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Re: PCGen 5.3.1 is available

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  • B. K. Oxley (binkley)
    ... And if there is a serious bug in development, 5.3.1, that would be my fault. :-) In my haste to fix unqualified feats still giving you a bonus, I broke
    Message 1 of 21 , Jul 3, 2003
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      --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Barak" <barak@v...> wrote:
      > I bnelieve that unless there's a serious bug in a stable that requires a
      > patch, you won't see additional release to the 5.evennumber releases.

      And if there is a serious bug in development, 5.3.1, that would be my fault. :-) In my
      haste to fix unqualified feats still giving you a bonus, I broke feats in general for ones
      that you only qualify for at first level.

      The code makes no distinction between the two meanings of qualify -- qualify to take
      and qualify to use -- and so my fix is brain-damaged. Sorry about that!
    • Graeme Adamson
      Is it just my imagination, or is 5.3.1 very slow - it seems markedly slower than 5.2 on my system (Win2K on P3 866MHz, 256MB RAM), which is admittedly quite a
      Message 2 of 21 , Jul 3, 2003
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        Is it just my imagination, or is 5.3.1 very slow - it seems markedly
        slower than 5.2 on my system (Win2K on P3 866MHz, 256MB RAM), which is
        admittedly quite a slug.

        Graeme



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      • Thomas Jannes
        I m having the same problem with my 5.3.1. Old characters, with custom-made classes (some loosely based on the revoked WOTC lst files) are so slow to load, I
        Message 3 of 21 , Jul 3, 2003
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          I'm having the same problem with my 5.3.1. Old characters, with
          custom-made classes (some loosely based on the revoked WOTC lst files)
          are so slow to load, I first thought PCGen just wouldn't load them.

          A completely new char *might* be slower, haven't checked thoroughly.
          Still not sure if the speed might be due to the many ugly fixes I put
          in some lst files...


          > Is it just my imagination, or is 5.3.1 very slow - it seems markedly
          > slower than 5.2 on my system (Win2K on P3 866MHz, 256MB RAM), which is
          > admittedly quite a slug.

          > Graeme





          Best regards,

          =========================================================================
          Thomas Jannes Tel. 32-2-6503729
          Computer Center VUB ULB Fax. 32-2-6503740
          Pleinlaan 2, 1050 Brussels Belgium email: tjannes@...
          =========================================================================
        • Stefan Radermacher
          ... Same here, earlier I created a new character, and entering skills really was a pain. Adding skill points took about 10 secaonds per change... -- Regards,
          Message 4 of 21 , Jul 3, 2003
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            > I'm having the same problem with my 5.3.1. Old characters, with
            > custom-made classes (some loosely based on the revoked WOTC lst files)
            > are so slow to load, I first thought PCGen just wouldn't load them.
            Same here, earlier I created a new character, and entering skills
            really was a pain. Adding skill points took about 10 secaonds per
            change...

            --
            Regards,
            Stefan.

            E-Mail: stefan@...
            PGP-Key: http://www.zaister.de/pgpkey.asc
          • Rob Bowell
            I have a P4 1.3 GHz with 512 MB RAM running Windows XP. With a 4th level bard, it took 2-3 seconds to add a skill point. This seems a little slower than
            Message 5 of 21 , Jul 3, 2003
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              I have a P4 1.3 GHz with 512 MB RAM running Windows XP. With a 4th level
              bard, it took 2-3 seconds to add a skill point. This seems a little
              slower than normal, but liveable.

              (I don't really know if there is a problem or not, but I just add this as
              a data point, not advocating any particular viewpoint :))

              On Thu, 3 Jul 2003, Stefan Radermacher wrote:

              > > I'm having the same problem with my 5.3.1. Old characters, with
              > > custom-made classes (some loosely based on the revoked WOTC lst files)
              > > are so slow to load, I first thought PCGen just wouldn't load them.
              > Same here, earlier I created a new character, and entering skills
              > really was a pain. Adding skill points took about 10 secaonds per
              > change...
              >
              > --
              > Regards,
              > Stefan.
              >
              > E-Mail: stefan@...
              > PGP-Key: http://www.zaister.de/pgpkey.asc
              >
              >
              >
              > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
              > PCGen's FAQ: http://pedertest.officeline.no/PCGen
              > PCGen's alpha build: http://rpg.plambert.net/pcgen
              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > pcgen-unsubscribe@egroups.com
              >
              >
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >
              >
              >

              -- Rob Bowell
            • Tir Gwaith
              How does it run with just the SRD? Same as 5.2 or 5.1.8? And unless you did some MAJOR clean up, those old pulled files will cause problems. They weren t the
              Message 6 of 21 , Jul 3, 2003
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                How does it run with just the SRD? Same as 5.2 or 5.1.8?

                And unless you did some MAJOR clean up, those old pulled files will cause problems. They weren't the best files out there before they were pulled. In truth, many of them didn't make PCGen 2.6-7.x very happy either. (Something you won't find with the new CMP data files. I've got my eye on those, and we got good monkeys writing and testing them.)


                Tir Gwaith
                PCGen Data SB and BoD
                ~ Code Monkey Publishing PCGen Content Manager


                >I'm having the same problem with my 5.3.1. Old characters, with
                >custom-made classes (some loosely based on the revoked WOTC lst files)
                >are so slow to load, I first thought PCGen just wouldn't load them.
                >
                >A completely new char *might* be slower, haven't checked thoroughly.
                >Still not sure if the speed might be due to the many ugly fixes I put
                >in some lst files...
              • frugal@purplewombat.co.uk
                ... Now try it on a P300 with 64Mb and it drops to 10-15 seconds. I do not know what the minimum requirements are for PCGen, but I
                Message 7 of 21 , Jul 3, 2003
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                  <quote who="Rob Bowell">
                  > I have a P4 1.3 GHz with 512 MB RAM running Windows XP. With a 4th level
                  > bard, it took 2-3 seconds to add a skill point. This seems a little
                  > slower than normal, but liveable.

                  Now try it on a P300 with 64Mb and it drops to 10-15 seconds.

                  I do not know what the minimum requirements are for PCGen, but I have been
                  using it one a P300 for the past 9 months and I can go and make a cup of
                  tea before a character loads.

                  A question for the developers: Has there been any profiling done on PCGen?
                  It would seem from a user point of view that there is an awful lot of time
                  spent calculating the bonuses available by iterating over every single
                  feat, skill, stat and piece of equipment for the character. I wonder, has
                  anyone actually looked to see where the bottle necks are? I think that we
                  could speed PCGen up by a couple of orders of magnitude by caching more
                  information.

                  I.e. on output, when iterating over the equipment list PCGen will build a
                  completely new list for each property for each item. So for an equipment
                  list of 50 items each with about 20 properties PCgen will generate the
                  list 1000 times. Plus it will also generate the list each time a skill or
                  stat is examined so that it can get the bonuses.

                  --
                  regards,
                  Frugal
                  -OS Tamarin
                • merton_monk
                  I believe profiling has been done, and is currently being discussed by the developers. It seemed to me that 5.1.8 was much faster - I didn t have as much time
                  Message 8 of 21 , Jul 3, 2003
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                    I believe profiling has been done, and is currently being discussed
                    by the developers. It seemed to me that 5.1.8 was much faster - I
                    didn't have as much time to play with 5.3.1, did anyone notice a
                    difference? I know some changes were made that could have impacted
                    speed, especially for systems with lower amounts of RAM. Scott
                    Ettlesworth just suggested on the developer's forum some changes that
                    are very similar to some changes I've been mulling for quite some
                    time that would help reduce significantly the amount of re-
                    calculating that PCGen does.

                    -Bryan

                    --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, frugal@p... wrote:
                    >
                    > <quote who="Rob Bowell">
                    > > I have a P4 1.3 GHz with 512 MB RAM running Windows XP. With a
                    4th level
                    > > bard, it took 2-3 seconds to add a skill point. This seems a
                    little
                    > > slower than normal, but liveable.
                    >
                    > Now try it on a P300 with 64Mb and it drops to 10-15 seconds.
                    >
                    > I do not know what the minimum requirements are for PCGen, but I
                    have been
                    > using it one a P300 for the past 9 months and I can go and make a
                    cup of
                    > tea before a character loads.
                    >
                    > A question for the developers: Has there been any profiling done on
                    PCGen?
                    > It would seem from a user point of view that there is an awful lot
                    of time
                    > spent calculating the bonuses available by iterating over every
                    single
                    > feat, skill, stat and piece of equipment for the character. I
                    wonder, has
                    > anyone actually looked to see where the bottle necks are? I think
                    that we
                    > could speed PCGen up by a couple of orders of magnitude by caching
                    more
                    > information.
                    >
                    > I.e. on output, when iterating over the equipment list PCGen will
                    build a
                    > completely new list for each property for each item. So for an
                    equipment
                    > list of 50 items each with about 20 properties PCgen will generate
                    the
                    > list 1000 times. Plus it will also generate the list each time a
                    skill or
                    > stat is examined so that it can get the bonuses.
                    >
                    > --
                    > regards,
                    > Frugal
                    > -OS Tamarin
                  • B. K. Oxley (binkley)
                    ... Does 5.1.8 include the PObjectNode speedup for children nodes?
                    Message 9 of 21 , Jul 3, 2003
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                      --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "merton_monk" <merton_monk@y...> wrote:
                      > I believe profiling has been done, and is currently being discussed
                      > by the developers. It seemed to me that 5.1.8 was much faster

                      Does 5.1.8 include the PObjectNode speedup for children nodes?
                    • Emily Smirle
                      ... I m still pushing for someone to allow me to pick a bunch of skills and add 1 or add 2 or maximum ranks them all at once, so I can go get coffee
                      Message 10 of 21 , Jul 3, 2003
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                        Rob Bowell wrote:
                        > I have a P4 1.3 GHz with 512 MB RAM running Windows XP. With a 4th level
                        > bard, it took 2-3 seconds to add a skill point. This seems a little
                        > slower than normal, but liveable.
                        >
                        > (I don't really know if there is a problem or not, but I just add this as
                        > a data point, not advocating any particular viewpoint :))
                        >
                        > On Thu, 3 Jul 2003, Stefan Radermacher wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        >>>I'm having the same problem with my 5.3.1. Old characters, with
                        >>>custom-made classes (some loosely based on the revoked WOTC lst files)
                        >>>are so slow to load, I first thought PCGen just wouldn't load them.
                        >>
                        >>Same here, earlier I created a new character, and entering skills
                        >>really was a pain. Adding skill points took about 10 secaonds per
                        >>change...


                        I'm still pushing for someone to allow me to pick a bunch of skills and
                        "add 1" or "add 2" or "maximum ranks" them all at once, so I can go get
                        coffee while the skills update. I tried to create a level 15 high int
                        human rogue. Ow.

                        My laptop is a 400mz celeron, 160-mumble MB RAM in windows XP, i'm using
                        the windows native skin.

                        My desktop is slightly faster (900mz Athalon, 384 MB RAM, WinXP) but
                        still frustrating.
                        --
                        Emily Smirle (jerril) Beware, for my Axe
                        GMGen Princess will cut you off at the knees.
                        Watch out for the spikes.
                      • krazhit
                        The latest previous PCGen I have installed is 5.1.5. For what it´s worth I am happy with it´s performance. 5.3.1 just crawls for me. When I open my 13th
                        Message 11 of 21 , Jul 4, 2003
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                          The latest previous PCGen I have installed is 5.1.5. For what it´s
                          worth I am "happy" with it´s performance.

                          5.3.1 just crawls for me. When I open my 13th lvl char. on my
                          PIII900 (Win2k Java 1.31 300MB+ RAM), PCGen just dies (admittedly
                          with several custom sources loaded).

                          I tried loading just the SRD, and created a human fighter running
                          both versions concurrently. Immediately on lvl 1. the speed
                          difference is massive. Adding and removing skills in 5.3.1. is a
                          painfully slow progress.

                          Upon realizing that, I didn´t even bother to add more levels to the
                          characters before posting here. (But will if the need arises).

                          --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Tir Gwaith" <thoron-tir-gwaith@l...>
                          wrote:
                          > How does it run with just the SRD? Same as 5.2 or 5.1.8?
                          >
                          > And unless you did some MAJOR clean up, those old pulled files will
                          cause problems. They weren't the best files out there before they
                          were pulled. In truth, many of them didn't make PCGen 2.6-7.x very
                          happy either. (Something you won't find with the new CMP data
                          files. I've got my eye on those, and we got good monkeys writing and
                          testing them.)
                          >
                          >
                          > Tir Gwaith
                          > PCGen Data SB and BoD
                          > ~ Code Monkey Publishing PCGen Content Manager
                          >
                          >
                          > >I'm having the same problem with my 5.3.1. Old characters, with
                          > >custom-made classes (some loosely based on the revoked WOTC lst
                          files)
                          > >are so slow to load, I first thought PCGen just wouldn't load them.
                          > >
                          > >A completely new char *might* be slower, haven't checked
                          thoroughly.
                          > >Still not sure if the speed might be due to the many ugly fixes I
                          put
                          > >in some lst files...
                        • Jake Furbush
                          I m having similar performance issues; 5.3.1 is well-nigh unusable on my P3/900 (Win2K, Java 1.4.0_03, 376MB). Even loading a character created in the same
                          Message 12 of 21 , Jul 5, 2003
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                            I'm having similar performance issues; 5.3.1 is well-nigh unusable on
                            my P3/900 (Win2K, Java 1.4.0_03, 376MB). Even loading a character
                            created in the same version is painful. (Fuggetabout skill-point
                            allocation.) I have some custom files, but nothing major. For what
                            it's worth, it does seem like the d20Mod Campaign files cause more of
                            a drag than the D&D files do, though I didn't do a formal test. (Will
                            be happy to do so by request.)

                            > 5.3.1 just crawls for me. When I open my 13th lvl char. on my
                            > PIII900 (Win2k Java 1.31 300MB+ RAM), PCGen just dies (admittedly
                            > with several custom sources loaded).
                            >
                            > I tried loading just the SRD, and created a human fighter running
                            > both versions concurrently. Immediately on lvl 1. the speed
                            > difference is massive. Adding and removing skills in 5.3.1. is a
                            > painfully slow progress.
                            >
                            > Upon realizing that, I didn´t even bother to add more levels to the
                            > characters before posting here. (But will if the need arises).
                          • tabeall
                            Did a quick test with the following result: V4.2.4 with PHB, MM, DMG loaded - Skill add takes just over a second. V5.2 & V5.3.1 SRD loaded - Skill add takes
                            Message 13 of 21 , Jul 5, 2003
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                              Did a quick test with the following result:

                              V4.2.4 with PHB, MM, DMG loaded - Skill add takes just over a second.

                              V5.2 & V5.3.1 SRD loaded - Skill add takes about three seconds.

                              Timed by watching the second hand on the Date/Time properties window.
                              The times were consistant through several skill adds in all versions.

                              System: Athlon classic 750, 768M Ram, Java 1.4.1_01, Win 2k.

                              Not a complete test but it does appear that something has affected
                              performance between 4.2.4 and 5.2 & 5.3.1. Still seems usable though.


                              --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Jake Furbush" <jackanapes@e...> wrote:
                              > I'm having similar performance issues; 5.3.1 is well-nigh unusable
                              on
                              > my P3/900 (Win2K, Java 1.4.0_03, 376MB). Even loading a character
                              > created in the same version is painful. (Fuggetabout skill-point
                              > allocation.) I have some custom files, but nothing major. For what
                              > it's worth, it does seem like the d20Mod Campaign files cause more
                              of
                              > a drag than the D&D files do, though I didn't do a formal test.
                              (Will
                              > be happy to do so by request.)
                              >
                              > > 5.3.1 just crawls for me. When I open my 13th lvl char. on my
                              > > PIII900 (Win2k Java 1.31 300MB+ RAM), PCGen just dies (admittedly
                              > > with several custom sources loaded).
                              > >
                              > > I tried loading just the SRD, and created a human fighter running
                              > > both versions concurrently. Immediately on lvl 1. the speed
                              > > difference is massive. Adding and removing skills in 5.3.1. is a
                              > > painfully slow progress.
                              > >
                              > > Upon realizing that, I didn´t even bother to add more levels
                              to the
                              > > characters before posting here. (But will if the need arises).
                            • chris
                              Loading 10+ Level PCs takes forever... It might have something to do with the way skills are being done now... ... second. ... window. ... versions. ...
                              Message 14 of 21 , Jul 5, 2003
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                                Loading 10+ Level PCs takes forever... It might have something to do
                                with the way skills are being done now...


                                --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "tabeall" <tabeall@y...> wrote:
                                > Did a quick test with the following result:
                                >
                                > V4.2.4 with PHB, MM, DMG loaded - Skill add takes just over a
                                second.
                                >
                                > V5.2 & V5.3.1 SRD loaded - Skill add takes about three seconds.
                                >
                                > Timed by watching the second hand on the Date/Time properties
                                window.
                                > The times were consistant through several skill adds in all
                                versions.
                                >
                                > System: Athlon classic 750, 768M Ram, Java 1.4.1_01, Win 2k.
                                >
                                > Not a complete test but it does appear that something has affected
                                > performance between 4.2.4 and 5.2 & 5.3.1. Still seems usable
                                though.
                                >
                                >
                                > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Jake Furbush" <jackanapes@e...>
                                wrote:
                                > > I'm having similar performance issues; 5.3.1 is well-nigh unusable
                                > on
                                > > my P3/900 (Win2K, Java 1.4.0_03, 376MB). Even loading a character
                                > > created in the same version is painful. (Fuggetabout skill-point
                                > > allocation.) I have some custom files, but nothing major. For
                                what
                                > > it's worth, it does seem like the d20Mod Campaign files cause more
                                > of
                                > > a drag than the D&D files do, though I didn't do a formal test.
                                > (Will
                                > > be happy to do so by request.)
                                > >
                                > > > 5.3.1 just crawls for me. When I open my 13th lvl char. on my
                                > > > PIII900 (Win2k Java 1.31 300MB+ RAM), PCGen just dies
                                (admittedly
                                > > > with several custom sources loaded).
                                > > >
                                > > > I tried loading just the SRD, and created a human fighter
                                running
                                > > > both versions concurrently. Immediately on lvl 1. the speed
                                > > > difference is massive. Adding and removing skills in 5.3.1. is
                                a
                                > > > painfully slow progress.
                                > > >
                                > > > Upon realizing that, I didn´t even bother to add more levels
                                > to the
                                > > > characters before posting here. (But will if the need arises).
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