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LST Editor: Skills

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  • Paul Grosse
    Okay, the synergy tab threw me for a loop till I figured that it s actually backwards from what I was thinking. My DM has a bunch of specialized categories
    Message 1 of 17 , May 1, 2003
      Okay, the synergy tab threw me for a loop till I figured that it's
      actually backwards from what I was thinking. My DM has a bunch of
      specialized categories under several of the knowledge skills, like
      Arcana, is broken down into each of the schools, and Nature is broke
      down into Anatomy, Biology etc. Well each of the sub classes give a
      synergy bonus to a the parent skill. The way the synergy tag is
      written I can never give a synergy bonus to an existing skill, like
      Know(Arcana) with out either copying the parent, or making a MOD to
      it, right? Shouldn't the tag be written so that you add it to the
      skill that "gives" the synergy bonus instead of the one that
      "receives" it, that would make it easier to create custom synergy
      bonuses.

      Paul "Yes that Paul" Grosse
      PCGen OGL Gibbon
      ICQ: 14397299
      AO: Nylan
      Various forums: Nylan (or Nylanfs)

      "The Earth is just too small and fragile a basket for the human race
      to keep all it's eggs in." - Robert Heinlein
    • Paul Grosse
      Which brings up a question, can I copy a skill and name it blah.MOD to MOD it or can MOD s only be created outside of the prog?
      Message 2 of 17 , May 1, 2003
        Which brings up a question, can I copy a skill and name it blah.MOD to
        MOD it or can MOD's only be created outside of the prog?

        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: Paul Grosse [mailto:pgrosse@...]
        > Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 11:50 AM
        > To: Pcgen (E-mail)
        > Subject: LST Editor: Skills
        >
        >
        > Okay, the synergy tab threw me for a loop till I figured that
        > it's actually backwards from what I was thinking. My DM has a
        > bunch of specialized categories under several of the
        > knowledge skills, like Arcana, is broken down into each of
        > the schools, and Nature is broke down into Anatomy, Biology
        > etc. Well each of the sub classes give a synergy bonus to a
        > the parent skill. The way the synergy tag is written I can
        > never give a synergy bonus to an existing skill, like
        > Know(Arcana) with out either copying the parent, or making a
        > MOD to it, right? Shouldn't the tag be written so that you
        > add it to the skill that "gives" the synergy bonus instead of
        > the one that "receives" it, that would make it easier to
        > create custom synergy bonuses.
        >
        > Paul "Yes that Paul" Grosse
        > PCGen OGL Gibbon
        > ICQ: 14397299
        > AO: Nylan
        > Various forums: Nylan (or Nylanfs)
        >
        > "The Earth is just too small and fragile a basket for the
        > human race to keep all it's eggs in." - Robert Heinlein
        >
      • merton_monk
        ... to ... It would be better to create a new skill and name it blah.MOD. Yes, you can do that in the lst editor and it would work just like you did it
        Message 3 of 17 , May 1, 2003
          --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Grosse" <pgrosse@m...> wrote:
          > Which brings up a question, can I copy a skill and name it blah.MOD
          to
          > MOD it or can MOD's only be created outside of the prog?

          It would be better to create a new skill and name it blah.MOD. Yes,
          you can do that in the lst editor and it would work just like you did
          it yourself. I have MODed Wizard just like that myself. :)

          -Bryan

          >
          > > -----Original Message-----
          > > From: Paul Grosse [mailto:pgrosse@m...]
          > > Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 11:50 AM
          > > To: Pcgen (E-mail)
          > > Subject: LST Editor: Skills
          > >
          > >
          > > Okay, the synergy tab threw me for a loop till I figured that
          > > it's actually backwards from what I was thinking. My DM has a
          > > bunch of specialized categories under several of the
          > > knowledge skills, like Arcana, is broken down into each of
          > > the schools, and Nature is broke down into Anatomy, Biology
          > > etc. Well each of the sub classes give a synergy bonus to a
          > > the parent skill. The way the synergy tag is written I can
          > > never give a synergy bonus to an existing skill, like
          > > Know(Arcana) with out either copying the parent, or making a
          > > MOD to it, right? Shouldn't the tag be written so that you
          > > add it to the skill that "gives" the synergy bonus instead of
          > > the one that "receives" it, that would make it easier to
          > > create custom synergy bonuses.
          > >
          > > Paul "Yes that Paul" Grosse
          > > PCGen OGL Gibbon
          > > ICQ: 14397299
          > > AO: Nylan
          > > Various forums: Nylan (or Nylanfs)
          > >
          > > "The Earth is just too small and fragile a basket for the
          > > human race to keep all it's eggs in." - Robert Heinlein
          > >
        • Keith Davies
          ... well, except that it s the target skill that documents the synergy bonus. What I d like to see is either breaking synergy bonuses out of the skills
          Message 4 of 17 , May 1, 2003
            On Thu, May 01, 2003 at 11:50:19AM -0500, Paul Grosse wrote:
            > Okay, the synergy tab threw me for a loop till I figured that it's
            > actually backwards from what I was thinking. My DM has a bunch of
            > specialized categories under several of the knowledge skills, like
            > Arcana, is broken down into each of the schools, and Nature is broke
            > down into Anatomy, Biology etc. Well each of the sub classes give a
            > synergy bonus to a the parent skill. The way the synergy tag is
            > written I can never give a synergy bonus to an existing skill, like
            > Know(Arcana) with out either copying the parent, or making a MOD to
            > it, right? Shouldn't the tag be written so that you add it to the
            > skill that "gives" the synergy bonus instead of the one that
            > "receives" it, that would make it easier to create custom synergy
            > bonuses.

            well, except that it's the 'target skill' that documents the synergy
            bonus.

            What I'd like to see is either breaking synergy bonuses out of the
            skills entirely, as in (greatly abbreviated XML below):

            <skill id="skill.heal" />
            <skill id="skill.herbalism" />

            <synergy target="skill.heal" source="skill.herbalism" />
            <!-- or -->
            <bonus target="skill.heal" source="skill.herbalism" type="synergy" />

            Or, like one person suggested, allow it to be defined in either place
            (to put it in context, IIRC he was talking about assignment of spells to
            class spell lists); you'd end up with:

            <skill id="skill.heal">
            <bonus type="synergy">
            <preskill refid="skill.herbalism" min="5" />
            </bonus>
            </skill>

            <!-- or -->

            <skill id="skill.herbalism">
            <bonus refid="skill.heal" type="synergy">
            <preskill refid="skill.herbalism" min="5" />
            </bonus>
            </skill>

            I'm not satisfied with the latter examples, though. Not only the syntax
            not as elegant as I like, but I don't like being able to define things
            in more than one place. I like simple; if you can define it only in one
            place or one way, it limits the ways things can go wrong.


            Keith
            --
            Keith Davies
            keith.davies@...

            PCGen: <reaper/>, smartass
            "You just can't argue with a moron. It's like handling Nuclear
            waste. It's not good, it's not evil, but for Christ's sake, don't
            get any on you!!" -- Chuck, PCGen mailing list
          • Paul Grosse
            ... Also note that editing the actual LST file and writing the synergy tag backwards does NOT add a synergy bonus to the parent skill like one would think :(
            Message 5 of 17 , May 1, 2003
              > From: Paul Grosse [mailto:pgrosse@...]
              >
              >
              > Okay, the synergy tab threw me for a loop till I figured that
              > it's actually backwards from what I was thinking. My DM has a
              > bunch of specialized categories under several of the
              > knowledge skills, like Arcana, is broken down into each of
              > the schools, and Nature is broke down into Anatomy, Biology
              > etc. Well each of the sub classes give a synergy bonus to a
              > the parent skill. The way the synergy tag is written I can
              > never give a synergy bonus to an existing skill, like
              > Know(Arcana) with out either copying the parent, or making a
              > MOD to it, right? Shouldn't the tag be written so that you
              > add it to the skill that "gives" the synergy bonus instead of
              > the one that "receives" it, that would make it easier to
              > create custom synergy bonuses.
              >
              > Paul "Yes that Paul" Grosse
              > PCGen OGL Gibbon

              Also note that editing the actual LST file and writing the synergy tag
              backwards does NOT add a synergy bonus to the parent skill like one
              would think :(
            • Tir Gwaith
              ... Huh? In either Skill.... BONUS:SKILL| | |TYPE=Synergy.STACK|PRESKILL:1,
              Message 6 of 17 , May 1, 2003
                > > it, right? Shouldn't the tag be written so that you add it to the
                > > skill that "gives" the synergy bonus instead of the one that
                > > "receives" it, that would make it easier to create custom synergy
                > > bonuses.
                >
                > well, except that it's the 'target skill' that documents the synergy
                > bonus.

                Huh? In either Skill....

                BONUS:SKILL|<name of skill to get teh bonus>|<synergy
                bonus>|TYPE=Synergy.STACK|PRESKILL:1,<name of skill that required ranks
                grant the bonus>=<number of ranks required>

                will work. So I can put
                BONUS:SKILL|MyFirstSkill|2|TYPE=Synergy.STACK|PRESKILL:1,MySecondSkill=5
                In EITHER skill, and it will grant the bonus to MyFirstSkill, so long as I
                have 5 ranks in MySecondSkill.

                Heck, you could move them all to a template if you wanted, that way you
                could easily turn the Synergy bonuses on or off.....

                Tir Gwaith
                PCGen BoD
                Data Silverback
              • Paul Grosse
                ... Huh? In either Skill.... BONUS:SKILL| | |TYPE=Synergy.STACK|PRESKILL:1,
                Message 7 of 17 , May 1, 2003
                  <snip>
                  > > it, right? Shouldn't the tag be written so that you add it to the
                  > > skill that "gives" the synergy bonus instead of the one that
                  > > "receives" it, that would make it easier to create custom synergy
                  > > bonuses.
                  >
                  > well, except that it's the 'target skill' that documents the synergy
                  > bonus.

                  Huh? In either Skill....

                  BONUS:SKILL|<name of skill to get teh bonus>|<synergy
                  bonus>|TYPE=Synergy.STACK|PRESKILL:1,<name of skill that required
                  ranks
                  grant the bonus>=<number of ranks required>

                  will work. So I can put
                  BONUS:SKILL|MyFirstSkill|2|TYPE=Synergy.STACK|PRESKILL:1,MySecondSkill
                  =5
                  In EITHER skill, and it will grant the bonus to MyFirstSkill, so long
                  as I
                  have 5 ranks in MySecondSkill.

                  Heck, you could move them all to a template if you wanted, that way
                  you
                  could easily turn the Synergy bonuses on or off.....

                  Tir Gwaith
                  PCGen BoD
                  Data Silverback
                  </snip>

                  I tried that Tir, it didn't work for me. Hmm, maybe I have a
                  misspelled word somewhere throwing it off

                  <start of skill line>
                  Knowledge (Arcana: Arcane Magic)<tab>
                  KEYSTAT:INT<tab>
                  USEUNTRAINED:NO<tab>
                  BONUS:SKILL|Knowledge (Arcana)|2|PRESKILL:1,Knowledge (Arcane
                  Magic)=5|TYPE=Synergy.STACK<tab>
                  TYPE:INTELLIGENCE.KNOWLEDGE.CUSTOM<tab>
                  SOURCEPAGE:DPHB, v1.17
                  </Skill line>

                  Doh! I see my error the 2nd skill is wrong, although does the TYPE
                  have to be in the middle? The LST editor puts it at the end of the
                  BONUS tag.
                • Keith Davies
                  ... Ah, okay. I d only seen it in the target skill and it didn t leap out of the doco at me. Keith -- Keith Davies keith.davies@kjdavies.org PCGen: ,
                  Message 8 of 17 , May 1, 2003
                    On Thu, May 01, 2003 at 01:42:28PM -0500, Tir Gwaith wrote:
                    > > > it, right? Shouldn't the tag be written so that you add it to the
                    > > > skill that "gives" the synergy bonus instead of the one that
                    > > > "receives" it, that would make it easier to create custom synergy
                    > > > bonuses.
                    > >
                    > > well, except that it's the 'target skill' that documents the synergy
                    > > bonus.
                    >
                    > Huh? In either Skill....
                    >
                    > BONUS:SKILL|<name of skill to get teh bonus>|<synergy
                    > bonus>|TYPE=Synergy.STACK|PRESKILL:1,<name of skill that required ranks
                    > grant the bonus>=<number of ranks required>
                    >
                    > will work. So I can put
                    > BONUS:SKILL|MyFirstSkill|2|TYPE=Synergy.STACK|PRESKILL:1,MySecondSkill=5
                    > In EITHER skill, and it will grant the bonus to MyFirstSkill, so long as I
                    > have 5 ranks in MySecondSkill.

                    Ah, okay. I'd only seen it in the target skill and it didn't leap out
                    of the doco at me.


                    Keith
                    --
                    Keith Davies
                    keith.davies@...

                    PCGen: <reaper/>, smartass
                    "You just can't argue with a moron. It's like handling Nuclear
                    waste. It's not good, it's not evil, but for Christ's sake, don't
                    get any on you!!" -- Chuck, PCGen mailing list
                  • Daniel Fenwick
                    I think this is a simple question. My DM has given everyone in the party who was present for a specific adventure two ranks in a particular skill. How do I
                    Message 9 of 17 , May 1, 2003
                      I think this is a simple question. My DM has given everyone in the party
                      who was present for a specific adventure two ranks in a particular skill.
                      How do I add this to the characters?

                      Thanks.

                      Dan
                    • Tommy Williams
                      Easiest way would be to manually add 2 points to your skill points at the bottom of the skills tab. Then just add the skill as you normally would, unless its a
                      Message 10 of 17 , May 1, 2003
                        Easiest way would be to manually add 2 points to your skill points at the bottom of the skills tab. Then just add the skill as you normally would, unless its a cross class skill for you. In that case, you'll need to add 4 points.
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: Daniel Fenwick
                        To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 3:44 PM
                        Subject: [pcgen] Simple question


                        I think this is a simple question. My DM has given everyone in the party
                        who was present for a specific adventure two ranks in a particular skill.
                        How do I add this to the characters?

                        Thanks.

                        Dan


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                      • Tir Gwaith
                        ... Nope. The different |TYPE= and |PRExxx are interchangeable (the part up to the bonus formula has to be in order tho). You can only have one TYPE=
                        Message 11 of 17 , May 1, 2003
                          > Doh! I see my error the 2nd skill is wrong, although does the TYPE
                          > have to be in the middle? The LST editor puts it at the end of the
                          > BONUS tag.
                          >

                          Nope. The different |TYPE= and |PRExxx are interchangeable (the part up to
                          the bonus formula has to be in order tho). You can only have one TYPE=
                          statement for the bonus, but you can have as many PRExxx statements as you'd
                          like.

                          Tir Gwaith
                          PCGen BoD
                          Data Silverback
                        • merton_monk
                          Or you could create a template that has a +2 in each of the specified skills and apply that to each character. Creating this template in the template Lst
                          Message 12 of 17 , May 1, 2003
                            Or you could create a template that has a +2 in each of the specified
                            skills and apply that to each character. Creating this template in
                            the template Lst Editor shouldn't be hard. Manually upping their
                            ranks in the skills tab works, but may cause problems with regards to
                            Max Ranks. You coul create a Custom item that has a +2 in each of the
                            skills and make sure that everyone equips one (make it a non-slot
                            item, like a gold coin)

                            -Bryan

                            --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Tommy Williams" <aarn_d@h...> wrote:
                            > Easiest way would be to manually add 2 points to your skill points
                            at the bottom of the skills tab. Then just add the skill as you
                            normally would, unless its a cross class skill for you. In that case,
                            you'll need to add 4 points.
                            > ----- Original Message -----
                            > From: Daniel Fenwick
                            > To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                            > Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 3:44 PM
                            > Subject: [pcgen] Simple question
                            >
                            >
                            > I think this is a simple question. My DM has given everyone in
                            the party
                            > who was present for a specific adventure two ranks in a
                            particular skill.
                            > How do I add this to the characters?
                            >
                            > Thanks.
                            >
                            > Dan
                            >
                            >
                            > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                            > PCGen's FAQ: http://pedertest.officeline.no/PCGen
                            > PCGen's alpha build: http://rpg.plambert.net/pcgen
                            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                            > pcgen-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                            Service.
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Daniel Fenwick
                            Thanks for the suggestions. :) Dan
                            Message 13 of 17 , May 1, 2003
                              Thanks for the suggestions. :)

                              Dan
                            • Luc Holland
                              Where do I find how PC Gen handles levels for characters? Is it modifiable? TIA, Luc
                              Message 14 of 17 , May 1, 2003
                                Where do I find how PC Gen handles levels for characters? Is it modifiable?

                                TIA,
                                Luc
                              • merton_monk
                                ... modifiable? Very modifiable. What about the levels did you want to modify, and for which class(es)? -Bryan
                                Message 15 of 17 , May 1, 2003
                                  --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Luc Holland <holland@c...> wrote:
                                  > Where do I find how PC Gen handles levels for characters? Is it
                                  modifiable?

                                  Very modifiable. What about the levels did you want to modify, and
                                  for which class(es)?

                                  -Bryan

                                  >
                                  > TIA,
                                  > Luc
                                • Luc Holland
                                  I was wondering (pre-ELH inclusion) how I could get levels 21-24 (or higher) available for any class, but specifically cleric for 3ed. What files do I need to
                                  Message 16 of 17 , May 3, 2003
                                    I was wondering (pre-ELH inclusion) how I could get levels 21-24 (or higher)
                                    available for any class, but specifically cleric for 3ed. What files do I
                                    need to look at? I looked at most files and found
                                    PCGen\system\gameModes\DnD\level.lst but in PCGen it won't allow me to add a
                                    level past 20 in a class.

                                    Luc

                                    > -----Original Message-----
                                    > From: merton_monk
                                    > Subject: [pcgen] Re: XP tables in PCGen
                                    >
                                    > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Luc Holland <holland@c...> wrote:
                                    > > Where do I find how PC Gen handles levels for characters? Is it
                                    > modifiable?
                                    >
                                    > Very modifiable. What about the levels did you want to modify, and
                                    > for which class(es)?
                                    >
                                    > -Bryan
                                    >
                                    > >
                                    > > TIA,
                                    > > Luc
                                  • Tommy Williams
                                    To go past level 20, you have to check the ignore level caps or somesuch in the house rules section of the options. Unfortunately this will continue the
                                    Message 17 of 17 , May 5, 2003
                                      To go past level 20, you have to check the "ignore level caps" or somesuch in the house rules section of the options. Unfortunately this will continue the normal BAB and save progression and id NOT ELH compliant.

                                      If you want to code it yourself per ELH rules, send me an email off-list and I'll be glad to help you.
                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: Luc Holland
                                      To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2003 12:53 AM
                                      Subject: RE: [pcgen] Re: XP tables in PCGen


                                      I was wondering (pre-ELH inclusion) how I could get levels 21-24 (or higher)
                                      available for any class, but specifically cleric for 3ed. What files do I
                                      need to look at? I looked at most files and found
                                      PCGen\system\gameModes\DnD\level.lst but in PCGen it won't allow me to add a
                                      level past 20 in a class.

                                      Luc

                                      > -----Original Message-----
                                      > From: merton_monk
                                      > Subject: [pcgen] Re: XP tables in PCGen
                                      >
                                      > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Luc Holland <holland@c...> wrote:
                                      > > Where do I find how PC Gen handles levels for characters? Is it
                                      > modifiable?
                                      >
                                      > Very modifiable. What about the levels did you want to modify, and
                                      > for which class(es)?
                                      >
                                      > -Bryan
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      > > TIA,
                                      > > Luc


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