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Favored Enemy Choices

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  • Loyal
    So, when I gain a new Favored Enemy as a Ranger the Chooser pops up the complete list to choose from. Ideally, the complete list MINUS any previously selected
    Message 1 of 25 , Jan 31, 2004
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      So, when I gain a new Favored Enemy as a Ranger the Chooser pops up
      the complete list to choose from. Ideally, the complete list MINUS
      any previously selected Favored Enemies should pop-up.

      Is there some way to code the CHOOSE tag to exclude an entry from the
      given list if that selection has previously been made with the
      character?

      So at level one the Chooser comes up and you see Cat, Dog, and
      Hamster:
      CHOOSE:NUMCHOICES=1|Cat|Dog|Hamster
      You pick Cat.

      At level 5 the Chooser comes up and you only see Dog and Hamster.
      CHOOSE:NUMCHOICES=1|Cat|Dog|Hamster|%something here that tells CHOOSE
      to remove any already existing selections%

      (Note: I'm not talking about the part where you select which choice
      has the bonus applied, just the first choose dialog.)


      -Loyal
    • Jeremy Turnley
      ... up ... MINUS ... the ... I m assuming you are using te 3.0 rules?
      Message 2 of 25 , Jan 31, 2004
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        --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Loyal" <loyalp@c...> wrote:
        > So, when I gain a new Favored Enemy as a Ranger the Chooser pops
        up
        > the complete list to choose from. Ideally, the complete list
        MINUS
        > any previously selected Favored Enemies should pop-up.
        >
        > Is there some way to code the CHOOSE tag to exclude an entry from
        the
        > given list if that selection has previously been made with the
        > character?

        I'm assuming you are using te 3.0 rules?
      • Tir Gwaith
        Not with the current code. We have different hidden feats for each of the Favored enemies, and we can t transfer previous CHOOSE remembers over to different
        Message 3 of 25 , Jan 31, 2004
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          Not with the current code. We have different hidden feats for each of the
          Favored enemies, and we can't transfer previous 'CHOOSE' remembers over to
          different objects.

          If you have a better idea, please bring it up on pcgen_experimental. I'd
          like to hear it.

          Tir Gwaith
          LST Chimp

          > So, when I gain a new Favored Enemy as a Ranger the Chooser pops up
          > the complete list to choose from. Ideally, the complete list MINUS
          > any previously selected Favored Enemies should pop-up.
          >
          > Is there some way to code the CHOOSE tag to exclude an entry from the
          > given list if that selection has previously been made with the
          > character?
          >
          > So at level one the Chooser comes up and you see Cat, Dog, and
          > Hamster:
          > CHOOSE:NUMCHOICES=1|Cat|Dog|Hamster
          > You pick Cat.
          >
          > At level 5 the Chooser comes up and you only see Dog and Hamster.
          > CHOOSE:NUMCHOICES=1|Cat|Dog|Hamster|%something here that tells CHOOSE
          > to remove any already existing selections%
          >
          > (Note: I'm not talking about the part where you select which choice
          > has the bonus applied, just the first choose dialog.)
          >
          >
          > -Loyal
          >
        • Loyal
          No, 3.5. Check my note at the bottom of the post. :)
          Message 4 of 25 , Jan 31, 2004
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            No, 3.5. Check my note at the bottom of the post. :)

            --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Jeremy Turnley" <jeremyturnley@h...>
            wrote:
            > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Loyal" <loyalp@c...> wrote:
            > > So, when I gain a new Favored Enemy as a Ranger the Chooser pops
            > up
            > > the complete list to choose from. Ideally, the complete list
            > MINUS
            > > any previously selected Favored Enemies should pop-up.
            > >
            > > Is there some way to code the CHOOSE tag to exclude an entry from
            > the
            > > given list if that selection has previously been made with the
            > > character?
            >
            > I'm assuming you are using te 3.0 rules?
          • Barak
            But you can choose the same favored enemy again under 3.5, so why would you want to exclude a previously chosen one? Barak ~PCGen BoD ~OS Silverback
            Message 5 of 25 , Jan 31, 2004
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              But you can choose the same favored enemy again under 3.5, so why would you
              want to exclude a previously chosen one?

              Barak
              ~PCGen BoD
              ~OS Silverback


              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: Loyal [mailto:loyalp@...]
              >
              > No, 3.5. Check my note at the bottom of the post. :)
              >
              > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Jeremy Turnley" <jeremyturnley@h...>
              > wrote:
              > > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Loyal" <loyalp@c...> wrote:
              > > > So, when I gain a new Favored Enemy as a Ranger the Chooser pops
              > > up
              > > > the complete list to choose from. Ideally, the complete list
              > > MINUS
              > > > any previously selected Favored Enemies should pop-up.
              > > >
              > > > Is there some way to code the CHOOSE tag to exclude an entry from
              > > the
              > > > given list if that selection has previously been made with the
              > > > character?
              > >
              > > I'm assuming you are using te 3.0 rules?
              >
            • Jeremy Turnley
              That s why I was asking, too. It s not very bright to choose the same race twice, but there s nothing stopping you. -Illy ... would you ...
              Message 6 of 25 , Jan 31, 2004
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                That's why I was asking, too. It's not very bright to choose the
                same race twice, but there's nothing stopping you.

                -Illy

                --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Barak" <barak@v...> wrote:
                > But you can choose the same favored enemy again under 3.5, so why
                would you
                > want to exclude a previously chosen one?
                >
                > Barak
                > ~PCGen BoD
                > ~OS Silverback
                >
                >
                > > -----Original Message-----
                > > From: Loyal [mailto:loyalp@c...]
                > >
                > > No, 3.5. Check my note at the bottom of the post. :)
                > >
                > > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Jeremy Turnley"
                <jeremyturnley@h...>
                > > wrote:
                > > > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Loyal" <loyalp@c...> wrote:
                > > > > So, when I gain a new Favored Enemy as a Ranger the Chooser
                pops
                > > > up
                > > > > the complete list to choose from. Ideally, the complete list
                > > > MINUS
                > > > > any previously selected Favored Enemies should pop-up.
                > > > >
                > > > > Is there some way to code the CHOOSE tag to exclude an entry
                from
                > > > the
                > > > > given list if that selection has previously been made with
                the
                > > > > character?
                > > >
                > > > I'm assuming you are using te 3.0 rules?
                > >
              • Loyal
                Here s relevant text from the RSRD: Favored Enemy (Ex): At 1st level, a ranger may select a type of creature from among those given on Table: Ranger Favored
                Message 7 of 25 , Jan 31, 2004
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                  Here's relevant text from the RSRD:

                  "Favored Enemy (Ex): At 1st level, a ranger may select a type of
                  creature from among those given on Table: Ranger Favored Enemies. The
                  ranger gains a +2 bonus on Bluff, Listen, Sense Motive, Spot, and
                  Survival checks when using these skills against creatures of this
                  type. Likewise, he gets a +2 bonus on weapon damage rolls against
                  such creatures.
                  At 5th level and every five levels thereafter (10th, 15th, and 20th
                  level), the ranger may select an additional favored enemy from those
                  given on the table. In addition, at each such interval, the bonus
                  against any one favored enemy (including the one just selected, if so
                  desired) increases by 2."

                  So, yep, I'm wrong in my thinking. And to be honest, I completely
                  don't understand what they've written here! My interpretation is
                  that you get the base +2 bonus whenever an enemy is selected, and you
                  also get another +2 to allocate every 5 levels. But maybe you only
                  get a flat +2 to play with at every favored enemy choice? If I have
                  a 5th level ranger how does it work:

                  1st Enemy +4
                  2nd Enemy +2

                  or

                  1st Enemy +2
                  2nd Enemy +4

                  or

                  1st Enemy +2
                  2nd Enemy +2

                  or

                  1st Enemy +4
                  2nd Enemy +0

                  or what? This wording is exceptionally poor...

                  This is really bizarre because if it works like I think it works,
                  then you would really be a dim bulb to choose the same favored enemy
                  again...


                  -Loyal

                  --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Jeremy Turnley" <jeremyturnley@h...>
                  wrote:
                  > That's why I was asking, too. It's not very bright to choose the
                  > same race twice, but there's nothing stopping you.
                  >
                  > -Illy
                  >
                  > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Barak" <barak@v...> wrote:
                  > > But you can choose the same favored enemy again under 3.5, so why
                  > would you
                  > > want to exclude a previously chosen one?
                  > >
                  > > Barak
                  > > ~PCGen BoD
                  > > ~OS Silverback
                  > >
                  > >
                • James Dempsey
                  Hi Loyal, ... From: Loyal To: Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 1:46 PM Subject: [pcgen] Re: Favored Enemy Choices ...
                  Message 8 of 25 , Jan 31, 2004
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                    Hi Loyal,

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Loyal" <loyalp@...>
                    To: <pcgen@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 1:46 PM
                    Subject: [pcgen] Re: Favored Enemy Choices


                    > Here's relevant text from the RSRD:
                    >
                    > "Favored Enemy (Ex): At 1st level, a ranger may select a type of
                    > creature from among those given on Table: Ranger Favored Enemies. The
                    > ranger gains a +2 bonus on Bluff, Listen, Sense Motive, Spot, and
                    > Survival checks when using these skills against creatures of this
                    > type. Likewise, he gets a +2 bonus on weapon damage rolls against
                    > such creatures.
                    > At 5th level and every five levels thereafter (10th, 15th, and 20th
                    > level), the ranger may select an additional favored enemy from those
                    > given on the table. In addition, at each such interval, the bonus
                    > against any one favored enemy (including the one just selected, if so
                    > desired) increases by 2."
                    >
                    > So, yep, I'm wrong in my thinking. And to be honest, I completely
                    > don't understand what they've written here! My interpretation is
                    > that you get the base +2 bonus whenever an enemy is selected, and you
                    > also get another +2 to allocate every 5 levels. But maybe you only
                    > get a flat +2 to play with at every favored enemy choice? If I have
                    > a 5th level ranger how does it work:
                    >
                    > 1st Enemy +4
                    > 2nd Enemy +2
                    >
                    > or
                    >
                    > 1st Enemy +2
                    > 2nd Enemy +4
                    >
                    The way I read it you have a choice of these two above. You *must* add a
                    *new* enemy type and then you must choose one of your enemy types to add
                    another +2 to your benefits. So at 10th level you would have 3 types of
                    favoured enemies, each at a minimum of +2, but you have 2 other +2s to
                    spread around. So you could have 1 at +2 and 2 at +4 or 2 at +2 and the
                    other at +6

                    > or
                    >
                    > 1st Enemy +2
                    > 2nd Enemy +2
                    >
                    > or
                    >
                    > 1st Enemy +4
                    > 2nd Enemy +0
                    >
                    Nope these would not be legal.

                    > or what? This wording is exceptionally poor...
                    >
                    > This is really bizarre because if it works like I think it works,
                    > then you would really be a dim bulb to choose the same favored enemy
                    > again...
                    >
                    I guess the key thing is that there are 2 choices - the first from the set
                    of all enemies except the ones you already have, and the second choice from
                    the set of favoured enemies you already have (including the one chosen in
                    the first choice).

                    Cheers,
                    -------------------------------------------
                    James Dempsey
                    JDempsey@...
                    PCGEN Code Monkey
                  • notmousse@aol.com
                    loyalp sez... So, yep, I m wrong in my thinking. And to be honest, I completely don t understand what they ve written here! My interpretation is that you
                    Message 9 of 25 , Feb 1, 2004
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                      loyalp sez...

                      'So, yep, I'm wrong in my thinking. And to be honest, I completely don't
                      understand what they've written here! My interpretation is that you get the base
                      +2 bonus whenever an enemy is selected, and you also get another +2 to
                      allocate every 5 levels.'

                      Sounds like you got it right. You pick an enemy to get your bonuses from,
                      then the next time you pick another enemy. On top of the second enemy you
                      picked you get another +2 for an enemy you've already selected.

                      So you could have this:

                      1st enemy dorks +2
                      5th enemy dorks +4, spasses +2

                      or

                      1st enemy dorks +2
                      5th enemy dorks +2, spasses +4

                      And at higher levels you could put all your bonuses (bonii?) towards one
                      enemy type (jocks) for a +10 hee hee.

                      NotMousse
                      TM Tamarin

                      I mean, if I can't even get a discount out of someone else's misfortune,
                      what's the point?
                      -MisterTambo, founding member of the League of Unemployed Gentlemen


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Kuni Tetsu
                      ... More specifically, you cannot put the +6 on the 3rd Enemy, but you could on either of the other two. When the third enemy is chosen, it gets an initial
                      Message 10 of 25 , Feb 1, 2004
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                        At 01:59 PM 2/1/2004 +1100, you wrote:
                        > > 1st Enemy +4
                        > > 2nd Enemy +2
                        > >
                        > > or
                        > >
                        > > 1st Enemy +2
                        > > 2nd Enemy +4
                        > >
                        >The way I read it you have a choice of these two above. You *must* add a
                        >*new* enemy type and then you must choose one of your enemy types to add
                        >another +2 to your benefits. So at 10th level you would have 3 types of
                        >favoured enemies, each at a minimum of +2, but you have 2 other +2s to
                        >spread around. So you could have 1 at +2 and 2 at +4 or 2 at +2 and the
                        >other at +6

                        More specifically, you cannot put the +6 on the 3rd Enemy, but you could on
                        either of the other two. When the third enemy is chosen, it gets an initial
                        value of +2 and you can add the "bump-up" to it, but you could not add the
                        bump-up from 5th level.
                      • Loyal
                        And that s the reasoning for my original post about the CHOOSE tag and removing the original enemy selection from subsequent selections. I was blown away at
                        Message 11 of 25 , Feb 1, 2004
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                          And that's the reasoning for my original post about the CHOOSE tag
                          and removing the original enemy selection from subsequent
                          selections. I was blown away at the posts asking what the heck I was
                          talking about.

                          ;-)

                          --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, notmousse@a... wrote:
                          > loyalp sez...
                          >
                          > 'So, yep, I'm wrong in my thinking. And to be honest, I completely
                          don't
                          > understand what they've written here! My interpretation is that
                          you get the base
                          > +2 bonus whenever an enemy is selected, and you also get another +2
                          to
                          > allocate every 5 levels.'
                          >
                          > Sounds like you got it right. You pick an enemy to get your
                          bonuses from,
                          > then the next time you pick another enemy. On top of the second
                          enemy you
                          > picked you get another +2 for an enemy you've already selected.
                          >
                        • Matt Haffner
                          Personally, I think we really need two CHOOSE boxes here to make it clear to the user what they are doing. The first is the new enemy selection and should
                          Message 12 of 25 , Feb 1, 2004
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                            Personally, I think we really need two CHOOSE boxes here to make it
                            clear to the user what they are doing. The first is the new enemy
                            selection and should consist of a choose box with enemies the ranger
                            has NOT yet selected. The selected enemy gets a +2 bonus. Then, for
                            every level but first, a second box should come up with the ranger's
                            current selections (including the one just chosen moments ago) to
                            assign the additional +2 'free' bonus.

                            Programatically, there are a few choices to make this easier on the
                            tags, but I'm not an expert on what syntax is already coded. I'm out of
                            time right now, but I'll try to plunk down an idea or two I had later.

                            On Feb 1, 2004, at 11:40 AM, Loyal wrote:

                            > And that's the reasoning for my original post about the CHOOSE tag
                            > and removing the original enemy selection from subsequent
                            > selections. I was blown away at the posts asking what the heck I was
                            > talking about.
                            >
                            > ;-)
                            >
                            > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, notmousse@a... wrote:
                            >> loyalp sez...
                            >>
                            >> 'So, yep, I'm wrong in my thinking. And to be honest, I completely
                            > don't
                            >> understand what they've written here! My interpretation is that
                            > you get the base
                            >> +2 bonus whenever an enemy is selected, and you also get another +2
                            > to
                            >> allocate every 5 levels.'
                            >>
                            >> Sounds like you got it right. You pick an enemy to get your
                            > bonuses from,
                            >> then the next time you pick another enemy. On top of the second
                            > enemy you
                            >> picked you get another +2 for an enemy you've already selected.
                            >>
                            >
                            mh - ZansForCans
                            --
                            Group Editing & Authoring Support
                            flexible campaign management for the web
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                          • Loyal
                            Uh, there are two boxes coming up, and it is working this way. That s what I tried to mention in my initial post. The only piece not working is the choosing of
                            Message 13 of 25 , Feb 1, 2004
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                              Uh, there are two boxes coming up, and it is working this way.
                              That's what I tried to mention in my initial post.

                              The only piece not working is the choosing of enemies that are NOT
                              yet selected. Hence my original question here about making CHOOSE
                              somehow do that. It would be a programmatic change then, and not
                              some sort of existing feature to the CHOOSE tag?

                              I feel like I've now gone full circle and come back to my original
                              post...


                              -Loyal



                              --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Matt Haffner <haffner@a...> wrote:
                              > Personally, I think we really need two CHOOSE boxes here to make it
                              > clear to the user what they are doing. The first is the new enemy
                              > selection and should consist of a choose box with enemies the
                              ranger
                              > has NOT yet selected. The selected enemy gets a +2 bonus. Then, for
                              > every level but first, a second box should come up with the
                              ranger's
                              > current selections (including the one just chosen moments ago) to
                              > assign the additional +2 'free' bonus.
                              >
                              > Programatically, there are a few choices to make this easier on the
                              > tags, but I'm not an expert on what syntax is already coded. I'm
                              out of
                              > time right now, but I'll try to plunk down an idea or two I had
                              later.
                              >
                              > On Feb 1, 2004, at 11:40 AM, Loyal wrote:
                              >
                              > > And that's the reasoning for my original post about the CHOOSE tag
                              > > and removing the original enemy selection from subsequent
                              > > selections. I was blown away at the posts asking what the heck I
                              was
                              > > talking about.
                              > >
                              > > ;-)
                              > >
                              > > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, notmousse@a... wrote:
                              > >> loyalp sez...
                              > >>
                              > >> 'So, yep, I'm wrong in my thinking. And to be honest, I
                              completely
                              > > don't
                              > >> understand what they've written here! My interpretation is that
                              > > you get the base
                              > >> +2 bonus whenever an enemy is selected, and you also get another
                              +2
                              > > to
                              > >> allocate every 5 levels.'
                              > >>
                              > >> Sounds like you got it right. You pick an enemy to get your
                              > > bonuses from,
                              > >> then the next time you pick another enemy. On top of the second
                              > > enemy you
                              > >> picked you get another +2 for an enemy you've already selected.
                              > >>
                              > >
                              > mh - ZansForCans
                              > --
                              > Group Editing & Authoring Support
                              > flexible campaign management for the web
                              > info :: http://www.codefuries.com/geas.php
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                            • Matt Haffner
                              ... That s what I get for talking out of my butt without trying it myself ... I certainly don t know enough LST syntax yet myself to know if that can be done,
                              Message 14 of 25 , Feb 1, 2004
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                                On Feb 1, 2004, at 4:39 PM, Loyal wrote:
                                > Uh, there are two boxes coming up, and it is working this way.
                                > That's what I tried to mention in my initial post.
                                >
                                > The only piece not working is the choosing of enemies that are NOT
                                > yet selected. Hence my original question here about making CHOOSE
                                > somehow do that. It would be a programmatic change then, and not
                                > some sort of existing feature to the CHOOSE tag?

                                That's what I get for talking out of my butt without trying it myself
                                :/ I was interpolating from the postings. Sorry.

                                I certainly don't know enough LST syntax yet myself to know if that can
                                be done, but it seems to me more like something that would have to come
                                from code. Looking at what's there now, I was a bit surprised to see
                                the favored enemy list explicitly there repeated for each favored
                                enemy. Wouldn't it be safer to make that list a group of items with a
                                new type and then specified only once?

                                One thing that might help is to make it work kind of like the Languages
                                chooser where an already selected item is listed in the lower box even
                                if you invoke the chooser some time later. But that box also does not
                                exclude items from the upper list that are already in the lower. Maybe
                                this is a general feature of choosers that could be added?

                                I think it also would be very helpful if the entries for the bonus box
                                resolved to the actual enemies you've chosen. I'll try to FREQ this if
                                it's not around already...

                                All that being said, I think I hit a real bug when testing. I added 6
                                ranger levels and got to select my 2 favored enemies and the 5th level
                                bonus without trouble. Then I added 4 more levels. The favored enemy
                                box came up OK, but the bonus box only listed the 2nd and 3rd favored
                                enemies for selection. Can someone else confirm this (5.5.9). I'll put
                                up the tracker for it.

                                mh - ZansForCans
                                --
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                              • Paul Grosse
                                I think you are missing a crucial wording here. Favored Enemy (Ex): At 1st level, a ranger may select a type of creature
                                Message 15 of 25 , Feb 2, 2004
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                                  I think you are missing a crucial wording here.

                                  <snip of Paul "Yes that Paul" Grosse>
                                  Favored Enemy (Ex): At 1st level, a ranger may select a type of creature
                                  from among those given on Table: Ranger Favored Enemies. The ranger
                                  gains a +2 bonus on Bluff, Listen, Sense Motive, Spot, and Survival
                                  checks when using these skills against creatures of this type. Likewise,
                                  he gets a +2 bonus on weapon damage rolls against such creatures.
                                  At 5th level and every five levels thereafter (10th, 15th, and 20th
                                  level), the ranger *may* select an additional favored enemy from those
                                  given on the table. In addition, at each such interval, the bonus
                                  against any one favored enemy (including the one just selected, if so
                                  desired) increases by 2.
                                  If the ranger chooses humanoids or outsiders as a favored enemy, he must
                                  also choose an associated subtype, as indicated on the table. If a
                                  specific creature falls into more than one category of favored enemy,
                                  the ranger's bonuses do not stack; he simply uses whichever bonus is
                                  higher.
                                  </snip of ClassesII.rtf>

                                  Look at the emphasis that I included the word "may" suggests that the
                                  person doesn't HAVE to pick another enemy he can choose the same enemy
                                  again. So you would have the following.

                                  1st level, Dragons +2
                                  5th level, Dragons +6 (+2 originally, +2 for 2nd enemy, +2 for previous
                                  selection)
                                  10th level, Dragons +10 (+6 originally, +2 for 2nd enemy, +2 for
                                  previous selection)
                                  15th level, Dragons +14 (+10 originally, +2 for 2nd enemy, +2 for
                                  previous selection)
                                  20th level, Dragons +18 (+14 originally, +2 for 2nd enemy, +2 for
                                  previous selection)

                                  So if a ranger only wanted to focus on one enemy it would get very nasty
                                  :)

                                  Paul "Yes that Paul" Grosse
                                  PCGen OGL Chimp & LST Lemur-in-training
                                  ICQ: 14397299
                                  AO: Nylan
                                  Various forums: Nylan (or Nylanfs)

                                  "The Earth is just too small and fragile a basket for the human race to
                                  keep all it's eggs in." - Robert Heinlein
                                • magus1972
                                  ... ... previous ... Alternately: 1st Level, Dragons +2 5th Level, Dragons +6 (+2 for 2nd enemy, +4 for 1st enemy) 10th Level, Dragons +12 (+2 for 3rd
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Feb 2, 2004
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                                    --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Grosse" <paul.grosse@m...> wrote:

                                    <SNIP!>

                                    > again. So you would have the following.
                                    >
                                    > 1st level, Dragons +2
                                    > 5th level, Dragons +6 (+2 originally, +2 for 2nd enemy, +2 for
                                    previous
                                    > selection)
                                    > 10th level, Dragons +10 (+6 originally, +2 for 2nd enemy, +2 for
                                    > previous selection)
                                    > 15th level, Dragons +14 (+10 originally, +2 for 2nd enemy, +2 for
                                    > previous selection)
                                    > 20th level, Dragons +18 (+14 originally, +2 for 2nd enemy, +2 for
                                    > previous selection)
                                    >

                                    Alternately:

                                    1st Level, Dragons +2
                                    5th Level, Dragons +6 (+2 for 2nd enemy, +4 for 1st enemy)
                                    10th Level, Dragons +12 (+2 for 3rd enemy, +4 for 2nd enemy, +6 for
                                    3rd enemy)
                                    15th Level, Dragons +20 (+2 for 4th enemy, +4 for 3rd enemy, +6 for
                                    2nd enemy, +8 for 1st enemy)
                                    20th Level, Dragons +30 (+2 for 5th enemy, +4 for 4th enemy, +6 for
                                    3rd enemy, +8 for 2nd enemy, +10 for 1st enemy)

                                    > So if a ranger only wanted to focus on one enemy it would get very
                                    nasty
                                    > :)

                                    Nasty indeed!

                                    >
                                    > Paul "Yes that Paul" Grosse
                                    > PCGen OGL Chimp & LST Lemur-in-training
                                    > ICQ: 14397299
                                    > AO: Nylan
                                    > Various forums: Nylan (or Nylanfs)
                                    >
                                    > "The Earth is just too small and fragile a basket for the human
                                    race to
                                    > keep all it's eggs in." - Robert Heinlein

                                    Magus1972
                                  • Loyal
                                    Since the RSRD specifies that the only enemies you can choose are those listed on the table, what happens when a DM wants to customize that list? Or when an
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Feb 2, 2004
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                                      Since the RSRD specifies that the only enemies you can choose are
                                      those listed on the table, what happens when a DM wants to customize
                                      that list? Or when an accessory adds to that list?

                                      Is there an easy mechanism to modify the existing method of Favored
                                      Enemy?


                                      -Loyal
                                    • Hetter
                                      ... One thing though, Paul. *Favored Enemy (Ex):* The epic ranger gains one additional favored enemy, and his or her bonuses against
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Feb 2, 2004
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                                        Paul Grosse wrote:

                                        >I think you are missing a crucial wording here.
                                        >
                                        ><snip of Paul "Yes that Paul" Grosse>
                                        >Favored Enemy (Ex): At 1st level, a ranger may select a type of creature
                                        >from among those given on Table: Ranger Favored Enemies. The ranger
                                        >gains a +2 bonus on Bluff, Listen, Sense Motive, Spot, and Survival
                                        >checks when using these skills against creatures of this type. Likewise,
                                        >he gets a +2 bonus on weapon damage rolls against such creatures.
                                        >At 5th level and every five levels thereafter (10th, 15th, and 20th
                                        >level), the ranger *may* select an additional favored enemy from those
                                        >given on the table. In addition, at each such interval, the bonus
                                        >against any one favored enemy (including the one just selected, if so
                                        >desired) increases by 2.
                                        >If the ranger chooses humanoids or outsiders as a favored enemy, he must
                                        >also choose an associated subtype, as indicated on the table. If a
                                        >specific creature falls into more than one category of favored enemy,
                                        >the ranger's bonuses do not stack; he simply uses whichever bonus is
                                        >higher.
                                        ></snip of ClassesII.rtf>
                                        >
                                        >
                                        One thing though, Paul.
                                        <snip of EpicClasses.rtf>

                                        *Favored Enemy (Ex):* The epic ranger gains one additional favored
                                        enemy, and his or her bonuses against one category of favored enemies
                                        goes up by +2, every five levels higher than 20th.

                                        </snip of EpicClasses.rtf>
                                        and
                                        <snip of EpicFeats.rtf>

                                        BANE OF ENEMIES [EPIC]

                                        *Prerequisites:* Survival 24 ranks, five or more favored enemies.

                                        </snip of EpicClasses.rtf>

                                        I think those two things from the Epic SRD makes it clear the ranger
                                        chooses a new favored enemy each time.

                                        --
                                        Hetter
                                        Special Projects Silverback
                                        PCGen Bod
                                      • Matt Haffner
                                        ... may = is allowed to . It also says that for the 1st level pick. Finally, it says ...may select an *additional* favored enemy , not any you have selected
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Feb 2, 2004
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                                          On Feb 2, 2004, at 8:19 AM, Paul Grosse wrote:

                                          > I think you are missing a crucial wording here.

                                          may = 'is allowed to'. It also says that for the 1st level pick.
                                          Finally, it says "...may select an *additional* favored enemy", not any
                                          you have selected already.

                                          Even if you want to read it as 'can, if they want to', it does not say
                                          that if you choose the same enemy you get an bonus +2 by picking the
                                          same enemy as multiple favorites. Every favored enemy gets the +2
                                          bonus. Then, it says you get a +2 in addition at each 5th level to
                                          distribute among your favored enemies. This is not picking them again,
                                          it's just a bonus you get to distribute to one you've picked already.
                                          So, if you choose not to pick a favored enemy at 5th level, you sill
                                          have only a max of +4 for your original pick at 1st level.

                                          The wording seems very clear to me...

                                          mh - ZansForCans
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                                        • Matt Haffner
                                          ... They are hard-coded in the feats_hidden2 file right now. This goes along with what I was saying above about separating these out into their own LST group
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Feb 2, 2004
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                                            On Feb 2, 2004, at 11:06 AM, Loyal wrote:

                                            > Since the RSRD specifies that the only enemies you can choose are
                                            > those listed on the table, what happens when a DM wants to customize
                                            > that list? Or when an accessory adds to that list?
                                            >
                                            > Is there an easy mechanism to modify the existing method of Favored

                                            They are hard-coded in the feats_hidden2 file right now. This goes
                                            along with what I was saying above about separating these out into
                                            their own LST group with a TYPE modifier. Then you have only one list,
                                            and in addition, it would be easy to add members to the list with
                                            editing in one place or by appending through new sources.

                                            mh - ZansForCans
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                                          • Jeremy Turnley
                                            ... not any ... say ... the ... again, ... already. ... sill ... Looking back at them I agree (and was just writing a post saying the same thing when yours
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Feb 2, 2004
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                                              --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Matt Haffner <haffner@a...> wrote:
                                              > On Feb 2, 2004, at 8:19 AM, Paul Grosse wrote:
                                              >
                                              > > I think you are missing a crucial wording here.
                                              >
                                              > may = 'is allowed to'. It also says that for the 1st level pick.
                                              > Finally, it says "...may select an *additional* favored enemy",
                                              not any
                                              > you have selected already.
                                              >
                                              > Even if you want to read it as 'can, if they want to', it does not
                                              say
                                              > that if you choose the same enemy you get an bonus +2 by picking
                                              the
                                              > same enemy as multiple favorites. Every favored enemy gets the +2
                                              > bonus. Then, it says you get a +2 in addition at each 5th level to
                                              > distribute among your favored enemies. This is not picking them
                                              again,
                                              > it's just a bonus you get to distribute to one you've picked
                                              already.
                                              > So, if you choose not to pick a favored enemy at 5th level, you
                                              sill
                                              > have only a max of +4 for your original pick at 1st level.
                                              >
                                              > The wording seems very clear to me...

                                              Looking back at them I agree (and was just writing a post saying the
                                              same thing when yours came in ;) You don't HAVE to take another
                                              race, but if you do, it has to be a different one from one you
                                              already have.

                                              -Illy
                                            • Loyal
                                              It seems very clear that is how it works. (Especially since that is what I read the first time, hehehe.) You may put the bonus gained at subsequent levels on
                                              Message 22 of 25 , Feb 2, 2004
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                                                It seems very clear that is how it works. (Especially since that is
                                                what I read the first time, hehehe.)

                                                You may put the bonus gained at subsequent levels on that initial
                                                choice, but you don't actually get to select that choice again. The
                                                wording does show that you could choose not to select another enemy,
                                                but that reckons back to the "dim bulb" statement from earlier posts.

                                                -Loyal


                                                --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Matt Haffner <haffner@a...> wrote:
                                                > On Feb 2, 2004, at 8:19 AM, Paul Grosse wrote:
                                                >
                                                > > I think you are missing a crucial wording here.
                                                >
                                                > may = 'is allowed to'. It also says that for the 1st level pick.
                                                > Finally, it says "...may select an *additional* favored enemy", not
                                                any
                                                > you have selected already.
                                                >
                                                > Even if you want to read it as 'can, if they want to', it does not
                                                say
                                                > that if you choose the same enemy you get an bonus +2 by picking
                                                the
                                                > same enemy as multiple favorites. Every favored enemy gets the +2
                                                > bonus. Then, it says you get a +2 in addition at each 5th level to
                                                > distribute among your favored enemies. This is not picking them
                                                again,
                                                > it's just a bonus you get to distribute to one you've picked
                                                already.
                                                > So, if you choose not to pick a favored enemy at 5th level, you
                                                sill
                                                > have only a max of +4 for your original pick at 1st level.
                                                >
                                                > The wording seems very clear to me...
                                                >
                                                > mh - ZansForCans
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                                                > Group Editing & Authoring Support
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                                              • Loyal
                                                Completely agree. Favored Enemy is working right now as is, but it s definitely not 100% and could be adjusted to work better for customization and growth.
                                                Message 23 of 25 , Feb 2, 2004
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                                                  Completely agree. Favored Enemy is "working" right now as is, but
                                                  it's definitely not 100% and could be adjusted to work better for
                                                  customization and growth.

                                                  I'll see what I can come up with when I have some free cycles...

                                                  --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Matt Haffner <haffner@a...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > They are hard-coded in the feats_hidden2 file right now. This goes
                                                  > along with what I was saying above about separating these out into
                                                  > their own LST group with a TYPE modifier. Then you have only one
                                                  list,
                                                  > and in addition, it would be easy to add members to the list with
                                                  > editing in one place or by appending through new sources.
                                                  >
                                                  > mh - ZansForCans
                                                • Stephen L Johnson
                                                  ... I agree with Hetter. I think you are reading too much into wording. To me the RSD passage says: if RangerLevel = 5 and a multiple of 5 then if ( Desired
                                                  Message 24 of 25 , Feb 2, 2004
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                                                    On Mon, 2004-02-02 at 11:11, Hetter wrote:
                                                    > Paul Grosse wrote:
                                                    > >At 5th level and every five levels thereafter (10th, 15th, and 20th
                                                    > >level), the ranger *may* select an additional favored enemy from
                                                    > those
                                                    > >given on the table. In addition, at each such interval, the bonus
                                                    > >against any one favored enemy (including the one just selected, if so
                                                    > >desired) increases by 2.
                                                    > ></snip of ClassesII.rtf>
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > One thing though, Paul.
                                                    > <snip of EpicClasses.rtf>
                                                    >
                                                    > *Favored Enemy (Ex):* The epic ranger gains one additional favored
                                                    > enemy, and his or her bonuses against one category of favored enemies
                                                    > goes up by +2, every five levels higher than 20th.
                                                    >
                                                    > </snip of EpicClasses.rtf>
                                                    > and
                                                    > <snip of EpicFeats.rtf>
                                                    >
                                                    > BANE OF ENEMIES [EPIC]
                                                    >
                                                    > *Prerequisites:* Survival 24 ranks, five or more favored enemies.
                                                    >
                                                    > </snip of EpicClasses.rtf>
                                                    >
                                                    > I think those two things from the Epic SRD makes it clear the ranger
                                                    > chooses a new favored enemy each time.

                                                    I agree with Hetter. I think you are reading too much into wording. To
                                                    me the RSD passage says:

                                                    if RangerLevel >= 5 and a multiple of 5 then
                                                    if ( Desired ) then
                                                    Choice Another Favored Enemy
                                                    else
                                                    NOP ; do nothing

                                                    --
                                                    Stephen L Johnson <sjohnson@...>

                                                    "Never tangle with a geek when source code is on the line." - Frank
                                                    Sorenson
                                                  • Matt Haffner
                                                    ... This was originally something I posted up in the favored enemy thread. I think I found this bug. The Bonus to xxx Favored Enemy feats in
                                                    Message 25 of 25 , Feb 5, 2004
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                                                      On Feb 2, 2004, at 12:40 AM, Matt Haffner wrote:

                                                      > All that being said, I think I hit a real bug when testing. I added 6
                                                      > ranger levels and got to select my 2 favored enemies and the 5th level
                                                      > bonus without trouble. Then I added 4 more levels. The favored enemy
                                                      > box came up OK, but the bonus box only listed the 2nd and 3rd favored
                                                      > enemies for selection. Can someone else confirm this (5.5.9). I'll put
                                                      > up the tracker for it.

                                                      This was originally something I posted up in the favored enemy thread.
                                                      I think I found this bug.

                                                      The "Bonus to xxx Favored Enemy" feats in rsrd_feats_hidden2 need
                                                      MULT:YES tags. Otherwise, you never can pick the same bonus more than
                                                      once.

                                                      Do they need STACK:YES as well? Or does the
                                                      TYPE=FavoredEnemyBonus.STACK take care of that completely?

                                                      DM #891515

                                                      I P9'ed it because it's potentially very limiting to Rangers. I hope
                                                      that wasn't too presumtuous!

                                                      mh - ZansForCans
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