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PCGen/D20/OGL Question

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  • Dekker <dekker500@vif.com>
    I understand that PCGen can not contain any non-OGL/D20 content. No problems with that. But why have all the descriptions of existingn d20 content been
    Message 1 of 15 , Jan 31, 2003
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      I understand that PCGen can not contain any non-OGL/D20 content. No
      problems with that.

      But why have all the descriptions of existingn d20 content been
      stripped? For example, brief spell descriptions, feat descriptions,
      skill descriptions, etc.

      I thought the text of those documents had been released and could be
      used.

      The reason I ask is that whenever I upgrade PCGen (not often), I have
      to re-enter the text descriptions I have made to the spells etc.

      I know, I can have custom versions of the spells etc, but then I lose
      out on any corrections that have been made to the spell lists and
      feats etc.

      Is there any solution to this? And I mean other than waiting for
      PCGen/Wizards to hammer out a deal on non d20 material)

      Dekker500
    • Sussenberger, John
      The best way is to create a MOD file like this: Mage Armor.MOD DESC:This spell adds blah to AC Repeat this for all of the spells you want and since you are
      Message 2 of 15 , Jan 31, 2003
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        The best way is to create a MOD file like this:

        Mage Armor.MOD<tab>DESC:This spell adds blah to AC

        Repeat this for all of the spells you want and since you are just
        changing the DESC tag, the other tags remain untouched. Also when you
        upgrade, you do not have to reenter anything. You will have to create
        your own PCC file but you seem to be pretty familiar with LST files
        already.

        Obviously I am shooting from the hip here, as I have not gotten to MOD
        any spells yet (but its coming soon), so the DESC tag may not be what
        you want. Just replace my changes with yours.

        Let me know if you have any questions.

        John "the self proclaimed MOD monkey"


        -----Original Message-----
        From: Dekker <dekker500@...> [mailto:dekker500@...]
        Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 1:16 PM
        To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [pcgen] PCGen/D20/OGL Question


        I understand that PCGen can not contain any non-OGL/D20 content.
        No
        problems with that.

        But why have all the descriptions of existingn d20 content been
        stripped? For example, brief spell descriptions, feat
        descriptions,
        skill descriptions, etc.

        I thought the text of those documents had been released and
        could be
        used.

        The reason I ask is that whenever I upgrade PCGen (not often), I
        have
        to re-enter the text descriptions I have made to the spells etc.


        I know, I can have custom versions of the spells etc, but then I
        lose
        out on any corrections that have been made to the spell lists
        and
        feats etc.

        Is there any solution to this? And I mean other than waiting
        for
        PCGen/Wizards to hammer out a deal on non d20 material)

        Dekker500


        PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Paul Grosse
        Is there any solution to this? And I mean other than waiting for PCGen/Wizards to hammer out a deal on non d20 material) Dekker500 Yes Dekker,
        Message 3 of 15 , Jan 31, 2003
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          <snip>
          Is there any solution to this? And I mean other than waiting for
          PCGen/Wizards to hammer out a deal on non d20 material)

          Dekker500
          </snip>

          Yes Dekker, I made a .MOD file for every feat/spell that I was
          concerned with so you just change the DESC and the actual mechanics
          never have to be messed with. And incase you ask, No I'm not handing
          it out, but you can do it on your own :)

          Paul Grosse
          MSN Messenger: Nylanfs@...
          ICQ: 14397299
          AO: Nylan
          Various forums: Nylan (or Nylanfs)

          "The Earth is just too small and fragile a basket for the human race
          to keep all it's eggs in." - Robert Heinlein
        • cyberfunkr <cyberfunkr@yahoo.com>
          ... wrote: ... Like other people have/will suggest, make custom .pcc and .lst files to .MOD in the descriptions. I just did
          Message 4 of 15 , Jan 31, 2003
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            --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Dekker <dekker500@v...>"
            <dekker500@v...> wrote:
            <snip>
            > The reason I ask is that whenever I upgrade PCGen (not often), I have
            > to re-enter the text descriptions I have made to the spells etc.
            >
            > I know, I can have custom versions of the spells etc, but then I lose
            > out on any corrections that have been made to the spell lists and
            > feats etc.
            >
            > Is there any solution to this? And I mean other than waiting for
            > PCGen/Wizards to hammer out a deal on non d20 material)
            >
            > Dekker500
            </snip>

            Like other people have/will suggest, make custom .pcc and .lst files
            to .MOD in the descriptions. I just did that very thing yesterday. Or
            at least I did to feats. Spells seem to be a different hack.

            In my 2.7.3 data files (Back off) there is no DESC: tag for spells for
            me to .MOD in. *HOWEVER* I see the TARGETAREA: tag as a good enough
            replacement and it's in the current .lst files.

            So ....
            a) Could Barak and his crew of happy monkeys change the sheets to show
            TARGETAREA: instead of DESC: since it seems silly to have a column of
            'See text'? I'd rather lose the column and make everything a bigger
            font size than reinforce the fact that I need to read the book.

            b) Can someone tell me what the tag is for OS to display TARGETAREA:
            so you can leave the current OS alone? I'm using 4.2.7 zips and the
            included docs do not show that tag.

            c) I break down a write aprogram to parse out the spell list and make
            a .MOD file for me to fill in the blanks later.

            /Cyberfunk
          • Ian Dale <ian_dale@hotmail.com>
            ... So you wouldn t like to see any descriptions of spells? (You can .MOD the spells to have the DESC filled in.) I know the description would be more helpful
            Message 5 of 15 , Jan 31, 2003
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              --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "cyberfunkr <cyberfunkr@y...>"
              <cyberfunkr@y...> wrote:
              > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Dekker <dekker500@v...>"
              > <dekker500@v...> wrote:
              > <snip>
              > > The reason I ask is that whenever I upgrade PCGen (not often), I have
              > > to re-enter the text descriptions I have made to the spells etc.
              > >
              > > I know, I can have custom versions of the spells etc, but then I lose
              > > out on any corrections that have been made to the spell lists and
              > > feats etc.
              > >
              > > Is there any solution to this? And I mean other than waiting for
              > > PCGen/Wizards to hammer out a deal on non d20 material)
              > >
              > > Dekker500
              > </snip>
              >
              > Like other people have/will suggest, make custom .pcc and .lst files
              > to .MOD in the descriptions. I just did that very thing yesterday. Or
              > at least I did to feats. Spells seem to be a different hack.
              >
              > In my 2.7.3 data files (Back off) there is no DESC: tag for spells for
              > me to .MOD in. *HOWEVER* I see the TARGETAREA: tag as a good enough
              > replacement and it's in the current .lst files.
              >
              > So ....
              > a) Could Barak and his crew of happy monkeys change the sheets to show
              > TARGETAREA: instead of DESC: since it seems silly to have a column of
              > 'See text'? I'd rather lose the column and make everything a bigger
              > font size than reinforce the fact that I need to read the book.

              So you wouldn't like to see any descriptions of spells? (You can .MOD
              the spells to have the DESC filled in.) I know the description would
              be more helpful to me than the target/area (though I'd like to see
              both listed). :)

              Don't base what you'd like in the output sheets off what the WotC LST
              files have in them (DESC is NOT a worthless field, even though the
              descriptions were left out to be safe!), but rather the functionality
              you'd like to see, assuming that all fields were filled in. (I believe
              that some of the non-WotC sources do have descriptions filled in.) :)


              > b) Can someone tell me what the tag is for OS to display TARGETAREA:
              > so you can leave the current OS alone? I'm using 4.2.7 zips and the
              > included docs do not show that tag.

              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen/message/56365


              -Ian
              LST Tamarin
            • Tir Gwaith
              ... DESC is not guaranteed to be OGC. So we need permission... If people will check the SRD, you will notice that there is no clear 1 liner description
              Message 6 of 15 , Jan 31, 2003
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                > So ....
                > a) Could Barak and his crew of happy monkeys change the sheets to show
                > TARGETAREA: instead of DESC: since it seems silly to have a column of
                > 'See text'? I'd rather lose the column and make everything a bigger
                > font size than reinforce the fact that I need to read the book.

                DESC is not guaranteed to be OGC. So we need permission... If people will
                check the SRD, you will notice that there is no clear '1 liner' description
                listed in it. Hence the See text in the spells and Feats DESC. Other
                sources will have valid DESC entries as soon as the LST crew gets to them.

                > b) Can someone tell me what the tag is for OS to display TARGETAREA:
                > so you can leave the current OS alone? I'm using 4.2.7 zips and the
                > included docs do not show that tag.

                Barak says that the TARGETAREA is displayed on the sheets. If you need more
                clarification, I'll leave that to him.

                > c) I break down a write aprogram to parse out the spell list and make
                > a .MOD file for me to fill in the blanks later.

                You can do that for your personal stuff.

                Tir Gwaith
                PCGen Team
                Data Silverback
              • Barak
                ... From: Tir Gwaith ... Ok, which sheets are we talking about? The PDF spell list? ... more ... That depends on what token
                Message 7 of 15 , Jan 31, 2003
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                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Tir Gwaith" <thoron-tir-gwaith@...>


                  > > So ....
                  > > a) Could Barak and his crew of happy monkeys change the sheets to show
                  > > TARGETAREA: instead of DESC: since it seems silly to have a column of
                  > > 'See text'? I'd rather lose the column and make everything a bigger
                  > > font size than reinforce the fact that I need to read the book.

                  Ok, which sheets are we talking about? The PDF spell list?

                  > Barak says that the TARGETAREA is displayed on the sheets. If you need
                  more
                  > clarification, I'll leave that to him.

                  That depends on what token it's mapped to... I thought there was talk of
                  mapping the new tags to the old tokens, but I'd have ot browse my old mail
                  (at home) to find out.

                  Looking at a copy of the _std.html that I happen to have here at work, it
                  uses:

                  NAME, SCHOOL, EFFECT, RANGE, CASTING TIME, DURATION, COMPONENT, SAVEINFO, SR,
                  SOURCEPAGE

                  So, I guess I was mistaken when I was chatting with Tir. :)


                  Barak
                  - PCGen OS Silverback
                  - PCGen LST Gibbon
                • Dekker <dekker500@vif.com>
                  OK, I think I have it now. Thank you everyone I ll update my database to export to the new format, and all should be swell! Wouldn t have been so bad if the
                  Message 8 of 15 , Jan 31, 2003
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                    OK, I think I have it now. Thank you everyone

                    I'll update my database to export to the new format, and all should
                    be swell!

                    Wouldn't have been so bad if the 'format' of the LST files didn't
                    keep changing <grin> If they remained the same, a DIFF would find
                    the updates easily enough!

                    Dekker500

                    --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "cyberfunkr <cyberfunkr@y...>"
                    <cyberfunkr@y...> wrote:
                    > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Dekker <dekker500@v...>"
                    > <dekker500@v...> wrote:
                    > <snip>
                    > > The reason I ask is that whenever I upgrade PCGen (not often), I
                    have
                    > > to re-enter the text descriptions I have made to the spells etc.
                    > >
                    > > I know, I can have custom versions of the spells etc, but then I
                    lose
                    > > out on any corrections that have been made to the spell lists and
                    > > feats etc.
                    > >
                    > > Is there any solution to this? And I mean other than waiting for
                    > > PCGen/Wizards to hammer out a deal on non d20 material)
                    > >
                    > > Dekker500
                    > </snip>
                    >
                    > Like other people have/will suggest, make custom .pcc and .lst files
                    > to .MOD in the descriptions. I just did that very thing yesterday.
                    Or
                    > at least I did to feats. Spells seem to be a different hack.
                    >
                    > In my 2.7.3 data files (Back off) there is no DESC: tag for spells
                    for
                    > me to .MOD in. *HOWEVER* I see the TARGETAREA: tag as a good enough
                    > replacement and it's in the current .lst files.
                    >
                    > So ....
                    > a) Could Barak and his crew of happy monkeys change the sheets to
                    show
                    > TARGETAREA: instead of DESC: since it seems silly to have a column
                    of
                    > 'See text'? I'd rather lose the column and make everything a bigger
                    > font size than reinforce the fact that I need to read the book.
                    >
                    > b) Can someone tell me what the tag is for OS to display TARGETAREA:
                    > so you can leave the current OS alone? I'm using 4.2.7 zips and the
                    > included docs do not show that tag.
                    >
                    > c) I break down a write aprogram to parse out the spell list and
                    make
                    > a .MOD file for me to fill in the blanks later.
                    >
                    > /Cyberfunk
                  • Dekker <dekker500@vif.com>
                    For me, the token it maps to doesn t matter. I m writing my own output sheets so I have control over that. The MOD should work for the problem I was having
                    Message 9 of 15 , Jan 31, 2003
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                      For me, the token it maps to doesn't matter. I'm writing my own
                      output sheets so I have control over that. The MOD should work for
                      the problem I was having (persistance of custom modification to
                      standard spell entries)

                      Dekker500

                      --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Barak" <barak@v...> wrote:
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: "Tir Gwaith" <thoron-tir-gwaith@l...>
                      >
                      >
                      > > > So ....
                      > > > a) Could Barak and his crew of happy monkeys change the sheets
                      to show
                      > > > TARGETAREA: instead of DESC: since it seems silly to have a
                      column of
                      > > > 'See text'? I'd rather lose the column and make everything a
                      bigger
                      > > > font size than reinforce the fact that I need to read the book.
                      >
                      > Ok, which sheets are we talking about? The PDF spell list?
                      >
                      > > Barak says that the TARGETAREA is displayed on the sheets. If
                      you need
                      > more
                      > > clarification, I'll leave that to him.
                      >
                      > That depends on what token it's mapped to... I thought there was
                      talk of
                      > mapping the new tags to the old tokens, but I'd have ot browse my
                      old mail
                      > (at home) to find out.
                      >
                      > Looking at a copy of the _std.html that I happen to have here at
                      work, it
                      > uses:
                      >
                      > NAME, SCHOOL, EFFECT, RANGE, CASTING TIME, DURATION, COMPONENT,
                      SAVEINFO, SR,
                      > SOURCEPAGE
                      >
                      > So, I guess I was mistaken when I was chatting with Tir. :)
                      >
                      >
                      > Barak
                      > - PCGen OS Silverback
                      > - PCGen LST Gibbon
                    • taluroniscandar <mhgj@excite.com>
                      ... to show ... column of ... need ... old mail ... work, it ... SAVEINFO, SR, ... I thought TARGETAREA was one of the fields that was deprecated/relabeled.
                      Message 10 of 15 , Jan 31, 2003
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                        --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Barak" <barak@v...> wrote:
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: "Tir Gwaith" <thoron-tir-gwaith@l...>
                        >
                        >
                        > > > So ....
                        > > > a) Could Barak and his crew of happy monkeys change the sheets
                        to show
                        > > > TARGETAREA: instead of DESC: since it seems silly to have a
                        column of
                        > > > 'See text'? I'd rather lose the column and make everything a bigger
                        > > > font size than reinforce the fact that I need to read the book.
                        >
                        > Ok, which sheets are we talking about? The PDF spell list?
                        >
                        > > Barak says that the TARGETAREA is displayed on the sheets. If you
                        need
                        > more
                        > > clarification, I'll leave that to him.
                        >
                        > That depends on what token it's mapped to... I thought there was talk of
                        > mapping the new tags to the old tokens, but I'd have ot browse my
                        old mail
                        > (at home) to find out.
                        >
                        > Looking at a copy of the _std.html that I happen to have here at
                        work, it
                        > uses:
                        >
                        > NAME, SCHOOL, EFFECT, RANGE, CASTING TIME, DURATION, COMPONENT,
                        SAVEINFO, SR,
                        > SOURCEPAGE
                        >
                        > So, I guess I was mistaken when I was chatting with Tir. :)
                        >
                        I thought TARGETAREA was one of the fields that was
                        deprecated/relabeled. When you convert older files doesn't it change
                        that to, um, EFFECTS maybe. I remember a problem 3-4 weeks ago where
                        the lst converter wasn't changing two old labels and I think
                        TARGETAREA was one of them.
                      • Ian Dale <ian_dale@hotmail.com>
                        ... TARGETAREA is the NEW tag. :) (Replaces EFFECTS or some such tag. Don t recall its exact name.) -Ian LST Tamarin
                        Message 11 of 15 , Jan 31, 2003
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                          --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "taluroniscandar <mhgj@e...>"
                          <mhgj@e...> wrote:
                          > I thought TARGETAREA was one of the fields that was
                          > deprecated/relabeled. When you convert older files doesn't it change
                          > that to, um, EFFECTS maybe. I remember a problem 3-4 weeks ago where
                          > the lst converter wasn't changing two old labels and I think
                          > TARGETAREA was one of them.

                          TARGETAREA is the NEW tag. :) (Replaces EFFECTS or some such tag.
                          Don't recall its exact name.)

                          -Ian
                          LST Tamarin
                        • taluroniscandar <mhgj@excite.com>
                          ... Ohhh, okay.
                          Message 12 of 15 , Jan 31, 2003
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                            --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Ian Dale <ian_dale@h...>"
                            <ian_dale@h...> wrote:
                            > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "taluroniscandar <mhgj@e...>"
                            > <mhgj@e...> wrote:
                            > > I thought TARGETAREA was one of the fields that was
                            > > deprecated/relabeled. When you convert older files doesn't it change
                            > > that to, um, EFFECTS maybe. I remember a problem 3-4 weeks ago where
                            > > the lst converter wasn't changing two old labels and I think
                            > > TARGETAREA was one of them.
                            >
                            > TARGETAREA is the NEW tag. :) (Replaces EFFECTS or some such tag.
                            > Don't recall its exact name.)

                            Ohhh, okay.
                          • cyberfunkr <cyberfunkr@yahoo.com>
                            ... people will ... description ... them. ... need more ... Just double checked my output sheet (_std.fo) Name, School, Effect (Which displays See text ),
                            Message 13 of 15 , Jan 31, 2003
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                              --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Tir Gwaith" <thoron-tir-gwaith@l...> wrote:
                              > > So ....
                              > > a) Could Barak and his crew of happy monkeys change the sheets to show
                              > > TARGETAREA: instead of DESC: since it seems silly to have a column of
                              > > 'See text'? I'd rather lose the column and make everything a bigger
                              > > font size than reinforce the fact that I need to read the book.
                              >
                              > DESC is not guaranteed to be OGC. So we need permission... If
                              people will
                              > check the SRD, you will notice that there is no clear '1 liner'
                              description
                              > listed in it. Hence the See text in the spells and Feats DESC. Other
                              > sources will have valid DESC entries as soon as the LST crew gets to
                              them.
                              >
                              > > b) Can someone tell me what the tag is for OS to display TARGETAREA:
                              > > so you can leave the current OS alone? I'm using 4.2.7 zips and the
                              > > included docs do not show that tag.
                              >
                              > Barak says that the TARGETAREA is displayed on the sheets. If you
                              need more
                              > clarification, I'll leave that to him.
                              >
                              > Tir Gwaith
                              > PCGen Team
                              > Data Silverback

                              Just double checked my output sheet (_std.fo)
                              Name, School, Effect (Which displays "See text"), Range, Time,
                              Duration, Comp. Saving Throw, SR, Source.

                              No TARGETAREA.

                              SO:
                              Seeing as how there will be sources that will have DESCriptions, it
                              would be bad to change the Sheets to not have that field, AND since
                              the SRD does not have a clear-cut DESCription we can use, AND we won't
                              be able to use the actual PHB text until we get permission...

                              Can PCGen include (and/or optionally host on Yahoo) a .lst that is
                              nothing but .MOD the DESC field for spell to be the same as what is
                              input as the TARGETAREA tag? I already made one for myself, and I
                              doubt it would break any OGL/OGC/d20/SRD/WotC rules to have it
                              available to anyone else.

                              If you want/allow I'll upload my .lst file.

                              /Cyberfunkr
                            • elves_are_mortal <elves_are_mortal@yahoo
                              ... MOD ... what ... Hi. I believe this does what he wants (if I m understanding correctly). I m currently working on MOD files for ALL of the SRD spells.
                              Message 14 of 15 , Jan 31, 2003
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                                > Obviously I am shooting from the hip here, as I have not gotten to
                                MOD
                                > any spells yet (but its coming soon), so the DESC tag may not be
                                what
                                > you want. Just replace my changes with yours.



                                Hi.

                                I believe this does what he wants (if I'm understanding correctly).
                                I'm currently working on MOD files for ALL of the SRD spells.
                                *sigh* I'm done with the D's. . . Long, long work. I really
                                appreciate the original data entry folks who entered this into PCGen
                                before it was removed. I'm just copying and pasting, and it is
                                *still* taking forever.


                                /Mortal_Elf/
                                Don't ask. No files for you!
                              • elves_are_mortal <elves_are_mortal@yahoo
                                ... wrote: *snip* ... Why not just change the output sheet to display the DESC: and TARGETAREA: tag outputs. The ability to do so is there
                                Message 15 of 15 , Jan 31, 2003
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                                  --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "cyberfunkr <cyberfunkr@y...>"
                                  <cyberfunkr@y...> wrote:

                                  *snip*

                                  > Can PCGen include (and/or optionally host on Yahoo) a .lst that is
                                  > nothing but .MOD the DESC field for spell to be the same as what is
                                  > input as the TARGETAREA tag? I already made one for myself, and I
                                  > doubt it would break any OGL/OGC/d20/SRD/WotC rules to have it
                                  > available to anyone else.
                                  >
                                  > If you want/allow I'll upload my .lst file.
                                  >
                                  > /Cyberfunkr


                                  Why not just change the output sheet to display the DESC: and
                                  TARGETAREA: tag outputs. The ability to do so is there (thanks,
                                  guys!), and it works, so. . . no need to go through all the trouble
                                  of making a MODing file.


                                  /Mortal_Elf/
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