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[DOCS] new preference entries

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  • Eddy Anthony
    In updating the pages concerning preferences we have run across a few things to which it was not immediately obvious as to the purpose. If any Code Monkey or
    Message 1 of 19 , May 3, 2004
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      In updating the pages concerning preferences we have run across a few things
      to which it was not immediately obvious as to the purpose. If any Code
      Monkey or other knowledgeable person can shed light on these items we would
      much appreciate it.

      In the Appearence menu, under Display Options.

      What does 'Display Feat Description' do. Does this relate to GUI display
      or output? I was unable to find any function when I experimented with it.

      What does 'Use expert GUI settings' do?

      In the Character Menu under House Rules.

      What does 'Add stat bonus to spells known' do? This defaults to off, is
      this not part of the regular rules? (forgive me I don't have the books here
      at work).

      Weapon catagories, what specifically does this do? Is there any reason
      you would want to set it to 3.0 if you are using 3.5 gamemode? What are the
      implications of setting the wrong Weapon category?

      And finally the million dollar question:

      What does the 'Allow any range for ability scores' checkbox do?

      Thanks.
      --
      ~ Eddy
      ~ Doc Chimp, Data Tamarin
      ~ PCGen BoD Documentation Second
    • Zevious
      I can only answer one of these: Add stat bonus to spells known. This will add your bonus spell stat (CHA for Bard & Sorcerers) to the number of spells known at
      Message 2 of 19 , May 3, 2004
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        I can only answer one of these: Add stat bonus to spells known. This
        will add your bonus spell stat (CHA for Bard & Sorcerers) to the number
        of spells known at each level in addition to the number of spells you
        can cast. Means people with higher scores are even better at being Bards
        or Sorcerers.

        Zev

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Eddy Anthony [mailto:eddyba@...]
        Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 2:04 PM
        To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [pcgen] [DOCS] new preference entries


        In updating the pages concerning preferences we have run across a few
        things
        to which it was not immediately obvious as to the purpose. If any Code
        Monkey or other knowledgeable person can shed light on these items we
        would
        much appreciate it.

        In the Appearence menu, under Display Options.

        What does 'Display Feat Description' do. Does this relate to GUI
        display
        or output? I was unable to find any function when I experimented with
        it.

        What does 'Use expert GUI settings' do?

        In the Character Menu under House Rules.

        What does 'Add stat bonus to spells known' do? This defaults to off,
        is
        this not part of the regular rules? (forgive me I don't have the books
        here
        at work).

        Weapon catagories, what specifically does this do? Is there any
        reason
        you would want to set it to 3.0 if you are using 3.5 gamemode? What are
        the
        implications of setting the wrong Weapon category?

        And finally the million dollar question:

        What does the 'Allow any range for ability scores' checkbox do?

        Thanks.
        --
        ~ Eddy
        ~ Doc Chimp, Data Tamarin
        ~ PCGen BoD Documentation Second



        PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
        PCGen's alpha build: http://rpg.plambert.net/pcgen
        PCGen's FAQ:
        http://rpg.plambert.net/pcgen/current/_docs/



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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Eddy Anthony
        ... Thanks Zev I figured that¹s what it did but somehow I thought this was part of the standard rules. Guess not. -- ~ Eddy ~ Doc Chimp, Data Tamarin ~ PCGen
        Message 3 of 19 , May 4, 2004
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          On 5/4/04 12:24 AM, "Zevious" <zevious69@...> wrote:

          > I can only answer one of these: Add stat bonus to spells known. This
          > will add your bonus spell stat (CHA for Bard & Sorcerers) to the number
          > of spells known at each level in addition to the number of spells you
          > can cast. Means people with higher scores are even better at being Bards
          > or Sorcerers.
          >
          > Zev

          Thanks Zev
          I figured that¹s what it did but somehow I thought this was part of the
          standard rules. Guess not.

          --
          ~ Eddy
          ~ Doc Chimp, Data Tamarin
          ~ PCGen BoD Documentation Second
        • Sigurdur H. Olafsson
          Bards already get bonus spells to known as per the SRD (srdbasiccharacterclassesi.rtf): TABLE: Bard Spells Known *Provided the bard has sufficient Charisma to
          Message 4 of 19 , May 4, 2004
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            Bards already get bonus spells to known as per the SRD
            (srdbasiccharacterclassesi.rtf):
            TABLE: Bard Spells Known
            *Provided the bard has sufficient Charisma to have a bonus spell of
            this level.

            So this would only apply to Sorcerers (Or what?)

            Siggi - Doc Chimp

            --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Eddy Anthony <eddyba@m...> wrote:
            > On 5/4/04 12:24 AM, "Zevious" <zevious69@c...> wrote:
            >
            > > I can only answer one of these: Add stat bonus to spells known.
            > > This will add your bonus spell stat (CHA for Bard & Sorcerers)
            > > to the number of spells known at each level in addition to the
            > > number of spells you can cast. Means people with higher scores
            > > are even better at being Bards or Sorcerers.
            > >
            > > Zev
            >
            > Thanks Zev
            > I figured that¹s what it did but somehow I thought this was
            > part of the standard rules. Guess not.
            >
            > --
            > ~ Eddy
            > ~ Doc Chimp, Data Tamarin
            > ~ PCGen BoD Documentation Second
          • Frugal
            ... The SRD says: A wizard begins play with a spellbook containing all 0-level wizard spells(except those from her
            Message 5 of 19 , May 4, 2004
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              <quote who="Sigurdur H. Olafsson">
              > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Eddy Anthony <eddyba@m...> wrote:
              >> On 5/4/04 12:24 AM, "Zevious" <zevious69@c...> wrote:
              >>
              >> > I can only answer one of these: Add stat bonus to spells known.
              >> > This will add your bonus spell stat (CHA for Bard & Sorcerers)
              >> > to the number of spells known at each level in addition to the
              >> > number of spells you can cast. Means people with higher scores
              >> > are even better at being Bards or Sorcerers.
              >> >
              >> Thanks Zev
              >> I figured that¹s what it did but somehow I thought this was
              >> part of the standard rules. Guess not.
              > Bards already get bonus spells to known as per the SRD
              > (srdbasiccharacterclassesi.rtf):
              > TABLE: Bard Spells Known
              > *Provided the bard has sufficient Charisma to have a bonus spell of
              > this level.
              >
              > So this would only apply to Sorcerers (Or what?)

              The SRD says:

              "A wizard begins play with a spellbook containing all 0-level wizard
              spells(except those from her prohibited school or schools, if any; see
              School Specialization, below) plus three 1st-level spellsof your choice.
              For each point of Intelligence bonus the wizard has, the spellbook holds
              one additional 1st-level spell of your choice. At each new wizard level,
              she gains two new spellsof any spell level or levels that she can cast
              (based on her new wizard level) for her spellbook."

              I would assume that this rule means that instead of learning 2 new spells
              per level they learn (intelligence modifier + 2) per level?

              But I do not see how it can be as we do not cap the number of spells a
              wizard can learn...

              So I can only assume that it is for sorcerors who have a fixed number fo
              known spells. So with the rule unchecked a 6th level sorceror with 18 INT
              would have the following number of known spells: 0:7, 1:4+1, 2:2+1, 3:1+1,
              and with the rule checked they would have 0:7+4, 1:4+1+4, 2:2+1+4, 3:1+1+4

              If this interpretation is not correct then we could do with a more
              complete description from someone in the know along with a complete series
              of worked examples...

              --
              regards,
              Frugal
              -OS Chimp
            • Kevin Brown
              ... No, just 2 per level (regardless of Int mod) as it only refers to the Int mod for a 1st level wizard. Though a Wizard can add spells from a large number
              Message 6 of 19 , May 4, 2004
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                >>>>I can only answer one of these: Add stat bonus to spells known.
                >>>>This will add your bonus spell stat (CHA for Bard & Sorcerers)
                >>>>to the number of spells known at each level in addition to the
                >>>>number of spells you can cast. Means people with higher scores
                >>>>are even better at being Bards or Sorcerers.

                >>> I figured that¹s what it did but somehow I thought this was
                >>>part of the standard rules. Guess not.
                >>
                >>Bards already get bonus spells to known as per the SRD
                >>(srdbasiccharacterclassesi.rtf):
                >>TABLE: Bard Spells Known
                >>*Provided the bard has sufficient Charisma to have a bonus spell of
                >>this level.
                >>
                >>So this would only apply to Sorcerers (Or what?)
                >
                >
                > The SRD says:
                >
                > "A wizard begins play with a spellbook containing all 0-level wizard
                > spells(except those from her prohibited school or schools, if any; see
                > School Specialization, below) plus three 1st-level spellsof your choice.
                > For each point of Intelligence bonus the wizard has, the spellbook holds
                > one additional 1st-level spell of your choice. At each new wizard level,
                > she gains two new spellsof any spell level or levels that she can cast
                > (based on her new wizard level) for her spellbook."
                >
                > I would assume that this rule means that instead of learning 2 new spells
                > per level they learn (intelligence modifier + 2) per level?

                No, just 2 per level (regardless of Int mod) as it only refers to the Int mod
                for a 1st level wizard. Though a Wizard can add spells from a large number of
                sources, like scrolls and other Wizards spellbooks and therefore get more than
                the 2 per level.

                > But I do not see how it can be as we do not cap the number of spells a
                > wizard can learn...
                >
                > So I can only assume that it is for sorcerors who have a fixed number fo
                > known spells. So with the rule unchecked a 6th level sorceror with 18 INT
                > would have the following number of known spells: 0:7, 1:4+1, 2:2+1, 3:1+1,
                > and with the rule checked they would have 0:7+4, 1:4+1+4, 2:2+1+4, 3:1+1+4

                Sorcerer like Bard is Charisma based, not Int. Normally a high stat just adds
                to the number of spells a sorcerer can cast in a day, not to the number of
                spells they know overall. This would definitely be a house rule, not a normal
                one as bards and sorcerers, unlike Wizards, don't prepare spells ahead of time
                and so while they have more spell slots, they have fewer spells to choose from
                to cast that day.

                > If this interpretation is not correct then we could do with a more
                > complete description from someone in the know along with a complete series
                > of worked examples...

                I think this house rule makes sorcerers and bards more versatile at lower
                levels, but over powered as they get up into the higher level spells. Even a
                sorcerer with a CHA of 20 doesn't get bonus slots all the way up to 9, whereas
                this house rule lets then gain their CHA bonus worth of spells at each level (so
                upon gaining access to level 9 spells, a sorcerer would suddenly know 5+ instead
                of just 1).
              • Eddy Anthony
                I did some quick experimentation with the program and found this: With the Add stat bonus to spells known checkbox on both the bard and sorcerer are getting
                Message 7 of 19 , May 4, 2004
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                  I did some quick experimentation with the program and found this: With the
                  Add stat bonus to spells known checkbox on both the bard and sorcerer are
                  getting one additional spell known per level past first. This test was done
                  with a bard and a sorcerer each 6th level with an 18 CHA.

                  It seems this preference is a compromise, with it checked the bard is
                  correct per the SRD but the sorcerer knows more then he should (see SRD
                  quote below) with it unchecked the opposite is true.

                  Is this the case or am I missing something.

                  <snip from SRD ClassesII.rtf>
                  At each new sorcerer level, he gains one or more new spells, as indicated on
                  Table: Sorcerer Spells Known. (Unlike spells per day, the number of spells a
                  sorcerer knows is not affected by his Charisma score; the numbers on Table:
                  Sorcerer Spells Known are fixed.)
                  </snip>

                  On 5/4/04 10:41 AM, "Frugal" <frugal@...> wrote:

                  > <quote who="Sigurdur H. Olafsson">
                  >> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Eddy Anthony <eddyba@m...> wrote:
                  >>> On 5/4/04 12:24 AM, "Zevious" <zevious69@c...> wrote:
                  >>>
                  >>>> I can only answer one of these: Add stat bonus to spells known.
                  >>>> This will add your bonus spell stat (CHA for Bard & Sorcerers)
                  >>>> to the number of spells known at each level in addition to the
                  >>>> number of spells you can cast. Means people with higher scores
                  >>>> are even better at being Bards or Sorcerers.
                  >>>>
                  >>> Thanks Zev
                  >>> I figured that¹s what it did but somehow I thought this was
                  >>> part of the standard rules. Guess not.
                  >> Bards already get bonus spells to known as per the SRD
                  >> (srdbasiccharacterclassesi.rtf):
                  >> TABLE: Bard Spells Known
                  >> *Provided the bard has sufficient Charisma to have a bonus spell of
                  >> this level.
                  >>
                  >> So this would only apply to Sorcerers (Or what?)
                  >
                  > The SRD says:
                  >
                  > "A wizard begins play with a spellbook containing all 0-level wizard
                  > spells(except those from her prohibited school or schools, if any; see
                  > School Specialization, below) plus three 1st-level spellsof your choice.
                  > For each point of Intelligence bonus the wizard has, the spellbook holds
                  > one additional 1st-level spell of your choice. At each new wizard level,
                  > she gains two new spellsof any spell level or levels that she can cast
                  > (based on her new wizard level) for her spellbook."
                  >
                  > I would assume that this rule means that instead of learning 2 new spells
                  > per level they learn (intelligence modifier + 2) per level?
                  >
                  > But I do not see how it can be as we do not cap the number of spells a
                  > wizard can learn...
                  >
                  > So I can only assume that it is for sorcerors who have a fixed number fo
                  > known spells. So with the rule unchecked a 6th level sorceror with 18 INT
                  > would have the following number of known spells: 0:7, 1:4+1, 2:2+1, 3:1+1,
                  > and with the rule checked they would have 0:7+4, 1:4+1+4, 2:2+1+4, 3:1+1+4
                  >
                  > If this interpretation is not correct then we could do with a more
                  > complete description from someone in the know along with a complete series
                  > of worked examples...

                  --
                  ~ Eddy
                  ~ Doc Chimp, Data Tamarin
                  ~ PCGen BoD Documentation Second
                • Benjamin Pew
                  I think there s been a misunderstanding in these emails regarding the bard. Bards do not gain bonus spells known for high ability score according to the normal
                  Message 8 of 19 , May 4, 2004
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                    I think there's been a misunderstanding in these emails regarding the bard.
                    Bards do not gain bonus spells known for high ability score according to the
                    normal rules. It seems to be a lot more vague in the SRD, but the following
                    text from the RSRD is also in the 3.0 Player's Handbook: "(Unlike spells per
                    day, the number of spells a bard knows is not affected by his Charisma
                    score; the numbers on Table: Bard Spells Known are fixed.)"

                    The reference on the spells known chart to only knowing spells if he has a
                    high enough Charisma to have a bonus spell of this level is based on the
                    fact that at many levels, the bard can cast 0 spells of a given level, which
                    means he can only cast spells of that level if he has a high enough Charisma
                    to gain a bonus spell of that level. If he does, then he knows spells of
                    that level. If he can't cast spells at that level yet, then he doesn't know
                    any (not that it really matters, since he can't cast them even if he does
                    know them).

                    Bards and Sorcerers are not different in this respect.

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Eddy Anthony [mailto:eddyba@...]
                    Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 10:43 AM
                    To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [pcgen] Re: [DOCS] new preference entries


                    I did some quick experimentation with the program and found this: With the
                    Add stat bonus to spells known checkbox on both the bard and sorcerer are
                    getting one additional spell known per level past first. This test was done
                    with a bard and a sorcerer each 6th level with an 18 CHA.

                    It seems this preference is a compromise, with it checked the bard is
                    correct per the SRD but the sorcerer knows more then he should (see SRD
                    quote below) with it unchecked the opposite is true.

                    Is this the case or am I missing something.

                    <snip from SRD ClassesII.rtf>
                    At each new sorcerer level, he gains one or more new spells, as indicated on
                    Table: Sorcerer Spells Known. (Unlike spells per day, the number of spells a
                    sorcerer knows is not affected by his Charisma score; the numbers on Table:
                    Sorcerer Spells Known are fixed.)
                    </snip>

                    On 5/4/04 10:41 AM, "Frugal" <frugal@...> wrote:

                    > <quote who="Sigurdur H. Olafsson">
                    >> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Eddy Anthony <eddyba@m...> wrote:
                    >>> On 5/4/04 12:24 AM, "Zevious" <zevious69@c...> wrote:
                    >>>
                    >>>> I can only answer one of these: Add stat bonus to spells known.
                    >>>> This will add your bonus spell stat (CHA for Bard & Sorcerers)
                    >>>> to the number of spells known at each level in addition to the
                    >>>> number of spells you can cast. Means people with higher scores
                    >>>> are even better at being Bards or Sorcerers.
                    >>>>
                    >>> Thanks Zev
                    >>> I figured that¹s what it did but somehow I thought this was
                    >>> part of the standard rules. Guess not.
                    >> Bards already get bonus spells to known as per the SRD
                    >> (srdbasiccharacterclassesi.rtf):
                    >> TABLE: Bard Spells Known
                    >> *Provided the bard has sufficient Charisma to have a bonus spell of
                    >> this level.
                    >>
                    >> So this would only apply to Sorcerers (Or what?)
                    >
                    > The SRD says:
                    >
                    > "A wizard begins play with a spellbook containing all 0-level wizard
                    > spells(except those from her prohibited school or schools, if any; see
                    > School Specialization, below) plus three 1st-level spellsof your choice.
                    > For each point of Intelligence bonus the wizard has, the spellbook holds
                    > one additional 1st-level spell of your choice. At each new wizard level,
                    > she gains two new spellsof any spell level or levels that she can cast
                    > (based on her new wizard level) for her spellbook."
                    >
                    > I would assume that this rule means that instead of learning 2 new spells
                    > per level they learn (intelligence modifier + 2) per level?
                    >
                    > But I do not see how it can be as we do not cap the number of spells a
                    > wizard can learn...
                    >
                    > So I can only assume that it is for sorcerors who have a fixed number fo
                    > known spells. So with the rule unchecked a 6th level sorceror with 18 INT
                    > would have the following number of known spells: 0:7, 1:4+1, 2:2+1, 3:1+1,
                    > and with the rule checked they would have 0:7+4, 1:4+1+4, 2:2+1+4, 3:1+1+4
                    >
                    > If this interpretation is not correct then we could do with a more
                    > complete description from someone in the know along with a complete series
                    > of worked examples...

                    --
                    ~ Eddy
                    ~ Doc Chimp, Data Tamarin
                    ~ PCGen BoD Documentation Second



                    PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                    PCGen's alpha build: http://rpg.plambert.net/pcgen
                    PCGen's FAQ:
                    http://rpg.plambert.net/pcgen/current/_docs/
                    Yahoo! Groups Links
                  • Eddy Anthony
                    Thanks for clearing that up, I looked again and that is indeed in the revised SRD as well. So what this rule does is grant a single bonus spell known per level
                    Message 9 of 19 , May 4, 2004
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                      Thanks for clearing that up, I looked again and that is indeed in the
                      revised SRD as well.

                      So what this rule does is grant a single bonus spell known per level above
                      zero to classes that grant a limited number of spells know (such as bards
                      and sorcerers). Does this sound right?

                      My next question is what are the details of this bonus, how high does the
                      stat have to be? Is it just one spell or can there be more with a higher
                      charisma. Is the bonus spell based on having a stat high enough to cast at a
                      certain level?

                      On 5/4/04 12:23 PM, "Benjamin Pew" <benpew@...> wrote:

                      > I think there's been a misunderstanding in these emails regarding the bard.
                      > Bards do not gain bonus spells known for high ability score according to the
                      > normal rules. It seems to be a lot more vague in the SRD, but the following
                      > text from the RSRD is also in the 3.0 Player's Handbook: "(Unlike spells per
                      > day, the number of spells a bard knows is not affected by his Charisma
                      > score; the numbers on Table: Bard Spells Known are fixed.)"
                      >
                      > The reference on the spells known chart to only knowing spells if he has a
                      > high enough Charisma to have a bonus spell of this level is based on the
                      > fact that at many levels, the bard can cast 0 spells of a given level, which
                      > means he can only cast spells of that level if he has a high enough Charisma
                      > to gain a bonus spell of that level. If he does, then he knows spells of
                      > that level. If he can't cast spells at that level yet, then he doesn't know
                      > any (not that it really matters, since he can't cast them even if he does
                      > know them).
                      >
                      > Bards and Sorcerers are not different in this respect.
                      >
                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: Eddy Anthony [mailto:eddyba@...]
                      > Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 10:43 AM
                      > To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: Re: [pcgen] Re: [DOCS] new preference entries
                      >
                      >
                      > I did some quick experimentation with the program and found this: With the
                      > Add stat bonus to spells known checkbox on both the bard and sorcerer are
                      > getting one additional spell known per level past first. This test was done
                      > with a bard and a sorcerer each 6th level with an 18 CHA.
                      >
                      > It seems this preference is a compromise, with it checked the bard is
                      > correct per the SRD but the sorcerer knows more then he should (see SRD
                      > quote below) with it unchecked the opposite is true.
                      >
                      > Is this the case or am I missing something.
                      >
                      > <snip from SRD ClassesII.rtf>
                      > At each new sorcerer level, he gains one or more new spells, as indicated on
                      > Table: Sorcerer Spells Known. (Unlike spells per day, the number of spells a
                      > sorcerer knows is not affected by his Charisma score; the numbers on Table:
                      > Sorcerer Spells Known are fixed.)
                      > </snip>
                      >
                      > On 5/4/04 10:41 AM, "Frugal" <frugal@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >> <quote who="Sigurdur H. Olafsson">
                      >>> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Eddy Anthony <eddyba@m...> wrote:
                      >>>> On 5/4/04 12:24 AM, "Zevious" <zevious69@c...> wrote:
                      >>>>
                      >>>>> I can only answer one of these: Add stat bonus to spells known.
                      >>>>> This will add your bonus spell stat (CHA for Bard & Sorcerers)
                      >>>>> to the number of spells known at each level in addition to the
                      >>>>> number of spells you can cast. Means people with higher scores
                      >>>>> are even better at being Bards or Sorcerers.
                      >>>>>
                      >>>> Thanks Zev
                      >>>> I figured that¹s what it did but somehow I thought this was
                      >>>> part of the standard rules. Guess not.
                      >>> Bards already get bonus spells to known as per the SRD
                      >>> (srdbasiccharacterclassesi.rtf):
                      >>> TABLE: Bard Spells Known
                      >>> *Provided the bard has sufficient Charisma to have a bonus spell of
                      >>> this level.
                      >>>
                      >>> So this would only apply to Sorcerers (Or what?)
                      >>
                      >> The SRD says:
                      >>
                      >> "A wizard begins play with a spellbook containing all 0-level wizard
                      >> spells(except those from her prohibited school or schools, if any; see
                      >> School Specialization, below) plus three 1st-level spellsof your choice.
                      >> For each point of Intelligence bonus the wizard has, the spellbook holds
                      >> one additional 1st-level spell of your choice. At each new wizard level,
                      >> she gains two new spellsof any spell level or levels that she can cast
                      >> (based on her new wizard level) for her spellbook."
                      >>
                      >> I would assume that this rule means that instead of learning 2 new spells
                      >> per level they learn (intelligence modifier + 2) per level?
                      >>
                      >> But I do not see how it can be as we do not cap the number of spells a
                      >> wizard can learn...
                      >>
                      >> So I can only assume that it is for sorcerors who have a fixed number fo
                      >> known spells. So with the rule unchecked a 6th level sorceror with 18 INT
                      >> would have the following number of known spells: 0:7, 1:4+1, 2:2+1, 3:1+1,
                      >> and with the rule checked they would have 0:7+4, 1:4+1+4, 2:2+1+4, 3:1+1+4
                      >>
                      >> If this interpretation is not correct then we could do with a more
                      >> complete description from someone in the know along with a complete series
                      >> of worked examples...

                      --
                      ~ Eddy
                      ~ Doc Chimp, Data Tamarin
                      ~ PCGen BoD Documentation Second
                    • Zevious
                      My understanding as to what it SHOULD be doing is using the bonus spells chart to add to KNOWN spells in addition to cast spells. The spells known charts for
                      Message 10 of 19 , May 4, 2004
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                        My understanding as to what it SHOULD be doing is using the bonus spells
                        chart to add to KNOWN spells in addition to cast spells. The spells
                        known charts for both Bard and Sorcerer are WITHOUT this bonus. The * in
                        the known spells chart means that they only know spells of that level if
                        their CHA is high enough to get them bonus spells cast of that level
                        (since the spells/day chart has a 0 for that spell level).

                        I had thought that getting bonus known spells from the spell stat was a
                        published OPTIONAL rule in the PHB, but I just did a quick check of both
                        the 3.0 and 3.5 PHB and could not find it, so I could be wrong there.
                        Probably published in something like UA or maybe Tome & Blood. Not sure,
                        but it's moot for this discussion anyway. :)

                        What should happen as I understand it:

                        10th level Bard, CHA 20 (That'd be mine)
                        Without check - Known: 4 1st level, 4 each of 2nd & 3rd, and 2 4th level
                        (since his CHA gives him a bonus 4th level spell, he gets to know 2 of
                        them. If he only had a 17 CHA or lower, he would not have the bonus cast
                        spell for 4th level so would not know any of them either).
                        WITH check - Known: 6 1st level, 5 each of 2nd & 3rd, and 3 4th level.

                        The DM that I'm playing the above bard in does allow this optional rule
                        and my character sheet prints out correctly with the above numbers (6,
                        5, 5, & 3).


                        Zev

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Eddy Anthony [mailto:eddyba@...]
                        Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 9:46 AM
                        To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [pcgen] Re: [DOCS] new preference entries


                        Thanks for clearing that up, I looked again and that is indeed in the
                        revised SRD as well.

                        So what this rule does is grant a single bonus spell known per level
                        above
                        zero to classes that grant a limited number of spells know (such as
                        bards
                        and sorcerers). Does this sound right?

                        My next question is what are the details of this bonus, how high does
                        the
                        stat have to be? Is it just one spell or can there be more with a higher
                        charisma. Is the bonus spell based on having a stat high enough to cast
                        at a
                        certain level?

                        On 5/4/04 12:23 PM, "Benjamin Pew" <benpew@...> wrote:

                        > I think there's been a misunderstanding in these emails regarding the
                        bard.
                        > Bards do not gain bonus spells known for high ability score according
                        to the
                        > normal rules. It seems to be a lot more vague in the SRD, but the
                        following
                        > text from the RSRD is also in the 3.0 Player's Handbook: "(Unlike
                        spells per
                        > day, the number of spells a bard knows is not affected by his Charisma
                        > score; the numbers on Table: Bard Spells Known are fixed.)"
                        >
                        > The reference on the spells known chart to only knowing spells if he
                        has a
                        > high enough Charisma to have a bonus spell of this level is based on
                        the
                        > fact that at many levels, the bard can cast 0 spells of a given level,
                        which
                        > means he can only cast spells of that level if he has a high enough
                        Charisma
                        > to gain a bonus spell of that level. If he does, then he knows spells
                        of
                        > that level. If he can't cast spells at that level yet, then he doesn't
                        know
                        > any (not that it really matters, since he can't cast them even if he
                        does
                        > know them).
                        >
                        > Bards and Sorcerers are not different in this respect.
                        >
                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: Eddy Anthony [mailto:eddyba@...]
                        > Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 10:43 AM
                        > To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: Re: [pcgen] Re: [DOCS] new preference entries
                        >
                        >
                        > I did some quick experimentation with the program and found this: With
                        the
                        > Add stat bonus to spells known checkbox on both the bard and sorcerer
                        are
                        > getting one additional spell known per level past first. This test was
                        done
                        > with a bard and a sorcerer each 6th level with an 18 CHA.
                        >
                        > It seems this preference is a compromise, with it checked the bard is
                        > correct per the SRD but the sorcerer knows more then he should (see
                        SRD
                        > quote below) with it unchecked the opposite is true.
                        >
                        > Is this the case or am I missing something.
                        >
                        > <snip from SRD ClassesII.rtf>
                        > At each new sorcerer level, he gains one or more new spells, as
                        indicated on
                        > Table: Sorcerer Spells Known. (Unlike spells per day, the number of
                        spells a
                        > sorcerer knows is not affected by his Charisma score; the numbers on
                        Table:
                        > Sorcerer Spells Known are fixed.)
                        > </snip>
                        >
                        > On 5/4/04 10:41 AM, "Frugal" <frugal@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >> <quote who="Sigurdur H. Olafsson">
                        >>> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Eddy Anthony <eddyba@m...> wrote:
                        >>>> On 5/4/04 12:24 AM, "Zevious" <zevious69@c...> wrote:
                        >>>>
                        >>>>> I can only answer one of these: Add stat bonus to spells known.
                        >>>>> This will add your bonus spell stat (CHA for Bard & Sorcerers)
                        >>>>> to the number of spells known at each level in addition to the
                        >>>>> number of spells you can cast. Means people with higher scores
                        >>>>> are even better at being Bards or Sorcerers.
                        >>>>>
                        >>>> Thanks Zev
                        >>>> I figured that¹s what it did but somehow I thought this was
                        >>>> part of the standard rules. Guess not.
                        >>> Bards already get bonus spells to known as per the SRD
                        >>> (srdbasiccharacterclassesi.rtf):
                        >>> TABLE: Bard Spells Known
                        >>> *Provided the bard has sufficient Charisma to have a bonus spell of
                        >>> this level.
                        >>>
                        >>> So this would only apply to Sorcerers (Or what?)
                        >>
                        >> The SRD says:
                        >>
                        >> "A wizard begins play with a spellbook containing all 0-level wizard
                        >> spells(except those from her prohibited school or schools, if any;
                        see
                        >> School Specialization, below) plus three 1st-level spellsof your
                        choice.
                        >> For each point of Intelligence bonus the wizard has, the spellbook
                        holds
                        >> one additional 1st-level spell of your choice. At each new wizard
                        level,
                        >> she gains two new spellsof any spell level or levels that she can
                        cast
                        >> (based on her new wizard level) for her spellbook."
                        >>
                        >> I would assume that this rule means that instead of learning 2 new
                        spells
                        >> per level they learn (intelligence modifier + 2) per level?
                        >>
                        >> But I do not see how it can be as we do not cap the number of spells
                        a
                        >> wizard can learn...
                        >>
                        >> So I can only assume that it is for sorcerors who have a fixed number
                        fo
                        >> known spells. So with the rule unchecked a 6th level sorceror with 18
                        INT
                        >> would have the following number of known spells: 0:7, 1:4+1, 2:2+1,
                        3:1+1,
                        >> and with the rule checked they would have 0:7+4, 1:4+1+4, 2:2+1+4,
                        3:1+1+4
                        >>
                        >> If this interpretation is not correct then we could do with a more
                        >> complete description from someone in the know along with a complete
                        series
                        >> of worked examples...

                        --
                        ~ Eddy
                        ~ Doc Chimp, Data Tamarin
                        ~ PCGen BoD Documentation Second



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                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Paul Grosse
                        What does Display Feat Description do. Does this relate to GUI display or output? I was unable to find any function when I experimented with it. PG:
                        Message 11 of 19 , May 4, 2004
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                          </snip>
                          What does 'Display Feat Description' do. Does this relate to GUI
                          display or output? I was unable to find any function when I experimented
                          with it.

                          PG: The default DESC is "See Text", per the agreement with WotC PCGen is
                          allowed to use the one line descriptions in the feat table as the
                          descriptions. It's under "rsrd_feats_descriptions.lst" and it mods the
                          feats in "rsrd_feats.lst" to have the one line desc from the PHB.

                          What does 'Use expert GUI settings' do?

                          PG: No idea :)

                          In the Character Menu under House Rules.

                          What does 'Add stat bonus to spells known' do? This defaults to off,
                          is this not part of the regular rules? (forgive me I don't have the
                          books here at work).

                          PG: Yes everyone already covered this. It adds to KNOWN spells for bards
                          and Sorc using the ability bonus chart

                          Weapon catagories, what specifically does this do? Is there any
                          reason you would want to set it to 3.0 if you are using 3.5 gamemode?
                          What are the implications of setting the wrong Weapon category?

                          PG: I believe this is for those DM's that didn't like the 3.5 weapon
                          changes. I know many didn't care for them

                          And finally the million dollar question:

                          What does the 'Allow any range for ability scores' checkbox do?

                          PG: This allows for ability scores below 8 and above 18, specifically
                          using the optional Point Buy system

                          Thanks.
                          --
                          ~ Eddy
                          ~ Doc Chimp, Data Tamarin
                          ~ PCGen BoD Documentation Second
                          </snip>

                          There ya go Eddy :)

                          Paul "Yes that Paul" Grosse
                          PCGen OGL Chimp & LST Lemur-in-training
                          ICQ: 14397299
                          AO: Nylan
                          Various forums: Nylan (or Nylanfs)

                          "The Earth is just too small and fragile a basket for the human race to
                          keep all it's eggs in." - Robert Heinlein
                        • Eddy Anthony
                          Thanks for everyone s input, I think we ve got answers to all but one of the entries. Here s the text I ll put in the docs, any suggestions for clarity,
                          Message 12 of 19 , May 4, 2004
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                            Thanks for everyone's input, I think we've got answers to all but one of the
                            entries. Here's the text I'll put in the docs, any suggestions for clarity,
                            spelling, rules, etc are appreciated.
                            ________________________________________________

                            > In the Appearence menu, under Display Options.
                            > 'Display Feat Description'

                            This option will allow PCGen to display the description included with the
                            feat rather than "See text".

                            > In the Character Menu under House Rules.
                            > 'Add stat bonus to spells known'

                            This option will add to a characters number of spells known using the
                            Table:Ability Modifiers and Bonus Spells. Normally characters with a limited
                            number of spells known such as Bards and Sorcerers do not get bonus spells
                            known due to high ability scores.

                            > Weapon catagories

                            The 3.5 revision of the rules changed the way weapon sizes were handled
                            within the game. This option allows the user to choose which version of the
                            rules to use within PCGen.

                            > 'Allow any range for ability scores'

                            This allows for ability scores below 8 and above 18, specifically
                            using the optional Point Buy system. Unchecked one cannot create a point buy
                            method outside the ranges of 8 and 18. Please note that you must check this
                            box, close the preferences and open them back up again before you can create
                            a point buy method of any range.

                            (Thanks Paul (Yes that Paul), this one was quite difficult to nail down)

                            > In the Appearence menu, under Display Options.
                            > What does 'Use expert GUI settings' do?

                            Still don't know what this does.

                            --
                            ~ Eddy
                            ~ Doc Chimp, Data Tamarin
                            ~ PCGen BoD Documentation Second
                          • Frugal
                            ... This really needs to be renamed, as it stands it reads as though it will add the stat modifier, whereas what it actually does is
                            Message 13 of 19 , May 5, 2004
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                              <quote who="Paul Grosse">

                              > What does 'Add stat bonus to spells known' do? This defaults to off,
                              > is this not part of the regular rules? (forgive me I don't have the
                              > books here at work).
                              >
                              > PG: Yes everyone already covered this. It adds to KNOWN spells for bards
                              > and Sorc using the ability bonus chart

                              This really needs to be renamed, as it stands it reads as though it will
                              add the stat modifier, whereas what it actually does is use teh stat
                              modifier to calculate the number of bonus spells.

                              How about something like "Use Stat modifier to caclulate bonus known spells"?

                              > What does the 'Allow any range for ability scores' checkbox do?
                              >
                              > PG: This allows for ability scores below 8 and above 18, specifically
                              > using the optional Point Buy system

                              Again, this could do with being re-worded to reflect the fact that it only
                              affects the point buy system: 'Allow any range for ability scores in
                              point-buy'

                              --
                              regards,
                              Frugal
                              -OS Chimp
                            • Seb
                              I don t get it. The point-buy system use the system pointbuymethods*.lst files. If abilities below 8 or above 18 are not in this file, how can pcgen knows the
                              Message 14 of 19 , May 5, 2004
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                                I don't get it. The point-buy system use the
                                system\pointbuymethods*.lst files. If abilities below 8 or above 18
                                are not in this file, how can pcgen knows the cost ?
                                So I guess you have to fill this file with abilities below 8 and/or
                                above 18.
                                Isn't it redondant to have this checkbox ? If abilities outside the
                                standart range are in the pointbuymethods file then allows it, if not
                                don't.

                                --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Grosse" <paul.grosse@m...> wrote:
                                >
                                > What does the 'Allow any range for ability scores' checkbox do?
                                >
                                > PG: This allows for ability scores below 8 and above 18,
                                specifically
                                > using the optional Point Buy system
                              • Sigurdur H. Olafsson
                                ... Normally PCGen will remind you if you try to create a New character without any sources loaded, to load sources. When this is checked it will just grey
                                Message 15 of 19 , May 5, 2004
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                                  --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Eddy Anthony <eddyba@m...> wrote:
                                  > What does 'Use expert GUI settings' do?

                                  Normally PCGen will remind you if you try to create a "New"
                                  character without any sources loaded, to load sources.

                                  When this is checked it will just grey out the File-New option and
                                  the "New" Toolbar icon.
                                  (Presumably this was changed this way because newbies were always
                                  asking here why they could not create new characters)

                                  The code monkeys involved (Jamey, If I am not mistaken) would know
                                  if there is more to it. I suggest you send him a private mail since
                                  I have not seen him here for a while.

                                  Siggy - Doc Chimp
                                • Eddy Anthony
                                  Heres the deal: if the point buy system does not spec abilities below 8 or above 18 you cannot have them checked or not. What the checkbox does is allow you to
                                  Message 16 of 19 , May 5, 2004
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                                    Heres the deal: if the point buy system does not spec abilities below 8 or
                                    above 18 you cannot have them checked or not. What the checkbox does is
                                    allow you to create or modify a point buy method to have abilities outside
                                    that range. So it has little to do with using point buy methods and more to
                                    do with editing them.

                                    On 5/5/04 4:31 AM, "Seb" <sebastien.peslin@...> wrote:

                                    > I don't get it. The point-buy system use the
                                    > system\pointbuymethods*.lst files. If abilities below 8 or above 18
                                    > are not in this file, how can pcgen knows the cost ?
                                    > So I guess you have to fill this file with abilities below 8 and/or
                                    > above 18.
                                    > Isn't it redondant to have this checkbox ? If abilities outside the
                                    > standart range are in the pointbuymethods file then allows it, if not
                                    > don't.
                                    >
                                    > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Grosse" <paul.grosse@m...> wrote:
                                    >>
                                    >> What does the 'Allow any range for ability scores' checkbox do?
                                    >>
                                    >> PG: This allows for ability scores below 8 and above 18,
                                    > specifically
                                    >> using the optional Point Buy system

                                    --
                                    ~ Eddy
                                    ~ Doc Chimp, Data Tamarin
                                    ~ PCGen BoD Documentation Second
                                  • Emily Smirle
                                    ... There are a few other features, they re along the same lines. Stuff like adding your first character level, it asks if your stats are set the way you want
                                    Message 17 of 19 , May 7, 2004
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                                      Sigurdur H. Olafsson wrote:

                                      >--- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Eddy Anthony <eddyba@m...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >> What does 'Use expert GUI settings' do?
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >Normally PCGen will remind you if you try to create a "New"
                                      >character without any sources loaded, to load sources.
                                      >
                                      >When this is checked it will just grey out the File-New option and
                                      >the "New" Toolbar icon.
                                      >(Presumably this was changed this way because newbies were always
                                      >asking here why they could not create new characters)
                                      >
                                      >The code monkeys involved (Jamey, If I am not mistaken) would know
                                      >if there is more to it. I suggest you send him a private mail since
                                      >I have not seen him here for a while.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      There are a few other features, they're along the same lines. Stuff like
                                      adding your first character level, it asks if your stats are set the way
                                      you want them. Things like that.

                                      Every time we get a rash of questions about something in the GUI, and a
                                      bunch of old wrinkly PCGeners explaining why things are the way they
                                      are, we change the GUI so people stop asking questions, and implement
                                      the "Better" way as an "expert" setting so us wrinklies don't have to
                                      put up with popups.

                                      --
                                      Soylant Clear: Clearly less people, Clearly less fat.
                                    • Emily Smirle
                                      ... That s it in a nutshell. This originally came from discussion over a few feats from the Netbook of Feats, as well as a house rule used in the campeign I
                                      Message 18 of 19 , May 7, 2004
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                                        Zevious wrote:

                                        > What should happen as I understand it:
                                        >
                                        >10th level Bard, CHA 20 (That'd be mine)
                                        >Without check - Known: 4 1st level, 4 each of 2nd & 3rd, and 2 4th level
                                        >(since his CHA gives him a bonus 4th level spell, he gets to know 2 of
                                        >them. If he only had a 17 CHA or lower, he would not have the bonus cast
                                        >spell for 4th level so would not know any of them either).
                                        >WITH check - Known: 6 1st level, 5 each of 2nd & 3rd, and 3 4th level.
                                        >
                                        >The DM that I'm playing the above bard in does allow this optional rule
                                        >and my character sheet prints out correctly with the above numbers (6,
                                        >5, 5, & 3).
                                        >
                                        >

                                        That's it in a nutshell. This originally came from discussion over a few
                                        feats from the Netbook of Feats, as well as a house rule used in the
                                        campeign I was in a year or two ago.

                                        --
                                        Soylant Clear: Clearly less people, Clearly less fat.
                                      • Emily Smirle
                                        ... Text in this case refers to Bonus Spell(s) Cast (Per Day), not Bonus Spells Known. So, number of times he can *cast* spells of the given level, not what
                                        Message 19 of 19 , May 7, 2004
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                                          Sigurdur H. Olafsson wrote:

                                          >Bards already get bonus spells to known as per the SRD
                                          >(srdbasiccharacterclassesi.rtf):
                                          >TABLE: Bard Spells Known
                                          >*Provided the bard has sufficient Charisma to have a bonus spell of
                                          >this level.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          Text in this case refers to Bonus Spell(s) Cast (Per Day), not Bonus
                                          Spells Known. So, number of times he can *cast* spells of the given
                                          level, not what variety of spells of that level he can cast. If that
                                          helps clear things up.

                                          >So this would only apply to Sorcerers (Or what?)
                                          >
                                          >
                                          No, both of them. And to 3.5 psionic wariors, and probably a bunch of
                                          prestige classes. It doesn't apply to Clerics and Druids, because they
                                          each know *all* spells of a level they can cast, they just don't have
                                          the religious authority to request them from the relevant deity. Ditto
                                          Paladins, Rangers and blackguards. Assasins learn spells like
                                          fancy-dressed wizards, but the Mystic Theurge learns like a sorcerer,
                                          IIRC. Or can, at any rate.


                                          --
                                          Soylant Clear: Clearly less people, Clearly less fat.
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