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Re: [DATA-XML] heres your chnace to review 2 pieces of the XML draft

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  • dlm1065
    ... spaces. ... or ... Admin ... Other than a lack of feedbackt he reason I U/L the files here on Y! is in part the issues the WIKI formating is causing to
    Message 1 of 13 , Apr 4, 2004
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      --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, David Finch <david.finch@i...> wrote:
      > Jayme Cox wrote:
      > > dlm1065 wrote:
      > >>The wiki
      > >>http://pcgendm.sourceforge.net/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/DLM/WorkingFolder
      > > Calc(Arm B+Shld B+Size M+Nat AC+Defl M+Misc M)</value>
      > > What is "Misc M"? Shouldn't that be "AC.Misc M"?
      >
      > I know that this is XML and all but why do variables have to have
      spaces.
      > "Arm B+Shld B" does not read well in whatever programming language
      or
      > algebra you are used to.
      >
      > --
      > David Allan Finch - Unix/X/C++/Java Programmer, and Sys/Mail/DB/Net
      Admin
      > Sun(tm) Certified System Administrator for Solaris(tm) 2.6
      > Development Department - IPA Systems Ltd - Salfords England EU
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      Other than a lack of feedbackt he reason I U/L the files here on Y!
      is in part the issues the WIKI formating is causing to the xml
      samples. If you pull the xml files in the folder here you will see
      there are no spaces inside the names. The wiki thought the names were
      wiki words and therefore it formatted them as wikiwords. Example

      AbcD
      becomes formated
      Abc D?

      take a look at the xml in the files here and give me a responce to
      them thanks
    • David Finch
      ... IC thanks. Shame that the wiki does not have a not a wiki word operator :( -- David Allan Finch - Unix/X/C++/Java Programmer, and Sys/Mail/DB/Net Admin
      Message 2 of 13 , Apr 5, 2004
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        dlm1065 wrote:
        > Other than a lack of feedbackt he reason I U/L the files here on Y!
        > is in part the issues the WIKI formating is causing to the xml
        > samples. If you pull the xml files in the folder here you will see
        > there are no spaces inside the names. The wiki thought the names were
        > wiki words and therefore it formatted them as wikiwords. Example

        IC thanks. Shame that the wiki does not have a 'not a wiki word' operator :(

        --
        David Allan Finch - Unix/X/C++/Java Programmer, and Sys/Mail/DB/Net Admin
        Sun(tm) Certified System Administrator for Solaris(tm) 2.6
        Development Department - IPA Systems Ltd - Salfords England EU


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Keith Davies
        ... Actually, I think it does. I forget offhand what it is, though. Keith -- Keith Davies I gave my 2yo daughter a strawberry
        Message 3 of 13 , Apr 5, 2004
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          On Mon, Apr 05, 2004 at 07:47:00PM +0100, David Finch wrote:
          > dlm1065 wrote:
          > > Other than a lack of feedbackt he reason I U/L the files here on Y!
          > > is in part the issues the WIKI formating is causing to the xml
          > > samples. If you pull the xml files in the folder here you will see
          > > there are no spaces inside the names. The wiki thought the names were
          > > wiki words and therefore it formatted them as wikiwords. Example
          >
          > IC thanks. Shame that the wiki does not have a 'not a wiki word'
          > operator :(

          Actually, I think it does. I forget offhand what it is, though.


          Keith
          --
          Keith Davies I gave my 2yo daughter a strawberry
          keith.davies@... Naomi: "Strawberry!"
          me: "What do you say?"
          Naomi: "*MY* strawberry!"
        • Eddy Anthony
          ... But there is, from the Wiki documentation: Escape sequence Anything placed between [= and =] is not interpreted by PmWiki. This makes it possible to easily
          Message 4 of 13 , Apr 5, 2004
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            On 4/5/04 2:47 PM, "David Finch" <david.finch@...> wrote:

            > dlm1065 wrote:
            >> Other than a lack of feedbackt he reason I U/L the files here on Y!
            >> is in part the issues the WIKI formating is causing to the xml
            >> samples. If you pull the xml files in the folder here you will see
            >> there are no spaces inside the names. The wiki thought the names were
            >> wiki words and therefore it formatted them as wikiwords. Example
            >
            > IC thanks. Shame that the wiki does not have a 'not a wiki word' operator :(

            But there is, from the Wiki documentation:

            Escape sequence

            Anything placed between [= and =] is not interpreted by PmWiki. This makes
            it possible to easily do WikiWords that are not links and turn off other
            special formatting interpretation. The [= and =] can span multiple input
            lines, allowing effects to be applied to multiple input lines. For example,
            space+[= at the beginning of a line will cause the text up to the next =] to
            be monospace and uninterpreted by PmWiki (useful for program listings).
            --
            ~ Eddy
            ~ Doc Chimp, Data Tamarin
            ~ PCGen BoD Documentation Second
          • dlm1065
            ... on Y! ... see ... were ... operator :( ... This makes ... other ... input ... example, ... next =] to ... listings). ... Yes I thought that would work too.
            Message 5 of 13 , Apr 7, 2004
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              --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Eddy Anthony <eddyba@m...> wrote:
              > On 4/5/04 2:47 PM, "David Finch" <david.finch@i...> wrote:
              >
              > > dlm1065 wrote:
              > >> Other than a lack of feedbackt he reason I U/L the files here
              on Y!
              > >> is in part the issues the WIKI formating is causing to the xml
              > >> samples. If you pull the xml files in the folder here you will
              see
              > >> there are no spaces inside the names. The wiki thought the names
              were
              > >> wiki words and therefore it formatted them as wikiwords. Example
              > >
              > > IC thanks. Shame that the wiki does not have a 'not a wiki word'
              operator :(
              >
              > But there is, from the Wiki documentation:
              >
              > Escape sequence
              >
              > Anything placed between [= and =] is not interpreted by PmWiki.
              This makes
              > it possible to easily do WikiWords that are not links and turn off
              other
              > special formatting interpretation. The [= and =] can span multiple
              input
              > lines, allowing effects to be applied to multiple input lines. For
              example,
              > space+[= at the beginning of a line will cause the text up to the
              next =] to
              > be monospace and uninterpreted by PmWiki (useful for program
              listings).
              > --
              > ~ Eddy
              > ~ Doc Chimp, Data Tamarin
              > ~ PCGen BoD Documentation Second

              Yes I thought that would work too. The only thing is that removes ALL
              formatting not just the wiki word can we say no returns just one
              stream of data???
              Can I say even more unreadable??
              Of course you could edit every line individually and do it but that
              would take three times as long as composing the code. Also I may be
              not understanding something in the wiki docs as I never used it
              before I installed it, but the [= & the =] took that xml file and
              made it totally unreadable
            • andargor
              ... ALL ... Heheh. Then just put a link in to the file... BTW, your model differs greatly from the low-level XML programming language being worked over at
              Message 6 of 13 , Apr 8, 2004
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                --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "dlm1065" <dlm1065@h...> wrote:
                > Yes I thought that would work too. The only thing is that removes
                ALL
                > formatting not just the wiki word can we say no returns just one
                > stream of data???
                > Can I say even more unreadable??

                Heheh. Then just put a link in to the file...

                BTW, your model differs greatly from the low-level "XML programming
                language" being worked over at PCGen-XML, and Frugal's export. :)

                A three-way merge seems unevitable.

                Personally, I prefer high-level generic XML like yours, which can be
                XSLT'ed down to whatever level wanted.

                I stole it for my own experiments ;)

                Andargor
              • Frugal
                ... I think the word you are looking for in impossible ;O) The low level XML design will require PCGen being rewritten from the ground
                Message 7 of 13 , Apr 8, 2004
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                  <quote who="andargor">
                  > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "dlm1065" <dlm1065@h...> wrote:
                  >> Yes I thought that would work too. The only thing is that removes
                  > ALL
                  >> formatting not just the wiki word can we say no returns just one
                  >> stream of data???
                  >> Can I say even more unreadable??
                  >
                  > Heheh. Then just put a link in to the file...
                  >
                  > BTW, your model differs greatly from the low-level "XML programming
                  > language" being worked over at PCGen-XML, and Frugal's export. :)
                  >
                  > A three-way merge seems unevitable.

                  I think the word you are looking for in 'impossible' ;O)

                  The low level XML design will require PCGen being rewritten from the
                  ground up. Doug's high level schema can be shoehorned into the current
                  system, but there is absolutely no way the low level schema can be used
                  with the current code base. I am personally never expecting the low level
                  XML design to be used in PCGen, it would be a completely different project
                  just with the original data entry (LST) in common.

                  The current design of PCgen has zero separation between the data layer,
                  the application layer and the presentation layer. As a result of the
                  current arcitecture radiacally redesigning the data layer will result in a
                  complete rewrite of the application layer and the presentation layer.

                  I have tried on a number of occasions to separate the 3 layers (about 50
                  man hours on a fast machine with good refactoring tools), but they are so
                  incestuous that nothing short of a ground-up clean-room reimplementation
                  will ever separate the 3 layers.

                  --
                  regards,
                  Frugal
                  -OS Chimp
                • andargor
                  ... programming ... current ... used ... level ... project ... layer, ... result in a ... layer. ... (about 50 ... are so ... reimplementation ... I share your
                  Message 8 of 13 , Apr 9, 2004
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                    --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Frugal" <frugal@p...> wrote:
                    >
                    > <quote who="andargor">
                    > > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "dlm1065" <dlm1065@h...> wrote:
                    > >> Yes I thought that would work too. The only thing is that removes
                    > > ALL
                    > >> formatting not just the wiki word can we say no returns just one
                    > >> stream of data???
                    > >> Can I say even more unreadable??
                    > >
                    > > Heheh. Then just put a link in to the file...
                    > >
                    > > BTW, your model differs greatly from the low-level "XML
                    programming
                    > > language" being worked over at PCGen-XML, and Frugal's export. :)
                    > >
                    > > A three-way merge seems unevitable.
                    >
                    > I think the word you are looking for in 'impossible' ;O)
                    >
                    > The low level XML design will require PCGen being rewritten from the
                    > ground up. Doug's high level schema can be shoehorned into the
                    current
                    > system, but there is absolutely no way the low level schema can be
                    used
                    > with the current code base. I am personally never expecting the low
                    level
                    > XML design to be used in PCGen, it would be a completely different
                    project
                    > just with the original data entry (LST) in common.
                    >
                    > The current design of PCgen has zero separation between the data
                    layer,
                    > the application layer and the presentation layer. As a result of the
                    > current arcitecture radiacally redesigning the data layer will
                    result in a
                    > complete rewrite of the application layer and the presentation
                    layer.
                    >
                    > I have tried on a number of occasions to separate the 3 layers
                    (about 50
                    > man hours on a fast machine with good refactoring tools), but they
                    are so
                    > incestuous that nothing short of a ground-up clean-room
                    reimplementation
                    > will ever separate the 3 layers.
                    >
                    > --
                    > regards,
                    > Frugal
                    > -OS Chimp

                    I share your views completely, except that I would add a separation
                    between data and code (e.g. what a feat "is" versus what a
                    feat "does")

                    In any case, your export of the existing LST data is a step in the
                    right direction. It facilitates the parsing of the data to transform
                    it into an application-specific format, such as your XML engine
                    approach.

                    The target should be to transform the LST data to a high-level
                    format. I believe you are saying as much above, since the XML engine
                    approach is very specific and that format would be the end product of
                    any transformation, and would be difficult to transform into anything
                    else that is generic.

                    So what has Doug and the BoD to say about all this? What's the plan
                    for PCGen?

                    Having toyed with the current code myself, I agree that a total
                    revamp is necessary. PCGen 6.0.0 would be an entirely new engine,
                    then?

                    I don't see any benefit in having intermediate steps towards this.
                    Half-measures, such as using your export into the existing engine
                    (tweaked for it) only would lead to wasted effort. XML is a new
                    model, and needs a new approach.

                    If there is a vote to be made, rewrite the whole thing, line up the
                    data monkeys with a generic XML format, and in the meantime provide
                    an XML to LST converter for legacy purposes until the new engine is
                    ready.

                    Whatever you decide, it'll be a step in the right direction (away
                    from the statu quo) ;)

                    Andargor
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