I can show to Mongoose we
                      > can do that. However without an email from them giving us permision we
                      > cannot distribute it or host it.

                      And this is why I have not up to this point even mension it here, I think I
                      asked for help in the LSThelp files using 'codes' as is the normal way.
                      Even on the B5 list it is not avaiable to the public to download, only to
                      people that directly ask, which is kind of what MP asked me to do (BTW it
                      was over a year ago so I doubt that anyone would now remeber there).

                      I have been a bit busy on the personal life front so have not been working
                      very hard on the B5 LST files, if this got offical permission from MP you
                      can assume that our work will become avaiable and I would help out.

                      Dave



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Michael R. Beaver
                      Heh. I meant the Nov. 5th reference. ... From: David Finch [mailto:david.finch@ipasystems.co.uk] Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 5:49 AM To:
                      Message 10 of 30 , Nov 1, 2004
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                        Heh. I meant the Nov. 5th reference.

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: David Finch [mailto:david.finch@...]
                        Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 5:49 AM
                        To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [pcgen] Mongoose Publishing: Babylon 5


                        Michael R. Beaver wrote:
                        > Who refered to you as "the guy"?

                        Well I don't know may be Jonathan got a copy of B5 LST files from you, I
                        kind of assume I had made them, but my memory can be flawed ;)

                        Dave



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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                      • David Finch
                        ... Oh IC, silly me :) BTW as it is traditionally on the Usenet to upset everyone with provincial celebrations; Have a Happy and Safe Bonfire Day this
                        Message 11 of 30 , Nov 1, 2004
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                          Michael R. Beaver wrote:
                          > Heh. I meant the Nov. 5th reference.

                          Oh IC, silly me :)

                          BTW as it is traditionally on the Usenet to upset everyone with provincial
                          celebrations; "Have a Happy and Safe Bonfire Day" this weekend ;)

                          /*Remember*, *Remember*, The Fifth of November!/



                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Jonathan M. Thompson
                          What happens 5 November? Jonathan M. Thompson President, Battlefield Press, Inc. (http://www.battlefieldpress.com) jthompson@battlefieldpress.com / AIM -
                          Message 12 of 30 , Nov 1, 2004
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                            What happens 5 November?

                            Jonathan M. Thompson
                            President, Battlefield Press, Inc. (http://www.battlefieldpress.com)
                            jthompson@... / AIM - GreyLnsman
                            Luftwaffe 1946 Role Playing Game - Available now at RPGNow.com; Eric
                            Flint's 1632 Resource Guide and Role Playing Game - Available November
                            30, 2004


                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: David Finch [mailto:david.finch@...]
                            Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 8:40 AM
                            To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [pcgen] Mongoose Publishing: Babylon 5

                            /*Remember*, *Remember*, The Fifth of November!/



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                          • Michael R. Beaver
                            Guy Faulks day ... From: Jonathan M. Thompson [mailto:jthompson@battlefieldpress.com] Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 4:48 PM To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                            Message 13 of 30 , Nov 1, 2004
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                              Guy Faulks day

                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: Jonathan M. Thompson [mailto:jthompson@...]
                              Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 4:48 PM
                              To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: RE: [pcgen] Mongoose Publishing: Babylon 5


                              What happens 5 November?

                              Jonathan M. Thompson
                              President, Battlefield Press, Inc. (http://www.battlefieldpress.com)
                              jthompson@... / AIM - GreyLnsman Luftwaffe 1946 Role
                              Playing Game - Available now at RPGNow.com; Eric Flint's 1632 Resource
                              Guide and Role Playing Game - Available November 30, 2004


                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: David Finch [mailto:david.finch@...]
                              Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 8:40 AM
                              To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [pcgen] Mongoose Publishing: Babylon 5

                              /*Remember*, *Remember*, The Fifth of November!/



                              ---
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                            • Lizard
                              On 08:57 PM 11/1/2004, Nigel Bennington said.... ... Two words: Berne Convention. A whole lot more words: Even if use is legal elsewhere, international law
                              Message 14 of 30 , Nov 1, 2004
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                                On 08:57 PM 11/1/2004, Nigel Bennington said....

                                >You should be aware that "Fair Use" is an American concept that most of the
                                >rest of the world does not share, since PCGEN is an internationally
                                >distributed product, we need to abide by international copyright law, not
                                >American, so "Fair Use" does not come into play.

                                Two words: Berne Convention.

                                A whole lot more words: Even if use is legal elsewhere, international law
                                allows for cases to be brought where it is NOT, so, if Mongoose wanted to
                                sue, they could do so in the UK or in the US, wherever it was more viable
                                for them.
                              • Nigel Bennington
                                You should be aware that Fair Use is an American concept that most of the rest of the world does not share, since PCGEN is an internationally distributed
                                Message 15 of 30 , Nov 1, 2004
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                                  You should be aware that "Fair Use" is an American concept that most of the
                                  rest of the world does not share, since PCGEN is an internationally
                                  distributed product, we need to abide by international copyright law, not
                                  American, so "Fair Use" does not come into play.

                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: David Finch [mailto:david.finch@...]
                                  Sent: 01 November 2004 10:28
                                  To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [pcgen] Mongoose Publishing: Babylon 5


                                  Derek J. Balling wrote:
                                  > Person1: Gosh I could really use a hitman.
                                  > Person2: Hey, I know this friend of mine, let me introduce you...
                                  > Doesn't really hold up as a defense in court, usually. ;-)
                                  > just thinking out loud, though, not (at all) comparing "copyright
                                  > infraction" to "hiring a hitman" on the badness scale... ;-)

                                  I am sitting here wondering what I should say ... it seam that I have been
                                  hung drawn and quatered, and it is not even the 5th of November yet.

                                  Basically I did ask permission before I started. And Mongoose said yes but
                                  they did not want them distrubuted in PCgen. But they did say that B5
                                  players can use them via the B5 emaillist on Yahoo Groups. I did not ask
                                  about the WB stuff as Mongoose did not want them distrubuted directly but
                                  in a fan way. That was one year ago, things change, lets see what they say
                                  now.

                                  So if you want a copy join the B5 maillist and ask me there.

                                  Dave

                                  NB - I think that this group has become very uptight about copyright,
                                  almost like a child that has been beaten to often, it flinches before being
                                  hit. IANAL, there is such a thing as "fair use", use of data to create a
                                  character is fair use from a RPG. If the licence from WB to Mongoose
                                  excludes use of their IP in computers games then I could see there been a
                                  conflict but other wise I can't see why they would object, but it is always
                                  nice to ask.



                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                                  PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                                  PCGen's alpha build: http://www.legolas.org/pcgen/autobuilds
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                                  http://www.evilsoft.org/pcgen/docs/
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                                • David Finch
                                  ... In 1605, Guy Fawkes and a group of conspirators attempted to blow up the Houses of Parliament (*1). Before they were able to carry out their plan they
                                  Message 16 of 30 , Nov 2, 2004
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Michael R. Beaver wrote:
                                    > Guy Faulks day
                                    >> Jonathan M. Thompson [mailto:jthompson@...] wrote:
                                    >> What happens 5 November?
                                    >>> David Finch [mailto:david.finch@...] wrote:
                                    >>> /*Remember*, *Remember*, The Fifth of November!/

                                    "In 1605, Guy Fawkes and a group of conspirators attempted to blow up the
                                    Houses of Parliament (*1). Before they were able to carry out their plan
                                    they were caught, tortured and executed. Every year since then we have
                                    traditionally celebrated his failure by letting off fireworks and burning
                                    an effigy of 'Guy'"

                                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Fawkes_Night

                                    It is now just an excuse now for an outside party with Fireworks and a
                                    large bonfire ;)

                                    (*1) Note that this was at the State Opening; hence they would have killed
                                    the Executive, Legistive, Judicial and Military 'Branches' of the English
                                    Government. Their intension was to destroy the top of the English political
                                    structure to allow a Catholic take over. It failed, some think that it was
                                    in fact a setup to catch the insurgents.



                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • thoron-tir-gwaith@lycos.com
                                    Thanks for the history lesson, David. This Texan hasn t done near enough study on english government... I normally stop paying attention just after Henry
                                    Message 17 of 30 , Nov 2, 2004
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Thanks for the history lesson, David. This Texan hasn't done near enough study on english government... I normally stop paying attention just after Henry VIII. I go into the arts (the poets and Shakespeare) but not the politics until just before 1776 (and even then just enough to know the king's name was George), and really pay attention again just prior to 1900, with the european naval arms race, and foundation of characters involved in and formation events leading up to WW1.

                                      But that's just me. . .

                                      Tir Gwaith
                                      LST Chimp
                                    • Steven Gilroy
                                      This is also one of the roots of American Trick or Treat. Back in the olden days people used to ask for a penny for the Guy . This was a monetary donation
                                      Message 18 of 30 , Nov 2, 2004
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        This is also one of the roots of American Trick or Treat. Back in the
                                        olden days people used to ask for "a penny for the Guy". This was a
                                        monetary donation to help create the effigy of Guy that would be burned
                                        on Guy Fawkes Night. Back in the 1800's and 1900's the church even
                                        tried to combine Halloween with Guy Fawkes Night because they viewed
                                        Halloween as to Pagan. That is one of the reasons that people actually
                                        dress up for Guy Fawkes Night too.
                                        (I'm not british but I did spend the night at a Holiday Inn
                                        Express....err...I mean....I saw a special on the History Channel Sunday
                                        evening)

                                        David Finch wrote:

                                        >Michael R. Beaver wrote:
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >>Guy Faulks day
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >>>Jonathan M. Thompson [mailto:jthompson@...] wrote:
                                        >>>What happens 5 November?
                                        >>>
                                        >>>
                                        >>>>David Finch [mailto:david.finch@...] wrote:
                                        >>>>/*Remember*, *Remember*, The Fifth of November!/
                                        >>>>
                                        >>>>
                                        >
                                        >"In 1605, Guy Fawkes and a group of conspirators attempted to blow up the
                                        >Houses of Parliament (*1). Before they were able to carry out their plan
                                        >they were caught, tortured and executed. Every year since then we have
                                        >traditionally celebrated his failure by letting off fireworks and burning
                                        >an effigy of 'Guy'"
                                        >
                                        >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Fawkes_Night
                                        >
                                        >It is now just an excuse now for an outside party with Fireworks and a
                                        >large bonfire ;)
                                        >
                                        >(*1) Note that this was at the State Opening; hence they would have killed
                                        >the Executive, Legistive, Judicial and Military 'Branches' of the English
                                        >Government. Their intension was to destroy the top of the English political
                                        >structure to allow a Catholic take over. It failed, some think that it was
                                        >in fact a setup to catch the insurgents.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        --

                                        Steven Gilroy
                                        PCGen OS Lemur
                                        "In a world without fences, who needs GATES?"



                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • Michael R. Beaver
                                        Penny for the Guy? ________________________________ From: David Finch [mailto:david.finch@ipasystems.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 3:44 AM To:
                                        Message 19 of 30 , Nov 2, 2004
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Penny for the Guy?

                                          ________________________________

                                          From: David Finch [mailto:david.finch@...]
                                          Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 3:44 AM
                                          To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subject: Bonfire Night was [Re: [pcgen] Mongoose Publishing: Babylon 5]


                                          Michael R. Beaver wrote:
                                          > Guy Faulks day
                                          >> Jonathan M. Thompson [mailto:jthompson@...] wrote:
                                          >> What happens 5 November?
                                          >>> David Finch [mailto:david.finch@...] wrote:
                                          >>> /*Remember*, *Remember*, The Fifth of November!/

                                          "In 1605, Guy Fawkes and a group of conspirators attempted to blow up
                                          the
                                          Houses of Parliament (*1). Before they were able to carry out their plan

                                          they were caught, tortured and executed. Every year since then we have
                                          traditionally celebrated his failure by letting off fireworks and
                                          burning
                                          an effigy of 'Guy'"

                                          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Fawkes_Night

                                          It is now just an excuse now for an outside party with Fireworks and a
                                          large bonfire ;)

                                          (*1) Note that this was at the State Opening; hence they would have
                                          killed
                                          the Executive, Legistive, Judicial and Military 'Branches' of the
                                          English
                                          Government. Their intension was to destroy the top of the English
                                          political
                                          structure to allow a Catholic take over. It failed, some think that it
                                          was
                                          in fact a setup to catch the insurgents.



                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                                          PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                                          PCGen's alpha build: http://www.legolas.org/pcgen/autobuilds
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                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • Mike Mitchell
                                          On Tue, 2 Nov 2004 06:13:10 -0800, Michael R. Beaver ... Children make a mannequin figure, trundle it about, begging small change off people, then go and buy
                                          Message 20 of 30 , Nov 2, 2004
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            On Tue, 2 Nov 2004 06:13:10 -0800, Michael R. Beaver
                                            <michael@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Penny for the Guy?

                                            Children make a mannequin figure, trundle it about, begging small
                                            change off people, then go and buy small explosives to play with.
                                            Originally innocent fun, until the little gits started hurting
                                            themselves with the fireworks, or putting them through people's doors
                                            etc.

                                            The "Guy" would be burnt on a bonfire during the fireworks - to
                                            recreate the execution of the "heretic" Guy Fawkes after his failed
                                            attempt to blow up the Houses of Parliament.

                                            --
                                            "Without change, something sleeps inside us, and seldom awakens. The
                                            sleeper must awaken."
                                          • Ed Holley
                                            It is also a concept required for software under Russian law. _____ From: Nigel Bennington [mailto:nigel@onlineguild.com] Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 20:57
                                            Message 21 of 30 , Nov 2, 2004
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              It is also a concept required for software under Russian law.



                                              _____

                                              From: Nigel Bennington [mailto:nigel@...]
                                              Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 20:57
                                              To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subject: RE: [pcgen] Mongoose Publishing: Babylon 5



                                              You should be aware that "Fair Use" is an American concept that most of the
                                              rest of the world does not share, since PCGEN is an internationally
                                              distributed product, we need to abide by international copyright law, not
                                              American, so "Fair Use" does not come into play.

                                              -----Original Message-----
                                              From: David Finch [mailto:david.finch@...]
                                              Sent: 01 November 2004 10:28
                                              To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subject: Re: [pcgen] Mongoose Publishing: Babylon 5


                                              Derek J. Balling wrote:
                                              > Person1: Gosh I could really use a hitman.
                                              > Person2: Hey, I know this friend of mine, let me introduce you...
                                              > Doesn't really hold up as a defense in court, usually. ;-)
                                              > just thinking out loud, though, not (at all) comparing "copyright
                                              > infraction" to "hiring a hitman" on the badness scale... ;-)

                                              I am sitting here wondering what I should say ... it seam that I have been
                                              hung drawn and quatered, and it is not even the 5th of November yet.

                                              Basically I did ask permission before I started. And Mongoose said yes but
                                              they did not want them distrubuted in PCgen. But they did say that B5
                                              players can use them via the B5 emaillist on Yahoo Groups. I did not ask
                                              about the WB stuff as Mongoose did not want them distrubuted directly but
                                              in a fan way. That was one year ago, things change, lets see what they say
                                              now.

                                              So if you want a copy join the B5 maillist and ask me there.

                                              Dave

                                              NB - I think that this group has become very uptight about copyright,
                                              almost like a child that has been beaten to often, it flinches before being
                                              hit. IANAL, there is such a thing as "fair use", use of data to create a
                                              character is fair use from a RPG. If the licence from WB to Mongoose
                                              excludes use of their IP in computers games then I could see there been a
                                              conflict but other wise I can't see why they would object, but it is always
                                              nice to ask.





                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            • David Finch
                                              ... http://www.cerebalaw.com/berne.htm *The Berne Convention on Literary and Artistic Works* /Artical 10/ (1) It shall be permissible to make quotations from
                                              Message 22 of 30 , Nov 2, 2004
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                Nigel Bennington wrote:
                                                > You should be aware that "Fair Use" is an American concept that most of the
                                                > rest of the world does not share, since PCGEN is an internationally
                                                > distributed product, we need to abide by international copyright law, not
                                                > American, so "Fair Use" does not come into play.

                                                http://www.cerebalaw.com/berne.htm
                                                *The Berne Convention on Literary and Artistic Works*
                                                /Artical 10/

                                                "(1) It shall be permissible to make quotations from a work which has
                                                already been lawfully made available to the public, provided that their
                                                making is compatible with /fair practice/, and their extent does not exceed
                                                that justified by the purpose, including quotations from newspaper articles
                                                and periodicals in the form of press summaries."

                                                "Fair Use" (US) = "Fair Practice", the definitions of what is "Fair
                                                Practice" change from county to county but not the concept itself. This
                                                concept has been stretch in many places to include for example 'time
                                                shifted' copies of broadcasted copyright information.

                                                United States = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use
                                                The Commonwealth = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_dealing
                                                ...

                                                I agree that I was not being specific enough when I used "Fair Use" and had
                                                assumed that this was the generic term.

                                                Dave



                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              • Michael R. Beaver
                                                OK all. This thread is DONE. If you want to discuss it further take it over to: ogf-d20-l-bounces@opengamingfoundation.org This is a mailing list for
                                                Message 23 of 30 , Nov 2, 2004
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  OK all. This thread is DONE. If you want to discuss it further take
                                                  it over to: "ogf-d20-l-bounces@..." This is a
                                                  mailing list for pcgen.....


                                                  Beaver
                                                  PCGen BoD - Chair/PL

                                                  -----Original Message-----
                                                  From: David Finch [mailto:david.finch@...]
                                                  Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 7:21 AM
                                                  To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Subject: Re: [pcgen] Mongoose Publishing: Babylon 5


                                                  Nigel Bennington wrote:
                                                  > You should be aware that "Fair Use" is an American concept that most
                                                  > of the rest of the world does not share, since PCGEN is an
                                                  > internationally distributed product, we need to abide by international

                                                  > copyright law, not American, so "Fair Use" does not come into play.

                                                  http://www.cerebalaw.com/berne.htm
                                                  *The Berne Convention on Literary and Artistic Works* /Artical 10/

                                                  "(1) It shall be permissible to make quotations from a work which has
                                                  already been lawfully made available to the public, provided that their
                                                  making is compatible with /fair practice/, and their extent does not
                                                  exceed that justified by the purpose, including quotations from
                                                  newspaper articles and periodicals in the form of press summaries."

                                                  "Fair Use" (US) = "Fair Practice", the definitions of what is "Fair
                                                  Practice" change from county to county but not the concept itself. This
                                                  concept has been stretch in many places to include for example 'time
                                                  shifted' copies of broadcasted copyright information.

                                                  United States = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use
                                                  The Commonwealth = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_dealing
                                                  ...

                                                  I agree that I was not being specific enough when I used "Fair Use" and
                                                  had assumed that this was the generic term.

                                                  Dave



                                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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