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Re: Favored Enemy Choices

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  • Jeremy Turnley
    That s why I was asking, too. It s not very bright to choose the same race twice, but there s nothing stopping you. -Illy ... would you ...
    Message 1 of 25 , Jan 31, 2004
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      That's why I was asking, too. It's not very bright to choose the
      same race twice, but there's nothing stopping you.

      -Illy

      --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Barak" <barak@v...> wrote:
      > But you can choose the same favored enemy again under 3.5, so why
      would you
      > want to exclude a previously chosen one?
      >
      > Barak
      > ~PCGen BoD
      > ~OS Silverback
      >
      >
      > > -----Original Message-----
      > > From: Loyal [mailto:loyalp@c...]
      > >
      > > No, 3.5. Check my note at the bottom of the post. :)
      > >
      > > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Jeremy Turnley"
      <jeremyturnley@h...>
      > > wrote:
      > > > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Loyal" <loyalp@c...> wrote:
      > > > > So, when I gain a new Favored Enemy as a Ranger the Chooser
      pops
      > > > up
      > > > > the complete list to choose from. Ideally, the complete list
      > > > MINUS
      > > > > any previously selected Favored Enemies should pop-up.
      > > > >
      > > > > Is there some way to code the CHOOSE tag to exclude an entry
      from
      > > > the
      > > > > given list if that selection has previously been made with
      the
      > > > > character?
      > > >
      > > > I'm assuming you are using te 3.0 rules?
      > >
    • Loyal
      Here s relevant text from the RSRD: Favored Enemy (Ex): At 1st level, a ranger may select a type of creature from among those given on Table: Ranger Favored
      Message 2 of 25 , Jan 31, 2004
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        Here's relevant text from the RSRD:

        "Favored Enemy (Ex): At 1st level, a ranger may select a type of
        creature from among those given on Table: Ranger Favored Enemies. The
        ranger gains a +2 bonus on Bluff, Listen, Sense Motive, Spot, and
        Survival checks when using these skills against creatures of this
        type. Likewise, he gets a +2 bonus on weapon damage rolls against
        such creatures.
        At 5th level and every five levels thereafter (10th, 15th, and 20th
        level), the ranger may select an additional favored enemy from those
        given on the table. In addition, at each such interval, the bonus
        against any one favored enemy (including the one just selected, if so
        desired) increases by 2."

        So, yep, I'm wrong in my thinking. And to be honest, I completely
        don't understand what they've written here! My interpretation is
        that you get the base +2 bonus whenever an enemy is selected, and you
        also get another +2 to allocate every 5 levels. But maybe you only
        get a flat +2 to play with at every favored enemy choice? If I have
        a 5th level ranger how does it work:

        1st Enemy +4
        2nd Enemy +2

        or

        1st Enemy +2
        2nd Enemy +4

        or

        1st Enemy +2
        2nd Enemy +2

        or

        1st Enemy +4
        2nd Enemy +0

        or what? This wording is exceptionally poor...

        This is really bizarre because if it works like I think it works,
        then you would really be a dim bulb to choose the same favored enemy
        again...


        -Loyal

        --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Jeremy Turnley" <jeremyturnley@h...>
        wrote:
        > That's why I was asking, too. It's not very bright to choose the
        > same race twice, but there's nothing stopping you.
        >
        > -Illy
        >
        > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Barak" <barak@v...> wrote:
        > > But you can choose the same favored enemy again under 3.5, so why
        > would you
        > > want to exclude a previously chosen one?
        > >
        > > Barak
        > > ~PCGen BoD
        > > ~OS Silverback
        > >
        > >
      • James Dempsey
        Hi Loyal, ... From: Loyal To: Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 1:46 PM Subject: [pcgen] Re: Favored Enemy Choices ...
        Message 3 of 25 , Jan 31, 2004
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          Hi Loyal,

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Loyal" <loyalp@...>
          To: <pcgen@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 1:46 PM
          Subject: [pcgen] Re: Favored Enemy Choices


          > Here's relevant text from the RSRD:
          >
          > "Favored Enemy (Ex): At 1st level, a ranger may select a type of
          > creature from among those given on Table: Ranger Favored Enemies. The
          > ranger gains a +2 bonus on Bluff, Listen, Sense Motive, Spot, and
          > Survival checks when using these skills against creatures of this
          > type. Likewise, he gets a +2 bonus on weapon damage rolls against
          > such creatures.
          > At 5th level and every five levels thereafter (10th, 15th, and 20th
          > level), the ranger may select an additional favored enemy from those
          > given on the table. In addition, at each such interval, the bonus
          > against any one favored enemy (including the one just selected, if so
          > desired) increases by 2."
          >
          > So, yep, I'm wrong in my thinking. And to be honest, I completely
          > don't understand what they've written here! My interpretation is
          > that you get the base +2 bonus whenever an enemy is selected, and you
          > also get another +2 to allocate every 5 levels. But maybe you only
          > get a flat +2 to play with at every favored enemy choice? If I have
          > a 5th level ranger how does it work:
          >
          > 1st Enemy +4
          > 2nd Enemy +2
          >
          > or
          >
          > 1st Enemy +2
          > 2nd Enemy +4
          >
          The way I read it you have a choice of these two above. You *must* add a
          *new* enemy type and then you must choose one of your enemy types to add
          another +2 to your benefits. So at 10th level you would have 3 types of
          favoured enemies, each at a minimum of +2, but you have 2 other +2s to
          spread around. So you could have 1 at +2 and 2 at +4 or 2 at +2 and the
          other at +6

          > or
          >
          > 1st Enemy +2
          > 2nd Enemy +2
          >
          > or
          >
          > 1st Enemy +4
          > 2nd Enemy +0
          >
          Nope these would not be legal.

          > or what? This wording is exceptionally poor...
          >
          > This is really bizarre because if it works like I think it works,
          > then you would really be a dim bulb to choose the same favored enemy
          > again...
          >
          I guess the key thing is that there are 2 choices - the first from the set
          of all enemies except the ones you already have, and the second choice from
          the set of favoured enemies you already have (including the one chosen in
          the first choice).

          Cheers,
          -------------------------------------------
          James Dempsey
          JDempsey@...
          PCGEN Code Monkey
        • notmousse@aol.com
          loyalp sez... So, yep, I m wrong in my thinking. And to be honest, I completely don t understand what they ve written here! My interpretation is that you
          Message 4 of 25 , Feb 1, 2004
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            loyalp sez...

            'So, yep, I'm wrong in my thinking. And to be honest, I completely don't
            understand what they've written here! My interpretation is that you get the base
            +2 bonus whenever an enemy is selected, and you also get another +2 to
            allocate every 5 levels.'

            Sounds like you got it right. You pick an enemy to get your bonuses from,
            then the next time you pick another enemy. On top of the second enemy you
            picked you get another +2 for an enemy you've already selected.

            So you could have this:

            1st enemy dorks +2
            5th enemy dorks +4, spasses +2

            or

            1st enemy dorks +2
            5th enemy dorks +2, spasses +4

            And at higher levels you could put all your bonuses (bonii?) towards one
            enemy type (jocks) for a +10 hee hee.

            NotMousse
            TM Tamarin

            I mean, if I can't even get a discount out of someone else's misfortune,
            what's the point?
            -MisterTambo, founding member of the League of Unemployed Gentlemen


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Kuni Tetsu
            ... More specifically, you cannot put the +6 on the 3rd Enemy, but you could on either of the other two. When the third enemy is chosen, it gets an initial
            Message 5 of 25 , Feb 1, 2004
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              At 01:59 PM 2/1/2004 +1100, you wrote:
              > > 1st Enemy +4
              > > 2nd Enemy +2
              > >
              > > or
              > >
              > > 1st Enemy +2
              > > 2nd Enemy +4
              > >
              >The way I read it you have a choice of these two above. You *must* add a
              >*new* enemy type and then you must choose one of your enemy types to add
              >another +2 to your benefits. So at 10th level you would have 3 types of
              >favoured enemies, each at a minimum of +2, but you have 2 other +2s to
              >spread around. So you could have 1 at +2 and 2 at +4 or 2 at +2 and the
              >other at +6

              More specifically, you cannot put the +6 on the 3rd Enemy, but you could on
              either of the other two. When the third enemy is chosen, it gets an initial
              value of +2 and you can add the "bump-up" to it, but you could not add the
              bump-up from 5th level.
            • Loyal
              And that s the reasoning for my original post about the CHOOSE tag and removing the original enemy selection from subsequent selections. I was blown away at
              Message 6 of 25 , Feb 1, 2004
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                And that's the reasoning for my original post about the CHOOSE tag
                and removing the original enemy selection from subsequent
                selections. I was blown away at the posts asking what the heck I was
                talking about.

                ;-)

                --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, notmousse@a... wrote:
                > loyalp sez...
                >
                > 'So, yep, I'm wrong in my thinking. And to be honest, I completely
                don't
                > understand what they've written here! My interpretation is that
                you get the base
                > +2 bonus whenever an enemy is selected, and you also get another +2
                to
                > allocate every 5 levels.'
                >
                > Sounds like you got it right. You pick an enemy to get your
                bonuses from,
                > then the next time you pick another enemy. On top of the second
                enemy you
                > picked you get another +2 for an enemy you've already selected.
                >
              • Matt Haffner
                Personally, I think we really need two CHOOSE boxes here to make it clear to the user what they are doing. The first is the new enemy selection and should
                Message 7 of 25 , Feb 1, 2004
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                  Personally, I think we really need two CHOOSE boxes here to make it
                  clear to the user what they are doing. The first is the new enemy
                  selection and should consist of a choose box with enemies the ranger
                  has NOT yet selected. The selected enemy gets a +2 bonus. Then, for
                  every level but first, a second box should come up with the ranger's
                  current selections (including the one just chosen moments ago) to
                  assign the additional +2 'free' bonus.

                  Programatically, there are a few choices to make this easier on the
                  tags, but I'm not an expert on what syntax is already coded. I'm out of
                  time right now, but I'll try to plunk down an idea or two I had later.

                  On Feb 1, 2004, at 11:40 AM, Loyal wrote:

                  > And that's the reasoning for my original post about the CHOOSE tag
                  > and removing the original enemy selection from subsequent
                  > selections. I was blown away at the posts asking what the heck I was
                  > talking about.
                  >
                  > ;-)
                  >
                  > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, notmousse@a... wrote:
                  >> loyalp sez...
                  >>
                  >> 'So, yep, I'm wrong in my thinking. And to be honest, I completely
                  > don't
                  >> understand what they've written here! My interpretation is that
                  > you get the base
                  >> +2 bonus whenever an enemy is selected, and you also get another +2
                  > to
                  >> allocate every 5 levels.'
                  >>
                  >> Sounds like you got it right. You pick an enemy to get your
                  > bonuses from,
                  >> then the next time you pick another enemy. On top of the second
                  > enemy you
                  >> picked you get another +2 for an enemy you've already selected.
                  >>
                  >
                  mh - ZansForCans
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                • Loyal
                  Uh, there are two boxes coming up, and it is working this way. That s what I tried to mention in my initial post. The only piece not working is the choosing of
                  Message 8 of 25 , Feb 1, 2004
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                    Uh, there are two boxes coming up, and it is working this way.
                    That's what I tried to mention in my initial post.

                    The only piece not working is the choosing of enemies that are NOT
                    yet selected. Hence my original question here about making CHOOSE
                    somehow do that. It would be a programmatic change then, and not
                    some sort of existing feature to the CHOOSE tag?

                    I feel like I've now gone full circle and come back to my original
                    post...


                    -Loyal



                    --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Matt Haffner <haffner@a...> wrote:
                    > Personally, I think we really need two CHOOSE boxes here to make it
                    > clear to the user what they are doing. The first is the new enemy
                    > selection and should consist of a choose box with enemies the
                    ranger
                    > has NOT yet selected. The selected enemy gets a +2 bonus. Then, for
                    > every level but first, a second box should come up with the
                    ranger's
                    > current selections (including the one just chosen moments ago) to
                    > assign the additional +2 'free' bonus.
                    >
                    > Programatically, there are a few choices to make this easier on the
                    > tags, but I'm not an expert on what syntax is already coded. I'm
                    out of
                    > time right now, but I'll try to plunk down an idea or two I had
                    later.
                    >
                    > On Feb 1, 2004, at 11:40 AM, Loyal wrote:
                    >
                    > > And that's the reasoning for my original post about the CHOOSE tag
                    > > and removing the original enemy selection from subsequent
                    > > selections. I was blown away at the posts asking what the heck I
                    was
                    > > talking about.
                    > >
                    > > ;-)
                    > >
                    > > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, notmousse@a... wrote:
                    > >> loyalp sez...
                    > >>
                    > >> 'So, yep, I'm wrong in my thinking. And to be honest, I
                    completely
                    > > don't
                    > >> understand what they've written here! My interpretation is that
                    > > you get the base
                    > >> +2 bonus whenever an enemy is selected, and you also get another
                    +2
                    > > to
                    > >> allocate every 5 levels.'
                    > >>
                    > >> Sounds like you got it right. You pick an enemy to get your
                    > > bonuses from,
                    > >> then the next time you pick another enemy. On top of the second
                    > > enemy you
                    > >> picked you get another +2 for an enemy you've already selected.
                    > >>
                    > >
                    > mh - ZansForCans
                    > --
                    > Group Editing & Authoring Support
                    > flexible campaign management for the web
                    > info :: http://www.codefuries.com/geas.php
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                  • Matt Haffner
                    ... That s what I get for talking out of my butt without trying it myself ... I certainly don t know enough LST syntax yet myself to know if that can be done,
                    Message 9 of 25 , Feb 1, 2004
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                      On Feb 1, 2004, at 4:39 PM, Loyal wrote:
                      > Uh, there are two boxes coming up, and it is working this way.
                      > That's what I tried to mention in my initial post.
                      >
                      > The only piece not working is the choosing of enemies that are NOT
                      > yet selected. Hence my original question here about making CHOOSE
                      > somehow do that. It would be a programmatic change then, and not
                      > some sort of existing feature to the CHOOSE tag?

                      That's what I get for talking out of my butt without trying it myself
                      :/ I was interpolating from the postings. Sorry.

                      I certainly don't know enough LST syntax yet myself to know if that can
                      be done, but it seems to me more like something that would have to come
                      from code. Looking at what's there now, I was a bit surprised to see
                      the favored enemy list explicitly there repeated for each favored
                      enemy. Wouldn't it be safer to make that list a group of items with a
                      new type and then specified only once?

                      One thing that might help is to make it work kind of like the Languages
                      chooser where an already selected item is listed in the lower box even
                      if you invoke the chooser some time later. But that box also does not
                      exclude items from the upper list that are already in the lower. Maybe
                      this is a general feature of choosers that could be added?

                      I think it also would be very helpful if the entries for the bonus box
                      resolved to the actual enemies you've chosen. I'll try to FREQ this if
                      it's not around already...

                      All that being said, I think I hit a real bug when testing. I added 6
                      ranger levels and got to select my 2 favored enemies and the 5th level
                      bonus without trouble. Then I added 4 more levels. The favored enemy
                      box came up OK, but the bonus box only listed the 2nd and 3rd favored
                      enemies for selection. Can someone else confirm this (5.5.9). I'll put
                      up the tracker for it.

                      mh - ZansForCans
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                      Group Editing & Authoring Support
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                    • Paul Grosse
                      I think you are missing a crucial wording here. Favored Enemy (Ex): At 1st level, a ranger may select a type of creature
                      Message 10 of 25 , Feb 2, 2004
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                        I think you are missing a crucial wording here.

                        <snip of Paul "Yes that Paul" Grosse>
                        Favored Enemy (Ex): At 1st level, a ranger may select a type of creature
                        from among those given on Table: Ranger Favored Enemies. The ranger
                        gains a +2 bonus on Bluff, Listen, Sense Motive, Spot, and Survival
                        checks when using these skills against creatures of this type. Likewise,
                        he gets a +2 bonus on weapon damage rolls against such creatures.
                        At 5th level and every five levels thereafter (10th, 15th, and 20th
                        level), the ranger *may* select an additional favored enemy from those
                        given on the table. In addition, at each such interval, the bonus
                        against any one favored enemy (including the one just selected, if so
                        desired) increases by 2.
                        If the ranger chooses humanoids or outsiders as a favored enemy, he must
                        also choose an associated subtype, as indicated on the table. If a
                        specific creature falls into more than one category of favored enemy,
                        the ranger's bonuses do not stack; he simply uses whichever bonus is
                        higher.
                        </snip of ClassesII.rtf>

                        Look at the emphasis that I included the word "may" suggests that the
                        person doesn't HAVE to pick another enemy he can choose the same enemy
                        again. So you would have the following.

                        1st level, Dragons +2
                        5th level, Dragons +6 (+2 originally, +2 for 2nd enemy, +2 for previous
                        selection)
                        10th level, Dragons +10 (+6 originally, +2 for 2nd enemy, +2 for
                        previous selection)
                        15th level, Dragons +14 (+10 originally, +2 for 2nd enemy, +2 for
                        previous selection)
                        20th level, Dragons +18 (+14 originally, +2 for 2nd enemy, +2 for
                        previous selection)

                        So if a ranger only wanted to focus on one enemy it would get very nasty
                        :)

                        Paul "Yes that Paul" Grosse
                        PCGen OGL Chimp & LST Lemur-in-training
                        ICQ: 14397299
                        AO: Nylan
                        Various forums: Nylan (or Nylanfs)

                        "The Earth is just too small and fragile a basket for the human race to
                        keep all it's eggs in." - Robert Heinlein
                      • magus1972
                        ... ... previous ... Alternately: 1st Level, Dragons +2 5th Level, Dragons +6 (+2 for 2nd enemy, +4 for 1st enemy) 10th Level, Dragons +12 (+2 for 3rd
                        Message 11 of 25 , Feb 2, 2004
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                          --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Grosse" <paul.grosse@m...> wrote:

                          <SNIP!>

                          > again. So you would have the following.
                          >
                          > 1st level, Dragons +2
                          > 5th level, Dragons +6 (+2 originally, +2 for 2nd enemy, +2 for
                          previous
                          > selection)
                          > 10th level, Dragons +10 (+6 originally, +2 for 2nd enemy, +2 for
                          > previous selection)
                          > 15th level, Dragons +14 (+10 originally, +2 for 2nd enemy, +2 for
                          > previous selection)
                          > 20th level, Dragons +18 (+14 originally, +2 for 2nd enemy, +2 for
                          > previous selection)
                          >

                          Alternately:

                          1st Level, Dragons +2
                          5th Level, Dragons +6 (+2 for 2nd enemy, +4 for 1st enemy)
                          10th Level, Dragons +12 (+2 for 3rd enemy, +4 for 2nd enemy, +6 for
                          3rd enemy)
                          15th Level, Dragons +20 (+2 for 4th enemy, +4 for 3rd enemy, +6 for
                          2nd enemy, +8 for 1st enemy)
                          20th Level, Dragons +30 (+2 for 5th enemy, +4 for 4th enemy, +6 for
                          3rd enemy, +8 for 2nd enemy, +10 for 1st enemy)

                          > So if a ranger only wanted to focus on one enemy it would get very
                          nasty
                          > :)

                          Nasty indeed!

                          >
                          > Paul "Yes that Paul" Grosse
                          > PCGen OGL Chimp & LST Lemur-in-training
                          > ICQ: 14397299
                          > AO: Nylan
                          > Various forums: Nylan (or Nylanfs)
                          >
                          > "The Earth is just too small and fragile a basket for the human
                          race to
                          > keep all it's eggs in." - Robert Heinlein

                          Magus1972
                        • Loyal
                          Since the RSRD specifies that the only enemies you can choose are those listed on the table, what happens when a DM wants to customize that list? Or when an
                          Message 12 of 25 , Feb 2, 2004
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                            Since the RSRD specifies that the only enemies you can choose are
                            those listed on the table, what happens when a DM wants to customize
                            that list? Or when an accessory adds to that list?

                            Is there an easy mechanism to modify the existing method of Favored
                            Enemy?


                            -Loyal
                          • Hetter
                            ... One thing though, Paul. *Favored Enemy (Ex):* The epic ranger gains one additional favored enemy, and his or her bonuses against
                            Message 13 of 25 , Feb 2, 2004
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                              Paul Grosse wrote:

                              >I think you are missing a crucial wording here.
                              >
                              ><snip of Paul "Yes that Paul" Grosse>
                              >Favored Enemy (Ex): At 1st level, a ranger may select a type of creature
                              >from among those given on Table: Ranger Favored Enemies. The ranger
                              >gains a +2 bonus on Bluff, Listen, Sense Motive, Spot, and Survival
                              >checks when using these skills against creatures of this type. Likewise,
                              >he gets a +2 bonus on weapon damage rolls against such creatures.
                              >At 5th level and every five levels thereafter (10th, 15th, and 20th
                              >level), the ranger *may* select an additional favored enemy from those
                              >given on the table. In addition, at each such interval, the bonus
                              >against any one favored enemy (including the one just selected, if so
                              >desired) increases by 2.
                              >If the ranger chooses humanoids or outsiders as a favored enemy, he must
                              >also choose an associated subtype, as indicated on the table. If a
                              >specific creature falls into more than one category of favored enemy,
                              >the ranger's bonuses do not stack; he simply uses whichever bonus is
                              >higher.
                              ></snip of ClassesII.rtf>
                              >
                              >
                              One thing though, Paul.
                              <snip of EpicClasses.rtf>

                              *Favored Enemy (Ex):* The epic ranger gains one additional favored
                              enemy, and his or her bonuses against one category of favored enemies
                              goes up by +2, every five levels higher than 20th.

                              </snip of EpicClasses.rtf>
                              and
                              <snip of EpicFeats.rtf>

                              BANE OF ENEMIES [EPIC]

                              *Prerequisites:* Survival 24 ranks, five or more favored enemies.

                              </snip of EpicClasses.rtf>

                              I think those two things from the Epic SRD makes it clear the ranger
                              chooses a new favored enemy each time.

                              --
                              Hetter
                              Special Projects Silverback
                              PCGen Bod
                            • Matt Haffner
                              ... may = is allowed to . It also says that for the 1st level pick. Finally, it says ...may select an *additional* favored enemy , not any you have selected
                              Message 14 of 25 , Feb 2, 2004
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                                On Feb 2, 2004, at 8:19 AM, Paul Grosse wrote:

                                > I think you are missing a crucial wording here.

                                may = 'is allowed to'. It also says that for the 1st level pick.
                                Finally, it says "...may select an *additional* favored enemy", not any
                                you have selected already.

                                Even if you want to read it as 'can, if they want to', it does not say
                                that if you choose the same enemy you get an bonus +2 by picking the
                                same enemy as multiple favorites. Every favored enemy gets the +2
                                bonus. Then, it says you get a +2 in addition at each 5th level to
                                distribute among your favored enemies. This is not picking them again,
                                it's just a bonus you get to distribute to one you've picked already.
                                So, if you choose not to pick a favored enemy at 5th level, you sill
                                have only a max of +4 for your original pick at 1st level.

                                The wording seems very clear to me...

                                mh - ZansForCans
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                              • Matt Haffner
                                ... They are hard-coded in the feats_hidden2 file right now. This goes along with what I was saying above about separating these out into their own LST group
                                Message 15 of 25 , Feb 2, 2004
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                                  On Feb 2, 2004, at 11:06 AM, Loyal wrote:

                                  > Since the RSRD specifies that the only enemies you can choose are
                                  > those listed on the table, what happens when a DM wants to customize
                                  > that list? Or when an accessory adds to that list?
                                  >
                                  > Is there an easy mechanism to modify the existing method of Favored

                                  They are hard-coded in the feats_hidden2 file right now. This goes
                                  along with what I was saying above about separating these out into
                                  their own LST group with a TYPE modifier. Then you have only one list,
                                  and in addition, it would be easy to add members to the list with
                                  editing in one place or by appending through new sources.

                                  mh - ZansForCans
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                                • Jeremy Turnley
                                  ... not any ... say ... the ... again, ... already. ... sill ... Looking back at them I agree (and was just writing a post saying the same thing when yours
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Feb 2, 2004
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                                    --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Matt Haffner <haffner@a...> wrote:
                                    > On Feb 2, 2004, at 8:19 AM, Paul Grosse wrote:
                                    >
                                    > > I think you are missing a crucial wording here.
                                    >
                                    > may = 'is allowed to'. It also says that for the 1st level pick.
                                    > Finally, it says "...may select an *additional* favored enemy",
                                    not any
                                    > you have selected already.
                                    >
                                    > Even if you want to read it as 'can, if they want to', it does not
                                    say
                                    > that if you choose the same enemy you get an bonus +2 by picking
                                    the
                                    > same enemy as multiple favorites. Every favored enemy gets the +2
                                    > bonus. Then, it says you get a +2 in addition at each 5th level to
                                    > distribute among your favored enemies. This is not picking them
                                    again,
                                    > it's just a bonus you get to distribute to one you've picked
                                    already.
                                    > So, if you choose not to pick a favored enemy at 5th level, you
                                    sill
                                    > have only a max of +4 for your original pick at 1st level.
                                    >
                                    > The wording seems very clear to me...

                                    Looking back at them I agree (and was just writing a post saying the
                                    same thing when yours came in ;) You don't HAVE to take another
                                    race, but if you do, it has to be a different one from one you
                                    already have.

                                    -Illy
                                  • Loyal
                                    It seems very clear that is how it works. (Especially since that is what I read the first time, hehehe.) You may put the bonus gained at subsequent levels on
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Feb 2, 2004
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                                      It seems very clear that is how it works. (Especially since that is
                                      what I read the first time, hehehe.)

                                      You may put the bonus gained at subsequent levels on that initial
                                      choice, but you don't actually get to select that choice again. The
                                      wording does show that you could choose not to select another enemy,
                                      but that reckons back to the "dim bulb" statement from earlier posts.

                                      -Loyal


                                      --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Matt Haffner <haffner@a...> wrote:
                                      > On Feb 2, 2004, at 8:19 AM, Paul Grosse wrote:
                                      >
                                      > > I think you are missing a crucial wording here.
                                      >
                                      > may = 'is allowed to'. It also says that for the 1st level pick.
                                      > Finally, it says "...may select an *additional* favored enemy", not
                                      any
                                      > you have selected already.
                                      >
                                      > Even if you want to read it as 'can, if they want to', it does not
                                      say
                                      > that if you choose the same enemy you get an bonus +2 by picking
                                      the
                                      > same enemy as multiple favorites. Every favored enemy gets the +2
                                      > bonus. Then, it says you get a +2 in addition at each 5th level to
                                      > distribute among your favored enemies. This is not picking them
                                      again,
                                      > it's just a bonus you get to distribute to one you've picked
                                      already.
                                      > So, if you choose not to pick a favored enemy at 5th level, you
                                      sill
                                      > have only a max of +4 for your original pick at 1st level.
                                      >
                                      > The wording seems very clear to me...
                                      >
                                      > mh - ZansForCans
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                                    • Loyal
                                      Completely agree. Favored Enemy is working right now as is, but it s definitely not 100% and could be adjusted to work better for customization and growth.
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Feb 2, 2004
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                                        Completely agree. Favored Enemy is "working" right now as is, but
                                        it's definitely not 100% and could be adjusted to work better for
                                        customization and growth.

                                        I'll see what I can come up with when I have some free cycles...

                                        --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Matt Haffner <haffner@a...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > They are hard-coded in the feats_hidden2 file right now. This goes
                                        > along with what I was saying above about separating these out into
                                        > their own LST group with a TYPE modifier. Then you have only one
                                        list,
                                        > and in addition, it would be easy to add members to the list with
                                        > editing in one place or by appending through new sources.
                                        >
                                        > mh - ZansForCans
                                      • Stephen L Johnson
                                        ... I agree with Hetter. I think you are reading too much into wording. To me the RSD passage says: if RangerLevel = 5 and a multiple of 5 then if ( Desired
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Feb 2, 2004
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                                          On Mon, 2004-02-02 at 11:11, Hetter wrote:
                                          > Paul Grosse wrote:
                                          > >At 5th level and every five levels thereafter (10th, 15th, and 20th
                                          > >level), the ranger *may* select an additional favored enemy from
                                          > those
                                          > >given on the table. In addition, at each such interval, the bonus
                                          > >against any one favored enemy (including the one just selected, if so
                                          > >desired) increases by 2.
                                          > ></snip of ClassesII.rtf>
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > One thing though, Paul.
                                          > <snip of EpicClasses.rtf>
                                          >
                                          > *Favored Enemy (Ex):* The epic ranger gains one additional favored
                                          > enemy, and his or her bonuses against one category of favored enemies
                                          > goes up by +2, every five levels higher than 20th.
                                          >
                                          > </snip of EpicClasses.rtf>
                                          > and
                                          > <snip of EpicFeats.rtf>
                                          >
                                          > BANE OF ENEMIES [EPIC]
                                          >
                                          > *Prerequisites:* Survival 24 ranks, five or more favored enemies.
                                          >
                                          > </snip of EpicClasses.rtf>
                                          >
                                          > I think those two things from the Epic SRD makes it clear the ranger
                                          > chooses a new favored enemy each time.

                                          I agree with Hetter. I think you are reading too much into wording. To
                                          me the RSD passage says:

                                          if RangerLevel >= 5 and a multiple of 5 then
                                          if ( Desired ) then
                                          Choice Another Favored Enemy
                                          else
                                          NOP ; do nothing

                                          --
                                          Stephen L Johnson <sjohnson@...>

                                          "Never tangle with a geek when source code is on the line." - Frank
                                          Sorenson
                                        • Matt Haffner
                                          ... This was originally something I posted up in the favored enemy thread. I think I found this bug. The Bonus to xxx Favored Enemy feats in
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Feb 5, 2004
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                                            On Feb 2, 2004, at 12:40 AM, Matt Haffner wrote:

                                            > All that being said, I think I hit a real bug when testing. I added 6
                                            > ranger levels and got to select my 2 favored enemies and the 5th level
                                            > bonus without trouble. Then I added 4 more levels. The favored enemy
                                            > box came up OK, but the bonus box only listed the 2nd and 3rd favored
                                            > enemies for selection. Can someone else confirm this (5.5.9). I'll put
                                            > up the tracker for it.

                                            This was originally something I posted up in the favored enemy thread.
                                            I think I found this bug.

                                            The "Bonus to xxx Favored Enemy" feats in rsrd_feats_hidden2 need
                                            MULT:YES tags. Otherwise, you never can pick the same bonus more than
                                            once.

                                            Do they need STACK:YES as well? Or does the
                                            TYPE=FavoredEnemyBonus.STACK take care of that completely?

                                            DM #891515

                                            I P9'ed it because it's potentially very limiting to Rangers. I hope
                                            that wasn't too presumtuous!

                                            mh - ZansForCans
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