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Re: [pcgen] Skills on output sheets

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  • Kurt Wimmer
    In case you didn t know, there is a(t least one) FREQ about this that you can now close... Unfortunatly SF is currently down so I cannot get you the number. I
    Message 1 of 23 , Dec 1, 2003
      In case you didn't know, there is a(t least one) FREQ about this that
      you can now close...

      Unfortunatly SF is currently down so I cannot get you the number. I was
      raised by me though (kwimmer).

      Kurt



      Ross M. Lodge wrote:

      > I've made changes to the code that should be in the next
      > autobuild that separate the skills displayed on the GUI from the
      > skills displayed on the output sheet. There's now an option under
      > preferences->output that controls skills displayed on the output
      > sheets (ranks only, untrained, or all). The combo box on the skills
      > tab should now only control the skills that are displayed in the gui.
      >
      > Ross
      >
      > *Yahoo! Groups Sponsor*
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      >
      >
      >
      > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
      > PCGen's alpha build: http://rpg.plambert.net/pcgen
      > PCGen's FAQ:
      > http://rpg.plambert.net/pcgen/current/_docs/
      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > pcgen-unsubscribe@egroups.com
      >
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      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Ross M. Lodge
      Freq #793600 has been closed. Don t know if there are any others. Ross ... From: Kurt Wimmer [mailto:kwimmer@rogers.com] Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 5:23
      Message 2 of 23 , Dec 1, 2003
        Freq #793600 has been closed. Don't know if there are any others.

        Ross

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Kurt Wimmer [mailto:kwimmer@...]
        Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 5:23 PM
        To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [pcgen] Skills on output sheets



        In case you didn't know, there is a(t least one) FREQ about this that
        you can now close...

        Unfortunatly SF is currently down so I cannot get you the number. I was
        raised by me though (kwimmer).

        Kurt



        Ross M. Lodge wrote:

        > I've made changes to the code that should be in the next
        > autobuild that separate the skills displayed on the GUI from the
        > skills displayed on the output sheet. There's now an option under
        > preferences->output that controls skills displayed on the output
        > sheets (ranks only, untrained, or all). The combo box on the skills
        > tab should now only control the skills that are displayed in the gui.
        >
        > Ross
        >
        > *Yahoo! Groups Sponsor*
        > ADVERTISEMENT
        >
        <http://rd.yahoo.com/SIG=12cvfnqc2/M=267637.4116732.5333197.1261774/D=egroup
        web/S=1705016061:HM/EXP=1070408854/A=1853619/R=0/*http://www.netflix.com/Def
        ault?mqso=60178356&partid=4116732>
        >
        >
        >
        > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
        > PCGen's alpha build: http://rpg.plambert.net/pcgen
        > PCGen's FAQ:
        > http://rpg.plambert.net/pcgen/current/_docs/
        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > pcgen-unsubscribe@egroups.com
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
        > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



        PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
        PCGen's alpha build: http://rpg.plambert.net/pcgen
        PCGen's FAQ:
        http://rpg.plambert.net/pcgen/current/_docs/
        To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        pcgen-unsubscribe@egroups.com

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      • Ross M. Lodge
        On a clean install it should default to Untrained (I just tested this with the current autobuild). If you install over a previous setup, so a pcgen.ini
        Message 3 of 23 , Dec 1, 2003
          On a clean install it should default to "Untrained" (I just tested this
          with the current autobuild). If you install over a previous setup, so a
          pcgen.ini file already exists, it should default to whatever the skills tab
          combo box was last set to.

          Ross

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Sigurdur H. Olafsson [mailto:here@...]
          Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 4:14 PM
          To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [pcgen] Re: Skills on output sheets


          OK, but please tell me you made it default to untrained?

          pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Ross M. Lodge" <ross.lodge@e...> wrote:
          > I've made changes to the code that should be in the next
          autobuild that separate the skills displayed on the GUI from the
          skills displayed on the output sheet. There's now an option under
          preferences->output that controls skills displayed on the output
          sheets (ranks only, untrained, or all). The combo box on the skills
          tab should now only control the skills that are displayed in the gui.
          >
          > Ross



          PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
          PCGen's alpha build: http://rpg.plambert.net/pcgen
          PCGen's FAQ:
          http://rpg.plambert.net/pcgen/current/_docs/
          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          pcgen-unsubscribe@egroups.com

          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        • David Green
          ... autobuild that separate the skills displayed on the GUI from the skills displayed on the output sheet. There s now an option under preferences- output
          Message 4 of 23 , Dec 2, 2003
            --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Ross M. Lodge" <ross.lodge@e...> wrote:
            > I've made changes to the code that should be in the next
            autobuild that separate the skills displayed on the GUI from the
            skills displayed on the output sheet. There's now an option under
            preferences->output that controls skills displayed on the output
            sheets (ranks only, untrained, or all). The combo box on the skills
            tab should now only control the skills that are displayed in the gui.
            >
            > Ross

            Will you still have the ability to 'Hide' selected skills, ie all the
            performs. It would be good if a skill that is hidden on the GUI
            doesn't get output to the sheet regardless of the output setting.

            David
          • Ross M. Lodge
            ... AFAIK, there s currently no way to apply the filters from the GUI skills screen to the OS s. You could request a FREQ for it . . . Ross
            Message 5 of 23 , Dec 2, 2003
              > Will you still have the ability to 'Hide' selected skills, ie all the
              > performs. It would be good if a skill that is hidden on the GUI
              > doesn't get output to the sheet regardless of the output setting.
              >
              > David

              AFAIK, there's currently no way to apply the filters from the GUI skills screen to the OS's. You could request a FREQ for it . . .

              Ross
            • David Green
              ... GUI skills screen to the OS s. You could request a FREQ for it . . . ... At the moment I use 5.4.0 with CMP datasets. I have my Skills Tab set to show
              Message 6 of 23 , Dec 2, 2003
                --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Ross M. Lodge" <ross.lodge@e...> wrote:
                > > Will you still have the ability to 'Hide' selected skills, i.e.
                > > performs. It would be good if a skill that is hidden on the GUI
                > > doesn't get output to the sheet regardless of the output setting.
                > >
                > > David
                >
                > AFAIK, there's currently no way to apply the filters from the
                GUI skills screen to the OS's. You could request a FREQ for it . . .
                >
                > Ross

                At the moment I use 5.4.0 with CMP datasets. I have my Skills Tab
                set to show Untrained with all the subsets of Perform and Ride
                Hidden, When I output to PDF they remain 'Hidden'. I guess I was
                just asking wether this new feature would 'break' this functionality.

                Cheers
                David
              • Ross
                ... functionality. Shouldn t. Let me know if it does. Ross
                Message 7 of 23 , Dec 2, 2003
                  > At the moment I use 5.4.0 with CMP datasets. I have my Skills Tab
                  > set to show Untrained with all the subsets of Perform and Ride
                  > Hidden, When I output to PDF they remain 'Hidden'. I guess I was
                  > just asking wether this new feature would 'break' this
                  functionality.

                  Shouldn't. Let me know if it does.

                  Ross
                • Sigurdur H. Olafsson
                  Now for some bizarre reason (not saying it´s your doing) skills do not get output to the OS in alphabetical order, but in the order according to the Order tag
                  Message 8 of 23 , Dec 4, 2003
                    Now for some bizarre reason (not saying it´s your doing) skills do
                    not get output to the OS in alphabetical order, but in the order
                    according to the Order tag on the PCGen skills tab.
                    Someone has abviously fixed an issue that had irritaded me for a long
                    time, but seemingly did not go all the way.

                    Previously skills were sorted in PCGen by the Order tag, and no way I
                    could find to sort them alphabetically (I don´t know what the "Auto-
                    sort Output" tickbox is supposed to do?)

                    Now as described before, the order is finally alphabetical in the
                    Skills tab, but the order they are displayed gets scrambled on the OS
                    (but in an orderly fashion, according to the order tag :)

                    --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Ross M. Lodge" <ross.lodge@e...> wrote:
                    > On a clean install it should default to "Untrained" (I just
                    tested this
                    > with the current autobuild). If you install over a previous setup,
                    so a
                    > pcgen.ini file already exists, it should default to whatever the
                    skills tab
                    > combo box was last set to.
                    >
                    > Ross
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: Sigurdur H. Olafsson [mailto:here@h...]
                    > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 4:14 PM
                    > To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: [pcgen] Re: Skills on output sheets
                    >
                    >
                    > OK, but please tell me you made it default to untrained?
                    >
                    > pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Ross M. Lodge" <ross.lodge@e...> wrote:
                    > > I've made changes to the code that should be in the next
                    > autobuild that separate the skills displayed on the GUI from the
                    > skills displayed on the output sheet. There's now an option under
                    > preferences->output that controls skills displayed on the output
                    > sheets (ranks only, untrained, or all). The combo box on the skills
                    > tab should now only control the skills that are displayed in the
                    gui.
                    > >
                    > > Ross
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                    > PCGen's alpha build: http://rpg.plambert.net/pcgen
                    > PCGen's FAQ:
                    > http://rpg.plambert.net/pcgen/current/_docs/
                    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > pcgen-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  • Ross M. Lodge
                    ... This does definitely seem to be a side-effect of the changes I made. The TM s probably need to enter it as a new bug. Ross
                    Message 9 of 23 , Dec 4, 2003
                      Quoting "Sigurdur H. Olafsson" <here@...>:
                      > Now for some bizarre reason (not saying it´s your doing) skills do
                      > not get output to the OS in alphabetical order, but in the order
                      > according to the Order tag on the PCGen skills tab.
                      > Someone has abviously fixed an issue that had irritaded me for a long
                      > time, but seemingly did not go all the way.
                      >
                      > Previously skills were sorted in PCGen by the Order tag, and no way I
                      > could find to sort them alphabetically (I don´t know what the "Auto-
                      > sort Output" tickbox is supposed to do?)
                      >
                      > Now as described before, the order is finally alphabetical in the
                      > Skills tab, but the order they are displayed gets scrambled on the OS
                      > (but in an orderly fashion, according to the order tag :)

                      This does definitely seem to be a side-effect of the changes I made. The TM's probably need to enter it as a new bug.

                      Ross
                    • Sigurdur H. Olafsson
                      Shouldn´t this then be two bugs? 1. Order of Skills not alphabetical on OS (Or something in that direction) What is the actual underlying problem? That the
                      Message 10 of 23 , Dec 4, 2003
                        Shouldn´t this then be two bugs?

                        1. Order of Skills not alphabetical on OS (Or something in that
                        direction)
                        What is the actual underlying problem? That the "Order" field does
                        not revert default to alphabetical sequence?

                        and

                        2. Auto-sort Output tickbox on skills tab doesn´t do anything

                        --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Ross M. Lodge" <ross.lodge@e...> wrote:
                        > This does definitely seem to be a side-effect of the changes I
                        > made. The TM's probably need to enter it as a new bug.
                        >
                        > Ross
                      • Ross M. Lodge
                        ... I don t know what the auto-sort checkbox is supposed to do. :-) It s probably better as one tracker entry because the problems might be (are?) tied
                        Message 11 of 23 , Dec 4, 2003
                          Quoting "Sigurdur H. Olafsson" <here@...>:

                          > Shouldn´t this then be two bugs?
                          >
                          > 1. Order of Skills not alphabetical on OS (Or something in that
                          > direction)
                          > What is the actual underlying problem? That the "Order" field does
                          > not revert default to alphabetical sequence?
                          >
                          > and
                          >
                          > 2. Auto-sort Output tickbox on skills tab doesn´t do anything
                          >

                          I don't know what the auto-sort checkbox is supposed to do. :-)
                          It's probably better as one tracker entry because the problems might be (are?) tied together.

                          Ross
                        • Sigurdur H. Olafsson
                          I don´t recall the tickbox ever doing anything... :) ... does ... ) ... might be (are?) tied together.
                          Message 12 of 23 , Dec 4, 2003
                            I don´t recall the tickbox ever doing anything... :)

                            --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Ross M. Lodge" <ross.lodge@e...> wrote:
                            > Quoting "Sigurdur H. Olafsson" <here@h...>:
                            >
                            > > Shouldn´t this then be two bugs?
                            > >
                            > > 1. Order of Skills not alphabetical on OS (Or something in that
                            > > direction)
                            > > What is the actual underlying problem? That the "Order" field
                            does
                            > > not revert default to alphabetical sequence?
                            > >
                            > > and
                            > >
                            > > 2. Auto-sort Output tickbox on skills tab doesn´t do anything
                            > >
                            >
                            > I don't know what the auto-sort checkbox is supposed to do. :-
                            )
                            > It's probably better as one tracker entry because the problems
                            might be (are?) tied together.
                            >
                            > Ross
                          • James Dempsey
                            Hi, Sigurdur, try this out. Click in your selected skills tab, right click and select Output Order By Name (Ascending) . That should give you what you want.
                            Message 13 of 23 , Dec 4, 2003
                              Hi,

                              Sigurdur, try this out. Click in your selected skills tab, right click and
                              select "Output Order > By Name (Ascending)". That should give you what you
                              want. The auto-sort output option is intended to keep the output it in alpha
                              order anyway, but perhaps it needs to be examined to make sure it works.
                              Uncheck it if you don't want the skills *output order* resorted each time a
                              skill is added.

                              Please, the order column is *intended* to control the order in which skills
                              are output. Not everyone wants them in alpha order - I tend to use the
                              trained then untrained option, others may have different ones. If it is
                              controlling the output order then it is the intended behaviour and should
                              not be changed. If it isn't working properly in some way, get a bug raised,
                              assign it to me and I will sort it out.

                              Cheers,
                              -------------------------------------------
                              James Dempsey
                              JDempsey@...
                              PCGEN Code Monkey

                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: "Ross M. Lodge" <ross.lodge@...>
                              To: <pcgen@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 4:12 AM
                              Subject: Re: [pcgen] [Bug] Re: Skills on output sheets


                              > Quoting "Sigurdur H. Olafsson" <here@...>:
                              >
                              > > Shouldn´t this then be two bugs?
                              > >
                              > > 1. Order of Skills not alphabetical on OS (Or something in that
                              > > direction)
                              > > What is the actual underlying problem? That the "Order" field does
                              > > not revert default to alphabetical sequence?
                              > >
                              > > and
                              > >
                              > > 2. Auto-sort Output tickbox on skills tab doesn´t do anything
                              > >
                              >
                              > I don't know what the auto-sort checkbox is supposed to do. :-)
                              > It's probably better as one tracker entry because the problems might
                              be (are?) tied together.
                              >
                              > Ross
                            • Ross M. Lodge
                              ... When I looked at it this morning, the problem appeared to be that the skills list on the output is now different than the skills list on the screen --
                              Message 14 of 23 , Dec 4, 2003
                                > Hi,
                                >
                                > Sigurdur, try this out. Click in your selected skills tab, right click and
                                > select "Output Order > By Name (Ascending)". That should give you what you
                                > want. The auto-sort output option is intended to keep the output it in alpha
                                > order anyway, but perhaps it needs to be examined to make sure it works.
                                > Uncheck it if you don't want the skills *output order* resorted each time a
                                > skill is added.
                                >
                                > Please, the order column is *intended* to control the order in which skills
                                > are output. Not everyone wants them in alpha order - I tend to use the
                                > trained then untrained option, others may have different ones. If it is
                                > controlling the output order then it is the intended behaviour and should
                                > not be changed. If it isn't working properly in some way, get a bug raised,
                                > assign it to me and I will sort it out.

                                When I looked at it this morning, the problem appeared to be that the skills list on the output is now different than the skills list on the screen -- skills with an output order assigned on the screen were sorted first, according to their output order; then all others were sorted alphabetically on the output. This only happens if your screen display setting (say, None) is different from the setting on the output options (say, Untrained) -- in this case, the skills you had ranks in would display first, and the skills you didn't would come next.

                                Ross
                              • Jayme Cox
                                [TM] This is not a bug as far as I can tell. Everything works as designed in 5.5.2 ... Solution: If the skills are not in the order you desire, right click on
                                Message 15 of 23 , Dec 4, 2003
                                  [TM] This is not a bug as far as I can tell. Everything works as designed in
                                  5.5.2

                                  > > 1. Order of Skills not alphabetical on OS (Or something in that
                                  > > direction)

                                  Solution: If the skills are not in the order you desire, right click on one of
                                  them and select Output Order->name (ascending)

                                  > > 2. Auto-sort Output tickbox on skills tab doesn´t do anything

                                  The Auto-sort checkbox makes sure that any _NEW_ skill added to the list is put
                                  into the proper place, alphabetically.
                                • Sigurdur H. Olafsson
                                  ... Wow.. thanks this worked, but being the nitpicking ba*tard I am, this is NOT very intuative. (I have played with the Display by and Auto- sort output
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Dec 4, 2003
                                    --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "James Dempsey" <jdempsey@a...> wrote:
                                    > Sigurdur, try this out. Click in your selected skills tab, right
                                    > click and select "Output Order > By Name (Ascending)". That should
                                    > give you what you want.

                                    Wow.. thanks this worked, but being the nitpicking ba*tard I am, this
                                    is NOT very intuative. (I have played with the "Display by" and "Auto-
                                    sort output" buttons to no end in prevoius versions to try to get
                                    this functionality, obviously to no avail :O)

                                    (I shudder when I think about how many times I rearranged the order
                                    by hand, OTOH this in my book goes to #1 toppling the old picture
                                    chooser in PCGen GUI user hostility ;)

                                    How about when I load this character to a new version of PCGen
                                    (options.ini deleted and all), I presume I will have to do this again?

                                    > Please, the order column is *intended* to control the order in
                                    > which skills are output. Not everyone wants them in alpha order - I
                                    > tend to use the trained then untrained option, others may have
                                    > different ones. If it is controlling the output order then it is
                                    > the intended behaviour and should not be changed. If it isn't
                                    > working properly in some way, get a bug raised, assign it to me and
                                    > I will sort it out.

                                    I hear ya... how about defaulting to alphabetical.. or maybe people
                                    don´t care?

                                    Could "Output Order" be made a dropdown menu like "Display By"?
                                  • Sigurdur H. Olafsson
                                    ... But Ross is right that currently there is not sync between PCGen and the OS. PCGEN defaults to alphabetical display and trained/untrained order. IMHO all
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Dec 4, 2003
                                      --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Jayme Cox" <jayme@r...> wrote:
                                      > [TM] This is not a bug as far as I can tell. Everything works as
                                      > designed in 5.5.2

                                      But Ross is right that currently there is not sync between PCGen and
                                      the OS. PCGEN defaults to alphabetical display and trained/untrained
                                      order.

                                      IMHO all should default to the same ordering scheme.

                                      >
                                      > > > 1. Order of Skills not alphabetical on OS (Or something in that
                                      > > > direction)
                                      >
                                      > Solution: If the skills are not in the order you desire, right
                                      click on one of
                                      > them and select Output Order->name (ascending)
                                      >
                                      > > > 2. Auto-sort Output tickbox on skills tab doesn´t do anything
                                      >
                                      > The Auto-sort checkbox makes sure that any _NEW_ skill added to the
                                      list is put
                                      > into the proper place, alphabetically.

                                      That´s clever :)
                                    • Jayme Cox
                                      ... Expected behavior. Output order is what both the OS and GUI are supposed to use to order the display of the skills. If a Skill does not have a order #,
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Dec 4, 2003
                                        >
                                        > When I looked at it this morning, the problem appeared
                                        > to be that the skills list on the output is now different
                                        > than the skills list on the screen -- skills with an output
                                        > order assigned on the screen were sorted first, according to
                                        > their output order; then all others were sorted
                                        > alphabetically on the output. This only happens if your
                                        > screen display setting (say, None) is different from the
                                        > setting on the output options (say, Untrained) -- in this
                                        > case, the skills you had ranks in would display first, and
                                        > the skills you didn't would come next.

                                        Expected behavior. Output order is what both the OS and GUI are supposed to use
                                        to order the display of the skills. If a Skill does not have a order #, then it
                                        comes after all the ones that do. Default order is Alphabetical, so any skills
                                        not in the GUI would fall into that category.

                                        There needs to be a FREQ opened for:

                                        Change Skills 'Auto-Sort output' checkbox to a drop-down that contains the
                                        following:

                                        By name (ascending)
                                        By name (descending)
                                        By trained, then untrained
                                        By untrained, then trained

                                        This setting should then be used for both the GUI and OS export order of skills

                                        Thanks!
                                      • Eric Beaudoin
                                        ... Well we need a way to user sort the skills so they should not revert to alpha order unless the checkbox is selected. ... 3. If you hide some skills, they
                                        Message 19 of 23 , Dec 5, 2003
                                          At 11:52 2003.12.04, Sigurdur H. Olafsson wrote:
                                          >Shouldn´t this then be two bugs?
                                          >
                                          >1. Order of Skills not alphabetical on OS (Or something in that
                                          >direction)
                                          >What is the actual underlying problem? That the "Order" field does
                                          >not revert default to alphabetical sequence?

                                          Well we need a way to "user sort" the skills so they should not revert to alpha order unless the checkbox is selected.

                                          >and
                                          >
                                          >2. Auto-sort Output tickbox on skills tab doesn´t do anything


                                          3. If you hide some skills, they still are count against the total and the CSHEET display empty lines.


                                          -----------------------------------------------------------
                                          Éric "Space Monkey" Beaudoin (hiding in the trench)
                                          >> In space, no one can hear you sleep.
                                          >> Camels to can climb trees (and sometime eat them).
                                          <mailto:beaudoer@...>
                                        • Ross M. Lodge
                                          The problem I saw was that, now that the not all skills on the output sheet needed to be displayed in the GUI (I.e., you could choose None in the gui and
                                          Message 20 of 23 , Dec 6, 2003
                                            The problem I saw was that, now that the not all skills on the output sheet
                                            needed to be displayed in the GUI (I.e., you could choose None in the gui
                                            and Untrained for the output sheets), the sort order was not what was
                                            expected on the output sheets (the ranked skills came first, even though you
                                            had chosen alphabetical in the GUI).

                                            Ross

                                            -----Original Message-----
                                            From: Eric Beaudoin [mailto:beaudoer@...]
                                            Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 8:21 PM
                                            To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                                            Subject: Re: [pcgen] [Bug] Re: Skills on output sheets


                                            At 11:52 2003.12.04, Sigurdur H. Olafsson wrote:
                                            >Shouldn´t this then be two bugs?
                                            >
                                            >1. Order of Skills not alphabetical on OS (Or something in that
                                            >direction)
                                            >What is the actual underlying problem? That the "Order" field does
                                            >not revert default to alphabetical sequence?

                                            Well we need a way to "user sort" the skills so they should not revert to
                                            alpha order unless the checkbox is selected.

                                            >and
                                            >
                                            >2. Auto-sort Output tickbox on skills tab doesn´t do anything


                                            3. If you hide some skills, they still are count against the total and the
                                            CSHEET display empty lines.


                                            -----------------------------------------------------------
                                            Éric "Space Monkey" Beaudoin (hiding in the trench)
                                            >> In space, no one can hear you sleep.
                                            >> Camels to can climb trees (and sometime eat them).
                                            <mailto:beaudoer@...>




                                            PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                                            PCGen's alpha build: http://rpg.plambert.net/pcgen
                                            PCGen's FAQ:
                                            http://rpg.plambert.net/pcgen/current/_docs/
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