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Re: [pcgen] Re: Rokugan??

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  • Mark Perneta
    ... The main OA book is (will be?) a CMP set, and unless WotC has a major change in legal policy that s where it s going to stay. There is, IIRC, work being
    Message 1 of 11 , Nov 30, 2003
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      At 04:43 PM 11/30/2003 +0000, chris wrote:
      >THe main OA book was in PCGen, I am hopeing some day it and the other
      >OA books can be in PCGen...

      The main OA book is (will be?) a CMP set, and unless WotC has a
      major change in legal policy that's where it's going to stay. There is,
      IIRC, work being done on the AEG (Rokugan) releases. The issue is that
      while the Rokugan books can be released as PCGen, they won't work unless
      you buy the OA set.

      Mark.

      --
      The twentieth century was one in which limits on state power were
      removed in order to let the intellectuals run with the ball, and they
      screwed everything up and turned the century into an abattoir...
      We Americans are the only ones who didn't get creamed at some point
      during all of this. We are free and prosperous because we have
      inherited political and value systems fabricated by a particular set
      of eighteenth-century intellectuals who happened to get it right. But
      we have lost touch with those intellectuals.
      - Neal Stephenson
    • Mark Perneta
      ... I believe that there has been. Searching the group archive for Rokugan will show the entire thread, but try these:
      Message 2 of 11 , Nov 30, 2003
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        At 04:26 PM 11/30/2003 -0500, Eric Beaudoin wrote:
        >PCGEN only distribute OGL stuff. OA files are distributed by CMP. I don't
        >know if anyway ever approach the publisher of the Rokogan products about these.

        I believe that there has been. Searching the group archive for
        Rokugan will show the entire thread, but try these:
        <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen/message/68242>
        <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen/message/68249>

        Rokugan is pretty aggressively OGL - AEG's Declaration of OGC
        explicitly states that all mechanical elements are OGC, and that PI names
        can be used in other OGL products when referring to mechanics.
        The problem is that it all rests on OA, which is decidedly NOT
        OGC. If you release sets for Rokugan, they have to refer back to the OA
        set, which will, for legal reasons, be sold by CMP. The last time this was
        discussed, there was some hesitance on releasing "free" material that
        wasn't useful without the PURCHASE of another set.

        Mark.

        --
        The twentieth century was one in which limits on state power were
        removed in order to let the intellectuals run with the ball, and they
        screwed everything up and turned the century into an abattoir...
        We Americans are the only ones who didn't get creamed at some point
        during all of this. We are free and prosperous because we have
        inherited political and value systems fabricated by a particular set
        of eighteenth-century intellectuals who happened to get it right. But
        we have lost touch with those intellectuals.
        - Neal Stephenson
      • Rob Hines Jr.
        My understanding of the Rokugan was, that AEG had given permission, but that the Rokugan files rely on OA which is closed content being distributed by CMP. I
        Message 3 of 11 , Nov 30, 2003
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          My understanding of the Rokugan was, that AEG had given permission, but
          that the Rokugan files rely on OA which is closed content being
          distributed by CMP.

          I thought there's been discussion about CMP possibly offering Rokugan
          files as free expansions to OA, but haven't heard anything since then.

          Rob

          EB>At 11:43 2003.11.30, chris wrote:
          EB>>THe main OA book was in PCGen, I am hopeing some day it and the other
          EB>>OA books can be in PCGen...
          EB>>
          EB>>--- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "mat cauthon" <sith_polynikes@y...>
          EB>>wrote:
          EB>>> I had some of the CCG until my ex thrwe them all away....Then on a
          EB>>> mission to buy some new material to replace my old....Now lying in
          EB>>a
          EB>>> landfill material.
          EB>>>
          EB>>> I ran across Rokugan for RPG......I live in a small town in
          EB>>Illinois
          EB>>> so I don't have a large outlet to material. But I was wondering if
          EB>>> any of the PCGen modes have it??
          EB>
          EB>PCGEN only distribute OGL stuff. OA files are distributed by CMP. I don't know if anyway ever approach the publisher of the Rokogan products about these.
          EB>
          EB>
          EB>-----------------------------------------------------------
          EB>√Čric "Space Monkey" Beaudoin (hiding in the trench)
          EB>>> In space, no one can hear you sleep.
          EB>>> Camels to can climb trees (and sometime eat them).
          EB><mailto:beaudoer@...>
          EB>
          EB>
          EB>
          EB>
          EB>PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
          EB>PCGen's alpha build: http://rpg.plambert.net/pcgen
          EB>PCGen's FAQ:
          EB>http://rpg.plambert.net/pcgen/current/_docs/
          EB>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          EB>pcgen-unsubscribe@egroups.com
          EB>
          EB>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          EB>
          EB>

          --
          Rob

          ----
          Rob Hines Jr.
          Systems Administrator

          -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
          GCS/IT d--(+) s+:++ a? C++++ UL/S/H++++ P+ L+++ E---- W+++ N+(++) o
          K+(++) w--- O- M--@ V(--) PS+(++) PE(+) Y(++) PGP-@ t+ 5++ X+(-)@
          R(+) tv(++) b+(++) DI++ D--- G(+) e+ h- r-- y**(++)
          -----END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
          (http://www.geekcode.com)
        • Brass Tilde
          ... I m not sure exactly why this hesitance is present. After all, the OGC content of the Rokugan book is free*, and *it* depends on the PURCHASE of another
          Message 4 of 11 , Nov 30, 2003
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            > The problem is that it all rests on OA, which is decidedly
            > NOT OGC. If you release sets for Rokugan, they have to refer
            > back to the OA set, which will, for legal reasons, be sold by
            > CMP. The last time this was discussed, there was some
            > hesitance on releasing "free" material that wasn't useful
            > without the PURCHASE of another set.

            I'm not sure exactly why this hesitance is present. After all, the OGC
            content of the Rokugan book is free*, and *it* depends on the PURCHASE of
            another book, does it not? The Rokugan book likely has some statement like
            "Requires the use of the PHB, DMG and OA books". Similarly, the free
            Rokugan data set would need a statement that spelled out its requirement for
            the OA data set.

            I'm afraid that I don't see why the fact that the material upon which the
            Rokugan material is based can't be released for free would in any way
            inhibit releasing that material that *can* be distributed for free. Unless
            it's technically impossible to code up the Rokugan files *without* including
            OA PI in them (though I suspect references alone could fall under fair use
            guidelines), I don't see the two being connected at all. Other than having
            to wait for the pay ones to be completed before completing the free one, but
            that's a technical problem.

            *I'm aware that the Rokugan book itself would not be free. However, the OGC
            material *in* that book could be distributed for free.
          • Mark Perneta
            ... Understand that I m with you on this one. I really want to see these data sets, and have no problem buying the OA set from CMP to make them work.
            Message 5 of 11 , Nov 30, 2003
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              At 08:41 PM 11/30/2003 -0500, Brass Tilde wrote:
              >I'm not sure exactly why this hesitance is present.

              Understand that I'm with you on this one. I really want to see
              these data sets, and have no problem buying the OA set from CMP to make
              them work. However, from looking at the messages I linked to previously,
              the hesitance is definitely there. Dunno.

              Mark.

              --
              The twentieth century was one in which limits on state power were
              removed in order to let the intellectuals run with the ball, and they
              screwed everything up and turned the century into an abattoir...
              We Americans are the only ones who didn't get creamed at some point
              during all of this. We are free and prosperous because we have
              inherited political and value systems fabricated by a particular set
              of eighteenth-century intellectuals who happened to get it right. But
              we have lost touch with those intellectuals.
              - Neal Stephenson
            • Mynex WOW
              Well, I can only speak on CMP s behalf for the hesitancy [CMP Hat on]... We re hesitant simply from the last blowup to do anything that would make people
              Message 6 of 11 , Nov 30, 2003
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                Well, I can only speak on CMP's behalf for the hesitancy [CMP Hat on]...

                We're hesitant simply from the last blowup to do anything that would make
                people complain we're shafting PCGen. *shrug* Never mind the fact it's
                making the communities life easier and we're giving back by working closely
                with the data monkeys that make the L5R sets.

                We're not opposed, we just want someone coming back and sniping at us
                anymore over anything. Too many times already it's happened and for a lot
                of things not even related to us.

                W. Robert Reed III
                Mynex
                - #1 Evil Monkey
                - Code Monkey Publishing Co-Founder
                - El Mono Calvo Malvado


                -----Original Message-----
                From: Mark Perneta [mailto:turing2@...]
                Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2003 9:00 PM
                To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: RE: [pcgen] Re: Rokugan??

                At 08:41 PM 11/30/2003 -0500, Brass Tilde wrote:
                >I'm not sure exactly why this hesitance is present.

                Understand that I'm with you on this one. I really want to see
                these data sets, and have no problem buying the OA set from CMP to make
                them work. However, from looking at the messages I linked to previously,
                the hesitance is definitely there. Dunno.

                Mark.
              • Brass Tilde
                ... CMP, at this point, is the only entity that has WotC s approval to produce OA files, correct? Rokugan files can t be done until the OA files are done,
                Message 7 of 11 , Nov 30, 2003
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                  > We're not opposed, we just want someone coming back and sniping at us
                  > anymore over anything. Too many times already it's happened and for
                  > a lot of things not even related to us.

                  CMP, at this point, is the only entity that has WotC's approval to produce
                  OA files, correct?

                  Rokugan files can't be done until the OA files are done, correct?

                  CMP likely would *not* do the Rokugan files, as they are "free" ones,
                  correct?

                  Seems pretty simple to me. CMP does what it does, and the PCGen List
                  Monkeys do what they do.

                  Mind you, I understand the reluctance to open oneself up to criticism,
                  especially that which is undeserved, but it would appear that the
                  alternative is to do nothing. Which is even worse, IMNECTHO.

                  Are the OA files even started yet?
                • Mynex WOW
                  OA files are nearing completion... some issues (all code related of course *sigh*) for proper support of them, so we re having to come up with workarounds. And
                  Message 8 of 11 , Nov 30, 2003
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                    OA files are nearing completion... some issues (all code related of course
                    *sigh*) for proper support of them, so we're having to come up with
                    workarounds.

                    And no, at this point, CMP has no plans to produce L5R data sets. Since
                    there wouldn't be any conflict of interest, we're more than happy to work
                    with any PCGen volunteer data monkeys to create L5R data sets.

                    W. Robert Reed III
                    Mynex
                    - #1 Evil Monkey
                    - Code Monkey Publishing Co-Founder
                    - El Mono Calvo Malvado


                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Brass Tilde [mailto:brasstilde@...]
                    Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2003 9:18 PM
                    To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: RE: [pcgen] Re: Rokugan??

                    > We're not opposed, we just want someone coming back and sniping at us
                    > anymore over anything. Too many times already it's happened and for
                    > a lot of things not even related to us.

                    CMP, at this point, is the only entity that has WotC's approval to produce
                    OA files, correct?

                    Rokugan files can't be done until the OA files are done, correct?

                    CMP likely would *not* do the Rokugan files, as they are "free" ones,
                    correct?

                    Seems pretty simple to me. CMP does what it does, and the PCGen List
                    Monkeys do what they do.

                    Mind you, I understand the reluctance to open oneself up to criticism,
                    especially that which is undeserved, but it would appear that the
                    alternative is to do nothing. Which is even worse, IMNECTHO.

                    Are the OA files even started yet?
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