--- In

pcgen@yahoogroups.com, mtucker@a... wrote:

> >> > BTW, the one thing I don't like about the xslt sheet is the

fact that

> >> > the first column pair is the "base" scores. Since it's the

column that

> >> > the player's eyes first see, it causes confusion when they are

looking

> >> > at it. I'd prefer to see the modified score first, then the base

> >> > scores, then the grayed out temp scores, in that order left to

right.

> >> > Any comments?

> >>

> >> I would leave it as it is.

> >> BASE ABILITY TEMP

> >> Make the base score light-colored and the ability score dark.

> >> It makes sense to me that on the left side, I have my "lowest"

> >> values without modifications. In the middle I can see my

> >> normal values and on the right side my enhanced values.

> >> So that I can see the progression.

> >>

> >> Marc

> >

> > That's all well and good until you look at a familar. Then it puts in

> > all 10's for the base scores, and the real scores show as the

> > "modified" scores. Now that's really confusing...

> >

>

> Actually, that's the situation for any character who has a template that

> alters their ability scores (e.g. Half-Celestial). The BASE column

is just

> your "raw" ability scores (including normal racial modes, e.g. Elf, but

> not including the racial template). The ABILITY column is your "net"

> ability scores, including any equipment modifiers (e.g. Gloves of

> Dexterity).

>

> So, for a Half-Celestial character wearing Gloves of Dexterity,

*neither*

> column actually shows you your "normal" unmodified ability scores.

> Sub-optimal and confusing, to say the least.

>

> It would be nice if the BASE column reflected changes due to templates.

> That would at least be closer to the truth (for certain values of "true"

> *smile*).

>

> Michael

I did some more checking into this, and it's confusing to say the

least. Just for fun(?) I created a Gnome Cleric2-Barbarian3. Started

off with all 10's for stats. So Gnome gives a -2 to Strength. At

fourth level I gave him a bonus in Strength. Then I bumped his

Strength by +1. Then I added a Belt of Giant Strength +4. Then I added

via a temporary bonus (Bull's Strength) of +2. Here are the results

for Strength:

BASE 11

BASEMOD +2

NOEQUIP 11

MOD.NOEQUIP +0

NOTEMP 13

MOD.NOTEMP +1

NOEQUIP.NOTEMP 9

MOD.NOEQUIP.NOTEMP -1

NOPOST 15

MOD.NOPOST +2

(none) 15

MOD +2

Note that many of these are wrong. BASEMOD should not be +2, it should

be +0. BASE (if I understand the docs) should be 10. NOTEMP is

undocumented, but since it's in the xlst sheets (see BASE.XML), I

thought I'd try it. NOPOST does not seem to do anything at all.

Actually I don't understand how NOPOST could work in the first place.

It seems that the level boost to Strength is exactly the same as the

manual boost to Strength that I did at 5th level (both are

"POSTSTAT:STR=1").

Then just for more fun, I added the Half-Celestial Template on the

Race tab. No other changes from all that above. That added +4 to

Strength. Here are the results:

BASE 11

BASEMOD +4

NOEQUIP 15

MOD.NOEQUIP +2

NOTEMP 17

MOD.NOTEMP +3

NOEQUIP.NOTEMP 13

MOD.NOEQUIP.NOTEMP +1

NOPOST 19

MOD.NOPOST +4

(none) 19

MOD +4

BASE and BASEMOD are still quite wrong. NOPOST still does not seem to

do anything. NOTEMP seems to only remove stat changes that are added

from the Temporary Bonuses tab.

So I've concluded that the proper stats to show on the OS are the

following:

BASE SCOREs => NOEQUIP.NOTEMP

BASE MODs => MOD.NOEQUIP.NOTEMP

ABILITY SCOREs => .NOTEMP

ABILITY MODs => MOD.NOTEMP

TEMP SCOREs => (none)

TEMP MODs => MOD

This will show (in order from left to right):

BASE: abilities scores with all permanent stat adjustments, racial,

and racial templates modifications in place

ABILITY: all the BASE plus any modifications due to equipment equipped.

TEMP: all of ABILITY plus any modifications due to Temporary Bonuses.

I propose to make these changes to the HTML sheets (and would ask

Frugal make the same change to the xlst sheets). Any comments or

questions?

Chuck