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Re: Suggestion for multiple items

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  • mocha@mcs.net
    Geez, where were you when I thought of the carry flag, huh? That s a superb suggestion! There is the slight problem of legacy pcg files - I suppose if the
    Message 1 of 16 , Jul 1, 2001
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      Geez,
      where were you when I thought of the carry flag, huh? That's a superb
      suggestion!
      There is the slight problem of legacy pcg files - I suppose if the
      carried number is "Y" that I'll assume all of them are being carried
      (which is how it works now) and if it's "N" then that's basically a 0.
      Egads, that's a simple solution. Thanks for thinking of that!

      -Bryan

      --- In pcgen@y..., "Yosemite Sam" <churcht@b...> wrote:
      > A thought occurred to me this morning. If the carried-flag value was
      > changed to an int, Bryan wouldn't have to add a split button. You
      could buy
      > more than 1 of an item and designate how many to carry. For weapons, if
      > more than one is carried, if it is also equipped, assume one in each
      hand.
    • Lonestar
      Hi everyone! I found another little feature that should be tweaked: When you re not a Cleric you should be able to choose a diety independent of the Followers
      Message 2 of 16 , Jul 1, 2001
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        Hi everyone!

        I found another little feature that should be tweaked:
        When you're not a Cleric you should be able to choose a diety
        independent of the Followers Alignment. In the campaign I'm DMing (FR,
        right after the times of trouble) basically everyone believes in a god
        and why shouldn't a Lawful Neutral monk believe in Lathander (NG,
        Followers (Priests): LG, NG, CG)?

        Feature requests/GUI changes:
        Stats tab:
        whats the sense of the big empty space under the stats
        table? can't we have the races table undter the stats table, so it
        would have more space for all those columns.
        Another idea would be putting the min/max stat fields there as well as
        the unlimited stat pool checkbos, the use purchase mode checkbox and
        the purchase mode table. After all those are character-specific
        settings wich may vary from char to char.
        The Pool field should be manually editable.




        *ducking for cover* ,

        Lonestar mailto:Lonestar@...
      • arcady
        ... _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
        Message 3 of 16 , Jul 1, 2001
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          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: Lonestar [mailto:Lonestar@...]
          > Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2001 11:29 AM
          > To: mocha@...
          > Subject: [pcgen] BUG/FEATURES
          >
          >
          > Hi everyone!
          >
          > I found another little feature that should be tweaked:
          > When you're not a Cleric you should be able to choose a diety
          > independent of the Followers Alignment. In the campaign I'm DMing (FR,
          > right after the times of trouble) basically everyone believes in a god
          > and why shouldn't a Lawful Neutral monk believe in Lathander (NG,
          > Followers (Priests): LG, NG, CG)?
          >

          Well you're choosing the deity that is close to your heart. So it should
          still be bound by alignment.

          Everyone believes in all of the deities; because they're all there.
          There is no concept of 'faith' in a world where the divine has a material
          presence. It's not about belief; it's about who is special to your heart and
          your lifestyle.


          _________________________________________________________
          Do You Yahoo!?
          Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com
        • Brandon Blackmoor
          ... A human being s heart does not have sharp edges, and deities often have more than one aspect. Chosen deity should not be restricted by alignment. Leave
          Message 4 of 16 , Jul 1, 2001
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            > From: arcady [mailto:arcady0@...]
            > Subject: RE: [pcgen] BUG/FEATURES
            >
            >
            > Well you're choosing the deity that is close to your heart.
            > So it should still be bound by alignment.

            A human being's heart does not have sharp edges, and deities often
            have more than one aspect. Chosen deity should not be restricted by
            alignment. Leave that for the DM to put restrictions on, if she wants
            to.

            bblackmoor@...
            1 july 2001
          • Lonestar
            ... a Well you re choosing the deity that is close to your heart. So it should a still be bound by alignment. a Everyone believes in all of the deities;
            Message 5 of 16 , Jul 1, 2001
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              >> I found another little feature that should be tweaked:
              >> When you're not a Cleric you should be able to choose a diety
              >> independent of the Followers Alignment. In the campaign I'm DMing (FR,
              >> right after the times of trouble) basically everyone believes in a god
              >> and why shouldn't a Lawful Neutral monk believe in Lathander (NG,
              >> Followers (Priests): LG, NG, CG)?
              >>

              a> Well you're choosing the deity that is close to your heart. So it should
              a> still be bound by alignment.

              a> Everyone believes in all of the deities; because they're all there.
              a> There is no concept of 'faith' in a world where the divine has a material
              a> presence. It's not about belief; it's about who is special to your heart and
              a> your lifestyle.

              In the Forgotten Realms you know that all the gods exist but you
              believe in the one who's ways are closest to yours. That doesn't mean
              you'll have to be of the same alignment. Who says that you have to be
              lawful to belive in a god of the dead (in the FR the god of the Dead
              is actually LN)? Who says that you have to be good to believe in
              magic?
              After all, alignments are not laws how you char has to behave, they're
              more like a general index for his overall behaviour.
              If a god wants his priests to be of a certain alignment, ok, but a god
              can't prevent anyone to say, "hey, I believe in you".

              I mean having a certain alingment doesn't mean having a certain
              lifestyle. Lets take true neutral for example: 2 extreme
              interpretations of that alignment could be
              - you switch sides all the time to keep perfect balance between good
              and evil
              - you don't really care about what everyone else is doing

              The first might believe in a god of war while the second might believe
              in a god of boredom ;)

              Besides, chars who don't believe in a god in the Realms can't be
              raised.


              Lonestar mailto:Lonestar@...
            • rabrhe@yahoo.com
              ... All the classes (cleric, druid, paladin, ranger at 4th level or above, blackguard, arcane devotee, divine champion, divine disciple, divine seeker, maybe
              Message 6 of 16 , Jul 1, 2001
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                >>> I found another little feature that should be tweaked:
                >>> When you're not a Cleric you should be able to choose a diety
                >>> independent of the Followers Alignment.

                >> Well you're choosing the deity that is close to your heart. So it
                >> should still be bound by alignment.

                > In the Forgotten Realms you know that all the gods exist but you
                > believe in the one who's ways are closest to yours. That doesn't
                > mean you'll have to be of the same alignment.

                All the classes (cleric, druid, paladin, ranger at 4th level or above,
                blackguard, arcane devotee, divine champion, divine disciple, divine
                seeker, maybe some others) that require patron deities in FR also
                require that you be alignment-qualified to serve that deity. Now,
                yes, if you aren't one of those classes, you can have a patron deity
                of divergent alignment; but there are no game effects to that choice
                in PCGen terms. So, unless you are of one of those classes, it's
                really a background detail that is handled perfectly well by the
                character description.

                Otherwise, you need to add code that would specifically make checks to
                disqualify you from certain classes based on alignment-and-patron
                combination; e.g. from the Arcane Devotee class if you were a true
                neutral wizard who worshipped Mystra.
              • Lonestar
                ryc All the classes (cleric, druid, paladin, ranger at 4th level or above, ryc blackguard, arcane devotee, divine champion, divine disciple, divine ryc
                Message 7 of 16 , Jul 1, 2001
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                  ryc> All the classes (cleric, druid, paladin, ranger at 4th level or above,
                  ryc> blackguard, arcane devotee, divine champion, divine disciple, divine
                  ryc> seeker, maybe some others) that require patron deities in FR also
                  ryc> require that you be alignment-qualified to serve that deity. Now,
                  ryc> yes, if you aren't one of those classes, you can have a patron deity
                  ryc> of divergent alignment; but there are no game effects to that choice
                  ryc> in PCGen terms. So, unless you are of one of those classes, it's
                  ryc> really a background detail that is handled perfectly well by the
                  ryc> character description.

                  ryc> Otherwise, you need to add code that would specifically make checks to
                  ryc> disqualify you from certain classes based on alignment-and-patron
                  ryc> combination; e.g. from the Arcane Devotee class if you were a true
                  ryc> neutral wizard who worshipped Mystra.

                  how about a "ignore alignment restrictions"-checkbox?


                  Lonestar mailto:Lonestar@...
                • rabrhe@yahoo.com
                  ... That d work.
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jul 1, 2001
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                    --- In pcgen@y..., Lonestar <Lonestar@l...> wrote:
                    > how about a "ignore alignment restrictions"-checkbox?

                    That'd work.
                  • Brandon Blackmoor
                    ... Not if the program prevents you from selecting your chosen alignment, which it inexplicably does. Which brings me to what will undoubtedly be an unpopular
                    Message 9 of 16 , Jul 1, 2001
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                      > From: rabrhe@... [mailto:rabrhe@...]
                      > Subject: [pcgen] Re: BUG/FEATURES
                      >
                      > So, unless you are of one of those classes, it's
                      > really a background detail that is handled
                      > perfectly well by the character description.

                      Not if the program prevents you from selecting your chosen alignment,
                      which it inexplicably does.

                      Which brings me to what will undoubtedly be an unpopular observation:

                      PCGen tries to do too much. This is why it fails at nearly everything.
                      It can't even add up purchase-mode stats, for pete's sake.

                      Start off small: choose a class, choose stats, choose a race and let
                      it modify those stats. Once that's *working*, *then* move on to skills
                      and whether they're cross-class, and what the stat adjustments for
                      those skills are. Once *that* is working, move on to spell lists based
                      on class. And way, way, way down the road, when the basic stuff ALL
                      *works*, tackle optional widgets like prestige classes.

                      (I won't even get into the interface issues, which need every bit as
                      much planning and obviously aren't getting it either.)

                      That's my two cents.

                      bblackmoor@...
                      1 july 2001
                    • rabrhe@yahoo.com
                      ... Huh? I was suggesting that, if the deity you follow isn t relevant to class skills, that you put it in the textbox called Description on the Traits tab,
                      Message 10 of 16 , Jul 1, 2001
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                        --- In pcgen@y..., "Brandon Blackmoor" <bblackmoor@b...> wrote:
                        > > From: rabrhe@y... [mailto:rabrhe@y...]
                        > > Subject: [pcgen] Re: BUG/FEATURES
                        > >
                        > > So, unless you are of one of those classes, it's
                        > > really a background detail that is handled
                        > > perfectly well by the character description.
                        >
                        > Not if the program prevents you from selecting your chosen alignment,
                        > which it inexplicably does.

                        Huh?

                        I was suggesting that, if the deity you follow isn't relevant to class
                        skills, that you put it in the textbox called "Description" on the
                        Traits tab, instead of selecting it on the domains tab. What the hell
                        does your "chosen alignment" have to do with that?
                      • Brandon Blackmoor
                        ... Perhaps the previous messages have not reached your mail server, but when they do it ll make sense to you. I guess I should have quoted more of the
                        Message 11 of 16 , Jul 1, 2001
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                          > From: rabrhe@... [mailto:rabrhe@...]
                          > Subject: [pcgen] Re: BUG/FEATURES
                          >
                          > What the hell does your "chosen alignment" have to do
                          > with that?

                          Perhaps the previous messages have not reached your mail server, but
                          when they do it'll make sense to you. I guess I should have quoted
                          more of the previous messages.

                          blackmoor@...
                          1 july 2001
                        • mocha@mcs.net
                          Would we want something broader than that? I mean - if we re going to allow bypass of restrictions on Deities, should it be just for these non-consequential
                          Message 12 of 16 , Jul 1, 2001
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                            Would we want something broader than that? I mean - if we're going to
                            allow bypass of restrictions on Deities, should it be just for these
                            'non-consequential' classes? (not a cleric, paladin, or divine spell
                            caster who actually gains material benefit from the deity chosen)
                            What about the restrictions on selecting feats, prestige classes,
                            domains, etc.? This could potentially be a pandora's box... what
                            restrictions do we allow to be bypassed and under what circumstances?
                            This is kind of like putting restrictions on restrictions... :)

                            -Bryan

                            --- In pcgen@y..., rabrhe@y... wrote:
                            > --- In pcgen@y..., Lonestar <Lonestar@l...> wrote:
                            > > how about a "ignore alignment restrictions"-checkbox?
                            >
                            > That'd work.
                          • rodac@pnv.net
                            ... to ... circumstances? ... I think instead of a ignore switch/box you should code it to force divine caster to pick correctly and allow others to pick
                            Message 13 of 16 , Jul 1, 2001
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                              --- In pcgen@y..., mocha@m... wrote:
                              > Would we want something broader than that? I mean - if we're going
                              to
                              > allow bypass of restrictions on Deities, should it be just for these
                              > 'non-consequential' classes? (not a cleric, paladin, or divine spell
                              > caster who actually gains material benefit from the deity chosen)
                              > What about the restrictions on selecting feats, prestige classes,
                              > domains, etc.? This could potentially be a pandora's box... what
                              > restrictions do we allow to be bypassed and under what
                              circumstances?
                              > This is kind of like putting restrictions on restrictions... :)
                              >
                              > -Bryan
                              >
                              > --- In pcgen@y..., rabrhe@y... wrote:
                              > > --- In pcgen@y..., Lonestar <Lonestar@l...> wrote:
                              > > > how about a "ignore alignment restrictions"-checkbox?
                              > >
                              > > That'd work.

                              I think instead of a "ignore" switch/box you should code it to force
                              divine caster to pick correctly and allow others to pick what they
                              want. But do you want this in as part of the main system or can it be
                              coded for campaign? Its a FR thingy. Even though I dont use the
                              campaign 'world' for FR I do use some of its rules and this is one of
                              them. Maybe you should be able to select any deity, ignoring the
                              qualifier. But still keep the qualifier there so Divine casters can
                              use the filter for qualified Deities to make their selection. Or
                              force it to filter qualified deities for anyone who is a divine
                              caster and allow others to do as they wish.
                              -rodney
                            • Lonestar
                              mmn Would we want something broader than that? I mean - if we re going to mmn allow bypass of restrictions on Deities, should it be just for these mmn
                              Message 14 of 16 , Jul 1, 2001
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                                mmn> Would we want something broader than that? I mean - if we're going to
                                mmn> allow bypass of restrictions on Deities, should it be just for these
                                mmn> 'non-consequential' classes? (not a cleric, paladin, or divine spell
                                mmn> caster who actually gains material benefit from the deity chosen)
                                mmn> What about the restrictions on selecting feats, prestige classes,
                                mmn> domains, etc.? This could potentially be a pandora's box... what
                                mmn> restrictions do we allow to be bypassed and under what circumstances?
                                mmn> This is kind of like putting restrictions on restrictions... :)

                                mmn> --- In pcgen@y..., rabrhe@y... wrote:
                                >> --- In pcgen@y..., Lonestar <Lonestar@l...> wrote:
                                >> > how about a "ignore alignment restrictions"-checkbox?

                                Well, I don't wan't to completely switch off that restriction for all
                                cases, I just want my players to be able to select their diety which
                                then should appear in the diety field on the char sheet ;)
                                It might be a good idea though to have a Options tab for each char
                                where you can customize the restrictions, maybe with some sort of
                                logging in the pcg file or a "DM check" function that tells you which
                                restrictions were turned off while creating that char.
                                There should be an automated check function anyways....
                                One that lets the DM set up parameters for char creation like max stat
                                pool, item restriction, alignment restrictions, race restrictions and
                                such and then have the program check .pcg files if the chars were
                                created correctly.


                                Lonestar mailto:Lonestar@...
                              • mocha@mcs.net
                                Or should we simply allow any character to select a Deity and only apply the restrictions to divine spell casters or anyone who would be able to select a
                                Message 15 of 16 , Jul 2, 2001
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                                  Or should we simply allow any character to select a Deity and only
                                  apply the restrictions to divine spell casters or anyone who would be
                                  able to select a domain? That complicates things, because suppose
                                  you start off as a Wizard, select a deity, then add a level of
                                  Cleric, and suddenly you have to switch deities...

                                  -Bryan

                                  --- In pcgen@y..., Lonestar <Lonestar@l...> wrote:
                                  > mmn> Would we want something broader than that? I mean - if we're
                                  going to
                                  > mmn> allow bypass of restrictions on Deities, should it be just for
                                  these
                                  > mmn> 'non-consequential' classes? (not a cleric, paladin, or divine
                                  spell
                                  > mmn> caster who actually gains material benefit from the deity
                                  chosen)
                                  > mmn> What about the restrictions on selecting feats, prestige
                                  classes,
                                  > mmn> domains, etc.? This could potentially be a pandora's box...
                                  what
                                  > mmn> restrictions do we allow to be bypassed and under what
                                  circumstances?
                                  > mmn> This is kind of like putting restrictions on restrictions... :)
                                  >
                                  > mmn> --- In pcgen@y..., rabrhe@y... wrote:
                                  > >> --- In pcgen@y..., Lonestar <Lonestar@l...> wrote:
                                  > >> > how about a "ignore alignment restrictions"-checkbox?
                                  >
                                  > Well, I don't wan't to completely switch off that restriction for
                                  all
                                  > cases, I just want my players to be able to select their diety which
                                  > then should appear in the diety field on the char sheet ;)
                                  > It might be a good idea though to have a Options tab for each char
                                  > where you can customize the restrictions, maybe with some sort of
                                  > logging in the pcg file or a "DM check" function that tells you
                                  which
                                  > restrictions were turned off while creating that char.
                                  > There should be an automated check function anyways....
                                  > One that lets the DM set up parameters for char creation like max
                                  stat
                                  > pool, item restriction, alignment restrictions, race restrictions
                                  and
                                  > such and then have the program check .pcg files if the chars were
                                  > created correctly.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Lonestar mailto:Lonestar@l...
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