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OT Phone line quality (was Re: file d/l size)

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  • Paul W. King
    ... 1) My phone company charges for data grade circuits, no ands, ifs or buts. 2) I work for the phone company. They do that for me, they have to do that for
    Message 1 of 11 , May 30, 2003
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      > On the original topic, have your phone company come out and test the
      > lines for data quality and see if there is anything they can do.
      > Our local phone company will make the lines data grade if they
      > aren't (since so many people use modems and faxes these days). If
      > they are your ISP, all the better (just tell them that you are
      > having problems and if you can't get them resolved, you will switch
      > to a more robust service like satalite or cable....).

      1) My phone company charges for data grade circuits, no ands, ifs or
      buts.
      2) I work for the phone company. They do that for me, they have to
      do that for everyone...not, unfortunately, going to happen.
      3) Don't want cable for privacy issues. Now, if I can convince my
      wife to get ADSL, that'd be great; dedicated line and high speed
      transmissions.

      Paul W. King
      OGL/PL SB and BoD
    • Tommy Williams
      Another thing to try also (having worked for a rural ISP) is to run a line temporarily from the computer to the NID (the little gray test box on the side of
      Message 2 of 11 , May 30, 2003
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        Another thing to try also (having worked for a rural ISP) is to run a line temporarily from the computer to the NID (the little gray test box on the side of the house). It's there for customer testing and you are supposed to have entry access to the standard phone jack in it.

        This will bypass all your house wiring, which on occasion will cause a dial-up connection to behave like yours does. Friend of mine had a similar problem in his modular home, and when they made the connections after assembling the house, they screwed em up.

        And about cable, what privacy issues? If you get any other form of broadband, you're most likely going to have the same issues and will still need to run a firewall.
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Paul W. King
        To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Friday, May 30, 2003 2:48 PM
        Subject: [pcgen] OT Phone line quality (was Re: file d/l size)


        > On the original topic, have your phone company come out and test the
        > lines for data quality and see if there is anything they can do.
        > Our local phone company will make the lines data grade if they
        > aren't (since so many people use modems and faxes these days). If
        > they are your ISP, all the better (just tell them that you are
        > having problems and if you can't get them resolved, you will switch
        > to a more robust service like satalite or cable....).

        1) My phone company charges for data grade circuits, no ands, ifs or
        buts.
        2) I work for the phone company. They do that for me, they have to
        do that for everyone...not, unfortunately, going to happen.
        3) Don't want cable for privacy issues. Now, if I can convince my
        wife to get ADSL, that'd be great; dedicated line and high speed
        transmissions.

        Paul W. King
        OGL/PL SB and BoD


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      • Keith Davies
        ... Network topology. DSL setups are generally direct from the consumer to the switching station; the only people who can monitor your traffic are with your
        Message 3 of 11 , May 30, 2003
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          On Fri, May 30, 2003 at 03:54:12PM -0400, Tommy Williams wrote:
          > Another thing to try also (having worked for a rural ISP) is to run a
          > line temporarily from the computer to the NID (the little gray test
          > box on the side of the house). It's there for customer testing and you
          > are supposed to have entry access to the standard phone jack in it.
          >
          > This will bypass all your house wiring, which on occasion will cause a
          > dial-up connection to behave like yours does. Friend of mine had a
          > similar problem in his modular home, and when they made the
          > connections after assembling the house, they screwed em up.
          >
          > And about cable, what privacy issues? If you get any other form of
          > broadband, you're most likely going to have the same issues and will
          > still need to run a firewall.

          Network topology.

          DSL setups are generally direct from the consumer to the switching
          station; the only people who can monitor your traffic are with your
          provider (or can tap the line in another fashion).

          Cable, OTOH, runs through the entire neighborhood; everyone who shares
          the loop can potentionally sniff your traffic. That's also part of the
          reason cable performance degrades over time -- if you're one of the
          first in the neighborhood, you get a big whack of the bandwidth. As
          time goes on and more subscribers join, the bandwidth is chopped into
          smaller pieces and there is more overhead involved (including higher
          collision rate).


          A B C station --- A --- B --- C
          \ | / | |
          \ | / | |
          \ | / H --- G -- F -- E -- D
          D ----- station ----- E
          / | \
          / | \
          / | \
          F G H


          Simplified diagrams, DSL and cable, respectively


          Analogy: with cable, you have a big box of postcards going from house to
          house around your neighborhood. At each house, if someone's home he
          gets to look through the postcards for the ones that belong to him, then
          they get passed along (if nobody's home -- the machine's off -- the box
          skips that house). That person also has the option of looking at the
          other postcards, if he knows what he's doing. With DSL, there's a dude
          on a motorcycle hauling ass between your house and the switching
          station. The only way to get the data is to either break into the
          systems at either end or mugging the motorcyle rider.

          A firewall will help secure the system at your end, but it does not
          protect the data being transferred. Encryption can help, but is less
          effective over cable because it is still possible (and relatively easy)
          to sniff the packets and reconstruct the data. It almost always gets
          easier to crack encryption as the sample set grows.

          Basically, a firewall helps keep traffic you don't want, out (and
          traffic you do want, in -- when I put up my firewall my internal
          throughput when *way* up because it didn't have to bounce off my
          provider's router... which also improved my external bandwidth because
          there was less contention for the external line) but doesn't protect the
          data being transferred. If the firewall is also a NAT, it can MASQ the
          IP and identities of the machine protects, helping security (somewhat)
          that way as well.


          Keith
          --
          Keith Davies
          keith.davies@...

          PCGen: <reaper/>, smartass
          "You just can't argue with a moron. It's like handling Nuclear
          waste. It's not good, it's not evil, but for Christ's sake, don't
          get any on you!!" -- Chuck, PCGen mailing list
        • Paul Grosse
          ... It can be. I ve seen it drop me every 5 minutes for an hour s worth of attempt...real pain in the...ahem...not mentionable in polite company (or
          Message 4 of 11 , May 30, 2003
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            <snip>
            > Biggest file is only a little under 3 MB, it must be REAL twitchy
            > if you can't get that, it should only take around 15 minutes at
            > 28.8.

            It can be. I've seen it drop me every 5 minutes for an hour's worth
            of attempt...real pain in the...ahem...not mentionable in polite
            company (or else I fear the wrath of Kar).

            Paul W. King
            OGL/PL SB and BoD
            </snip>

            Use Getright, that's what I do :)
          • kigmatzomat
            ... Yes and no. Most cable modem providers are configured to only accept input from a registered device. You can buy your own hardware but have to call the
            Message 5 of 11 , May 30, 2003
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              > > And about cable, what privacy issues? If you get any other form of
              > > broadband, you're most likely going to have the same issues and will
              > > still need to run a firewall.
              >
              > Network topology.
              >
              > Cable, OTOH, runs through the entire neighborhood; everyone who shares
              > the loop can potentionally sniff your traffic.

              Yes and no. Most cable modem providers are configured to only accept
              input from a registered device. You can buy your own hardware but
              have to call the carrier to get them to accept it. Mine didn't use to
              be like that but they changed. (Course they could've changed back by
              now, it's been a while since I've read the T&Cs or talked to the
              techs). That means that while you could, in theory, sniff on the
              network with an unregistered device you won't be able to do anything
              while you are. Essentially it's a distributed switch, albeit one that
              relies on end-user firmware. A good system would log the rogue device
              and all the active devices on that loop to help find mr. sniffer.

              Other carriers are more strict and pre-configure all the hardware.
              Not that this means the system's secure, there was some major screw up
              a few months back when a cable provider didn't reset the remote admin
              password from factory default and every user's cable modem could be
              hacked by anyone who'd read the manual, but it means someone's
              dedicated.

              Having worked at ISPs, I really don't worry about packet sniffing.
              There's too much data out there to worry about getting noticed. If I
              do something I don't want someone to know about I either don't do it
              or use an encrypted connection to a remote machine. Someone can break
              my SSH tunnel, but they're gonna have to want to. Of course sometimes
              I'll encrypt connections to this board just to throw them off.
              Usually right before I change all the keys again using sneakernet.

              Which reminds me, time to re-key the WLAN.

              -James McP
            • Timothy L. Miller
              ... If you re having problems with your phone line on dial-up, you will probably still have touchy performance on DSL. Doubly so since most DSL providers are
              Message 6 of 11 , May 31, 2003
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                --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Paul W. King" <kingpaul@e...> wrote:

                > 3) Don't want cable for privacy issues. Now, if I can convince my
                > wife to get ADSL, that'd be great; dedicated line and high speed
                > transmissions.
                >
                > Paul W. King
                > OGL/PL SB and BoD

                If you're having problems with your phone line on dial-up, you will
                probably still have touchy performance on DSL. Doubly so since most
                DSL providers are going to pppoe. Have you thought about Sattelite
                internet? It's got much worse ping times than even dial up, but if
                you use it for surfing/downloading, it would be just fine. I'm not
                exactly sure how they do it, but supposedly it's just as safe as
                ordinary DSL (of course, cable is quite safe nowadays too, but if you
                are concerned about it, then that's your choice).
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