Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

RE: [pcgen] Thoughts about OGL material (was: Arcana Unearthed)

Expand Messages
  • Mynex WOW
    Well, it _could_ but the Rokugan lines all refer to IP material. *ponder* We could do like we need to with Spycraft... The files could be made and we could put
    Message 1 of 20 , Oct 24, 2003
      Well, it _could_ but the Rokugan lines all refer to IP material.

      *ponder*

      We could do like we need to with Spycraft... The files could be made and we
      could put them in our freebies section for download on the CMP boards...
      That should cover any issues over IP and license stuff...

      Let me double check that one just to make sure, but I think that would cover
      all the IP/License issues and still make sure the files were free...

      We'd probably have to do some tweaking of any Rokugan files to make sure
      they worked cleanly with the OA set, but we can work that bit out once we
      find out if this way is clear.

      *sigh* Licensing is a right royal pain. :(

      W. Robert Reed III
      Mynex
      - #1 Evil Monkey
      - Code Monkey Publishing Co-Founder
      - El Mono Calvo Malvado


      -----Original Message-----
      From: JP [mailto:lstmonkey@...]
      Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 12:43 PM
      To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [pcgen] Thoughts about OGL material (was: Arcana Unearthed)

      on 10/24/03 11:35 AM, Keith Davies at keith.davies@... wrote:

      > On Fri, Oct 24, 2003 at 12:27:39PM -0400, Mark Perneta wrote:
      >>
      >> On the subject of OGL material, my real query is about
      >> Rokugan. It appears to need some kind of agreement, even though their
      >> OGL statement says that it is their explicit intent to make as much of
      >> it open as possible. They even have a limited license to allow others
      >> to use their PI names when referring to mechanical aspects in print.
      >> However, there doesn't seem to be a project underway to get any of
      >> those books into PCGen - odd given the apparently large and
      >> semi-fanatical following that Rokugan has.
      >
      > It sits on top of Oriental Adventures, which isn't OGL. Without the
      > rules from OA, it's *really* hard to implement Rokugan, so a project
      > hasn't started (so far as I know) to get Rokugan implemented.

      I was asked about this earlier today, actually.

      Couldn't this overlay on top of the Oriental Adventures from CMP?

      Can that be done without causing licensing problems?

      --
      Jeff Pawlowski
      LST Baboon
      "Are you lookin' at my bum?"
    • Steven Gilroy
      You go boy! ... -- Steven Gilroy PCGen OS Lemur In a world without fences, who needs GATES?
      Message 2 of 20 , Oct 24, 2003
        You go boy!

        Mynex WOW wrote:

        >Well, it _could_ but the Rokugan lines all refer to IP material.
        >
        >*ponder*
        >
        >We could do like we need to with Spycraft... The files could be made and we
        >could put them in our freebies section for download on the CMP boards...
        >That should cover any issues over IP and license stuff...
        >
        >Let me double check that one just to make sure, but I think that would cover
        >all the IP/License issues and still make sure the files were free...
        >
        >We'd probably have to do some tweaking of any Rokugan files to make sure
        >they worked cleanly with the OA set, but we can work that bit out once we
        >find out if this way is clear.
        >
        >*sigh* Licensing is a right royal pain. :(
        >
        >W. Robert Reed III
        >Mynex
        >- #1 Evil Monkey
        >- Code Monkey Publishing Co-Founder
        >- El Mono Calvo Malvado
        >
        >
        >-----Original Message-----
        >From: JP [mailto:lstmonkey@...]
        >Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 12:43 PM
        >To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
        >Subject: Re: [pcgen] Thoughts about OGL material (was: Arcana Unearthed)
        >
        >on 10/24/03 11:35 AM, Keith Davies at keith.davies@... wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        >>On Fri, Oct 24, 2003 at 12:27:39PM -0400, Mark Perneta wrote:
        >>
        >>
        >>> On the subject of OGL material, my real query is about
        >>>Rokugan. It appears to need some kind of agreement, even though their
        >>>OGL statement says that it is their explicit intent to make as much of
        >>>it open as possible. They even have a limited license to allow others
        >>>to use their PI names when referring to mechanical aspects in print.
        >>>However, there doesn't seem to be a project underway to get any of
        >>>those books into PCGen - odd given the apparently large and
        >>>semi-fanatical following that Rokugan has.
        >>>
        >>>
        >>It sits on top of Oriental Adventures, which isn't OGL. Without the
        >>rules from OA, it's *really* hard to implement Rokugan, so a project
        >>hasn't started (so far as I know) to get Rokugan implemented.
        >>
        >>
        >
        >I was asked about this earlier today, actually.
        >
        >Couldn't this overlay on top of the Oriental Adventures from CMP?
        >
        >Can that be done without causing licensing problems?
        >
        >
        >

        --

        Steven Gilroy
        PCGen OS Lemur
        "In a world without fences, who needs GATES?"
      • Ross
        ... My understanding of the AU licensing is that much of the product is OGL *except* all original or capitalized names of races, classes, abilities, feats,
        Message 3 of 20 , Oct 24, 2003
          > It just goes for AU as far as I've seen. Everything else that he's
          > done is welcome in PCGen. May just have to do with how this is pretty
          > much a whole manual, or has too much PI, or something. *shrug*

          My understanding of the AU licensing is that much of the product is OGL *except* all original or capitalized names of races, classes, abilities, feats, spells, etc. So I guess you could make and distribute data sets that used *different* names for everthing that was declared PI, but that would make the sets basically useless because they wouldn't match anything in the books.

          Ross
        • Frugal
          ... Technically what happened was that the PCGen powers that be said to Malhavoc Press We know that we have a legal right to
          Message 4 of 20 , Oct 24, 2003
            <quote who="Steven Gilroy">
            > So the publisher, Monte Cook / Malhavoc Press, has been asked but they
            > declined to give permission to include the stuff that we already,
            > legally, have permission to include?

            Technically what happened was that the PCGen powers that be said to
            Malhavoc Press "We know that we have a legal right to distribute datasets
            based on your books, but we want to stay on your good side, so if you do
            not want us to then we will not"

            Basically rather than cause antagonism and maybe cause some future
            publications to not be OGL it is seen as better that PCGen does not
            distribute some datasets in order that the roleplaying community as a
            whole gets more stuff.

            --
            regards,
            Frugal
            -OS Chimp
          • Mynex WOW
            Okay... Talked to AEG and WotC about this... WotC doesn t know offhand about how intertwined and what/if any problems there could be, so for now I ll let em be
            Message 5 of 20 , Oct 24, 2003
              Okay... Talked to AEG and WotC about this... WotC doesn't know offhand about
              how intertwined and what/if any problems there could be, so for now I'll let
              em be until it's sorted out a bit more...

              I spoke to Ray Lowe (Sp?) Who's the Line manager for L5R and he's not
              familiar with PCGen or CMP, so I gave him a brief explanation, and he's
              going to talk to Ken Carpenter for more info, the president John Zinser and
              possibly Patrick "Spycraft" Kapera for more info on his end and get back to
              me...

              The general overview (I own most of L5R, just haven't read it) is that L5R
              lays on top of the OA base set... kind of like FR where everything ties back
              into FRCS... That's how I understand it working, so if I'm wrong, please
              correct me...

              Given my assumption about the mechanics, it would need to be that the sets
              would have to be designed around the OA set... meaning anything that was OA
              specific could _not_ be in the L5R sets in any form. That complicates
              things tremendously... In short, it would _require_ someone to buy the OA
              set from CMP just to be able to use the L5R sets correctly. While I'm not
              opposed to making money, I'm not comfortable requiring people to buy stuff
              from us to use the free sets. I mean, there's no SRD for OA to draw from...
              *sigh*

              So I guess at this point, for the PCGen end of things, the question comes
              down to, what are people's thought about this and do you want do it? Anyone
              have any alternate ideas on how we could get this done?

              W. Robert Reed III
              Mynex
              - #1 Evil Monkey
              - Code Monkey Publishing Co-Founder
              - El Mono Calvo Malvado


              -----Original Message-----
              From: Steven Gilroy [mailto:sgilroy2@...]
              Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 12:56 PM
              To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [pcgen] Thoughts about OGL material

              You go boy!

              Mynex WOW wrote:

              >Well, it _could_ but the Rokugan lines all refer to IP material.
              >
              >*ponder*
              >
              >We could do like we need to with Spycraft... The files could be made and we
              >could put them in our freebies section for download on the CMP boards...
              >That should cover any issues over IP and license stuff...
              >
              >Let me double check that one just to make sure, but I think that would
              cover
              >all the IP/License issues and still make sure the files were free...
              >
              >We'd probably have to do some tweaking of any Rokugan files to make sure
              >they worked cleanly with the OA set, but we can work that bit out once we
              >find out if this way is clear.
              >
              >*sigh* Licensing is a right royal pain. :(
              >
              >W. Robert Reed III
              >Mynex
              >- #1 Evil Monkey
              >- Code Monkey Publishing Co-Founder
              >- El Mono Calvo Malvado
              >
              >
              >-----Original Message-----
              >From: JP [mailto:lstmonkey@...]
              >Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 12:43 PM
              >To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
              >Subject: Re: [pcgen] Thoughts about OGL material (was: Arcana Unearthed)
              >
              >on 10/24/03 11:35 AM, Keith Davies at keith.davies@... wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              >>On Fri, Oct 24, 2003 at 12:27:39PM -0400, Mark Perneta wrote:
              >>
              >>
              >>> On the subject of OGL material, my real query is about
              >>>Rokugan. It appears to need some kind of agreement, even though their
              >>>OGL statement says that it is their explicit intent to make as much of
              >>>it open as possible. They even have a limited license to allow others
              >>>to use their PI names when referring to mechanical aspects in print.
              >>>However, there doesn't seem to be a project underway to get any of
              >>>those books into PCGen - odd given the apparently large and
              >>>semi-fanatical following that Rokugan has.
              >>>
              >>>
              >>It sits on top of Oriental Adventures, which isn't OGL. Without the
              >>rules from OA, it's *really* hard to implement Rokugan, so a project
              >>hasn't started (so far as I know) to get Rokugan implemented.
              >>
              >>
              >
              >I was asked about this earlier today, actually.
              >
              >Couldn't this overlay on top of the Oriental Adventures from CMP?
              >
              >Can that be done without causing licensing problems?
              >
              >
              >

              --

              Steven Gilroy
              PCGen OS Lemur
              "In a world without fences, who needs GATES?"




              PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
              PCGen's alpha build: http://rpg.plambert.net/pcgen
              PCGen's FAQ:
              http://rpg.plambert.net/pcgen/current/_docs/
              To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              pcgen-unsubscribe@egroups.com

              Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            • Brass Tilde
              ... from... ... Anyone ... I thought that OA, or portions thereof, was one of the candidate works for inclusion in a future SRD?
              Message 6 of 20 , Oct 24, 2003
                > from us to use the free sets. I mean, there's no SRD for OA to draw
                from...
                > *sigh*
                >
                > So I guess at this point, for the PCGen end of things, the question comes
                > down to, what are people's thought about this and do you want do it?
                Anyone
                > have any alternate ideas on how we could get this done?

                I thought that OA, or portions thereof, was one of the candidate works for
                inclusion in a future SRD?
              • Mynex WOW
                Could be, I don t honestly know or remember. If it is, cool... then all that needs doing is wait for it to be released in the SRD/RSRD or whatever form it ll
                Message 7 of 20 , Oct 24, 2003
                  Could be, I don't honestly know or remember. If it is, cool... then all
                  that needs doing is wait for it to be released in the SRD/RSRD or whatever
                  form it'll be in.


                  W. Robert Reed III
                  Mynex
                  - #1 Evil Monkey
                  - Code Monkey Publishing Co-Founder
                  - El Mono Calvo Malvado


                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Brass Tilde [mailto:brasstilde@...]
                  Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 1:37 PM
                  To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [pcgen] Thoughts about OGL material

                  > from us to use the free sets. I mean, there's no SRD for OA to draw
                  from...
                  > *sigh*
                  >
                  > So I guess at this point, for the PCGen end of things, the question comes
                  > down to, what are people's thought about this and do you want do it?
                  Anyone
                  > have any alternate ideas on how we could get this done?

                  I thought that OA, or portions thereof, was one of the candidate works for
                  inclusion in a future SRD?
                • Ian Dale
                  ... OGL *except* all original or capitalized names of races, classes, abilities, feats, spells, etc. So I guess you could make and distribute data sets that
                  Message 8 of 20 , Oct 24, 2003
                    --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Ross" <ross.lodge@e...> wrote:
                    > > It just goes for AU as far as I've seen. Everything else that he's
                    > > done is welcome in PCGen. May just have to do with how this is pretty
                    > > much a whole manual, or has too much PI, or something. *shrug*
                    >
                    > My understanding of the AU licensing is that much of the product is
                    OGL *except* all original or capitalized names of races, classes,
                    abilities, feats, spells, etc. So I guess you could make and
                    distribute data sets that used *different* names for everthing that
                    was declared PI, but that would make the sets basically useless
                    because they wouldn't match anything in the books.
                    >
                    > Ross

                    Could be that's the licensing. I'm always confused with this whole OGL
                    thing. Luckily we have Monkeys that handle all that sort of stuff. ;)

                    -Ian
                    LST Chimp
                  • Mark Perneta
                    ... Ray Lau, as I recall. ... Well, personally I have no real problem with data sets that rely on OA. I had to buy the OA hardcover to be able to make ANY
                    Message 9 of 20 , Oct 24, 2003
                      At 01:32 PM 10/24/2003 -0400, Mynex WOW wrote:
                      >I spoke to Ray Lowe (Sp?)

                      Ray Lau, as I recall.

                      >So I guess at this point, for the PCGen end of things, the question comes
                      >down to, what are people's thought about this and do you want do it? Anyone
                      >have any alternate ideas on how we could get this done?

                      Well, personally I have no real problem with data sets that rely
                      on OA. I had to buy the OA hardcover to be able to make ANY sense of all
                      the Rokugan material, after all. I know that there will be a faction that
                      will complain about this, though.
                      Hmmm, I wonder if it would be possible to play a Rokugan game
                      withOUT OA? Just using the SRD? Data set wise, the Rokugan Campaign
                      Setting (RCS, from here on) book has variants on the Samurai and Shugenja
                      base classes, as well as several other base classes. The problem you'd run
                      into is all those Feats, none of which are repeated in the RCS.
                      Ugh, a check of the Open Content declaration shows that all "new
                      classes" in Chapter 1 are OGC. So, would classes that are printed complete
                      but have as part of the header "Adapted from Oriental Adventures" be
                      "new"? Probably not. Now I know why I'm not a lawyer.

                      Mark.

                      --
                      The twentieth century was one in which limits on state power were
                      removed in order to let the intellectuals run with the ball, and they
                      screwed everything up and turned the century into an abattoir...
                      We Americans are the only ones who didn't get creamed at some point
                      during all of this. We are free and prosperous because we have
                      inherited political and value systems fabricated by a particular set
                      of eighteenth-century intellectuals who happened to get it right. But
                      we have lost touch with those intellectuals.
                      - Neal Stephenson
                    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.