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Re: [pcgen] Re: [DOCS] new preference entries

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  • Frugal
    ... The SRD says: A wizard begins play with a spellbook containing all 0-level wizard spells(except those from her
    Message 1 of 19 , May 4, 2004
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      <quote who="Sigurdur H. Olafsson">
      > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Eddy Anthony <eddyba@m...> wrote:
      >> On 5/4/04 12:24 AM, "Zevious" <zevious69@c...> wrote:
      >>
      >> > I can only answer one of these: Add stat bonus to spells known.
      >> > This will add your bonus spell stat (CHA for Bard & Sorcerers)
      >> > to the number of spells known at each level in addition to the
      >> > number of spells you can cast. Means people with higher scores
      >> > are even better at being Bards or Sorcerers.
      >> >
      >> Thanks Zev
      >> I figured that¹s what it did but somehow I thought this was
      >> part of the standard rules. Guess not.
      > Bards already get bonus spells to known as per the SRD
      > (srdbasiccharacterclassesi.rtf):
      > TABLE: Bard Spells Known
      > *Provided the bard has sufficient Charisma to have a bonus spell of
      > this level.
      >
      > So this would only apply to Sorcerers (Or what?)

      The SRD says:

      "A wizard begins play with a spellbook containing all 0-level wizard
      spells(except those from her prohibited school or schools, if any; see
      School Specialization, below) plus three 1st-level spellsof your choice.
      For each point of Intelligence bonus the wizard has, the spellbook holds
      one additional 1st-level spell of your choice. At each new wizard level,
      she gains two new spellsof any spell level or levels that she can cast
      (based on her new wizard level) for her spellbook."

      I would assume that this rule means that instead of learning 2 new spells
      per level they learn (intelligence modifier + 2) per level?

      But I do not see how it can be as we do not cap the number of spells a
      wizard can learn...

      So I can only assume that it is for sorcerors who have a fixed number fo
      known spells. So with the rule unchecked a 6th level sorceror with 18 INT
      would have the following number of known spells: 0:7, 1:4+1, 2:2+1, 3:1+1,
      and with the rule checked they would have 0:7+4, 1:4+1+4, 2:2+1+4, 3:1+1+4

      If this interpretation is not correct then we could do with a more
      complete description from someone in the know along with a complete series
      of worked examples...

      --
      regards,
      Frugal
      -OS Chimp
    • Kevin Brown
      ... No, just 2 per level (regardless of Int mod) as it only refers to the Int mod for a 1st level wizard. Though a Wizard can add spells from a large number
      Message 2 of 19 , May 4, 2004
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        >>>>I can only answer one of these: Add stat bonus to spells known.
        >>>>This will add your bonus spell stat (CHA for Bard & Sorcerers)
        >>>>to the number of spells known at each level in addition to the
        >>>>number of spells you can cast. Means people with higher scores
        >>>>are even better at being Bards or Sorcerers.

        >>> I figured that¹s what it did but somehow I thought this was
        >>>part of the standard rules. Guess not.
        >>
        >>Bards already get bonus spells to known as per the SRD
        >>(srdbasiccharacterclassesi.rtf):
        >>TABLE: Bard Spells Known
        >>*Provided the bard has sufficient Charisma to have a bonus spell of
        >>this level.
        >>
        >>So this would only apply to Sorcerers (Or what?)
        >
        >
        > The SRD says:
        >
        > "A wizard begins play with a spellbook containing all 0-level wizard
        > spells(except those from her prohibited school or schools, if any; see
        > School Specialization, below) plus three 1st-level spellsof your choice.
        > For each point of Intelligence bonus the wizard has, the spellbook holds
        > one additional 1st-level spell of your choice. At each new wizard level,
        > she gains two new spellsof any spell level or levels that she can cast
        > (based on her new wizard level) for her spellbook."
        >
        > I would assume that this rule means that instead of learning 2 new spells
        > per level they learn (intelligence modifier + 2) per level?

        No, just 2 per level (regardless of Int mod) as it only refers to the Int mod
        for a 1st level wizard. Though a Wizard can add spells from a large number of
        sources, like scrolls and other Wizards spellbooks and therefore get more than
        the 2 per level.

        > But I do not see how it can be as we do not cap the number of spells a
        > wizard can learn...
        >
        > So I can only assume that it is for sorcerors who have a fixed number fo
        > known spells. So with the rule unchecked a 6th level sorceror with 18 INT
        > would have the following number of known spells: 0:7, 1:4+1, 2:2+1, 3:1+1,
        > and with the rule checked they would have 0:7+4, 1:4+1+4, 2:2+1+4, 3:1+1+4

        Sorcerer like Bard is Charisma based, not Int. Normally a high stat just adds
        to the number of spells a sorcerer can cast in a day, not to the number of
        spells they know overall. This would definitely be a house rule, not a normal
        one as bards and sorcerers, unlike Wizards, don't prepare spells ahead of time
        and so while they have more spell slots, they have fewer spells to choose from
        to cast that day.

        > If this interpretation is not correct then we could do with a more
        > complete description from someone in the know along with a complete series
        > of worked examples...

        I think this house rule makes sorcerers and bards more versatile at lower
        levels, but over powered as they get up into the higher level spells. Even a
        sorcerer with a CHA of 20 doesn't get bonus slots all the way up to 9, whereas
        this house rule lets then gain their CHA bonus worth of spells at each level (so
        upon gaining access to level 9 spells, a sorcerer would suddenly know 5+ instead
        of just 1).
      • Eddy Anthony
        I did some quick experimentation with the program and found this: With the Add stat bonus to spells known checkbox on both the bard and sorcerer are getting
        Message 3 of 19 , May 4, 2004
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          I did some quick experimentation with the program and found this: With the
          Add stat bonus to spells known checkbox on both the bard and sorcerer are
          getting one additional spell known per level past first. This test was done
          with a bard and a sorcerer each 6th level with an 18 CHA.

          It seems this preference is a compromise, with it checked the bard is
          correct per the SRD but the sorcerer knows more then he should (see SRD
          quote below) with it unchecked the opposite is true.

          Is this the case or am I missing something.

          <snip from SRD ClassesII.rtf>
          At each new sorcerer level, he gains one or more new spells, as indicated on
          Table: Sorcerer Spells Known. (Unlike spells per day, the number of spells a
          sorcerer knows is not affected by his Charisma score; the numbers on Table:
          Sorcerer Spells Known are fixed.)
          </snip>

          On 5/4/04 10:41 AM, "Frugal" <frugal@...> wrote:

          > <quote who="Sigurdur H. Olafsson">
          >> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Eddy Anthony <eddyba@m...> wrote:
          >>> On 5/4/04 12:24 AM, "Zevious" <zevious69@c...> wrote:
          >>>
          >>>> I can only answer one of these: Add stat bonus to spells known.
          >>>> This will add your bonus spell stat (CHA for Bard & Sorcerers)
          >>>> to the number of spells known at each level in addition to the
          >>>> number of spells you can cast. Means people with higher scores
          >>>> are even better at being Bards or Sorcerers.
          >>>>
          >>> Thanks Zev
          >>> I figured that¹s what it did but somehow I thought this was
          >>> part of the standard rules. Guess not.
          >> Bards already get bonus spells to known as per the SRD
          >> (srdbasiccharacterclassesi.rtf):
          >> TABLE: Bard Spells Known
          >> *Provided the bard has sufficient Charisma to have a bonus spell of
          >> this level.
          >>
          >> So this would only apply to Sorcerers (Or what?)
          >
          > The SRD says:
          >
          > "A wizard begins play with a spellbook containing all 0-level wizard
          > spells(except those from her prohibited school or schools, if any; see
          > School Specialization, below) plus three 1st-level spellsof your choice.
          > For each point of Intelligence bonus the wizard has, the spellbook holds
          > one additional 1st-level spell of your choice. At each new wizard level,
          > she gains two new spellsof any spell level or levels that she can cast
          > (based on her new wizard level) for her spellbook."
          >
          > I would assume that this rule means that instead of learning 2 new spells
          > per level they learn (intelligence modifier + 2) per level?
          >
          > But I do not see how it can be as we do not cap the number of spells a
          > wizard can learn...
          >
          > So I can only assume that it is for sorcerors who have a fixed number fo
          > known spells. So with the rule unchecked a 6th level sorceror with 18 INT
          > would have the following number of known spells: 0:7, 1:4+1, 2:2+1, 3:1+1,
          > and with the rule checked they would have 0:7+4, 1:4+1+4, 2:2+1+4, 3:1+1+4
          >
          > If this interpretation is not correct then we could do with a more
          > complete description from someone in the know along with a complete series
          > of worked examples...

          --
          ~ Eddy
          ~ Doc Chimp, Data Tamarin
          ~ PCGen BoD Documentation Second
        • Benjamin Pew
          I think there s been a misunderstanding in these emails regarding the bard. Bards do not gain bonus spells known for high ability score according to the normal
          Message 4 of 19 , May 4, 2004
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            I think there's been a misunderstanding in these emails regarding the bard.
            Bards do not gain bonus spells known for high ability score according to the
            normal rules. It seems to be a lot more vague in the SRD, but the following
            text from the RSRD is also in the 3.0 Player's Handbook: "(Unlike spells per
            day, the number of spells a bard knows is not affected by his Charisma
            score; the numbers on Table: Bard Spells Known are fixed.)"

            The reference on the spells known chart to only knowing spells if he has a
            high enough Charisma to have a bonus spell of this level is based on the
            fact that at many levels, the bard can cast 0 spells of a given level, which
            means he can only cast spells of that level if he has a high enough Charisma
            to gain a bonus spell of that level. If he does, then he knows spells of
            that level. If he can't cast spells at that level yet, then he doesn't know
            any (not that it really matters, since he can't cast them even if he does
            know them).

            Bards and Sorcerers are not different in this respect.

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Eddy Anthony [mailto:eddyba@...]
            Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 10:43 AM
            To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [pcgen] Re: [DOCS] new preference entries


            I did some quick experimentation with the program and found this: With the
            Add stat bonus to spells known checkbox on both the bard and sorcerer are
            getting one additional spell known per level past first. This test was done
            with a bard and a sorcerer each 6th level with an 18 CHA.

            It seems this preference is a compromise, with it checked the bard is
            correct per the SRD but the sorcerer knows more then he should (see SRD
            quote below) with it unchecked the opposite is true.

            Is this the case or am I missing something.

            <snip from SRD ClassesII.rtf>
            At each new sorcerer level, he gains one or more new spells, as indicated on
            Table: Sorcerer Spells Known. (Unlike spells per day, the number of spells a
            sorcerer knows is not affected by his Charisma score; the numbers on Table:
            Sorcerer Spells Known are fixed.)
            </snip>

            On 5/4/04 10:41 AM, "Frugal" <frugal@...> wrote:

            > <quote who="Sigurdur H. Olafsson">
            >> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Eddy Anthony <eddyba@m...> wrote:
            >>> On 5/4/04 12:24 AM, "Zevious" <zevious69@c...> wrote:
            >>>
            >>>> I can only answer one of these: Add stat bonus to spells known.
            >>>> This will add your bonus spell stat (CHA for Bard & Sorcerers)
            >>>> to the number of spells known at each level in addition to the
            >>>> number of spells you can cast. Means people with higher scores
            >>>> are even better at being Bards or Sorcerers.
            >>>>
            >>> Thanks Zev
            >>> I figured that¹s what it did but somehow I thought this was
            >>> part of the standard rules. Guess not.
            >> Bards already get bonus spells to known as per the SRD
            >> (srdbasiccharacterclassesi.rtf):
            >> TABLE: Bard Spells Known
            >> *Provided the bard has sufficient Charisma to have a bonus spell of
            >> this level.
            >>
            >> So this would only apply to Sorcerers (Or what?)
            >
            > The SRD says:
            >
            > "A wizard begins play with a spellbook containing all 0-level wizard
            > spells(except those from her prohibited school or schools, if any; see
            > School Specialization, below) plus three 1st-level spellsof your choice.
            > For each point of Intelligence bonus the wizard has, the spellbook holds
            > one additional 1st-level spell of your choice. At each new wizard level,
            > she gains two new spellsof any spell level or levels that she can cast
            > (based on her new wizard level) for her spellbook."
            >
            > I would assume that this rule means that instead of learning 2 new spells
            > per level they learn (intelligence modifier + 2) per level?
            >
            > But I do not see how it can be as we do not cap the number of spells a
            > wizard can learn...
            >
            > So I can only assume that it is for sorcerors who have a fixed number fo
            > known spells. So with the rule unchecked a 6th level sorceror with 18 INT
            > would have the following number of known spells: 0:7, 1:4+1, 2:2+1, 3:1+1,
            > and with the rule checked they would have 0:7+4, 1:4+1+4, 2:2+1+4, 3:1+1+4
            >
            > If this interpretation is not correct then we could do with a more
            > complete description from someone in the know along with a complete series
            > of worked examples...

            --
            ~ Eddy
            ~ Doc Chimp, Data Tamarin
            ~ PCGen BoD Documentation Second



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          • Eddy Anthony
            Thanks for clearing that up, I looked again and that is indeed in the revised SRD as well. So what this rule does is grant a single bonus spell known per level
            Message 5 of 19 , May 4, 2004
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              Thanks for clearing that up, I looked again and that is indeed in the
              revised SRD as well.

              So what this rule does is grant a single bonus spell known per level above
              zero to classes that grant a limited number of spells know (such as bards
              and sorcerers). Does this sound right?

              My next question is what are the details of this bonus, how high does the
              stat have to be? Is it just one spell or can there be more with a higher
              charisma. Is the bonus spell based on having a stat high enough to cast at a
              certain level?

              On 5/4/04 12:23 PM, "Benjamin Pew" <benpew@...> wrote:

              > I think there's been a misunderstanding in these emails regarding the bard.
              > Bards do not gain bonus spells known for high ability score according to the
              > normal rules. It seems to be a lot more vague in the SRD, but the following
              > text from the RSRD is also in the 3.0 Player's Handbook: "(Unlike spells per
              > day, the number of spells a bard knows is not affected by his Charisma
              > score; the numbers on Table: Bard Spells Known are fixed.)"
              >
              > The reference on the spells known chart to only knowing spells if he has a
              > high enough Charisma to have a bonus spell of this level is based on the
              > fact that at many levels, the bard can cast 0 spells of a given level, which
              > means he can only cast spells of that level if he has a high enough Charisma
              > to gain a bonus spell of that level. If he does, then he knows spells of
              > that level. If he can't cast spells at that level yet, then he doesn't know
              > any (not that it really matters, since he can't cast them even if he does
              > know them).
              >
              > Bards and Sorcerers are not different in this respect.
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: Eddy Anthony [mailto:eddyba@...]
              > Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 10:43 AM
              > To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: Re: [pcgen] Re: [DOCS] new preference entries
              >
              >
              > I did some quick experimentation with the program and found this: With the
              > Add stat bonus to spells known checkbox on both the bard and sorcerer are
              > getting one additional spell known per level past first. This test was done
              > with a bard and a sorcerer each 6th level with an 18 CHA.
              >
              > It seems this preference is a compromise, with it checked the bard is
              > correct per the SRD but the sorcerer knows more then he should (see SRD
              > quote below) with it unchecked the opposite is true.
              >
              > Is this the case or am I missing something.
              >
              > <snip from SRD ClassesII.rtf>
              > At each new sorcerer level, he gains one or more new spells, as indicated on
              > Table: Sorcerer Spells Known. (Unlike spells per day, the number of spells a
              > sorcerer knows is not affected by his Charisma score; the numbers on Table:
              > Sorcerer Spells Known are fixed.)
              > </snip>
              >
              > On 5/4/04 10:41 AM, "Frugal" <frugal@...> wrote:
              >
              >> <quote who="Sigurdur H. Olafsson">
              >>> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Eddy Anthony <eddyba@m...> wrote:
              >>>> On 5/4/04 12:24 AM, "Zevious" <zevious69@c...> wrote:
              >>>>
              >>>>> I can only answer one of these: Add stat bonus to spells known.
              >>>>> This will add your bonus spell stat (CHA for Bard & Sorcerers)
              >>>>> to the number of spells known at each level in addition to the
              >>>>> number of spells you can cast. Means people with higher scores
              >>>>> are even better at being Bards or Sorcerers.
              >>>>>
              >>>> Thanks Zev
              >>>> I figured that¹s what it did but somehow I thought this was
              >>>> part of the standard rules. Guess not.
              >>> Bards already get bonus spells to known as per the SRD
              >>> (srdbasiccharacterclassesi.rtf):
              >>> TABLE: Bard Spells Known
              >>> *Provided the bard has sufficient Charisma to have a bonus spell of
              >>> this level.
              >>>
              >>> So this would only apply to Sorcerers (Or what?)
              >>
              >> The SRD says:
              >>
              >> "A wizard begins play with a spellbook containing all 0-level wizard
              >> spells(except those from her prohibited school or schools, if any; see
              >> School Specialization, below) plus three 1st-level spellsof your choice.
              >> For each point of Intelligence bonus the wizard has, the spellbook holds
              >> one additional 1st-level spell of your choice. At each new wizard level,
              >> she gains two new spellsof any spell level or levels that she can cast
              >> (based on her new wizard level) for her spellbook."
              >>
              >> I would assume that this rule means that instead of learning 2 new spells
              >> per level they learn (intelligence modifier + 2) per level?
              >>
              >> But I do not see how it can be as we do not cap the number of spells a
              >> wizard can learn...
              >>
              >> So I can only assume that it is for sorcerors who have a fixed number fo
              >> known spells. So with the rule unchecked a 6th level sorceror with 18 INT
              >> would have the following number of known spells: 0:7, 1:4+1, 2:2+1, 3:1+1,
              >> and with the rule checked they would have 0:7+4, 1:4+1+4, 2:2+1+4, 3:1+1+4
              >>
              >> If this interpretation is not correct then we could do with a more
              >> complete description from someone in the know along with a complete series
              >> of worked examples...

              --
              ~ Eddy
              ~ Doc Chimp, Data Tamarin
              ~ PCGen BoD Documentation Second
            • Zevious
              My understanding as to what it SHOULD be doing is using the bonus spells chart to add to KNOWN spells in addition to cast spells. The spells known charts for
              Message 6 of 19 , May 4, 2004
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                My understanding as to what it SHOULD be doing is using the bonus spells
                chart to add to KNOWN spells in addition to cast spells. The spells
                known charts for both Bard and Sorcerer are WITHOUT this bonus. The * in
                the known spells chart means that they only know spells of that level if
                their CHA is high enough to get them bonus spells cast of that level
                (since the spells/day chart has a 0 for that spell level).

                I had thought that getting bonus known spells from the spell stat was a
                published OPTIONAL rule in the PHB, but I just did a quick check of both
                the 3.0 and 3.5 PHB and could not find it, so I could be wrong there.
                Probably published in something like UA or maybe Tome & Blood. Not sure,
                but it's moot for this discussion anyway. :)

                What should happen as I understand it:

                10th level Bard, CHA 20 (That'd be mine)
                Without check - Known: 4 1st level, 4 each of 2nd & 3rd, and 2 4th level
                (since his CHA gives him a bonus 4th level spell, he gets to know 2 of
                them. If he only had a 17 CHA or lower, he would not have the bonus cast
                spell for 4th level so would not know any of them either).
                WITH check - Known: 6 1st level, 5 each of 2nd & 3rd, and 3 4th level.

                The DM that I'm playing the above bard in does allow this optional rule
                and my character sheet prints out correctly with the above numbers (6,
                5, 5, & 3).


                Zev

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Eddy Anthony [mailto:eddyba@...]
                Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 9:46 AM
                To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [pcgen] Re: [DOCS] new preference entries


                Thanks for clearing that up, I looked again and that is indeed in the
                revised SRD as well.

                So what this rule does is grant a single bonus spell known per level
                above
                zero to classes that grant a limited number of spells know (such as
                bards
                and sorcerers). Does this sound right?

                My next question is what are the details of this bonus, how high does
                the
                stat have to be? Is it just one spell or can there be more with a higher
                charisma. Is the bonus spell based on having a stat high enough to cast
                at a
                certain level?

                On 5/4/04 12:23 PM, "Benjamin Pew" <benpew@...> wrote:

                > I think there's been a misunderstanding in these emails regarding the
                bard.
                > Bards do not gain bonus spells known for high ability score according
                to the
                > normal rules. It seems to be a lot more vague in the SRD, but the
                following
                > text from the RSRD is also in the 3.0 Player's Handbook: "(Unlike
                spells per
                > day, the number of spells a bard knows is not affected by his Charisma
                > score; the numbers on Table: Bard Spells Known are fixed.)"
                >
                > The reference on the spells known chart to only knowing spells if he
                has a
                > high enough Charisma to have a bonus spell of this level is based on
                the
                > fact that at many levels, the bard can cast 0 spells of a given level,
                which
                > means he can only cast spells of that level if he has a high enough
                Charisma
                > to gain a bonus spell of that level. If he does, then he knows spells
                of
                > that level. If he can't cast spells at that level yet, then he doesn't
                know
                > any (not that it really matters, since he can't cast them even if he
                does
                > know them).
                >
                > Bards and Sorcerers are not different in this respect.
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: Eddy Anthony [mailto:eddyba@...]
                > Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 10:43 AM
                > To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: Re: [pcgen] Re: [DOCS] new preference entries
                >
                >
                > I did some quick experimentation with the program and found this: With
                the
                > Add stat bonus to spells known checkbox on both the bard and sorcerer
                are
                > getting one additional spell known per level past first. This test was
                done
                > with a bard and a sorcerer each 6th level with an 18 CHA.
                >
                > It seems this preference is a compromise, with it checked the bard is
                > correct per the SRD but the sorcerer knows more then he should (see
                SRD
                > quote below) with it unchecked the opposite is true.
                >
                > Is this the case or am I missing something.
                >
                > <snip from SRD ClassesII.rtf>
                > At each new sorcerer level, he gains one or more new spells, as
                indicated on
                > Table: Sorcerer Spells Known. (Unlike spells per day, the number of
                spells a
                > sorcerer knows is not affected by his Charisma score; the numbers on
                Table:
                > Sorcerer Spells Known are fixed.)
                > </snip>
                >
                > On 5/4/04 10:41 AM, "Frugal" <frugal@...> wrote:
                >
                >> <quote who="Sigurdur H. Olafsson">
                >>> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Eddy Anthony <eddyba@m...> wrote:
                >>>> On 5/4/04 12:24 AM, "Zevious" <zevious69@c...> wrote:
                >>>>
                >>>>> I can only answer one of these: Add stat bonus to spells known.
                >>>>> This will add your bonus spell stat (CHA for Bard & Sorcerers)
                >>>>> to the number of spells known at each level in addition to the
                >>>>> number of spells you can cast. Means people with higher scores
                >>>>> are even better at being Bards or Sorcerers.
                >>>>>
                >>>> Thanks Zev
                >>>> I figured that¹s what it did but somehow I thought this was
                >>>> part of the standard rules. Guess not.
                >>> Bards already get bonus spells to known as per the SRD
                >>> (srdbasiccharacterclassesi.rtf):
                >>> TABLE: Bard Spells Known
                >>> *Provided the bard has sufficient Charisma to have a bonus spell of
                >>> this level.
                >>>
                >>> So this would only apply to Sorcerers (Or what?)
                >>
                >> The SRD says:
                >>
                >> "A wizard begins play with a spellbook containing all 0-level wizard
                >> spells(except those from her prohibited school or schools, if any;
                see
                >> School Specialization, below) plus three 1st-level spellsof your
                choice.
                >> For each point of Intelligence bonus the wizard has, the spellbook
                holds
                >> one additional 1st-level spell of your choice. At each new wizard
                level,
                >> she gains two new spellsof any spell level or levels that she can
                cast
                >> (based on her new wizard level) for her spellbook."
                >>
                >> I would assume that this rule means that instead of learning 2 new
                spells
                >> per level they learn (intelligence modifier + 2) per level?
                >>
                >> But I do not see how it can be as we do not cap the number of spells
                a
                >> wizard can learn...
                >>
                >> So I can only assume that it is for sorcerors who have a fixed number
                fo
                >> known spells. So with the rule unchecked a 6th level sorceror with 18
                INT
                >> would have the following number of known spells: 0:7, 1:4+1, 2:2+1,
                3:1+1,
                >> and with the rule checked they would have 0:7+4, 1:4+1+4, 2:2+1+4,
                3:1+1+4
                >>
                >> If this interpretation is not correct then we could do with a more
                >> complete description from someone in the know along with a complete
                series
                >> of worked examples...

                --
                ~ Eddy
                ~ Doc Chimp, Data Tamarin
                ~ PCGen BoD Documentation Second



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                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Paul Grosse
                What does Display Feat Description do. Does this relate to GUI display or output? I was unable to find any function when I experimented with it. PG:
                Message 7 of 19 , May 4, 2004
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                  </snip>
                  What does 'Display Feat Description' do. Does this relate to GUI
                  display or output? I was unable to find any function when I experimented
                  with it.

                  PG: The default DESC is "See Text", per the agreement with WotC PCGen is
                  allowed to use the one line descriptions in the feat table as the
                  descriptions. It's under "rsrd_feats_descriptions.lst" and it mods the
                  feats in "rsrd_feats.lst" to have the one line desc from the PHB.

                  What does 'Use expert GUI settings' do?

                  PG: No idea :)

                  In the Character Menu under House Rules.

                  What does 'Add stat bonus to spells known' do? This defaults to off,
                  is this not part of the regular rules? (forgive me I don't have the
                  books here at work).

                  PG: Yes everyone already covered this. It adds to KNOWN spells for bards
                  and Sorc using the ability bonus chart

                  Weapon catagories, what specifically does this do? Is there any
                  reason you would want to set it to 3.0 if you are using 3.5 gamemode?
                  What are the implications of setting the wrong Weapon category?

                  PG: I believe this is for those DM's that didn't like the 3.5 weapon
                  changes. I know many didn't care for them

                  And finally the million dollar question:

                  What does the 'Allow any range for ability scores' checkbox do?

                  PG: This allows for ability scores below 8 and above 18, specifically
                  using the optional Point Buy system

                  Thanks.
                  --
                  ~ Eddy
                  ~ Doc Chimp, Data Tamarin
                  ~ PCGen BoD Documentation Second
                  </snip>

                  There ya go Eddy :)

                  Paul "Yes that Paul" Grosse
                  PCGen OGL Chimp & LST Lemur-in-training
                  ICQ: 14397299
                  AO: Nylan
                  Various forums: Nylan (or Nylanfs)

                  "The Earth is just too small and fragile a basket for the human race to
                  keep all it's eggs in." - Robert Heinlein
                • Eddy Anthony
                  Thanks for everyone s input, I think we ve got answers to all but one of the entries. Here s the text I ll put in the docs, any suggestions for clarity,
                  Message 8 of 19 , May 4, 2004
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                    Thanks for everyone's input, I think we've got answers to all but one of the
                    entries. Here's the text I'll put in the docs, any suggestions for clarity,
                    spelling, rules, etc are appreciated.
                    ________________________________________________

                    > In the Appearence menu, under Display Options.
                    > 'Display Feat Description'

                    This option will allow PCGen to display the description included with the
                    feat rather than "See text".

                    > In the Character Menu under House Rules.
                    > 'Add stat bonus to spells known'

                    This option will add to a characters number of spells known using the
                    Table:Ability Modifiers and Bonus Spells. Normally characters with a limited
                    number of spells known such as Bards and Sorcerers do not get bonus spells
                    known due to high ability scores.

                    > Weapon catagories

                    The 3.5 revision of the rules changed the way weapon sizes were handled
                    within the game. This option allows the user to choose which version of the
                    rules to use within PCGen.

                    > 'Allow any range for ability scores'

                    This allows for ability scores below 8 and above 18, specifically
                    using the optional Point Buy system. Unchecked one cannot create a point buy
                    method outside the ranges of 8 and 18. Please note that you must check this
                    box, close the preferences and open them back up again before you can create
                    a point buy method of any range.

                    (Thanks Paul (Yes that Paul), this one was quite difficult to nail down)

                    > In the Appearence menu, under Display Options.
                    > What does 'Use expert GUI settings' do?

                    Still don't know what this does.

                    --
                    ~ Eddy
                    ~ Doc Chimp, Data Tamarin
                    ~ PCGen BoD Documentation Second
                  • Frugal
                    ... This really needs to be renamed, as it stands it reads as though it will add the stat modifier, whereas what it actually does is
                    Message 9 of 19 , May 5, 2004
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                      <quote who="Paul Grosse">

                      > What does 'Add stat bonus to spells known' do? This defaults to off,
                      > is this not part of the regular rules? (forgive me I don't have the
                      > books here at work).
                      >
                      > PG: Yes everyone already covered this. It adds to KNOWN spells for bards
                      > and Sorc using the ability bonus chart

                      This really needs to be renamed, as it stands it reads as though it will
                      add the stat modifier, whereas what it actually does is use teh stat
                      modifier to calculate the number of bonus spells.

                      How about something like "Use Stat modifier to caclulate bonus known spells"?

                      > What does the 'Allow any range for ability scores' checkbox do?
                      >
                      > PG: This allows for ability scores below 8 and above 18, specifically
                      > using the optional Point Buy system

                      Again, this could do with being re-worded to reflect the fact that it only
                      affects the point buy system: 'Allow any range for ability scores in
                      point-buy'

                      --
                      regards,
                      Frugal
                      -OS Chimp
                    • Seb
                      I don t get it. The point-buy system use the system pointbuymethods*.lst files. If abilities below 8 or above 18 are not in this file, how can pcgen knows the
                      Message 10 of 19 , May 5, 2004
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                        I don't get it. The point-buy system use the
                        system\pointbuymethods*.lst files. If abilities below 8 or above 18
                        are not in this file, how can pcgen knows the cost ?
                        So I guess you have to fill this file with abilities below 8 and/or
                        above 18.
                        Isn't it redondant to have this checkbox ? If abilities outside the
                        standart range are in the pointbuymethods file then allows it, if not
                        don't.

                        --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Grosse" <paul.grosse@m...> wrote:
                        >
                        > What does the 'Allow any range for ability scores' checkbox do?
                        >
                        > PG: This allows for ability scores below 8 and above 18,
                        specifically
                        > using the optional Point Buy system
                      • Sigurdur H. Olafsson
                        ... Normally PCGen will remind you if you try to create a New character without any sources loaded, to load sources. When this is checked it will just grey
                        Message 11 of 19 , May 5, 2004
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                          --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Eddy Anthony <eddyba@m...> wrote:
                          > What does 'Use expert GUI settings' do?

                          Normally PCGen will remind you if you try to create a "New"
                          character without any sources loaded, to load sources.

                          When this is checked it will just grey out the File-New option and
                          the "New" Toolbar icon.
                          (Presumably this was changed this way because newbies were always
                          asking here why they could not create new characters)

                          The code monkeys involved (Jamey, If I am not mistaken) would know
                          if there is more to it. I suggest you send him a private mail since
                          I have not seen him here for a while.

                          Siggy - Doc Chimp
                        • Eddy Anthony
                          Heres the deal: if the point buy system does not spec abilities below 8 or above 18 you cannot have them checked or not. What the checkbox does is allow you to
                          Message 12 of 19 , May 5, 2004
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                            Heres the deal: if the point buy system does not spec abilities below 8 or
                            above 18 you cannot have them checked or not. What the checkbox does is
                            allow you to create or modify a point buy method to have abilities outside
                            that range. So it has little to do with using point buy methods and more to
                            do with editing them.

                            On 5/5/04 4:31 AM, "Seb" <sebastien.peslin@...> wrote:

                            > I don't get it. The point-buy system use the
                            > system\pointbuymethods*.lst files. If abilities below 8 or above 18
                            > are not in this file, how can pcgen knows the cost ?
                            > So I guess you have to fill this file with abilities below 8 and/or
                            > above 18.
                            > Isn't it redondant to have this checkbox ? If abilities outside the
                            > standart range are in the pointbuymethods file then allows it, if not
                            > don't.
                            >
                            > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Grosse" <paul.grosse@m...> wrote:
                            >>
                            >> What does the 'Allow any range for ability scores' checkbox do?
                            >>
                            >> PG: This allows for ability scores below 8 and above 18,
                            > specifically
                            >> using the optional Point Buy system

                            --
                            ~ Eddy
                            ~ Doc Chimp, Data Tamarin
                            ~ PCGen BoD Documentation Second
                          • Emily Smirle
                            ... There are a few other features, they re along the same lines. Stuff like adding your first character level, it asks if your stats are set the way you want
                            Message 13 of 19 , May 7, 2004
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                              Sigurdur H. Olafsson wrote:

                              >--- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Eddy Anthony <eddyba@m...> wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              >> What does 'Use expert GUI settings' do?
                              >>
                              >>
                              >
                              >Normally PCGen will remind you if you try to create a "New"
                              >character without any sources loaded, to load sources.
                              >
                              >When this is checked it will just grey out the File-New option and
                              >the "New" Toolbar icon.
                              >(Presumably this was changed this way because newbies were always
                              >asking here why they could not create new characters)
                              >
                              >The code monkeys involved (Jamey, If I am not mistaken) would know
                              >if there is more to it. I suggest you send him a private mail since
                              >I have not seen him here for a while.
                              >
                              >
                              There are a few other features, they're along the same lines. Stuff like
                              adding your first character level, it asks if your stats are set the way
                              you want them. Things like that.

                              Every time we get a rash of questions about something in the GUI, and a
                              bunch of old wrinkly PCGeners explaining why things are the way they
                              are, we change the GUI so people stop asking questions, and implement
                              the "Better" way as an "expert" setting so us wrinklies don't have to
                              put up with popups.

                              --
                              Soylant Clear: Clearly less people, Clearly less fat.
                            • Emily Smirle
                              ... That s it in a nutshell. This originally came from discussion over a few feats from the Netbook of Feats, as well as a house rule used in the campeign I
                              Message 14 of 19 , May 7, 2004
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                                Zevious wrote:

                                > What should happen as I understand it:
                                >
                                >10th level Bard, CHA 20 (That'd be mine)
                                >Without check - Known: 4 1st level, 4 each of 2nd & 3rd, and 2 4th level
                                >(since his CHA gives him a bonus 4th level spell, he gets to know 2 of
                                >them. If he only had a 17 CHA or lower, he would not have the bonus cast
                                >spell for 4th level so would not know any of them either).
                                >WITH check - Known: 6 1st level, 5 each of 2nd & 3rd, and 3 4th level.
                                >
                                >The DM that I'm playing the above bard in does allow this optional rule
                                >and my character sheet prints out correctly with the above numbers (6,
                                >5, 5, & 3).
                                >
                                >

                                That's it in a nutshell. This originally came from discussion over a few
                                feats from the Netbook of Feats, as well as a house rule used in the
                                campeign I was in a year or two ago.

                                --
                                Soylant Clear: Clearly less people, Clearly less fat.
                              • Emily Smirle
                                ... Text in this case refers to Bonus Spell(s) Cast (Per Day), not Bonus Spells Known. So, number of times he can *cast* spells of the given level, not what
                                Message 15 of 19 , May 7, 2004
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                                  Sigurdur H. Olafsson wrote:

                                  >Bards already get bonus spells to known as per the SRD
                                  >(srdbasiccharacterclassesi.rtf):
                                  >TABLE: Bard Spells Known
                                  >*Provided the bard has sufficient Charisma to have a bonus spell of
                                  >this level.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  Text in this case refers to Bonus Spell(s) Cast (Per Day), not Bonus
                                  Spells Known. So, number of times he can *cast* spells of the given
                                  level, not what variety of spells of that level he can cast. If that
                                  helps clear things up.

                                  >So this would only apply to Sorcerers (Or what?)
                                  >
                                  >
                                  No, both of them. And to 3.5 psionic wariors, and probably a bunch of
                                  prestige classes. It doesn't apply to Clerics and Druids, because they
                                  each know *all* spells of a level they can cast, they just don't have
                                  the religious authority to request them from the relevant deity. Ditto
                                  Paladins, Rangers and blackguards. Assasins learn spells like
                                  fancy-dressed wizards, but the Mystic Theurge learns like a sorcerer,
                                  IIRC. Or can, at any rate.


                                  --
                                  Soylant Clear: Clearly less people, Clearly less fat.
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