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Re: [pcgen] [BARAK]Re: Help with PDF export

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  • Tir Gwaith
    ... ... It does exist, Barak. It is the TurnTimesXXXX vars. They are done with a DEFINE:TurnTimesXXXX|TurnTimesBase statement. Extra Turning feat
    Message 1 of 14 , Jun 2, 2004
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      > > > Anyone know how I can export a cleric with the sun domain into PDF
      > > > without all the extra turning info like turn air/fire/earth/water?
      > > > All I want is turn undead.
      <snip>
      >
      > I would be willing to be the cleric has Extra Turning?
      >
      > It's happening because we use the various variables (TurnTimesxxxx,
      > etc.) to toggle the display. The reasoning being, if they exist, you
      > have that type of turning. Extra Turning mucks that up because it
      > grants a bonus to ALL of the various types of turning.
      >
      > There are a couple of ways I can think of to fix it, but both of them
      > will require modifications to the .lst files as well as the OS..
      >
      > a) create a separate "Extra Turning" feat for each type of turning (NOT
      > optimal in my opinion)
      >
      > b) add yet another variable simply to indicate they have x type of
      > turning (this MAY exist, I'm at work so can't actually look at the .lst
      > files and see if it's already there in some form).

      It does exist, Barak. It is the TurnTimesXXXX vars. They are done with a
      DEFINE:TurnTimesXXXX|TurnTimesBase statement. Extra Turning feat has bonus
      to TurnTimesBase VAR, so it effects all Turning abilities at the same time.

      So if the TurnTimesXXXX var is defined, they have that ability. If it isn't
      defined, they don't. I was thinking ahead when I designed it.... That is
      one of the principle reasons there is a TurnTimesBase VAR..... Doug and I
      had to go around and around to get the complexities in a nice simple form
      that would work in ALL instances, and allow maximum flexibility in how users
      want to use the program. The Matra on the LST Chimp team is "Flexibilty,
      Standardization, Flexibility......" You get picture. One of those words
      usually is what starts our lengthy discussions and the other one usually
      ends it, albeit many hours later.....

      Tir Gwaith
      LST Chimp
    • Paul Grosse
      ... I would be willing to be the cleric has Extra Turning? It s happening because we use the various variables (TurnTimesxxxx, etc.) to toggle the
      Message 2 of 14 , Jun 2, 2004
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        <snip>
        > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "blue_seiryu" <blue_seiryu@y...> wrote:
        > > Anyone know how I can export a cleric with the sun domain into PDF
        > > without all the extra turning info like turn air/fire/earth/water?
        > > All I want is turn undead.
        >
        > This is a Barak type question. He can probably answer it if anyone
        > can. Felipe would also be a good person to answer this.
        >

        I would be willing to be the cleric has Extra Turning?

        It's happening because we use the various variables (TurnTimesxxxx,
        etc.) to toggle the display. The reasoning being, if they exist, you
        have that type of turning. Extra Turning mucks that up because it
        grants a bonus to ALL of the various types of turning.

        There are a couple of ways I can think of to fix it, but both of them
        will require modifications to the .lst files as well as the OS..

        a) create a separate "Extra Turning" feat for each type of turning (NOT
        optimal in my opinion)

        b) add yet another variable simply to indicate they have x type of
        turning (this MAY exist, I'm at work so can't actually look at the .lst
        files and see if it's already there in some form).

        Barak
        </snip>

        There is in the MotW I briefly looked at, the Animal Defiance has this
        for the code

        DEFINE:TurnAnimal|3+CHA

        You could have it check to see if there's a variable greater than 0 for
        each type of turning and only show the ones that have greater than 0.
        And have the Extra Turning apply a generic variable that addes to all
        the turning code on the OS.

        But I seem to remember that Extra Turning had to be applied to only ONE
        type of turning not globally that may only be in my head though.

        Paul "Yes that Paul" Grosse
        PCGen OGL Chimp & LST Lemur-in-training
        ICQ: 14397299
        AO: Nylan
        Various forums: Nylan (or Nylanfs)

        "The Earth is just too small and fragile a basket for the human race to
        keep all it's eggs in." - Robert Heinlein
      • Chuck Pint
        ... ONE ... Nope, the Extra Turning feat from 3.5 says If you have the ability to turn or rebuke more than one type of creature (...), each of your turning or
        Message 3 of 14 , Jun 2, 2004
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          > But I seem to remember that Extra Turning had to be applied to only
          ONE
          > type of turning not globally that may only be in my head though.

          Nope, the Extra Turning feat from 3.5 says "If you have the ability to
          turn or rebuke more than one type of creature (...), each of your
          turning or rebuking abilities gains four additional uses per day." The
          3.0 version doesn't really say anything about anything except undead.

          I'm looking into fixing this all up in the combined OS. Next it will
          go into the other HTML OS.

          Chuck
        • Frugal
          ... I have already fixed this problem in the CVS version of the PDF outputsheets. The problem was that the ExtraTurning feat increases the
          Message 4 of 14 , Jun 3, 2004
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            <quote who="Chris">
            >> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "blue_seiryu" <blue_seiryu@y...> wrote:
            >> > Anyone know how I can export a cleric with the sun domain into PDF
            >> > without all the extra turning info like turn air/fire/earth/water?
            >> > All I want is turn undead.
            >>
            >> This is a Barak type question. He can probably answer it if anyone
            >> can. Felipe would also be a good person to answer this.
            >>
            >
            > I would be willing to be the cleric has Extra Turning?
            >
            > It's happening because we use the various variables (TurnTimesxxxx,
            > etc.) to toggle the display. The reasoning being, if they exist, you
            > have that type of turning. Extra Turning mucks that up because it
            > grants a bonus to ALL of the various types of turning.
            >
            > There are a couple of ways I can think of to fix it, but both of them
            > will require modifications to the .lst files as well as the OS..
            >
            > a) create a separate "Extra Turning" feat for each type of turning (NOT
            > optimal in my opinion)
            >
            > b) add yet another variable simply to indicate they have x type of
            > turning (this MAY exist, I'm at work so can't actually look at the .lst
            > files and see if it's already there in some form).

            I have already fixed this problem in the CVS version of the PDF
            outputsheets. The problem was that the ExtraTurning feat increases the
            times per day for all turning types, not just ones you already have. and
            as the outputsheet displays a turning block for each turning type you have
            >0 turns per day this means that all of the turning blocks get shown.

            The outputsheet now uses the TurnLevel variable instead of the TurnTimes
            variable to determine if a turning block should be shown.


            --
            regards,
            Frugal
            -OS Chimp
          • Chuck Pint
            While the fixes you note below are in place and working, there is still at least one more outstanding bug in the turning Undead. There is a bug listed under
            Message 5 of 14 , Jun 3, 2004
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              While the fixes you note below are in place and working, there is
              still at least one more outstanding bug in the turning Undead. There
              is a bug listed under OS, that looks to me to really be a data bug.
              That's the synergy bonus of +2 with 5 or more ranks in Knowledge
              (religion) to turning checks. Note that this only applies to turning
              Undead, and not to any other turning type. I don't see this anywhere.

              Chuck


              > It does exist, Barak. It is the TurnTimesXXXX vars. They are done
              with a
              > DEFINE:TurnTimesXXXX|TurnTimesBase statement. Extra Turning feat
              has bonus
              > to TurnTimesBase VAR, so it effects all Turning abilities at the
              same time.
              >
              > So if the TurnTimesXXXX var is defined, they have that ability. If
              it isn't
              > defined, they don't. I was thinking ahead when I designed it....
              That is
              > one of the principle reasons there is a TurnTimesBase VAR..... Doug
              and I
              > had to go around and around to get the complexities in a nice simple
              form
              > that would work in ALL instances, and allow maximum flexibility in
              how users
              > want to use the program. The Matra on the LST Chimp team is
              "Flexibilty,
              > Standardization, Flexibility......" You get picture. One of those
              words
              > usually is what starts our lengthy discussions and the other one
              usually
              > ends it, albeit many hours later.....
              >
              > Tir Gwaith
              > LST Chimp
            • Chris
              ... Not quite true and exactly my point (and the problem). Extra Turning grants +x to ALL of those variables, so after they take Extra Turning, all those
              Message 6 of 14 , Jun 3, 2004
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                > So if the TurnTimesXXXX var is defined, they have that ability. If
                > it isn't defined, they don't.

                Not quite true and exactly my point (and the problem). Extra Turning
                grants +x to ALL of those variables, so after they take Extra Turning,
                all those variables do exist (even though a DEFINE has never been used
                for them), and since the sheets are keyed to operate off of them, all
                those tables show up.

                It looks like Frugal has a solution though by simply using one of the
                other variables (TURNLEVELxxx I think he said in his e-mail), so it's
                not a real big deal any more. :p

                It would be nice that if a VAR hadn't been defined it didn't show up
                even if there was a BONUS:VAR for it... I can think of SEVERAL uses for
                that.

                Barak
              • Tir Gwaith
                in rsrdskills.lst, under Knowledge (Religion): BONUS:VAR|TurnCheckUndead|2|PRESKILL:1,Knowledge (Religion)=5 Only applies to Undead Turn Checks. It is in the
                Message 7 of 14 , Jun 3, 2004
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                  in rsrdskills.lst, under Knowledge (Religion):
                  BONUS:VAR|TurnCheckUndead|2|PRESKILL:1,Knowledge (Religion)=5

                  Only applies to Undead Turn Checks. It is in the data... Not sure if the
                  OS is grabbing the right VARs if there is an issue there. :)

                  The only outstanding feature not implemented is the fact that the domains
                  that grant "Fire Turning/Water Rebuking" etc, have a combined number of
                  turning attempts instead of tracking each individually. I can't remember if
                  it was Doug or myself that decided that was an enhancement for another
                  time.. Thanks to Devon for finding that though...

                  Tir Gwaith
                  LST Chimp

                  > While the fixes you note below are in place and working, there is
                  > still at least one more outstanding bug in the turning Undead. There
                  > is a bug listed under OS, that looks to me to really be a data bug.
                  > That's the synergy bonus of +2 with 5 or more ranks in Knowledge
                  > (religion) to turning checks. Note that this only applies to turning
                  > Undead, and not to any other turning type. I don't see this anywhere.
                  >
                  > Chuck
                • Tir Gwaith
                  ... That s BAD... A variable is not supposed to exist unless there is a DEFINE. I ve based a whole lot of logic on that.... Code Bug, perhaps? Tir Gwaith LST
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jun 3, 2004
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                    > > So if the TurnTimesXXXX var is defined, they have that ability. If
                    > > it isn't defined, they don't.
                    >
                    > Not quite true and exactly my point (and the problem). Extra Turning
                    > grants +x to ALL of those variables, so after they take Extra Turning,
                    > all those variables do exist (even though a DEFINE has never been used
                    > for them), and since the sheets are keyed to operate off of them, all
                    > those tables show up.
                    >

                    That's BAD... A variable is not supposed to exist unless there is a DEFINE.
                    I've based a whole lot of logic on that.... Code Bug, perhaps?

                    Tir Gwaith
                    LST Chimp
                  • Chuck Pint
                    Ok, the Knowledge (Religion) does work, I made the mistake of thinking it was the same for 3.0 and 3.5, but only 3.5 actually has that bonus. However, there is
                    Message 9 of 14 , Jun 3, 2004
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                      Ok, the Knowledge (Religion) does work, I made the mistake of thinking
                      it was the same for 3.0 and 3.5, but only 3.5 actually has that bonus.

                      However, there is a problem with the rsrd domains lst file. The Air,
                      Fire, Earth and Water domains do not grant the Turn/Rebuke Feats. Air
                      has a VFEAT (which doesn't work), and the other three have nothing at
                      all. The srd domains lst file is fine.

                      This is going to be important, because the OS team just decided that
                      looking for the feat to turn on a turning block is safer than looking
                      for a variable defined...

                      Chuck

                      --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Tir Gwaith" <thoron-tir-gwaith@l...> wrote:
                      > in rsrdskills.lst, under Knowledge (Religion):
                      > BONUS:VAR|TurnCheckUndead|2|PRESKILL:1,Knowledge (Religion)=5
                      >
                      > Only applies to Undead Turn Checks. It is in the data... Not sure
                      if the
                      > OS is grabbing the right VARs if there is an issue there. :)
                      >
                      > The only outstanding feature not implemented is the fact that the
                      domains
                      > that grant "Fire Turning/Water Rebuking" etc, have a combined number of
                      > turning attempts instead of tracking each individually. I can't
                      remember if
                      > it was Doug or myself that decided that was an enhancement for another
                      > time.. Thanks to Devon for finding that though...
                      >
                      > Tir Gwaith
                      > LST Chimp
                      >
                      > > While the fixes you note below are in place and working, there is
                      > > still at least one more outstanding bug in the turning Undead. There
                      > > is a bug listed under OS, that looks to me to really be a data bug.
                      > > That's the synergy bonus of +2 with 5 or more ranks in Knowledge
                      > > (religion) to turning checks. Note that this only applies to turning
                      > > Undead, and not to any other turning type. I don't see this anywhere.
                      > >
                      > > Chuck
                    • Barak
                      ... I just tested and that is working properly. It works in the xslt sheets and _combined. It doesn t matter at the moment for the _std sheet because the turn
                      Message 10 of 14 , Jun 3, 2004
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                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: Tir Gwaith [mailto:thoron-tir-gwaith@...]

                        > Only applies to Undead Turn Checks. It is in the data...
                        > Not sure if the OS is grabbing the right VARs if there is an
                        > issue there. :)

                        I just tested and that is working properly. It works in the xslt sheets and
                        _combined.

                        It doesn't matter at the moment for the _std sheet because the turn check
                        isn't even shown on there, just the level, damage and turns per day ... I'll
                        have to get that sheet updated. :p

                        Barak
                        ~PCGen BoD
                        ~OS Silverback
                      • Barak
                        ... I wasn t sure if that was how it was supposed to operate or not. You re usually fairly careful about sort of thing, so I was wondering about that one. I
                        Message 11 of 14 , Jun 3, 2004
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                          > -----Original Message-----
                          > From: Tir Gwaith [mailto:thoron-tir-gwaith@...]
                          >
                          > > Extra Turning grants +x to ALL of those variables...
                          >
                          > That's BAD... A variable is not supposed to exist unless
                          > there is a DEFINE. I've based a whole lot of logic on
                          > that.... Code Bug, perhaps?

                          I wasn't sure if that was how it was supposed to operate or not. You're
                          usually fairly careful about sort of thing, so I was wondering about that
                          one.

                          I remember a bug (feature?) where if you did a BONUS:VAR|yyy|#, if the yyy
                          wasn't defined you would end up with double that value because it would
                          initialize the variable to that number, and then add it again. :p

                          I would agree that if a VAR hasn't been defined a bonus to it should be
                          ignored and NOT create the variable.

                          Barak
                          ~PCGen BoD
                          ~OS Silverback
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