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Re: [pcgen] [BARAK]Re: Help with PDF export

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  • Chris
    ... I would be willing to be the cleric has Extra Turning? It s happening because we use the various variables (TurnTimesxxxx, etc.) to toggle the display.
    Message 1 of 14 , Jun 2, 2004
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      > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "blue_seiryu" <blue_seiryu@y...> wrote:
      > > Anyone know how I can export a cleric with the sun domain into PDF
      > > without all the extra turning info like turn air/fire/earth/water?
      > > All I want is turn undead.
      >
      > This is a Barak type question. He can probably answer it if anyone
      > can. Felipe would also be a good person to answer this.
      >

      I would be willing to be the cleric has Extra Turning?

      It's happening because we use the various variables (TurnTimesxxxx,
      etc.) to toggle the display. The reasoning being, if they exist, you
      have that type of turning. Extra Turning mucks that up because it
      grants a bonus to ALL of the various types of turning.

      There are a couple of ways I can think of to fix it, but both of them
      will require modifications to the .lst files as well as the OS..

      a) create a separate "Extra Turning" feat for each type of turning (NOT
      optimal in my opinion)

      b) add yet another variable simply to indicate they have x type of
      turning (this MAY exist, I'm at work so can't actually look at the .lst
      files and see if it's already there in some form).

      Barak
    • Tir Gwaith
      ... ... It does exist, Barak. It is the TurnTimesXXXX vars. They are done with a DEFINE:TurnTimesXXXX|TurnTimesBase statement. Extra Turning feat
      Message 2 of 14 , Jun 2, 2004
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        > > > Anyone know how I can export a cleric with the sun domain into PDF
        > > > without all the extra turning info like turn air/fire/earth/water?
        > > > All I want is turn undead.
        <snip>
        >
        > I would be willing to be the cleric has Extra Turning?
        >
        > It's happening because we use the various variables (TurnTimesxxxx,
        > etc.) to toggle the display. The reasoning being, if they exist, you
        > have that type of turning. Extra Turning mucks that up because it
        > grants a bonus to ALL of the various types of turning.
        >
        > There are a couple of ways I can think of to fix it, but both of them
        > will require modifications to the .lst files as well as the OS..
        >
        > a) create a separate "Extra Turning" feat for each type of turning (NOT
        > optimal in my opinion)
        >
        > b) add yet another variable simply to indicate they have x type of
        > turning (this MAY exist, I'm at work so can't actually look at the .lst
        > files and see if it's already there in some form).

        It does exist, Barak. It is the TurnTimesXXXX vars. They are done with a
        DEFINE:TurnTimesXXXX|TurnTimesBase statement. Extra Turning feat has bonus
        to TurnTimesBase VAR, so it effects all Turning abilities at the same time.

        So if the TurnTimesXXXX var is defined, they have that ability. If it isn't
        defined, they don't. I was thinking ahead when I designed it.... That is
        one of the principle reasons there is a TurnTimesBase VAR..... Doug and I
        had to go around and around to get the complexities in a nice simple form
        that would work in ALL instances, and allow maximum flexibility in how users
        want to use the program. The Matra on the LST Chimp team is "Flexibilty,
        Standardization, Flexibility......" You get picture. One of those words
        usually is what starts our lengthy discussions and the other one usually
        ends it, albeit many hours later.....

        Tir Gwaith
        LST Chimp
      • Paul Grosse
        ... I would be willing to be the cleric has Extra Turning? It s happening because we use the various variables (TurnTimesxxxx, etc.) to toggle the
        Message 3 of 14 , Jun 2, 2004
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          <snip>
          > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "blue_seiryu" <blue_seiryu@y...> wrote:
          > > Anyone know how I can export a cleric with the sun domain into PDF
          > > without all the extra turning info like turn air/fire/earth/water?
          > > All I want is turn undead.
          >
          > This is a Barak type question. He can probably answer it if anyone
          > can. Felipe would also be a good person to answer this.
          >

          I would be willing to be the cleric has Extra Turning?

          It's happening because we use the various variables (TurnTimesxxxx,
          etc.) to toggle the display. The reasoning being, if they exist, you
          have that type of turning. Extra Turning mucks that up because it
          grants a bonus to ALL of the various types of turning.

          There are a couple of ways I can think of to fix it, but both of them
          will require modifications to the .lst files as well as the OS..

          a) create a separate "Extra Turning" feat for each type of turning (NOT
          optimal in my opinion)

          b) add yet another variable simply to indicate they have x type of
          turning (this MAY exist, I'm at work so can't actually look at the .lst
          files and see if it's already there in some form).

          Barak
          </snip>

          There is in the MotW I briefly looked at, the Animal Defiance has this
          for the code

          DEFINE:TurnAnimal|3+CHA

          You could have it check to see if there's a variable greater than 0 for
          each type of turning and only show the ones that have greater than 0.
          And have the Extra Turning apply a generic variable that addes to all
          the turning code on the OS.

          But I seem to remember that Extra Turning had to be applied to only ONE
          type of turning not globally that may only be in my head though.

          Paul "Yes that Paul" Grosse
          PCGen OGL Chimp & LST Lemur-in-training
          ICQ: 14397299
          AO: Nylan
          Various forums: Nylan (or Nylanfs)

          "The Earth is just too small and fragile a basket for the human race to
          keep all it's eggs in." - Robert Heinlein
        • Chuck Pint
          ... ONE ... Nope, the Extra Turning feat from 3.5 says If you have the ability to turn or rebuke more than one type of creature (...), each of your turning or
          Message 4 of 14 , Jun 2, 2004
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            > But I seem to remember that Extra Turning had to be applied to only
            ONE
            > type of turning not globally that may only be in my head though.

            Nope, the Extra Turning feat from 3.5 says "If you have the ability to
            turn or rebuke more than one type of creature (...), each of your
            turning or rebuking abilities gains four additional uses per day." The
            3.0 version doesn't really say anything about anything except undead.

            I'm looking into fixing this all up in the combined OS. Next it will
            go into the other HTML OS.

            Chuck
          • Frugal
            ... I have already fixed this problem in the CVS version of the PDF outputsheets. The problem was that the ExtraTurning feat increases the
            Message 5 of 14 , Jun 3, 2004
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              <quote who="Chris">
              >> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "blue_seiryu" <blue_seiryu@y...> wrote:
              >> > Anyone know how I can export a cleric with the sun domain into PDF
              >> > without all the extra turning info like turn air/fire/earth/water?
              >> > All I want is turn undead.
              >>
              >> This is a Barak type question. He can probably answer it if anyone
              >> can. Felipe would also be a good person to answer this.
              >>
              >
              > I would be willing to be the cleric has Extra Turning?
              >
              > It's happening because we use the various variables (TurnTimesxxxx,
              > etc.) to toggle the display. The reasoning being, if they exist, you
              > have that type of turning. Extra Turning mucks that up because it
              > grants a bonus to ALL of the various types of turning.
              >
              > There are a couple of ways I can think of to fix it, but both of them
              > will require modifications to the .lst files as well as the OS..
              >
              > a) create a separate "Extra Turning" feat for each type of turning (NOT
              > optimal in my opinion)
              >
              > b) add yet another variable simply to indicate they have x type of
              > turning (this MAY exist, I'm at work so can't actually look at the .lst
              > files and see if it's already there in some form).

              I have already fixed this problem in the CVS version of the PDF
              outputsheets. The problem was that the ExtraTurning feat increases the
              times per day for all turning types, not just ones you already have. and
              as the outputsheet displays a turning block for each turning type you have
              >0 turns per day this means that all of the turning blocks get shown.

              The outputsheet now uses the TurnLevel variable instead of the TurnTimes
              variable to determine if a turning block should be shown.


              --
              regards,
              Frugal
              -OS Chimp
            • Chuck Pint
              While the fixes you note below are in place and working, there is still at least one more outstanding bug in the turning Undead. There is a bug listed under
              Message 6 of 14 , Jun 3, 2004
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                While the fixes you note below are in place and working, there is
                still at least one more outstanding bug in the turning Undead. There
                is a bug listed under OS, that looks to me to really be a data bug.
                That's the synergy bonus of +2 with 5 or more ranks in Knowledge
                (religion) to turning checks. Note that this only applies to turning
                Undead, and not to any other turning type. I don't see this anywhere.

                Chuck


                > It does exist, Barak. It is the TurnTimesXXXX vars. They are done
                with a
                > DEFINE:TurnTimesXXXX|TurnTimesBase statement. Extra Turning feat
                has bonus
                > to TurnTimesBase VAR, so it effects all Turning abilities at the
                same time.
                >
                > So if the TurnTimesXXXX var is defined, they have that ability. If
                it isn't
                > defined, they don't. I was thinking ahead when I designed it....
                That is
                > one of the principle reasons there is a TurnTimesBase VAR..... Doug
                and I
                > had to go around and around to get the complexities in a nice simple
                form
                > that would work in ALL instances, and allow maximum flexibility in
                how users
                > want to use the program. The Matra on the LST Chimp team is
                "Flexibilty,
                > Standardization, Flexibility......" You get picture. One of those
                words
                > usually is what starts our lengthy discussions and the other one
                usually
                > ends it, albeit many hours later.....
                >
                > Tir Gwaith
                > LST Chimp
              • Chris
                ... Not quite true and exactly my point (and the problem). Extra Turning grants +x to ALL of those variables, so after they take Extra Turning, all those
                Message 7 of 14 , Jun 3, 2004
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                  > So if the TurnTimesXXXX var is defined, they have that ability. If
                  > it isn't defined, they don't.

                  Not quite true and exactly my point (and the problem). Extra Turning
                  grants +x to ALL of those variables, so after they take Extra Turning,
                  all those variables do exist (even though a DEFINE has never been used
                  for them), and since the sheets are keyed to operate off of them, all
                  those tables show up.

                  It looks like Frugal has a solution though by simply using one of the
                  other variables (TURNLEVELxxx I think he said in his e-mail), so it's
                  not a real big deal any more. :p

                  It would be nice that if a VAR hadn't been defined it didn't show up
                  even if there was a BONUS:VAR for it... I can think of SEVERAL uses for
                  that.

                  Barak
                • Tir Gwaith
                  in rsrdskills.lst, under Knowledge (Religion): BONUS:VAR|TurnCheckUndead|2|PRESKILL:1,Knowledge (Religion)=5 Only applies to Undead Turn Checks. It is in the
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jun 3, 2004
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                    in rsrdskills.lst, under Knowledge (Religion):
                    BONUS:VAR|TurnCheckUndead|2|PRESKILL:1,Knowledge (Religion)=5

                    Only applies to Undead Turn Checks. It is in the data... Not sure if the
                    OS is grabbing the right VARs if there is an issue there. :)

                    The only outstanding feature not implemented is the fact that the domains
                    that grant "Fire Turning/Water Rebuking" etc, have a combined number of
                    turning attempts instead of tracking each individually. I can't remember if
                    it was Doug or myself that decided that was an enhancement for another
                    time.. Thanks to Devon for finding that though...

                    Tir Gwaith
                    LST Chimp

                    > While the fixes you note below are in place and working, there is
                    > still at least one more outstanding bug in the turning Undead. There
                    > is a bug listed under OS, that looks to me to really be a data bug.
                    > That's the synergy bonus of +2 with 5 or more ranks in Knowledge
                    > (religion) to turning checks. Note that this only applies to turning
                    > Undead, and not to any other turning type. I don't see this anywhere.
                    >
                    > Chuck
                  • Tir Gwaith
                    ... That s BAD... A variable is not supposed to exist unless there is a DEFINE. I ve based a whole lot of logic on that.... Code Bug, perhaps? Tir Gwaith LST
                    Message 9 of 14 , Jun 3, 2004
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                      > > So if the TurnTimesXXXX var is defined, they have that ability. If
                      > > it isn't defined, they don't.
                      >
                      > Not quite true and exactly my point (and the problem). Extra Turning
                      > grants +x to ALL of those variables, so after they take Extra Turning,
                      > all those variables do exist (even though a DEFINE has never been used
                      > for them), and since the sheets are keyed to operate off of them, all
                      > those tables show up.
                      >

                      That's BAD... A variable is not supposed to exist unless there is a DEFINE.
                      I've based a whole lot of logic on that.... Code Bug, perhaps?

                      Tir Gwaith
                      LST Chimp
                    • Chuck Pint
                      Ok, the Knowledge (Religion) does work, I made the mistake of thinking it was the same for 3.0 and 3.5, but only 3.5 actually has that bonus. However, there is
                      Message 10 of 14 , Jun 3, 2004
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                        Ok, the Knowledge (Religion) does work, I made the mistake of thinking
                        it was the same for 3.0 and 3.5, but only 3.5 actually has that bonus.

                        However, there is a problem with the rsrd domains lst file. The Air,
                        Fire, Earth and Water domains do not grant the Turn/Rebuke Feats. Air
                        has a VFEAT (which doesn't work), and the other three have nothing at
                        all. The srd domains lst file is fine.

                        This is going to be important, because the OS team just decided that
                        looking for the feat to turn on a turning block is safer than looking
                        for a variable defined...

                        Chuck

                        --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Tir Gwaith" <thoron-tir-gwaith@l...> wrote:
                        > in rsrdskills.lst, under Knowledge (Religion):
                        > BONUS:VAR|TurnCheckUndead|2|PRESKILL:1,Knowledge (Religion)=5
                        >
                        > Only applies to Undead Turn Checks. It is in the data... Not sure
                        if the
                        > OS is grabbing the right VARs if there is an issue there. :)
                        >
                        > The only outstanding feature not implemented is the fact that the
                        domains
                        > that grant "Fire Turning/Water Rebuking" etc, have a combined number of
                        > turning attempts instead of tracking each individually. I can't
                        remember if
                        > it was Doug or myself that decided that was an enhancement for another
                        > time.. Thanks to Devon for finding that though...
                        >
                        > Tir Gwaith
                        > LST Chimp
                        >
                        > > While the fixes you note below are in place and working, there is
                        > > still at least one more outstanding bug in the turning Undead. There
                        > > is a bug listed under OS, that looks to me to really be a data bug.
                        > > That's the synergy bonus of +2 with 5 or more ranks in Knowledge
                        > > (religion) to turning checks. Note that this only applies to turning
                        > > Undead, and not to any other turning type. I don't see this anywhere.
                        > >
                        > > Chuck
                      • Barak
                        ... I just tested and that is working properly. It works in the xslt sheets and _combined. It doesn t matter at the moment for the _std sheet because the turn
                        Message 11 of 14 , Jun 3, 2004
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                          > -----Original Message-----
                          > From: Tir Gwaith [mailto:thoron-tir-gwaith@...]

                          > Only applies to Undead Turn Checks. It is in the data...
                          > Not sure if the OS is grabbing the right VARs if there is an
                          > issue there. :)

                          I just tested and that is working properly. It works in the xslt sheets and
                          _combined.

                          It doesn't matter at the moment for the _std sheet because the turn check
                          isn't even shown on there, just the level, damage and turns per day ... I'll
                          have to get that sheet updated. :p

                          Barak
                          ~PCGen BoD
                          ~OS Silverback
                        • Barak
                          ... I wasn t sure if that was how it was supposed to operate or not. You re usually fairly careful about sort of thing, so I was wondering about that one. I
                          Message 12 of 14 , Jun 3, 2004
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                            > -----Original Message-----
                            > From: Tir Gwaith [mailto:thoron-tir-gwaith@...]
                            >
                            > > Extra Turning grants +x to ALL of those variables...
                            >
                            > That's BAD... A variable is not supposed to exist unless
                            > there is a DEFINE. I've based a whole lot of logic on
                            > that.... Code Bug, perhaps?

                            I wasn't sure if that was how it was supposed to operate or not. You're
                            usually fairly careful about sort of thing, so I was wondering about that
                            one.

                            I remember a bug (feature?) where if you did a BONUS:VAR|yyy|#, if the yyy
                            wasn't defined you would end up with double that value because it would
                            initialize the variable to that number, and then add it again. :p

                            I would agree that if a VAR hasn't been defined a bonus to it should be
                            ignored and NOT create the variable.

                            Barak
                            ~PCGen BoD
                            ~OS Silverback
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