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Mongoose Publishing: Babylon 5

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  • Chris McLaughlin
    Hi, Has anyone tried/started developing LST files for Mongoose Publishing s Babylon 5 RPG? Regards, Chris [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    Message 1 of 30 , Oct 31, 2004
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      Hi,

      Has anyone tried/started developing LST files for Mongoose Publishing's
      Babylon 5 RPG?



      Regards,

      Chris



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Paul W. King
      That source is a licensed work. To my knowledge, no one has approached both Mongoose (the publisher) and Warner Brothers (the IP owner) to see if we have
      Message 2 of 30 , Oct 31, 2004
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        That source is a licensed work. To my knowledge, no one has approached both
        Mongoose (the publisher) and Warner Brothers (the IP owner) to see if we
        have permission to create/distribute datasets based on the Babylon 5 line.

        Paul W. King
        TM SB, OGL/PL Chimp, Data Tamarin, BoD

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Chris McLaughlin [mailto:kilthar@...]
        Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2004 4:50 AM
        To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [pcgen] Mongoose Publishing: Babylon 5

        Has anyone tried/started developing LST files for Mongoose Publishing's
        Babylon 5 RPG?
      • Jonathan M. Thompson
        I do know of someone that has written a lst file for Babylon 5, as I have a copy for my home games (been testing it for him). I can contact him and see if I
        Message 3 of 30 , Oct 31, 2004
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          I do know of someone that has written a lst file for Babylon 5, as I
          have a copy for my home games (been testing it for him). I can contact
          him and see if I can give out his email address if you contact me in
          private.

          PS I am not endorsing any act that will violate any copyright,
          trademarks or licenses now in effect.

          Jonathan M. Thompson
          President, Battlefield Press, Inc. (http://www.battlefieldpress.com)
          jthompson@... / AIM - GreyLnsman
          Luftwaffe 1946 Role Playing Game - Available now at RPGNow.com; Eric
          Flint's 1632 Resource Guide and Role Playing Game - Available November
          30, 2004


          -----Original Message-----
          From: Paul W. King [mailto:paulking.rhochi@...]
          Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2004 4:00 AM
          To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [pcgen] Mongoose Publishing: Babylon 5


          That source is a licensed work. To my knowledge, no one has approached
          both
          Mongoose (the publisher) and Warner Brothers (the IP owner) to see if we
          have permission to create/distribute datasets based on the Babylon 5
          line.

          Paul W. King
          TM SB, OGL/PL Chimp, Data Tamarin, BoD

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Chris McLaughlin [mailto:kilthar@...]
          Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2004 4:50 AM
          To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [pcgen] Mongoose Publishing: Babylon 5

          Has anyone tried/started developing LST files for Mongoose Publishing's
          Babylon 5 RPG?





          PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
          PCGen's alpha build: http://www.legolas.org/pcgen/autobuilds
          PCGen's FAQ:
          http://www.evilsoft.org/pcgen/docs/
          Yahoo! Groups Links









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        • Derek J. Balling
          ... Except, of course, that you are by helping a copyright violation occur, facilitating a felony. Just thinking out loud. D [Non-text portions of this message
          Message 4 of 30 , Oct 31, 2004
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            On Oct 31, 2004, at 08:14 AM, Jonathan M. Thompson wrote:

            > PS I am not endorsing any act that will violate any copyright,
            > trademarks or licenses now in effect.

            Except, of course, that you are by helping a copyright violation occur,
            facilitating a felony.

            Just thinking out loud.

            D



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Jonathan M. Thompson
            I m not helping. I was just offering to put two people in touch, they can do what they want when they get together. Jonathan M. Thompson President, Battlefield
            Message 5 of 30 , Oct 31, 2004
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              I'm not helping. I was just offering to put two people in touch, they
              can do what they want when they get together.

              Jonathan M. Thompson
              President, Battlefield Press, Inc. (http://www.battlefieldpress.com)
              jthompson@... / AIM - GreyLnsman
              Luftwaffe 1946 Role Playing Game - Available now at RPGNow.com; Eric
              Flint's 1632 Resource Guide and Role Playing Game - Available November
              30, 2004


              -----Original Message-----
              From: Derek J. Balling [mailto:groups@...]
              Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2004 9:42 AM
              To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [pcgen] Mongoose Publishing: Babylon 5



              On Oct 31, 2004, at 08:14 AM, Jonathan M. Thompson wrote:

              > PS I am not endorsing any act that will violate any copyright,
              > trademarks or licenses now in effect.

              Except, of course, that you are by helping a copyright violation occur,
              facilitating a felony.

              Just thinking out loud.

              D



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




              PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
              PCGen's alpha build: http://www.legolas.org/pcgen/autobuilds
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            • jthompson@battlefieldpress.com
              ... Though however I see your point, and withdrawl my offer.
              Message 6 of 30 , Oct 31, 2004
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                --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan M. Thompson" <jthompson@b...>
                wrote:
                > I'm not helping. I was just offering to put two people in touch, they
                > can do what they want when they get together.

                Though however I see your point, and withdrawl my offer.

                > Jonathan M. Thompson
                > President, Battlefield Press, Inc. (http://www.battlefieldpress.com)
                > jthompson@b... / AIM - GreyLnsman
                > Luftwaffe 1946 Role Playing Game - Available now at RPGNow.com; Eric
                > Flint's 1632 Resource Guide and Role Playing Game - Available November
                > 30, 2004
              • Derek J. Balling
                ... Person1: Gosh I could really use a hitman. Person2: Hey, I know this friend of mine, let me introduce you... Doesn t really hold up as a defense in court,
                Message 7 of 30 , Oct 31, 2004
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                  On Oct 31, 2004, at 11:58 AM, Jonathan M. Thompson wrote:
                  > I'm not helping. I was just offering to put two people in touch, they
                  > can do what they want when they get together.

                  Person1: Gosh I could really use a hitman.
                  Person2: Hey, I know this friend of mine, let me introduce you...

                  Doesn't really hold up as a defense in court, usually. ;-)

                  just thinking out loud, though, not (at all) comparing "copyright
                  infraction" to "hiring a hitman" on the badness scale... ;-)

                  Cheers,
                  D



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Chris McLaughlin
                  Hi Paul, I have sent an email to Mongoose Publishing asking for permission to include Babylon 5 in PCGen and also asked about the IP aspect regarding Warner
                  Message 8 of 30 , Oct 31, 2004
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                    Hi Paul,

                    I have sent an email to Mongoose Publishing asking for permission to include
                    Babylon 5 in PCGen and also asked about the IP aspect regarding Warner
                    Brothers.



                    I'll keep you up to date with developments as they happen.



                    Regards,

                    Chris



                    _____

                    From: Paul W. King [mailto:paulking.rhochi@...]
                    Sent: Sunday, 31 October 2004 11:00 p.m.
                    To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: RE: [pcgen] Mongoose Publishing: Babylon 5



                    That source is a licensed work. To my knowledge, no one has approached both
                    Mongoose (the publisher) and Warner Brothers (the IP owner) to see if we
                    have permission to create/distribute datasets based on the Babylon 5 line.

                    Paul W. King
                    TM SB, OGL/PL Chimp, Data Tamarin, BoD

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Chris McLaughlin [mailto:kilthar@...]
                    Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2004 4:50 AM
                    To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [pcgen] Mongoose Publishing: Babylon 5

                    Has anyone tried/started developing LST files for Mongoose Publishing's
                    Babylon 5 RPG?




                    PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                    PCGen's alpha build: http://www.legolas.org/pcgen/autobuilds
                    PCGen's FAQ:
                    http://www.evilsoft.org/pcgen/docs/






                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Michael R. Beaver
                    Chris, Contact me off list about this source. Beaver PCGen BoD - Chair/PL ( michael at tripleknot.com) ________________________________ From: Chris McLaughlin
                    Message 9 of 30 , Oct 31, 2004
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                      Chris,

                      Contact me off list about this source.

                      Beaver
                      PCGen BoD - Chair/PL
                      ( michael at tripleknot.com)

                      ________________________________

                      From: Chris McLaughlin [mailto:kilthar@...]
                      Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2004 9:57 PM
                      To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: RE: [pcgen] Mongoose Publishing: Babylon 5


                      Hi Paul,

                      I have sent an email to Mongoose Publishing asking for permission to
                      include
                      Babylon 5 in PCGen and also asked about the IP aspect regarding Warner
                      Brothers.



                      I'll keep you up to date with developments as they happen.



                      Regards,

                      Chris



                      _____

                      From: Paul W. King [mailto:paulking.rhochi@...]
                      Sent: Sunday, 31 October 2004 11:00 p.m.
                      To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: RE: [pcgen] Mongoose Publishing: Babylon 5



                      That source is a licensed work. To my knowledge, no one has approached
                      both
                      Mongoose (the publisher) and Warner Brothers (the IP owner) to see if we
                      have permission to create/distribute datasets based on the Babylon 5
                      line.

                      Paul W. King
                      TM SB, OGL/PL Chimp, Data Tamarin, BoD

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Chris McLaughlin [mailto:kilthar@...]
                      Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2004 4:50 AM
                      To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [pcgen] Mongoose Publishing: Babylon 5

                      Has anyone tried/started developing LST files for Mongoose Publishing's
                      Babylon 5 RPG?




                      PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                      PCGen's alpha build: http://www.legolas.org/pcgen/autobuilds
                      PCGen's FAQ:
                      http://www.evilsoft.org/pcgen/docs/






                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                      PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                      PCGen's alpha build: http://www.legolas.org/pcgen/autobuilds
                      PCGen's FAQ:
                      http://www.evilsoft.org/pcgen/docs/



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                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • David Finch
                      ... I am sitting here wondering what I should say ... it seam that I have been hung drawn and quatered, and it is not even the 5th of November yet. Basically I
                      Message 10 of 30 , Nov 1, 2004
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                        Derek J. Balling wrote:
                        > Person1: Gosh I could really use a hitman.
                        > Person2: Hey, I know this friend of mine, let me introduce you...
                        > Doesn't really hold up as a defense in court, usually. ;-)
                        > just thinking out loud, though, not (at all) comparing "copyright
                        > infraction" to "hiring a hitman" on the badness scale... ;-)

                        I am sitting here wondering what I should say ... it seam that I have been
                        hung drawn and quatered, and it is not even the 5th of November yet.

                        Basically I did ask permission before I started. And Mongoose said yes but
                        they did not want them distrubuted in PCgen. But they did say that B5
                        players can use them via the B5 emaillist on Yahoo Groups. I did not ask
                        about the WB stuff as Mongoose did not want them distrubuted directly but
                        in a fan way. That was one year ago, things change, lets see what they say now.

                        So if you want a copy join the B5 maillist and ask me there.

                        Dave

                        NB - I think that this group has become very uptight about copyright,
                        almost like a child that has been beaten to often, it flinches before being
                        hit. IANAL, there is such a thing as "fair use", use of data to create a
                        character is fair use from a RPG. If the licence from WB to Mongoose
                        excludes use of their IP in computers games then I could see there been a
                        conflict but other wise I can't see why they would object, but it is always
                        nice to ask.



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • notyetmousse24@aol.com
                        groups sez... Person1: Gosh I could really use a hitman. Person2: Hey, I know this friend of mine, let me introduce you... Doesn t really hold up as a defense
                        Message 11 of 30 , Nov 1, 2004
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                          groups sez...

                          'Person1: Gosh I could really use a hitman.
                          Person2: Hey, I know this friend of mine, let me introduce you...

                          Doesn't really hold up as a defense in court, usually.'

                          Sure it does! I mean why would reffering your friend to a dealer in
                          obviously illegal services be considered bad?

                          'just thinking out loud, though, not (at all) comparing "copyright
                          infraction" to "hiring a hitman" on the badness scale...'

                          You might not, but I'm sure the MPAA and RIAA disagree with you.

                          NotMousse
                          TM, QA Tamarin, Made Emily Smirle laugh

                          I mean, if I can't even get a discount out of someone else's misfortune,
                          what's the point?
                          -MisterTambo, founding member of the League of Unemployed Gentlemen


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Michael R. Beaver
                          OK all. So here is the thing. Yes we are twitchy about distributing copyrighted material. I have been talking with Mongoose about this since GAMA. They are
                          Message 12 of 30 , Nov 1, 2004
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                            OK all. So here is the thing. Yes we are twitchy about distributing
                            copyrighted material. I have been talking with Mongoose about this
                            since GAMA. They are interested and pursuing this with WB to see if
                            they will let us produce/distribute. I usually do not post information
                            like this until I have a more solid answer beyond "I am talkign to the
                            them about it." Part of the issue is that the publishers needed to be
                            fully educated on who PCGen is and what exactly we do. Once the
                            understanding of Open SOurce and how it relates to their PI was
                            understood it became alot easier to get permissions for book/sources.
                            One of the biggest challenges is getting people to code sources that
                            publishers want to see.

                            Now the twitch is distribution. We CANNOT publically distribute files
                            via the site or the zip files that we do not have perms for. So if
                            people would like to make a set for B5 that I can show to Mongoose we
                            can do that. However without an email from them giving us permision we
                            cannot distribute it or host it.

                            Beaver
                            PCGen BoD - Chair/PL

                            ________________________________

                            From: David Finch [mailto:david.finch@...]
                            Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 2:28 AM
                            To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [pcgen] Mongoose Publishing: Babylon 5


                            Derek J. Balling wrote:
                            > Person1: Gosh I could really use a hitman.
                            > Person2: Hey, I know this friend of mine, let me introduce you...
                            > Doesn't really hold up as a defense in court, usually. ;-)
                            > just thinking out loud, though, not (at all) comparing "copyright
                            > infraction" to "hiring a hitman" on the badness scale... ;-)

                            I am sitting here wondering what I should say ... it seam that I have
                            been
                            hung drawn and quatered, and it is not even the 5th of November yet.

                            Basically I did ask permission before I started. And Mongoose said yes
                            but
                            they did not want them distrubuted in PCgen. But they did say that B5
                            players can use them via the B5 emaillist on Yahoo Groups. I did not ask

                            about the WB stuff as Mongoose did not want them distrubuted directly
                            but
                            in a fan way. That was one year ago, things change, lets see what they
                            say now.

                            So if you want a copy join the B5 maillist and ask me there.

                            Dave

                            NB - I think that this group has become very uptight about copyright,
                            almost like a child that has been beaten to often, it flinches before
                            being
                            hit. IANAL, there is such a thing as "fair use", use of data to create a

                            character is fair use from a RPG. If the licence from WB to Mongoose
                            excludes use of their IP in computers games then I could see there been
                            a
                            conflict but other wise I can't see why they would object, but it is
                            always
                            nice to ask.



                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Michael R. Beaver
                            Who refered to you as the guy ? ________________________________ From: David Finch [mailto:david.finch@ipasystems.co.uk] Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 2:28
                            Message 13 of 30 , Nov 1, 2004
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Who refered to you as "the guy"?

                              ________________________________

                              From: David Finch [mailto:david.finch@...]
                              Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 2:28 AM
                              To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [pcgen] Mongoose Publishing: Babylon 5


                              Derek J. Balling wrote:
                              > Person1: Gosh I could really use a hitman.
                              > Person2: Hey, I know this friend of mine, let me introduce you...
                              > Doesn't really hold up as a defense in court, usually. ;-)
                              > just thinking out loud, though, not (at all) comparing "copyright
                              > infraction" to "hiring a hitman" on the badness scale... ;-)

                              I am sitting here wondering what I should say ... it seam that I have
                              been
                              hung drawn and quatered, and it is not even the 5th of November yet.

                              Basically I did ask permission before I started. And Mongoose said yes
                              but
                              they did not want them distrubuted in PCgen. But they did say that B5
                              players can use them via the B5 emaillist on Yahoo Groups. I did not ask

                              about the WB stuff as Mongoose did not want them distrubuted directly
                              but
                              in a fan way. That was one year ago, things change, lets see what they
                              say now.

                              So if you want a copy join the B5 maillist and ask me there.

                              Dave

                              NB - I think that this group has become very uptight about copyright,
                              almost like a child that has been beaten to often, it flinches before
                              being
                              hit. IANAL, there is such a thing as "fair use", use of data to create a

                              character is fair use from a RPG. If the licence from WB to Mongoose
                              excludes use of their IP in computers games then I could see there been
                              a
                              conflict but other wise I can't see why they would object, but it is
                              always
                              nice to ask.



                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                              PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                              PCGen's alpha build: http://www.legolas.org/pcgen/autobuilds
                              PCGen's FAQ:
                              http://www.evilsoft.org/pcgen/docs/



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                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • notyetmousse24@aol.com
                              jthompson sez... I do know of someone that has written a lst file for Babylon 5, as I have a copy for my home games (been testing it for him). I can contact
                              Message 14 of 30 , Nov 1, 2004
                              • 0 Attachment
                                jthompson sez...

                                'I do know of someone that has written a lst file for Babylon 5, as I have a
                                copy for my home games (been testing it for him). I can contact him and see if
                                I can give out his email address if you contact me in private.'

                                In general it is considered smarter to offer such illegal help out of the
                                earshot (or eyeshot as the case may be) of a large group of witnesses and/or
                                where a standing record is kept.

                                NotMousse
                                TM, QA Tamarin, Made Emily Smirle laugh

                                I mean, if I can't even get a discount out of someone else's misfortune,
                                what's the point?
                                -MisterTambo, founding member of the League of Unemployed Gentlemen


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • David Finch
                                ... Well I don t know may be Jonathan got a copy of B5 LST files from you, I kind of assume I had made them, but my memory can be flawed ;) Dave [Non-text
                                Message 15 of 30 , Nov 1, 2004
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Michael R. Beaver wrote:
                                  > Who refered to you as "the guy"?

                                  Well I don't know may be Jonathan got a copy of B5 LST files from you, I
                                  kind of assume I had made them, but my memory can be flawed ;)

                                  Dave



                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • David Finch
                                  ... And it is resnoble to me, just why does it have to become an inquisition everytime some on mension it? ... As expected, B5 is well supported having LST
                                  Message 16 of 30 , Nov 1, 2004
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                                    Michael R. Beaver wrote:
                                    > OK all. So here is the thing. Yes we are twitchy about distributing
                                    > copyrighted material.

                                    And it is resnoble to me, just why does it have to become an inquisition
                                    everytime some on mension it?

                                    > I have been talking with Mongoose about this
                                    > since GAMA. They are interested and pursuing this with WB to see if
                                    > they will let us produce/distribute. I usually do not post information
                                    > like this until I have a more solid answer beyond "I am talkign to the
                                    > them about it." Part of the issue is that the publishers needed to be
                                    > fully educated on who PCGen is and what exactly we do. Once the
                                    > understanding of Open SOurce and how it relates to their PI was
                                    > understood it became alot easier to get permissions for book/sources.
                                    > One of the biggest challenges is getting people to code sources that
                                    > publishers want to see.

                                    As expected, B5 is well supported having LST files would help them sell
                                    more books.

                                    > Now the twitch is distribution. We CANNOT publically distribute files
                                    > via the site or the zip files that we do not have perms for. So if
                                    > people would like to make a set for B5 that I can show to Mongoose we
                                    > can do that. However without an email from them giving us permision we
                                    > cannot distribute it or host it.

                                    And this is why I have not up to this point even mension it here, I think I
                                    asked for help in the LSThelp files using 'codes' as is the normal way.
                                    Even on the B5 list it is not avaiable to the public to download, only to
                                    people that directly ask, which is kind of what MP asked me to do (BTW it
                                    was over a year ago so I doubt that anyone would now remeber there).

                                    I have been a bit busy on the personal life front so have not been working
                                    very hard on the B5 LST files, if this got offical permission from MP you
                                    can assume that our work will become avaiable and I would help out.

                                    Dave



                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Michael R. Beaver
                                    Heh. I meant the Nov. 5th reference. ... From: David Finch [mailto:david.finch@ipasystems.co.uk] Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 5:49 AM To:
                                    Message 17 of 30 , Nov 1, 2004
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Heh. I meant the Nov. 5th reference.

                                      -----Original Message-----
                                      From: David Finch [mailto:david.finch@...]
                                      Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 5:49 AM
                                      To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: Re: [pcgen] Mongoose Publishing: Babylon 5


                                      Michael R. Beaver wrote:
                                      > Who refered to you as "the guy"?

                                      Well I don't know may be Jonathan got a copy of B5 LST files from you, I
                                      kind of assume I had made them, but my memory can be flawed ;)

                                      Dave



                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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                                    • David Finch
                                      ... Oh IC, silly me :) BTW as it is traditionally on the Usenet to upset everyone with provincial celebrations; Have a Happy and Safe Bonfire Day this
                                      Message 18 of 30 , Nov 1, 2004
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                                        Michael R. Beaver wrote:
                                        > Heh. I meant the Nov. 5th reference.

                                        Oh IC, silly me :)

                                        BTW as it is traditionally on the Usenet to upset everyone with provincial
                                        celebrations; "Have a Happy and Safe Bonfire Day" this weekend ;)

                                        /*Remember*, *Remember*, The Fifth of November!/



                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • Jonathan M. Thompson
                                        What happens 5 November? Jonathan M. Thompson President, Battlefield Press, Inc. (http://www.battlefieldpress.com) jthompson@battlefieldpress.com / AIM -
                                        Message 19 of 30 , Nov 1, 2004
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                                          What happens 5 November?

                                          Jonathan M. Thompson
                                          President, Battlefield Press, Inc. (http://www.battlefieldpress.com)
                                          jthompson@... / AIM - GreyLnsman
                                          Luftwaffe 1946 Role Playing Game - Available now at RPGNow.com; Eric
                                          Flint's 1632 Resource Guide and Role Playing Game - Available November
                                          30, 2004


                                          -----Original Message-----
                                          From: David Finch [mailto:david.finch@...]
                                          Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 8:40 AM
                                          To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subject: Re: [pcgen] Mongoose Publishing: Babylon 5

                                          /*Remember*, *Remember*, The Fifth of November!/



                                          ---
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                                        • Michael R. Beaver
                                          Guy Faulks day ... From: Jonathan M. Thompson [mailto:jthompson@battlefieldpress.com] Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 4:48 PM To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                                          Message 20 of 30 , Nov 1, 2004
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Guy Faulks day

                                            -----Original Message-----
                                            From: Jonathan M. Thompson [mailto:jthompson@...]
                                            Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 4:48 PM
                                            To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                                            Subject: RE: [pcgen] Mongoose Publishing: Babylon 5


                                            What happens 5 November?

                                            Jonathan M. Thompson
                                            President, Battlefield Press, Inc. (http://www.battlefieldpress.com)
                                            jthompson@... / AIM - GreyLnsman Luftwaffe 1946 Role
                                            Playing Game - Available now at RPGNow.com; Eric Flint's 1632 Resource
                                            Guide and Role Playing Game - Available November 30, 2004


                                            -----Original Message-----
                                            From: David Finch [mailto:david.finch@...]
                                            Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 8:40 AM
                                            To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                                            Subject: Re: [pcgen] Mongoose Publishing: Babylon 5

                                            /*Remember*, *Remember*, The Fifth of November!/



                                            ---
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                                          • Lizard
                                            On 08:57 PM 11/1/2004, Nigel Bennington said.... ... Two words: Berne Convention. A whole lot more words: Even if use is legal elsewhere, international law
                                            Message 21 of 30 , Nov 1, 2004
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                                              On 08:57 PM 11/1/2004, Nigel Bennington said....

                                              >You should be aware that "Fair Use" is an American concept that most of the
                                              >rest of the world does not share, since PCGEN is an internationally
                                              >distributed product, we need to abide by international copyright law, not
                                              >American, so "Fair Use" does not come into play.

                                              Two words: Berne Convention.

                                              A whole lot more words: Even if use is legal elsewhere, international law
                                              allows for cases to be brought where it is NOT, so, if Mongoose wanted to
                                              sue, they could do so in the UK or in the US, wherever it was more viable
                                              for them.
                                            • Nigel Bennington
                                              You should be aware that Fair Use is an American concept that most of the rest of the world does not share, since PCGEN is an internationally distributed
                                              Message 22 of 30 , Nov 1, 2004
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                                                You should be aware that "Fair Use" is an American concept that most of the
                                                rest of the world does not share, since PCGEN is an internationally
                                                distributed product, we need to abide by international copyright law, not
                                                American, so "Fair Use" does not come into play.

                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                From: David Finch [mailto:david.finch@...]
                                                Sent: 01 November 2004 10:28
                                                To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                                                Subject: Re: [pcgen] Mongoose Publishing: Babylon 5


                                                Derek J. Balling wrote:
                                                > Person1: Gosh I could really use a hitman.
                                                > Person2: Hey, I know this friend of mine, let me introduce you...
                                                > Doesn't really hold up as a defense in court, usually. ;-)
                                                > just thinking out loud, though, not (at all) comparing "copyright
                                                > infraction" to "hiring a hitman" on the badness scale... ;-)

                                                I am sitting here wondering what I should say ... it seam that I have been
                                                hung drawn and quatered, and it is not even the 5th of November yet.

                                                Basically I did ask permission before I started. And Mongoose said yes but
                                                they did not want them distrubuted in PCgen. But they did say that B5
                                                players can use them via the B5 emaillist on Yahoo Groups. I did not ask
                                                about the WB stuff as Mongoose did not want them distrubuted directly but
                                                in a fan way. That was one year ago, things change, lets see what they say
                                                now.

                                                So if you want a copy join the B5 maillist and ask me there.

                                                Dave

                                                NB - I think that this group has become very uptight about copyright,
                                                almost like a child that has been beaten to often, it flinches before being
                                                hit. IANAL, there is such a thing as "fair use", use of data to create a
                                                character is fair use from a RPG. If the licence from WB to Mongoose
                                                excludes use of their IP in computers games then I could see there been a
                                                conflict but other wise I can't see why they would object, but it is always
                                                nice to ask.



                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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                                              • David Finch
                                                ... In 1605, Guy Fawkes and a group of conspirators attempted to blow up the Houses of Parliament (*1). Before they were able to carry out their plan they
                                                Message 23 of 30 , Nov 2, 2004
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                                                  Michael R. Beaver wrote:
                                                  > Guy Faulks day
                                                  >> Jonathan M. Thompson [mailto:jthompson@...] wrote:
                                                  >> What happens 5 November?
                                                  >>> David Finch [mailto:david.finch@...] wrote:
                                                  >>> /*Remember*, *Remember*, The Fifth of November!/

                                                  "In 1605, Guy Fawkes and a group of conspirators attempted to blow up the
                                                  Houses of Parliament (*1). Before they were able to carry out their plan
                                                  they were caught, tortured and executed. Every year since then we have
                                                  traditionally celebrated his failure by letting off fireworks and burning
                                                  an effigy of 'Guy'"

                                                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Fawkes_Night

                                                  It is now just an excuse now for an outside party with Fireworks and a
                                                  large bonfire ;)

                                                  (*1) Note that this was at the State Opening; hence they would have killed
                                                  the Executive, Legistive, Judicial and Military 'Branches' of the English
                                                  Government. Their intension was to destroy the top of the English political
                                                  structure to allow a Catholic take over. It failed, some think that it was
                                                  in fact a setup to catch the insurgents.



                                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                • thoron-tir-gwaith@lycos.com
                                                  Thanks for the history lesson, David. This Texan hasn t done near enough study on english government... I normally stop paying attention just after Henry
                                                  Message 24 of 30 , Nov 2, 2004
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    Thanks for the history lesson, David. This Texan hasn't done near enough study on english government... I normally stop paying attention just after Henry VIII. I go into the arts (the poets and Shakespeare) but not the politics until just before 1776 (and even then just enough to know the king's name was George), and really pay attention again just prior to 1900, with the european naval arms race, and foundation of characters involved in and formation events leading up to WW1.

                                                    But that's just me. . .

                                                    Tir Gwaith
                                                    LST Chimp
                                                  • Steven Gilroy
                                                    This is also one of the roots of American Trick or Treat. Back in the olden days people used to ask for a penny for the Guy . This was a monetary donation
                                                    Message 25 of 30 , Nov 2, 2004
                                                    • 0 Attachment
                                                      This is also one of the roots of American Trick or Treat. Back in the
                                                      olden days people used to ask for "a penny for the Guy". This was a
                                                      monetary donation to help create the effigy of Guy that would be burned
                                                      on Guy Fawkes Night. Back in the 1800's and 1900's the church even
                                                      tried to combine Halloween with Guy Fawkes Night because they viewed
                                                      Halloween as to Pagan. That is one of the reasons that people actually
                                                      dress up for Guy Fawkes Night too.
                                                      (I'm not british but I did spend the night at a Holiday Inn
                                                      Express....err...I mean....I saw a special on the History Channel Sunday
                                                      evening)

                                                      David Finch wrote:

                                                      >Michael R. Beaver wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >>Guy Faulks day
                                                      >>
                                                      >>
                                                      >>>Jonathan M. Thompson [mailto:jthompson@...] wrote:
                                                      >>>What happens 5 November?
                                                      >>>
                                                      >>>
                                                      >>>>David Finch [mailto:david.finch@...] wrote:
                                                      >>>>/*Remember*, *Remember*, The Fifth of November!/
                                                      >>>>
                                                      >>>>
                                                      >
                                                      >"In 1605, Guy Fawkes and a group of conspirators attempted to blow up the
                                                      >Houses of Parliament (*1). Before they were able to carry out their plan
                                                      >they were caught, tortured and executed. Every year since then we have
                                                      >traditionally celebrated his failure by letting off fireworks and burning
                                                      >an effigy of 'Guy'"
                                                      >
                                                      >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Fawkes_Night
                                                      >
                                                      >It is now just an excuse now for an outside party with Fireworks and a
                                                      >large bonfire ;)
                                                      >
                                                      >(*1) Note that this was at the State Opening; hence they would have killed
                                                      >the Executive, Legistive, Judicial and Military 'Branches' of the English
                                                      >Government. Their intension was to destroy the top of the English political
                                                      >structure to allow a Catholic take over. It failed, some think that it was
                                                      >in fact a setup to catch the insurgents.
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      --

                                                      Steven Gilroy
                                                      PCGen OS Lemur
                                                      "In a world without fences, who needs GATES?"



                                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                    • Michael R. Beaver
                                                      Penny for the Guy? ________________________________ From: David Finch [mailto:david.finch@ipasystems.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 3:44 AM To:
                                                      Message 26 of 30 , Nov 2, 2004
                                                      • 0 Attachment
                                                        Penny for the Guy?

                                                        ________________________________

                                                        From: David Finch [mailto:david.finch@...]
                                                        Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 3:44 AM
                                                        To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                                                        Subject: Bonfire Night was [Re: [pcgen] Mongoose Publishing: Babylon 5]


                                                        Michael R. Beaver wrote:
                                                        > Guy Faulks day
                                                        >> Jonathan M. Thompson [mailto:jthompson@...] wrote:
                                                        >> What happens 5 November?
                                                        >>> David Finch [mailto:david.finch@...] wrote:
                                                        >>> /*Remember*, *Remember*, The Fifth of November!/

                                                        "In 1605, Guy Fawkes and a group of conspirators attempted to blow up
                                                        the
                                                        Houses of Parliament (*1). Before they were able to carry out their plan

                                                        they were caught, tortured and executed. Every year since then we have
                                                        traditionally celebrated his failure by letting off fireworks and
                                                        burning
                                                        an effigy of 'Guy'"

                                                        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Fawkes_Night

                                                        It is now just an excuse now for an outside party with Fireworks and a
                                                        large bonfire ;)

                                                        (*1) Note that this was at the State Opening; hence they would have
                                                        killed
                                                        the Executive, Legistive, Judicial and Military 'Branches' of the
                                                        English
                                                        Government. Their intension was to destroy the top of the English
                                                        political
                                                        structure to allow a Catholic take over. It failed, some think that it
                                                        was
                                                        in fact a setup to catch the insurgents.



                                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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                                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                      • Mike Mitchell
                                                        On Tue, 2 Nov 2004 06:13:10 -0800, Michael R. Beaver ... Children make a mannequin figure, trundle it about, begging small change off people, then go and buy
                                                        Message 27 of 30 , Nov 2, 2004
                                                        • 0 Attachment
                                                          On Tue, 2 Nov 2004 06:13:10 -0800, Michael R. Beaver
                                                          <michael@...> wrote:
                                                          >
                                                          > Penny for the Guy?

                                                          Children make a mannequin figure, trundle it about, begging small
                                                          change off people, then go and buy small explosives to play with.
                                                          Originally innocent fun, until the little gits started hurting
                                                          themselves with the fireworks, or putting them through people's doors
                                                          etc.

                                                          The "Guy" would be burnt on a bonfire during the fireworks - to
                                                          recreate the execution of the "heretic" Guy Fawkes after his failed
                                                          attempt to blow up the Houses of Parliament.

                                                          --
                                                          "Without change, something sleeps inside us, and seldom awakens. The
                                                          sleeper must awaken."
                                                        • Ed Holley
                                                          It is also a concept required for software under Russian law. _____ From: Nigel Bennington [mailto:nigel@onlineguild.com] Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 20:57
                                                          Message 28 of 30 , Nov 2, 2004
                                                          • 0 Attachment
                                                            It is also a concept required for software under Russian law.



                                                            _____

                                                            From: Nigel Bennington [mailto:nigel@...]
                                                            Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 20:57
                                                            To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                                                            Subject: RE: [pcgen] Mongoose Publishing: Babylon 5



                                                            You should be aware that "Fair Use" is an American concept that most of the
                                                            rest of the world does not share, since PCGEN is an internationally
                                                            distributed product, we need to abide by international copyright law, not
                                                            American, so "Fair Use" does not come into play.

                                                            -----Original Message-----
                                                            From: David Finch [mailto:david.finch@...]
                                                            Sent: 01 November 2004 10:28
                                                            To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                                                            Subject: Re: [pcgen] Mongoose Publishing: Babylon 5


                                                            Derek J. Balling wrote:
                                                            > Person1: Gosh I could really use a hitman.
                                                            > Person2: Hey, I know this friend of mine, let me introduce you...
                                                            > Doesn't really hold up as a defense in court, usually. ;-)
                                                            > just thinking out loud, though, not (at all) comparing "copyright
                                                            > infraction" to "hiring a hitman" on the badness scale... ;-)

                                                            I am sitting here wondering what I should say ... it seam that I have been
                                                            hung drawn and quatered, and it is not even the 5th of November yet.

                                                            Basically I did ask permission before I started. And Mongoose said yes but
                                                            they did not want them distrubuted in PCgen. But they did say that B5
                                                            players can use them via the B5 emaillist on Yahoo Groups. I did not ask
                                                            about the WB stuff as Mongoose did not want them distrubuted directly but
                                                            in a fan way. That was one year ago, things change, lets see what they say
                                                            now.

                                                            So if you want a copy join the B5 maillist and ask me there.

                                                            Dave

                                                            NB - I think that this group has become very uptight about copyright,
                                                            almost like a child that has been beaten to often, it flinches before being
                                                            hit. IANAL, there is such a thing as "fair use", use of data to create a
                                                            character is fair use from a RPG. If the licence from WB to Mongoose
                                                            excludes use of their IP in computers games then I could see there been a
                                                            conflict but other wise I can't see why they would object, but it is always
                                                            nice to ask.





                                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                          • David Finch
                                                            ... http://www.cerebalaw.com/berne.htm *The Berne Convention on Literary and Artistic Works* /Artical 10/ (1) It shall be permissible to make quotations from
                                                            Message 29 of 30 , Nov 2, 2004
                                                            • 0 Attachment
                                                              Nigel Bennington wrote:
                                                              > You should be aware that "Fair Use" is an American concept that most of the
                                                              > rest of the world does not share, since PCGEN is an internationally
                                                              > distributed product, we need to abide by international copyright law, not
                                                              > American, so "Fair Use" does not come into play.

                                                              http://www.cerebalaw.com/berne.htm
                                                              *The Berne Convention on Literary and Artistic Works*
                                                              /Artical 10/

                                                              "(1) It shall be permissible to make quotations from a work which has
                                                              already been lawfully made available to the public, provided that their
                                                              making is compatible with /fair practice/, and their extent does not exceed
                                                              that justified by the purpose, including quotations from newspaper articles
                                                              and periodicals in the form of press summaries."

                                                              "Fair Use" (US) = "Fair Practice", the definitions of what is "Fair
                                                              Practice" change from county to county but not the concept itself. This
                                                              concept has been stretch in many places to include for example 'time
                                                              shifted' copies of broadcasted copyright information.

                                                              United States = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use
                                                              The Commonwealth = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_dealing
                                                              ...

                                                              I agree that I was not being specific enough when I used "Fair Use" and had
                                                              assumed that this was the generic term.

                                                              Dave



                                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                            • Michael R. Beaver
                                                              OK all. This thread is DONE. If you want to discuss it further take it over to: ogf-d20-l-bounces@opengamingfoundation.org This is a mailing list for
                                                              Message 30 of 30 , Nov 2, 2004
                                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                                OK all. This thread is DONE. If you want to discuss it further take
                                                                it over to: "ogf-d20-l-bounces@..." This is a
                                                                mailing list for pcgen.....


                                                                Beaver
                                                                PCGen BoD - Chair/PL

                                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                                From: David Finch [mailto:david.finch@...]
                                                                Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 7:21 AM
                                                                To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                                                                Subject: Re: [pcgen] Mongoose Publishing: Babylon 5


                                                                Nigel Bennington wrote:
                                                                > You should be aware that "Fair Use" is an American concept that most
                                                                > of the rest of the world does not share, since PCGEN is an
                                                                > internationally distributed product, we need to abide by international

                                                                > copyright law, not American, so "Fair Use" does not come into play.

                                                                http://www.cerebalaw.com/berne.htm
                                                                *The Berne Convention on Literary and Artistic Works* /Artical 10/

                                                                "(1) It shall be permissible to make quotations from a work which has
                                                                already been lawfully made available to the public, provided that their
                                                                making is compatible with /fair practice/, and their extent does not
                                                                exceed that justified by the purpose, including quotations from
                                                                newspaper articles and periodicals in the form of press summaries."

                                                                "Fair Use" (US) = "Fair Practice", the definitions of what is "Fair
                                                                Practice" change from county to county but not the concept itself. This
                                                                concept has been stretch in many places to include for example 'time
                                                                shifted' copies of broadcasted copyright information.

                                                                United States = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use
                                                                The Commonwealth = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_dealing
                                                                ...

                                                                I agree that I was not being specific enough when I used "Fair Use" and
                                                                had assumed that this was the generic term.

                                                                Dave



                                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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