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Re: [pcgen] LST Editor: Skills

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  • Keith Davies
    ... well, except that it s the target skill that documents the synergy bonus. What I d like to see is either breaking synergy bonuses out of the skills
    Message 1 of 17 , May 1 10:04 AM
      On Thu, May 01, 2003 at 11:50:19AM -0500, Paul Grosse wrote:
      > Okay, the synergy tab threw me for a loop till I figured that it's
      > actually backwards from what I was thinking. My DM has a bunch of
      > specialized categories under several of the knowledge skills, like
      > Arcana, is broken down into each of the schools, and Nature is broke
      > down into Anatomy, Biology etc. Well each of the sub classes give a
      > synergy bonus to a the parent skill. The way the synergy tag is
      > written I can never give a synergy bonus to an existing skill, like
      > Know(Arcana) with out either copying the parent, or making a MOD to
      > it, right? Shouldn't the tag be written so that you add it to the
      > skill that "gives" the synergy bonus instead of the one that
      > "receives" it, that would make it easier to create custom synergy
      > bonuses.

      well, except that it's the 'target skill' that documents the synergy
      bonus.

      What I'd like to see is either breaking synergy bonuses out of the
      skills entirely, as in (greatly abbreviated XML below):

      <skill id="skill.heal" />
      <skill id="skill.herbalism" />

      <synergy target="skill.heal" source="skill.herbalism" />
      <!-- or -->
      <bonus target="skill.heal" source="skill.herbalism" type="synergy" />

      Or, like one person suggested, allow it to be defined in either place
      (to put it in context, IIRC he was talking about assignment of spells to
      class spell lists); you'd end up with:

      <skill id="skill.heal">
      <bonus type="synergy">
      <preskill refid="skill.herbalism" min="5" />
      </bonus>
      </skill>

      <!-- or -->

      <skill id="skill.herbalism">
      <bonus refid="skill.heal" type="synergy">
      <preskill refid="skill.herbalism" min="5" />
      </bonus>
      </skill>

      I'm not satisfied with the latter examples, though. Not only the syntax
      not as elegant as I like, but I don't like being able to define things
      in more than one place. I like simple; if you can define it only in one
      place or one way, it limits the ways things can go wrong.


      Keith
      --
      Keith Davies
      keith.davies@...

      PCGen: <reaper/>, smartass
      "You just can't argue with a moron. It's like handling Nuclear
      waste. It's not good, it's not evil, but for Christ's sake, don't
      get any on you!!" -- Chuck, PCGen mailing list
    • Paul Grosse
      ... Also note that editing the actual LST file and writing the synergy tag backwards does NOT add a synergy bonus to the parent skill like one would think :(
      Message 2 of 17 , May 1 11:35 AM
        > From: Paul Grosse [mailto:pgrosse@...]
        >
        >
        > Okay, the synergy tab threw me for a loop till I figured that
        > it's actually backwards from what I was thinking. My DM has a
        > bunch of specialized categories under several of the
        > knowledge skills, like Arcana, is broken down into each of
        > the schools, and Nature is broke down into Anatomy, Biology
        > etc. Well each of the sub classes give a synergy bonus to a
        > the parent skill. The way the synergy tag is written I can
        > never give a synergy bonus to an existing skill, like
        > Know(Arcana) with out either copying the parent, or making a
        > MOD to it, right? Shouldn't the tag be written so that you
        > add it to the skill that "gives" the synergy bonus instead of
        > the one that "receives" it, that would make it easier to
        > create custom synergy bonuses.
        >
        > Paul "Yes that Paul" Grosse
        > PCGen OGL Gibbon

        Also note that editing the actual LST file and writing the synergy tag
        backwards does NOT add a synergy bonus to the parent skill like one
        would think :(
      • Tir Gwaith
        ... Huh? In either Skill.... BONUS:SKILL| | |TYPE=Synergy.STACK|PRESKILL:1,
        Message 3 of 17 , May 1 11:42 AM
          > > it, right? Shouldn't the tag be written so that you add it to the
          > > skill that "gives" the synergy bonus instead of the one that
          > > "receives" it, that would make it easier to create custom synergy
          > > bonuses.
          >
          > well, except that it's the 'target skill' that documents the synergy
          > bonus.

          Huh? In either Skill....

          BONUS:SKILL|<name of skill to get teh bonus>|<synergy
          bonus>|TYPE=Synergy.STACK|PRESKILL:1,<name of skill that required ranks
          grant the bonus>=<number of ranks required>

          will work. So I can put
          BONUS:SKILL|MyFirstSkill|2|TYPE=Synergy.STACK|PRESKILL:1,MySecondSkill=5
          In EITHER skill, and it will grant the bonus to MyFirstSkill, so long as I
          have 5 ranks in MySecondSkill.

          Heck, you could move them all to a template if you wanted, that way you
          could easily turn the Synergy bonuses on or off.....

          Tir Gwaith
          PCGen BoD
          Data Silverback
        • Paul Grosse
          ... Huh? In either Skill.... BONUS:SKILL| | |TYPE=Synergy.STACK|PRESKILL:1,
          Message 4 of 17 , May 1 11:57 AM
            <snip>
            > > it, right? Shouldn't the tag be written so that you add it to the
            > > skill that "gives" the synergy bonus instead of the one that
            > > "receives" it, that would make it easier to create custom synergy
            > > bonuses.
            >
            > well, except that it's the 'target skill' that documents the synergy
            > bonus.

            Huh? In either Skill....

            BONUS:SKILL|<name of skill to get teh bonus>|<synergy
            bonus>|TYPE=Synergy.STACK|PRESKILL:1,<name of skill that required
            ranks
            grant the bonus>=<number of ranks required>

            will work. So I can put
            BONUS:SKILL|MyFirstSkill|2|TYPE=Synergy.STACK|PRESKILL:1,MySecondSkill
            =5
            In EITHER skill, and it will grant the bonus to MyFirstSkill, so long
            as I
            have 5 ranks in MySecondSkill.

            Heck, you could move them all to a template if you wanted, that way
            you
            could easily turn the Synergy bonuses on or off.....

            Tir Gwaith
            PCGen BoD
            Data Silverback
            </snip>

            I tried that Tir, it didn't work for me. Hmm, maybe I have a
            misspelled word somewhere throwing it off

            <start of skill line>
            Knowledge (Arcana: Arcane Magic)<tab>
            KEYSTAT:INT<tab>
            USEUNTRAINED:NO<tab>
            BONUS:SKILL|Knowledge (Arcana)|2|PRESKILL:1,Knowledge (Arcane
            Magic)=5|TYPE=Synergy.STACK<tab>
            TYPE:INTELLIGENCE.KNOWLEDGE.CUSTOM<tab>
            SOURCEPAGE:DPHB, v1.17
            </Skill line>

            Doh! I see my error the 2nd skill is wrong, although does the TYPE
            have to be in the middle? The LST editor puts it at the end of the
            BONUS tag.
          • Keith Davies
            ... Ah, okay. I d only seen it in the target skill and it didn t leap out of the doco at me. Keith -- Keith Davies keith.davies@kjdavies.org PCGen: ,
            Message 5 of 17 , May 1 12:02 PM
              On Thu, May 01, 2003 at 01:42:28PM -0500, Tir Gwaith wrote:
              > > > it, right? Shouldn't the tag be written so that you add it to the
              > > > skill that "gives" the synergy bonus instead of the one that
              > > > "receives" it, that would make it easier to create custom synergy
              > > > bonuses.
              > >
              > > well, except that it's the 'target skill' that documents the synergy
              > > bonus.
              >
              > Huh? In either Skill....
              >
              > BONUS:SKILL|<name of skill to get teh bonus>|<synergy
              > bonus>|TYPE=Synergy.STACK|PRESKILL:1,<name of skill that required ranks
              > grant the bonus>=<number of ranks required>
              >
              > will work. So I can put
              > BONUS:SKILL|MyFirstSkill|2|TYPE=Synergy.STACK|PRESKILL:1,MySecondSkill=5
              > In EITHER skill, and it will grant the bonus to MyFirstSkill, so long as I
              > have 5 ranks in MySecondSkill.

              Ah, okay. I'd only seen it in the target skill and it didn't leap out
              of the doco at me.


              Keith
              --
              Keith Davies
              keith.davies@...

              PCGen: <reaper/>, smartass
              "You just can't argue with a moron. It's like handling Nuclear
              waste. It's not good, it's not evil, but for Christ's sake, don't
              get any on you!!" -- Chuck, PCGen mailing list
            • Daniel Fenwick
              I think this is a simple question. My DM has given everyone in the party who was present for a specific adventure two ranks in a particular skill. How do I
              Message 6 of 17 , May 1 12:44 PM
                I think this is a simple question. My DM has given everyone in the party
                who was present for a specific adventure two ranks in a particular skill.
                How do I add this to the characters?

                Thanks.

                Dan
              • Tommy Williams
                Easiest way would be to manually add 2 points to your skill points at the bottom of the skills tab. Then just add the skill as you normally would, unless its a
                Message 7 of 17 , May 1 1:09 PM
                  Easiest way would be to manually add 2 points to your skill points at the bottom of the skills tab. Then just add the skill as you normally would, unless its a cross class skill for you. In that case, you'll need to add 4 points.
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Daniel Fenwick
                  To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 3:44 PM
                  Subject: [pcgen] Simple question


                  I think this is a simple question. My DM has given everyone in the party
                  who was present for a specific adventure two ranks in a particular skill.
                  How do I add this to the characters?

                  Thanks.

                  Dan


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                • Tir Gwaith
                  ... Nope. The different |TYPE= and |PRExxx are interchangeable (the part up to the bonus formula has to be in order tho). You can only have one TYPE=
                  Message 8 of 17 , May 1 1:16 PM
                    > Doh! I see my error the 2nd skill is wrong, although does the TYPE
                    > have to be in the middle? The LST editor puts it at the end of the
                    > BONUS tag.
                    >

                    Nope. The different |TYPE= and |PRExxx are interchangeable (the part up to
                    the bonus formula has to be in order tho). You can only have one TYPE=
                    statement for the bonus, but you can have as many PRExxx statements as you'd
                    like.

                    Tir Gwaith
                    PCGen BoD
                    Data Silverback
                  • merton_monk
                    Or you could create a template that has a +2 in each of the specified skills and apply that to each character. Creating this template in the template Lst
                    Message 9 of 17 , May 1 1:18 PM
                      Or you could create a template that has a +2 in each of the specified
                      skills and apply that to each character. Creating this template in
                      the template Lst Editor shouldn't be hard. Manually upping their
                      ranks in the skills tab works, but may cause problems with regards to
                      Max Ranks. You coul create a Custom item that has a +2 in each of the
                      skills and make sure that everyone equips one (make it a non-slot
                      item, like a gold coin)

                      -Bryan

                      --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Tommy Williams" <aarn_d@h...> wrote:
                      > Easiest way would be to manually add 2 points to your skill points
                      at the bottom of the skills tab. Then just add the skill as you
                      normally would, unless its a cross class skill for you. In that case,
                      you'll need to add 4 points.
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: Daniel Fenwick
                      > To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 3:44 PM
                      > Subject: [pcgen] Simple question
                      >
                      >
                      > I think this is a simple question. My DM has given everyone in
                      the party
                      > who was present for a specific adventure two ranks in a
                      particular skill.
                      > How do I add this to the characters?
                      >
                      > Thanks.
                      >
                      > Dan
                      >
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                      > PCGen's FAQ: http://pedertest.officeline.no/PCGen
                      > PCGen's alpha build: http://rpg.plambert.net/pcgen
                      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      > pcgen-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                      Service.
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Daniel Fenwick
                      Thanks for the suggestions. :) Dan
                      Message 10 of 17 , May 1 8:04 PM
                        Thanks for the suggestions. :)

                        Dan
                      • Luc Holland
                        Where do I find how PC Gen handles levels for characters? Is it modifiable? TIA, Luc
                        Message 11 of 17 , May 1 8:17 PM
                          Where do I find how PC Gen handles levels for characters? Is it modifiable?

                          TIA,
                          Luc
                        • merton_monk
                          ... modifiable? Very modifiable. What about the levels did you want to modify, and for which class(es)? -Bryan
                          Message 12 of 17 , May 1 9:43 PM
                            --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Luc Holland <holland@c...> wrote:
                            > Where do I find how PC Gen handles levels for characters? Is it
                            modifiable?

                            Very modifiable. What about the levels did you want to modify, and
                            for which class(es)?

                            -Bryan

                            >
                            > TIA,
                            > Luc
                          • Luc Holland
                            I was wondering (pre-ELH inclusion) how I could get levels 21-24 (or higher) available for any class, but specifically cleric for 3ed. What files do I need to
                            Message 13 of 17 , May 3 9:53 PM
                              I was wondering (pre-ELH inclusion) how I could get levels 21-24 (or higher)
                              available for any class, but specifically cleric for 3ed. What files do I
                              need to look at? I looked at most files and found
                              PCGen\system\gameModes\DnD\level.lst but in PCGen it won't allow me to add a
                              level past 20 in a class.

                              Luc

                              > -----Original Message-----
                              > From: merton_monk
                              > Subject: [pcgen] Re: XP tables in PCGen
                              >
                              > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Luc Holland <holland@c...> wrote:
                              > > Where do I find how PC Gen handles levels for characters? Is it
                              > modifiable?
                              >
                              > Very modifiable. What about the levels did you want to modify, and
                              > for which class(es)?
                              >
                              > -Bryan
                              >
                              > >
                              > > TIA,
                              > > Luc
                            • Tommy Williams
                              To go past level 20, you have to check the ignore level caps or somesuch in the house rules section of the options. Unfortunately this will continue the
                              Message 14 of 17 , May 5 1:33 PM
                                To go past level 20, you have to check the "ignore level caps" or somesuch in the house rules section of the options. Unfortunately this will continue the normal BAB and save progression and id NOT ELH compliant.

                                If you want to code it yourself per ELH rules, send me an email off-list and I'll be glad to help you.
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: Luc Holland
                                To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2003 12:53 AM
                                Subject: RE: [pcgen] Re: XP tables in PCGen


                                I was wondering (pre-ELH inclusion) how I could get levels 21-24 (or higher)
                                available for any class, but specifically cleric for 3ed. What files do I
                                need to look at? I looked at most files and found
                                PCGen\system\gameModes\DnD\level.lst but in PCGen it won't allow me to add a
                                level past 20 in a class.

                                Luc

                                > -----Original Message-----
                                > From: merton_monk
                                > Subject: [pcgen] Re: XP tables in PCGen
                                >
                                > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Luc Holland <holland@c...> wrote:
                                > > Where do I find how PC Gen handles levels for characters? Is it
                                > modifiable?
                                >
                                > Very modifiable. What about the levels did you want to modify, and
                                > for which class(es)?
                                >
                                > -Bryan
                                >
                                > >
                                > > TIA,
                                > > Luc


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