## Re: [pcgen] [a little ot] encounter ratings

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• ... Bless you! A thousand times, bless you! It s in javascript! I can see the source, so I can see how he does it! Logical steps! Algorithms! Oh, bless you!
Message 1 of 21 , Apr 1, 2003
Phantom of Krankor wrote:
>
>>Got a question for the Seething D20 Masses with a gift for math etc.
>>How do you calculate the Encounter Level of a really mixed encounter?
>
>
> Personally, I use this

Bless you! A thousand times, bless you!

It's in javascript! I can see the source, so I can see how he does it!
Logical steps! Algorithms! Oh, bless you!

*does a little "Hail Greg" dance*

...

Ahem. You know you've been a programmer too long when you have to use a
computer algorithm to judge encounter levels.
--
"Is he an evil outsider?"
"Well, he was one of the loners in evil kindergarten..."
• ... ... Don t know if its official, or not, but here s how ... I belive that that is close to the way you are suppose to award experiance as oppose to
Message 2 of 21 , Apr 1, 2003
--- "Paul W. King" <kingpaul@...> wrote:
...> Don't know if its official, or not, but here's
how
> my groups do it.
>
> If the party defeats the encounter fully, award XP
> party would get by defeating a 2, 3 and 5 level
> encounter.
>
> Paul W. King
> OGL/PL SB and BoD

I belive that that is close to the way you are suppose
to award experiance as oppose to determine encounter
level. Officialy I don't believe you have to defeat
the encounter to get the experiance just encounter it.
The EL is a tool for GM's to use to determine how
much of a challenge a group encounter is. As such it
must be used carefully as the number and power of the
characters for instance can impact the real vs the
calculated EL.

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• ... It *is* official. You shouldn t use EL on the XP rewards chart in the DMG. It s intended to be used only for CR and that implies that you do it for each
Message 3 of 21 , Apr 1, 2003
--- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Paul W. King" <kingpaul@e...> wrote:
> > Example: 4 generic orcs and an orc NPC (3rd level fighter) and an
> > Ogre NPC (3rd level barbarian)
> >
> > A generic orc is CR .5, the orc captain is CR 3, and the ogre thug
> > is CR 5.
>
> Don't know if its official, or not, but here's how my groups do it.
>
> If the party defeats the encounter fully, award XP by adding what the
> party would get by defeating a 2, 3 and 5 level encounter.

It *is* official. You shouldn't use EL on the XP rewards chart in the DMG. It's intended to be used only for CR and that implies that you do it for each challenge (monster, trap, etc.) in the encounter and add the results together. I

wrote a long-ish post on another board on why using EL alone breaks down (I can hunt it down if anyone's curious), but I think a short summary is that using EL breaks down quite badly if you have either low-level PCs or a good number of low-level monsters in the encounter with higher-level PCs.

Always use CR for awarding XP, not EL...

mh - ZansForCans
• ... Where is that rule? Do you have a book and page?
Message 4 of 21 , Apr 1, 2003
> There's a rule no one has mentioned yet that says CRs
> less than 3 are added together until you start getting
> ELs higher than 3.

Where is that rule? Do you have a book and page?
• ... If that s the same one I was using last year, it uses a formula to calculate CR, which periodically came up with some different numbers than the table
Message 5 of 21 , Apr 1, 2003
> > Personally, I use this
>
> Bless you! A thousand times, bless you!
>
> It's in javascript! I can see the source, so I can see how he does it!
> Logical steps! Algorithms! Oh, bless you!

If that's the same one I was using last year, it uses a formula to calculate
CR, which periodically came up with some different numbers than the table
lookup method from the DMG. Close, but not quite identical.

If you want, I've got a spreadsheet that calculates FR type XP (which I use
IMC) based on the tables in the DMG. It wouldn't be too hard to modify it
(or fool it) into doing average party level type XP.
• ... Ah. Err. Well. I just report the news, I don t make it. ... And it s easy to edit, too. I ve modified it to have more rows than come with it. Something
Message 6 of 21 , Apr 1, 2003
> Phantom of Krankor wrote:
> > Personally, I use this
>
> Bless you! A thousand times, bless you!
>
> It's in javascript! I can see the source, so I can see how he does
> it! Logical steps! Algorithms! Oh, bless you!
>
> *does a little "Hail Greg" dance*

Ah. Err. Well. I just report the news, I don't make it.

> Ahem. You know you've been a programmer too long when you have to use
> a computer algorithm to judge encounter levels.

And it's easy to edit, too. I've modified it to have more rows than
come with it. Something about making encounters with 8 different
monsters... >:)

-Greg G

=====
--
RPN, the other Gaming Network

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• ... Hrm... not readily, it s not where I thought it was, but I can verify that WotC modules (like Sunless Citadel) stick to it, by my math.
Message 7 of 21 , Apr 2, 2003
--- Brass Tilde <brasstilde@...> wrote:
> Where is that rule? Do you have a book and page?

Hrm... not readily, it's not where I thought it was,
but I can verify that WotC modules (like Sunless
Citadel) stick to it, by my math.

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• (one little voice from the sidelines meekly speaks up) One note ... Even if what you said is correct, the original question was reguarding Experience which is
Message 8 of 21 , Apr 2, 2003
(one little voice from the sidelines meekly speaks up)
One note ... Even if what you said is correct, the original question was
reguarding Experience which is calculated by individual "monster" CR, NOT by
EL. (DMG page 166, top left corner). The only lines concerning monsters
below CR1 are in the second column:
Speaking of Orsc .... CR 1/2 ...
"For these cases, calculate XP as if the creature were CR 1, then divide the
result by 2"
For 1/3 you would divide by 3, etc.

VR

>
> --- Brass Tilde <brasstilde@...> wrote:
> > Where is that rule? Do you have a book and page?
>
> Hrm... not readily, it's not where I thought it was,
> but I can verify that WotC modules (like Sunless
> Citadel) stick to it, by my math.
• ... DANGER! DANGER WILL ROBINSON! I asked nothing about experience, as I don t use the experience charts. My players go up a level once every five sessions
Message 9 of 21 , Apr 2, 2003
Vance wrote:
> (one little voice from the sidelines meekly speaks up)
> One note ... Even if what you said is correct, the original question was
> reguarding Experience which is calculated by individual "monster" CR, NOT by
> EL. (DMG page 166, top left corner).

DANGER! DANGER WILL ROBINSON!

I asked nothing about experience, as I don't use the experience charts.
My players go up a level once every five sessions (give or take). Yes,
this is over twice as fast as the DMG suggests. It's not Hurting Bad
Fun, however, so I don't care. :)

All I was looking for was how to calculate Encounter Level, which is a
reasonable ball-park figure for how tough a given group of critters is.
I like to start with an 'official' ball-park before I monkey with it for
situational modifiers (like throwing ghouls and ghasts at a party with
no clerics, paladins, and one incompetant elf : +2 CR )
--
"Is he an evil outsider?"
"Well, he was one of the loners in evil kindergarten..."
• ... If you find it, I d be interested. The only thing I ve ever seen is that creatures with a CR below one are combined until they total one. So, four 1/2 CR
Message 10 of 21 , Apr 2, 2003
> --- Brass Tilde <brasstilde@...> wrote:
> > Where is that rule? Do you have a book and page?
>
> Hrm... not readily, it's not where I thought it was,
> but I can verify that WotC modules (like Sunless
> Citadel) stick to it, by my math.

If you find it, I'd be interested. The only thing I've ever seen is that
creatures with a CR below one are combined until they total one. So, four
1/2 CR Orcs would be treated as two CR 1 creatures, and four CR 1/4
creatures would be treated as one CR 1 creature. I *think* this is in the
back of the PHB, in that "mini-DMG" section, but I'll have to check.

I hope you won't feel too badly about me not paying too much attention to
the way a module does it. <g/>
• ... (and walks away with foot in mouth)
Message 11 of 21 , Apr 2, 2003
> > (one little voice from the sidelines meekly speaks up)
(and walks away with foot in mouth)
• ... If I find it I ll let the group know... my roommate s car (which I share with him) was broken into, however, so I ll be a couple days before I have free
Message 12 of 21 , Apr 2, 2003
--- Brass Tilde <brasstilde@...> wrote:
> If you find it, I'd be interested.
> I hope you won't feel too badly about me not paying
> too much attention to the way a module does it.

If I find it I'll let the group know... my roommate's
car (which I share with him) was broken into, however,
so I'll be a couple days before I have free time to
sit down and flip through books.

And if you can show me a man who runs everything by
the book, I'll show you a liar :)

Dusty

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• I run everything by the book! DMG Page 6 You get to decide how the rules work, which rules to use, and how strictly to adhere to them That s me...
Message 13 of 21 , Apr 3, 2003
I run everything by the book!

DMG Page 6
"You get to decide how the rules work, which rules to use, and how strictly