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[TM] NONE/Spiritual Inclination 'deity' (WAS: Re: [DOUG] Re: Production PCGen 5.6 on Feb-6-2004)

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  • Tir Gwaith
    As per Doug s request: Tracker Monkeys, please set a DM tag-modification tracker for this discussion and assign to Doug. He is working on his computer so he
    Message 1 of 5 , Feb 5, 2004
      As per Doug's request:

      Tracker Monkeys, please set a DM tag-modification tracker for this
      discussion and assign to Doug. He is working on his computer so he can get
      back to the critical RSRD fixes (like the Equipmods problem). He wants to
      look at the problem properly once his computer isn't having major issues.

      For now, things stay 'status-quo'.

      It does seem that the Deity editor could use a bit of work (the display
      doesn't always seem to work, but that is code monkey thing.) If people
      actually start using the editors and giving feedback, it will help the code
      monkeys improve them.... Just not using them because they are clunky won't
      help them improve any. I personally use a text editor for anything I do, so
      I haven't gotten into the custom data and editors stuff....

      Tir Gwaith
      LST Chimp

      > > Well, lets just turn this sideways:
      > >
      > > Is the 'spiritual inclination' deity specified in the srd/rsrd to the
      > > extent that it does not violate policy to include it? (See the recent
      > > quiver discussion if you don't know what I'm refering to.)
      > >
      > > If not, then shouldn't it simply be removed as per policy. Generic
      > > entries not allowed. That is after all, how it's being used by casual
      > > users.
      > >
      > > If so, then rename it to 'spiritual inclination'. Under that name I
      > > agree with Tir's logic that the War domain should not get a weapon list.
      >
      > You have a point. The 'None' deity was put in so that Clerics that don't
      > have a deity can still choose their two domains. This is from before the
      > deities that used to be in releases were pulled for the
      > OGL/whatever-you-want-to-fill-in-here reason....
      >
      > Changing the name to "Spiritual Inclination" seems appropriate given this
      > discussion and how different people are perceiving it. Since I have Doug
      on
      > Instant Message at the moment, I'll make sure he knows about it.
      >
      > Tir Gwaith
      > LST Chimp
      >
    • Michael Tucker
      ... *chuckle* Tir, do you realize the irony in what you just said? Catch-22: a) The LST editors don t work. b) Therefore, people don t use them. Even the
      Message 2 of 5 , Feb 5, 2004
        On Thursday, February 5, 2004, at 06:39 PM, Tir Gwaith wrote:

        > It does seem that the Deity editor could use a bit of work (the display
        > doesn't always seem to work, but that is code monkey thing.) If people
        > actually start using the editors and giving feedback, it will help the
        > code
        > monkeys improve them.... Just not using them because they are clunky
        > won't
        > help them improve any. I personally use a text editor for anything I
        > do, so
        > I haven't gotten into the custom data and editors stuff....
        >
        > Tir Gwaith
        > LST Chimp
        >

        *chuckle* Tir, do you realize the irony in what you just said?

        Catch-22:

        a) The LST editors don't work.

        b) Therefore, people don't use them. Even the *developers* don't use
        the LST editor, because a text editor will at least let you create
        custom LST files that work, if you know what you're doing. (That's the
        ironic part, for those who are following closely.)

        c) Therefore, there's no feedback on what's broken.

        d) Therefore, the LST editors never get fixed.

        Lather, rinse, repeat.

        Realistically, the only way out of this loop is if the developers will
        actually take the time to systematically and thoroughly go through the
        LST editor and make its existing features work. This hasn't happened
        yet.

        To be fair to Bryan, I know that he's set out more than once to fix the
        LST editor, but as far as I remember he's been the only one to do so.
        And because we haven't stopped the P9 runaway train (see other threads
        regarding dead horses), he keeps getting pulled away to fix things that
        are deemed more important.

        Is it possible (after this next release) to bump the whole LST editor
        to P9? Or at least P8? I think that fixing the LST editor is a lot more
        important than adding any new features.

        I have faith that one day soon the conditions that are sustaining this
        loop will go away. I have faith in our developers, even if sometimes it
        doesn't sound like it. :-)

        ~ Java Kensai
      • Tir Gwaith
        ... Totally. That was basically _why_ I said it. I do have a sense of humor; it just is out there sometimes. :p Two points to it: 1) I ve always felt more
        Message 3 of 5 , Feb 5, 2004
          > *chuckle* Tir, do you realize the irony in what you just said?

          Totally. That was basically _why_ I said it. I do have a sense of humor;
          it just is "out there" sometimes. :p

          Two points to it:

          1) I've always felt more comfortable looking at raw data than through
          screens. Even if the editors worked perfectly, I'd still be using a text
          editor. Even if it took me longer.

          2) Priorities like getting more sources in sooner, fixing bugs faster, etc.
          don't even lend me the time to test the LST editors...

          Besides, Doug keeps telling me we'll have XML soon, and the code monkeys
          keep talking about code seperation. Both of those will help solve the
          editor issue. Doug spends a lot of time on XML these days. I don't spend
          near enough time looking at it and giving him feedback.. There are only so
          many hours in the day.

          Tir Gwaith
          LST Chimp
        • Michael Tucker
          ... I know. But of course, that sort of begs the issue of why there s a LST editor in the first place (for people who aren t like you). ... Too true, my
          Message 4 of 5 , Feb 5, 2004
            On Thursday, February 5, 2004, at 08:57 PM, Tir Gwaith wrote:

            >> *chuckle* Tir, do you realize the irony in what you just said?
            >
            > Totally. That was basically _why_ I said it. I do have a sense of
            > humor;
            > it just is "out there" sometimes. :p
            >

            :-)

            > Two points to it:
            >
            > 1) I've always felt more comfortable looking at raw data than through
            > screens. Even if the editors worked perfectly, I'd still be using a
            > text
            > editor. Even if it took me longer.
            >

            I know. But of course, that sort of begs the issue of why there's a LST
            editor in the first place (for people who aren't like you).

            > 2) Priorities like getting more sources in sooner, fixing bugs faster,
            > etc.
            > don't even lend me the time to test the LST editors...
            >
            > ... There are only so
            > many hours in the day.
            >
            > Tir Gwaith
            > LST Chimp
            >

            Too true, my friend. I'm still scrambling to adjust to me new
            (non)employment status. Once I get some annoying but critically
            important administrative matters taken care of, maybe I can finally,
            finally lend a hand instead of just words of advice and encouragement
            (or abuse, depending on how you take them).

            ~ Java Kensai
          • Loyal
            As evidenced by my slough of posts recently, I also have a new (non) employment status. Of course, I am using my new found time to perfect my dungeon
            Message 5 of 5 , Feb 5, 2004
              As evidenced by my slough of posts recently, I also have a new (non)
              employment status. Of course, I am using my new found time to
              perfect my dungeon mastering instead of something useful like
              learning to code in java. ;-)

              I guess this is as close as it gets to commiserating over beverages
              via the internet...


              -Loyal

              --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Michael Tucker <mtucker@a...> wrote:
              >
              > Too true, my friend. I'm still scrambling to adjust to me new
              > (non)employment status. Once I get some annoying but critically
              > important administrative matters taken care of, maybe I can
              finally,
              > finally lend a hand instead of just words of advice and
              encouragement
              > (or abuse, depending on how you take them).
              >
              > ~ Java Kensai
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