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RE: [pcgen] Re: The Problems with PCGen and Solutions?

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  • Damian
    Lots of stuff below. v Cleverly Disguised As A Responsible Adult, Erin ... From: mocha@mcs.net [mailto:mocha@mcs.net] Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 9:52 AM
    Message 1 of 26 , Jun 4, 2001
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      Lots of stuff below.
       

      v     Cleverly Disguised As A Responsible Adult,

      Erin

      -----Original Message-----
      From: mocha@... [mailto:mocha@...]
      Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 9:52 AM
      To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [pcgen] Re: The Problems with PCGen and Solutions?

      --- In pcgen@y..., "Chris Wachal" <cwachal@h...> wrote:
      > Since PCGen was being partially rewritten anyways, I figured that I
      > would give a couple suggestions on features that would make PCGen
      the
      > best program it can be.

      Hey - I'm always open to ideas! :)

      >
      > I finally convinced a programmer friend of mine to try PCGen to
      > generate characters, he liked the Master Tools demo for that.  He
      > thinks that this program has so much potential but there are a
      couple
      > things that need to be changed.  He says they would be fairly easy
      to
      > repair and said he might be willing to help should you have
      questions
      > as to how to implement these features.  What we see as a couple
      major
      > flaws of the program that are limiting its effectiveness are as
      > follows:
      >
      > 1. Feats need to have a screen set up to drag "available feats"
      over
      > to a "chosen feats" section.  This will allow you to take any feats
      > more than once, unlike the current system.  Each feat will need a
      > descriptor for whether or not it allows mulitple or not.
      >
      > It also allows you to easily see which feats you currently have as
      > well as easily take things like "Weapon Focus: longsword"
      and "Weapon
      > Focus: short sword".

      The feats tab looks very different - most tabs (feats included) are
      dominated by a table displaying all the relevant info.  For feats
      this means whether or not you qualify for it, it's name, how you have
      it (virtual, no, yes), any pre-requisites, it's description and
      source file.  The options (virtual, yes, no) is actually a button,
      and by clicking on the button you're selecting/de-selecting the feat
      (any choices related to it are then presented).  You can sort by any
      column in the table (same for all tables in PCGen except for the
      stats table) and you can even filter out which feats are displayed. 
      Our API will be open, so your friend would be able to construct his
      own interface if he wanted to.  A largely drag-and-drop type
      interface would certainly be a good choice, but I like the amount of
      info you can provide in a table.  It also gives you more sorting
      options than you'd have in a drag-n-drop solution. Just comes down to
      preferences. 
       
      I like the table method too.  I want LOTS of info in my generator.  that's part of the problem i had with the one that came with the Players Handbook. 

      >
      > 2. You need to be able to sort the equipment by all the
      categories. 
      > As well, a system like the feats above where you drag items into
      your
      > inventory.  Items could either be set as multiple or not.  Multiple
      > items would allow you to buy more than one of something at once as
      be
      > listed as "7 days rations", whereas some items could only be bought
      > one at a time, so you could drag "Short Sword" over to your
      inventory
      > and have one.  If you wanted a second one for your offhand, you
      could
      > drag another "Short Sword" over, each one would be listed as
      > different items.
      >
      > You would need a button called add or something so you could select
      a
      > multiple item in your inventory and add 1 to it.  So you would drag
      > over "Days of Iron Rations" and it would automatically assign 1 to
      > it, then you could click on it and add more, so you could put it up
      > to 7.  This would also enable you to make "groups" of items.  For
      > instance, in this same situation, after taking 7 days of rations,
      you
      > could drag another "days of iron rations" over, it would auto
      assign
      > 1 to that one, and then you could add 6 more to it, and therefore
      > have 2 "groups" of 7 days iron rations.  This would make it easier
      to
      > marks weeks of rations for instance off your character sheet.
      >
      > This system would enable you to actually equip one short sword in
      > each hand.  It could be done by making your equipment into an array.

      All tables (minus one) will be sortable by every column, so that
      request is already handled.:)  I have big plans on how to change the
      equipping functionality, but we just didn't have time to get that in
      this initial release.  The way I want to handle it is via a drag-n-
      drop type interface which is very intuitive - I also plan on handling
      putting stuff in containers all in the same interface... so we'll get
      there, just not in 2.0.0 (maybe 2.0.1, but we'll see...) :) 

      >
      > 3. We need to have a similar system as the items for the skills. 
      > Drag a skill over when you take it, it would set the skill at 1.0
      or
      > 0.5 if it is cross class.  It would also ask you for the
      > specialization when you first move it over.  For instance, if you
      > drag "History" over, it would come up with a list of choices for
      > specialization like "local" or "The Dales" or "Waterdeep" or
      > something.

      I take it you like drag-n-drop? :)  My preference is definitely on
      the table side.  Technically everyone has all skills (except
      exclusive ones) because ranks are really just modifiers, whereas drag-
      n-drop would indicate that you don't have the skill at all unless you
      allocate at least one skill-point to it.  I like the table
      presentation because I can display in one column your total,
      modifiers, ranks and whatnot and you can sort on any of them.  You
      can also use a filter to filter on just class-skills, cross-class
      skills, exclusive or untrained. I think you'll like it. :) 
       
      Are we going to have pop up text fields for nonstandard specializations?  Stuff that's not in the books? 

      >
      > 4. The amount of gold you have left after you purchase your
      equipment
      > should print somewhere on the character sheets, it doesn't yet. 
      You
      > have to manually enter it into the money section

      As ROG mentioned - this is a charactersheet issue.  The GOLD token
      does this, but the wealth issue is about to get a face-lift
      afterwhich time ROG will add those tokens to his charactersheet.

      >
      > 5. I would like to request the ability to add a bonus to all skills
      > based off of one attribute like "+2 to all charisma based skills". 
      I
      > don't know if you can already do this, however, right now the
      circlet
      > of persuasion is listed as +2 to charisma instead of +2 to all
      > charisma based skills.

      Ah - then it should really be +4 to charisma to give a +2 mod. 
       
      well, +4 to Charisma for purposes of skills.

      >
      > When I say "drag" in these examples, I believe something like the
      > current spell system, where you click on something then click a
      > button to add it would work too.

      Our drag-n-drop method for equipping, when completed, will look a lot
      like a file brower. You'll see objects displayed in a hierarchy, with
      containers displayed like a directory.  In java this is called a
      JTree - so you can actually click on the object and drag it over the
      container you want to put it in.
       
      Going the rout of the old Core Rules stuff, eh?  cool, i liked how that worked, and is what i was going to suggest anyway (or did suggest, my minds a little glitchy right now).  Don't forget to allow containers within containers, and you COULD give them a HOME container, for stuff they want to HAVE, but don't carry with them.

      >
      > I believe this system would require more information to be stored
      in
      > the character save files themselves.  If you are already storing
      more
      > information in the character sheets, would it be possible to store
      > information like the stats on all your weapons, spells, abilities
      of
      > your current levels of classes, etc. on your character save file so
      > you could load it in any copy of PCGen without that copy having the
      > appropriate lst files so you could still view your character and
      > create character sheets, but you wouldn't be able to increase your
      > level in any class that you didn't have the lst files for.
      >
      > I understand that some of it would be a lot of work, however, right
      > now as it stands, you cannot take multiple toughness feats, or
      equip
      > 2 of the same weapons.  As well, taking equipment is very difficult
      > right now, at the very least, this needs an "Add" button, so you
      > could select an item and then click the add button to add 1.
      >
      > I hope this helps slightly, you know I've been around a while
      trying
      > to make PCGen better, as I believe it can truly be THE best
      character
      > generator for D20.

      I'm certainly glad to hear your suggestions.  PCGen wouldn't have
      gotten nearly this far if I'd insisted on only using my own ideas -
      many people have come up with absolutely fantastic ideas and have
      made coding it a lot of fun.  I think that part of what makes PCGen
      special is that there's such a strong community effort behind it. 
      Maybe by the time that GenCon rolls around we'll be up-to-date in
      terms of supporting all material that's been released by that time. 
      That's pretty aggresive, but it's certainly worth a shot. :)
       
      Grrrrrr. still pissed that i'm not going to be able to go this year.  I'm already savign up for next year.
       

      v     Cleverly Disguised As A Responsible Adult,

      Erin

       
      -Bryan

      >
      > Chris Wachal



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    • mocha@mcs.net
      ... specializations? ... I don t follow your question... I remember discussing a feature recently where we talked about adding text to any kind of object - is
      Message 2 of 26 , Jun 4, 2001
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        --- In pcgen@y..., "Damian" <westfam@a...> wrote:
        > Lots of stuff below.
        >
        > v Cleverly Disguised As A Responsible Adult,
        >
        > Erin
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: mocha@m... [mailto:mocha@m...]
        > Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 9:52 AM
        > To: pcgen@y...
        > Subject: [pcgen] Re: The Problems with PCGen and Solutions?
        >
        >
        > --- In pcgen@y..., "Chris Wachal" <cwachal@h...> wrote:

        >
        > Are we going to have pop up text fields for nonstandard
        specializations?
        > Stuff that's not in the books?

        I don't follow your question... I remember discussing a feature
        recently where we talked about adding text to any kind of object - is
        that what you're referring to? That'll be in the feature request
        list, but it won't be in 2.0.0. The new version will be quite like
        PCGen 1.4 in terms of what it can handle - it's mostly a gui facelift
        and the ability to run on non-Windows OSes that's driving the initial
        release.



        > >
        > > When I say "drag" in these examples, I believe something like
        the
        > > current spell system, where you click on something then click a
        > > button to add it would work too.
        >
        > Our drag-n-drop method for equipping, when completed, will look a
        lot
        > like a file brower. You'll see objects displayed in a hierarchy,
        with
        > containers displayed like a directory. In java this is called a
        > JTree - so you can actually click on the object and drag it over
        the
        > container you want to put it in.
        >
        > Going the rout of the old Core Rules stuff, eh? cool, i liked
        how that
        > worked, and is what i was going to suggest anyway (or did suggest,
        my minds
        > a little glitchy right now). Don't forget to allow containers
        within
        > containers, and you COULD give them a HOME container, for stuff
        they want to
        > HAVE, but don't carry with them.

        I've never seen the Core Rules, but it's possible the guy who started
        that work for me got his inspiration from there. I think he wants to
        treat everything (and throw in body parts as well...) as containers.
        That way you can put daggers in your cloak, or on your left ankle, or
        whatever. Containers will definitely be allowed to be nested - but I
        think we're planning on having it show what they're carrying and how
        they're carrying it. If we let you pick different modes (say you
        take items a-g while in a dungeon crawl, but only items a, d & e
        while in town. That would be messy to determine your encumberance
        because I wouldn't know where you were and that would impact your
        speed et al).



        > I'm certainly glad to hear your suggestions. PCGen wouldn't have
        > gotten nearly this far if I'd insisted on only using my own
        ideas -
        > many people have come up with absolutely fantastic ideas and have
        > made coding it a lot of fun. I think that part of what makes
        PCGen
        > special is that there's such a strong community effort behind it.
        > Maybe by the time that GenCon rolls around we'll be up-to-date in
        > terms of supporting all material that's been released by that
        time.
        > That's pretty aggresive, but it's certainly worth a shot. :)
        >
        > Grrrrrr. still pissed that i'm not going to be able to go this
        year. I'm
        > already savign up for next year.

        I'm hoping to go to GenCon. I've never gone before and this is its
        last year in Milwaukee. I'd like to go once just to see what the hub-
        bub is all about. I joke about making a T-Shirt about PCGen just to
        see if anyone knows what I'm talking about while I there.... ;)

        -Bryan

        >
        > v Cleverly Disguised As A Responsible Adult,
        >
        > Erin
        >
        >
        > -Bryan
        >
        > >
        > > Chris Wachal
        >
        >
        >
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      • Damian
        I don t follow your question... I remember discussing a feature recently where we talked about adding text to any kind of object - is that what you re
        Message 3 of 26 , Jun 4, 2001
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          I don't follow your question... I remember discussing a feature
          recently where we talked about adding text to any kind of object - is
          that what you're referring to?  That'll be in the feature request
          list, but it won't be in 2.0.0.  The new version will be quite like
          PCGen 1.4 in terms of what it can handle - it's mostly a gui facelift
          and the ability to run on non-Windows OSes that's driving the initial
          release.
           
          For instanc you could select Craft, and put "automobile" as the type. 

          >   >
          >   >
          When I say "drag" in these examples, I believe something like
          the
          >   > current spell system, where you click on
          something then click a
          >   > button to add it would work
          too.
          >
          >   Our drag-n-drop method for equipping, when
          completed, will look a
          lot
          >   like a file brower. You'll
          see objects displayed in a hierarchy,
          with
          >   containers
          displayed like a directory.  In java this is called a
          >  
          JTree - so you can actually click on the object and drag it over
          the
          >   container you want to put it in.
          >
          >   Going the rout of the old Core Rules stuff, eh?  cool,
          i liked
          how that
          > worked, and is what i was going to suggest anyway
          (or did suggest,
          my minds
          > a little glitchy right now).  Don't
          forget to allow containers
          within
          > containers, and you COULD give
          them a HOME container, for stuff
          they want to
          > HAVE, but don't carry
          with them.

          I've never seen the Core Rules, but it's possible the guy who started
          that work for me got his inspiration from there.  I think he wants to
          treat everything (and throw in body parts as well...) as containers.
          That way you can put daggers in your cloak, or on your left ankle, or
          whatever. Containers will definitely be allowed to be nested - but I
          think we're planning on having it show what they're carrying and how
          they're carrying it.  If we let you pick different modes (say you
          take items a-g while in a dungeon crawl, but only items a, d & e
          while in town.  That would be messy to determine your encumberance
          because I wouldn't know where you were and that would impact your
          speed et al).



          >   I'm certainly glad to hear your
          suggestions.  PCGen wouldn't have
          >   gotten nearly this
          far if I'd insisted on only using my own
          ideas -
          >   many
          people have come up with absolutely fantastic ideas and have
          >  
          made coding it a lot of fun.  I think that part of what makes
          PCGen
          >   special is that there's such a strong community
          effort behind it.
          >   Maybe by the time that GenCon rolls around
          we'll be up-to-date in
          >   terms of supporting all material
          that's been released by that
          time.
          >   That's pretty
          aggresive, but it's certainly worth a shot. :)
          >
          >  
          Grrrrrr. still pissed that i'm not going to be able to go this
          year.  I'm
          > already savign up for next year.

          I'm hoping to go to GenCon.  I've never gone before and this is its
          last year in Milwaukee.  I'd like to go once just to see what the hub-
          bub is all about.  I joke about making a T-Shirt about PCGen just to
          see if anyone knows what I'm talking about while I there.... ;)

          -Bryan
           2002 is the last year.  i checked the wizards.com schedule.  http://www.wizards.com/gencon/2001/future_gencons.asp
        • Damian
          v Cleverly Disguised As A Responsible Adult, Erin ... From: Damian [mailto:westfam@awesomenet.net] Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 6:13 PM To:
          Message 4 of 26 , Jun 4, 2001
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            v     Cleverly Disguised As A Responsible Adult,

            Erin

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Damian [mailto:westfam@...]
            Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 6:13 PM
            To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [pcgen] Re: The Problems with PCGen and Solutions?


            I don't follow your question... I remember discussing a feature
            recently where we talked about adding text to any kind of object - is
            that what you're referring to?  That'll be in the feature request
            list, but it won't be in 2.0.0.  The new version will be quite like
            PCGen 1.4 in terms of what it can handle - it's mostly a gui facelift
            and the ability to run on non-Windows OSes that's driving the initial
            release.
             
            For instanc you could select Craft, and put "automobile" as the type.  
             
            That is, in addition to the other choices.  you know, have a "blank" choice that will let you type in it, or you can use the pull down.  better explanaion? 
          • maggard@aztec.asu.edu
            A seperate area for Wealth would allow the gems, precious metals, etc. to be in one area. And equipment becomes the tools to do your job. ... desired ...
            Message 5 of 26 , Jun 4, 2001
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              A seperate area for Wealth would allow the gems, precious metals,
              etc. to be in one area. And equipment becomes the tools to do your
              job.

              --- In pcgen@y..., mocha@m... wrote:
              > We've talked about a currency system, and it definitely will get
              > done, just not for the 2.0.0 release. We'll let you define which
              > currency is the 'standard', and the 'gold' field in the Items tab
              > will be tied to how many of those coins you have. All the other
              > coins will have a cost associated with them, which will give us an
              > exchange rate. Our thinking was to do this as equipment, but in
              > thinking about this I realize that the coins would then show up in
              > the Equipment lists on the charactersheets, which may not be
              desired
              > behavior. You could also display them in a separate 'wealth'
              section
              > by using the EQTYPE.Coins token, but maybe breaking them out of
              > equipment into a Wealth object would be a better implementation.
              > Anyway, the idea is pretty much there, just need to work out the
              > kinks. :)
              >
              > -Bryan
              >
              > --- In pcgen@y..., Lonestar <Lonestar@l...> wrote:
              > > kyc> I'd also like to address the gold issue. If you go under
              the
              > misc.
              > > kyc> tab in the program and put in the amount of gold, silver,
              > copper, or
              > > kyc> platinum peices the person in the party has it shows up on
              the
              > ROG
              > > kyc> sheet under gold!
              > >
              > > I think currency support is supposed to be on the to-do list.
              > > It should be possible to have a self defined currency system for
              > each
              > > campaign (region?).
              > > In the Forgotten Realms it is:
              > > 1 platinum = 10 gold = 100 silver = 1000 copper coins
              > > In Waterdeep thers the toal (a square brass coin with a central
              > hole,
              > > worth 2gp) and the harbor moon (a flat crescent platinum with a
              > > central hole and an electrum inlay, worth 50 gp in Waterdeep and
              > 30gp
              > > elsewhere).
              > > Then there are trade bars of silver or gold in different weights
              (1
              > to
              > > 10 pounds) and there are some other exotic currencies like the
              Gond
              > > bells (small brass bells. worth 10gp in trade and 20gp in Gond
              > > temples) or the Shaar rings (pierced and polished slices of ivory,
              > > worth 3gp each) plus an assortment of pearls (used by undersea
              > > creatures as currency).
              > >
              > > Ok, thats a rather complex currency system, but it would be great
              if
              > > it would be supported by PCGen ;)
              > >
              > >
              > > Lonestar mailto:Lonestar@l...
            • mocha@mcs.net
              I see... I think someone already mentioned that this would cause potential problems for Feats like Skill Focus. I am planning on putting in PCGen the ability
              Message 6 of 26 , Jun 6, 2001
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                I see... I think someone already mentioned that this would cause
                potential problems for Feats like Skill Focus. I am planning on
                putting in PCGen the ability to 'collapse' skills. This has been a
                long-standing request... basically some skills are related and you
                don't necessarily always want to see all of them listed. The Filters
                in PCGen 2.0 get you part of the way since you can pick if you want
                to see Class skills, Cross-Class, Untrained or Exclusive. But to
                collapse all the Knowledge skills into one row is also on the board.
                It won't make the initial release - but you'll see the disabled
                checkbox which will make it happen at some point... If you really
                want to select a Knowledge Skill you can uncollapse the skill view,
                if you want to collapse the hundred billion Knowledge, Craft and
                Profession skills, just click on the checkbox. It should make
                naviagating the skill list a lot easier.

                -Bryan

                --- In pcgen@y..., "Damian" <westfam@a...> wrote:
                >
                > I don't follow your question... I remember discussing a feature
                > recently where we talked about adding text to any kind of object -
                is
                > that what you're referring to? That'll be in the feature request
                > list, but it won't be in 2.0.0. The new version will be quite like
                > PCGen 1.4 in terms of what it can handle - it's mostly a gui
                facelift
                > and the ability to run on non-Windows OSes that's driving the
                initial
                > release.
                >
                > For instanc you could select Craft, and put "automobile" as the
                type.
              • mocha@mcs.net
                I think what I ll do is keep wealth (like coins, gems, etc.) in the equipment list to keep purchasing/selling simple. When you produce a character sheet I ll
                Message 7 of 26 , Jun 6, 2001
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                  I think what I'll do is keep wealth (like coins, gems, etc.) in the
                  equipment list to keep purchasing/selling simple. When you produce a
                  character sheet I'll strip those items out of the equipment list and
                  put them in a separate list with a new token to output them. When
                  the charactersheet is done I'll put them back in the equipment list.
                  I might be able to get this done before the release of 2.0... but I'm
                  not sure.

                  -Bryan

                  --- In pcgen@y..., maggard@a... wrote:
                  > A seperate area for Wealth would allow the gems, precious metals,
                  > etc. to be in one area. And equipment becomes the tools to do your
                  > job.
                  >
                  > --- In pcgen@y..., mocha@m... wrote:
                  > > We've talked about a currency system, and it definitely will get
                  > > done, just not for the 2.0.0 release. We'll let you define which
                  > > currency is the 'standard', and the 'gold' field in the Items tab
                  > > will be tied to how many of those coins you have. All the other
                  > > coins will have a cost associated with them, which will give us
                  an
                  > > exchange rate. Our thinking was to do this as equipment, but in
                  > > thinking about this I realize that the coins would then show up
                  in
                  > > the Equipment lists on the charactersheets, which may not be
                  > desired
                  > > behavior. You could also display them in a separate 'wealth'
                  > section
                  > > by using the EQTYPE.Coins token, but maybe breaking them out of
                  > > equipment into a Wealth object would be a better implementation.
                  > > Anyway, the idea is pretty much there, just need to work out the
                  > > kinks. :)
                  > >
                  > > -Bryan
                  > >
                  > > --- In pcgen@y..., Lonestar <Lonestar@l...> wrote:
                  > > > kyc> I'd also like to address the gold issue. If you go under
                  > the
                  > > misc.
                  > > > kyc> tab in the program and put in the amount of gold, silver,
                  > > copper, or
                  > > > kyc> platinum peices the person in the party has it shows up on
                  > the
                  > > ROG
                  > > > kyc> sheet under gold!
                  > > >
                  > > > I think currency support is supposed to be on the to-do list.
                  > > > It should be possible to have a self defined currency system
                  for
                  > > each
                  > > > campaign (region?).
                  > > > In the Forgotten Realms it is:
                  > > > 1 platinum = 10 gold = 100 silver = 1000 copper coins
                  > > > In Waterdeep thers the toal (a square brass coin with a central
                  > > hole,
                  > > > worth 2gp) and the harbor moon (a flat crescent platinum with a
                  > > > central hole and an electrum inlay, worth 50 gp in Waterdeep
                  and
                  > > 30gp
                  > > > elsewhere).
                  > > > Then there are trade bars of silver or gold in different
                  weights
                  > (1
                  > > to
                  > > > 10 pounds) and there are some other exotic currencies like the
                  > Gond
                  > > > bells (small brass bells. worth 10gp in trade and 20gp in Gond
                  > > > temples) or the Shaar rings (pierced and polished slices of
                  ivory,
                  > > > worth 3gp each) plus an assortment of pearls (used by undersea
                  > > > creatures as currency).
                  > > >
                  > > > Ok, thats a rather complex currency system, but it would be
                  great
                  > if
                  > > > it would be supported by PCGen ;)
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Lonestar mailto:Lonestar@l...
                • maggard@aztec.asu.edu
                  Any chance of taking this one step further so you can collaps different levels of each skills? e.g. + Craft Skills - Knowledge Skills + A - D + E - H + I - L +
                  Message 8 of 26 , Jun 6, 2001
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                    Any chance of taking this one step further so you can collaps
                    different levels of each skills?
                    e.g.
                    + Craft Skills
                    - Knowledge Skills
                    + A - D
                    + E - H
                    + I - L
                    + M - p
                    + Q - T
                    + U - Z
                    + Profession Skills


                    --- In pcgen@y..., mocha@m... wrote:
                    > I see... I think someone already mentioned that this would cause
                    > potential problems for Feats like Skill Focus. I am planning on
                    > putting in PCGen the ability to 'collapse' skills. This has been a
                    > long-standing request... basically some skills are related and you
                    > don't necessarily always want to see all of them listed. The
                    Filters
                    > in PCGen 2.0 get you part of the way since you can pick if you want
                    > to see Class skills, Cross-Class, Untrained or Exclusive. But to
                    > collapse all the Knowledge skills into one row is also on the
                    board.
                    > It won't make the initial release - but you'll see the disabled
                    > checkbox which will make it happen at some point... If you really
                    > want to select a Knowledge Skill you can uncollapse the skill view,
                    > if you want to collapse the hundred billion Knowledge, Craft and
                    > Profession skills, just click on the checkbox. It should make
                    > naviagating the skill list a lot easier.
                    >
                    > -Bryan
                  • Chris Wachal
                    ... have ... feat ... any ... displayed. ... of ... to ... I agree, however, I like to be able to see the feats I currently have in a quick list so that I can
                    Message 9 of 26 , Jun 6, 2001
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                      > The feats tab looks very different - most tabs (feats included) are
                      > dominated by a table displaying all the relevant info. For feats
                      > this means whether or not you qualify for it, it's name, how you
                      have
                      > it (virtual, no, yes), any pre-requisites, it's description and
                      > source file. The options (virtual, yes, no) is actually a button,
                      > and by clicking on the button you're selecting/de-selecting the
                      feat
                      > (any choices related to it are then presented). You can sort by
                      any
                      > column in the table (same for all tables in PCGen except for the
                      > stats table) and you can even filter out which feats are
                      displayed.
                      > Our API will be open, so your friend would be able to construct his
                      > own interface if he wanted to. A largely drag-and-drop type
                      > interface would certainly be a good choice, but I like the amount
                      of
                      > info you can provide in a table. It also gives you more sorting
                      > options than you'd have in a drag-n-drop solution. Just comes down
                      to
                      > preferences.
                      >

                      I agree, however, I like to be able to see the feats I currently have
                      in a quick list so that I can see "I've spend 2 feats on toughness, I
                      already have power attack, hmm...I guess I could take cleave" and
                      then search for the feat in the list.

                      Also, being able to quickly bypass feats that I can not take would be
                      handy, either being able to filter them out or make them greyed out,
                      it is not easy to see the * beside it.


                      > All tables (minus one) will be sortable by every column, so that
                      > request is already handled.:) I have big plans on how to change
                      the
                      > equipping functionality, but we just didn't have time to get that
                      in
                      > this initial release. The way I want to handle it is via a drag-n-
                      > drop type interface which is very intuitive - I also plan on
                      handling
                      > putting stuff in containers all in the same interface... so we'll
                      get
                      > there, just not in 2.0.0 (maybe 2.0.1, but we'll see...) :)
                      >

                      I'm glad to hear this. This should all work out good. I do think
                      that the feature of Master Tools to set up "Sets" of equipment for
                      things like "what are my pluses with 2 weapons", "what about with a
                      weapon and a shield?".

                      If the equipment section isn't changing in the next version, could
                      you at least add a button to add one to the currently selected
                      equipment? Also, supporting shield proficiencies would be handy.


                      > I take it you like drag-n-drop? :) My preference is definitely on
                      > the table side. Technically everyone has all skills (except
                      > exclusive ones) because ranks are really just modifiers, whereas
                      drag-
                      > n-drop would indicate that you don't have the skill at all unless
                      you
                      > allocate at least one skill-point to it. I like the table
                      > presentation because I can display in one column your total,
                      > modifiers, ranks and whatnot and you can sort on any of them. You
                      > can also use a filter to filter on just class-skills, cross-class
                      > skills, exclusive or untrained. I think you'll like it. :)
                      >

                      That is technically incorrect. All players have all the untrained
                      skills, however that is less than half the list. You need to have at
                      least 1 rank in a trained skill to be able to use that skill.

                      Having a list of available skills and ones you have access to would
                      be handy. Maybe start the skill list of skills you already have with
                      all of the untrained skills. This way newbies can see "Oh, I already
                      have swim at 4 total because I have an 18 strength, but I can't play
                      an instrument yet." I think for newbies, it helps to be able to
                      see "these are all the skills I can use, and these are the ones I
                      can't".

                      For us who play DND a lot, it is easy to just say "I know that any
                      skill that has a cost of 1.0 is a class skill and anyone with a cost
                      of 2.0 is a cross classed skill." Being able to filter the skill
                      list to "untrained, trained, class skills, cross-class skills,
                      exclusive, and all" would be handy.

                      Also, I want to make a request for my friend. He apparently hates
                      clicking an add button, he wants to be able to enter the number of
                      ranks in a field for a skill.


                      > As ROG mentioned - this is a charactersheet issue. The GOLD token
                      > does this, but the wealth issue is about to get a face-lift
                      > afterwhich time ROG will add those tokens to his charactersheet.
                      >

                      I now know about the gold issue. I thought there might have been the
                      capability to put them on the character sheet. I just thought it
                      kind of strange that the program had that capability and it didn't
                      print it.


                      > >
                      > > 5. I would like to request the ability to add a bonus to all
                      skills
                      > > based off of one attribute like "+2 to all charisma based
                      skills".
                      > I
                      > > don't know if you can already do this, however, right now the
                      > circlet
                      > > of persuasion is listed as +2 to charisma instead of +2 to all
                      > > charisma based skills.
                      >
                      > Ah - then it should really be +4 to charisma to give a +2 mod.
                      >

                      That doesn't work correctly, however. A +4 charisma does add the
                      correct modifier to all your skills, however it also adds +2 to your
                      spell DCs if you are a sorcerer and your saves if you are a paladin.
                      The circlet isn't supposed to do that.

                      Right now, I have made a work around on my system by changing the
                      circlet of persuasion to add plus 2 to every charisma based skill
                      individually, however if anyone adds another charisma based skill in
                      a LST file, the circlet would not add to that.

                      A function to do something like "Add 2 to all skills based off of any
                      one stat" would be handy.


                      > I'm certainly glad to hear your suggestions. PCGen wouldn't have
                      > gotten nearly this far if I'd insisted on only using my own ideas -
                      > many people have come up with absolutely fantastic ideas and have
                      > made coding it a lot of fun. I think that part of what makes PCGen
                      > special is that there's such a strong community effort behind it.
                      > Maybe by the time that GenCon rolls around we'll be up-to-date in
                      > terms of supporting all material that's been released by that
                      time.
                      > That's pretty aggresive, but it's certainly worth a shot. :)
                      >
                      > -Bryan

                      No problem, I like trying to help. I take no offense at any
                      criticism of my comments either, they may not be the best way to do
                      things, but I think they will help.

                      Chris Wachal
                    • nezzir@home.com
                      Someone mentioned there was a box to check that would include all skills on the html page. Right now it just shows the ones I have put points in...
                      Message 10 of 26 , Jun 7, 2001
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                        Someone mentioned there was a box to check that would include all skills on
                        the html page. Right now it just shows the ones I have put points in...
                      • mocha@mcs.net
                        In the main tab where you select options there s a checkbox for Include Untrained Skills. If you click on this *BEFORE* you import or create a new character,
                        Message 11 of 26 , Jun 8, 2001
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                          In the main tab where you select options there's a checkbox for
                          Include Untrained Skills. If you click on this *BEFORE* you import
                          or create a new character, all the untrained skills will be added to
                          your character. In PCGen 2.0.0 this has been expanded slightly to a
                          selection box where you can pick None (meaning no extra skills),
                          Untrained (like clicking on this checkbox) and All (you get
                          everything, trained & exclusive...)

                          -Bryan

                          --- In pcgen@y..., "nezzir@h..." <nezzir@h...> wrote:
                          > Someone mentioned there was a box to check that would include all
                          skills on
                          > the html page. Right now it just shows the ones I have put points
                          in...
                        • Gary
                          There s also items like the luck stone and an ioun stone that give you a +1 to stat checks or a +1 to ALL skill checks. We d rather not have to specify each
                          Message 12 of 26 , Jun 8, 2001
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                            There's also items like the luck stone and an ioun stone that give you
                            a +1 to stat checks or a +1 to ALL skill checks. We'd rather not have
                            to specify each skill on those items. I'm sure more will crop up.

                            --- In pcgen@y..., "House Gryphon" <gryps@b...> wrote:
                            > ----- Original Message -----
                            > From: "Chris Wachal" <cwachal@h...>
                            > > Right now, I have made a work around on my system by changing the
                            > > circlet of persuasion to add plus 2 to every charisma based skill
                            > > individually, however if anyone adds another charisma based skill
                            in
                            > > a LST file, the circlet would not add to that.
                            > > A function to do something like "Add 2 to all skills based off of
                            any
                            > > one stat" would be handy.
                            >
                            > Actually, this may be the best way to do it.
                            >
                            > The condition "skills based off a stat" is just one of the many
                            weird and
                            > wonderful combinations that could crop up.
                            >
                            > My view is that:
                            > * It is a waste coding for all the possibilities that may never crop
                            up.
                            > * If there is only one item like this it is easier to modify the
                            item,
                            > rather than add more complex functionality to the software - change
                            the LST
                            > data file isn't too difficult.
                            > * Once a bit of functionality becomes common, then it is worth it to
                            add to
                            > a new version of the software.
                            >
                            > Question: Are there more items like the circlet ??? Most of the
                            others I
                            > can think of off the top of my head add to stats, not skills (eg
                            Potion of
                            > Cat's Grace, Girdle of Giant Strength, etc).
                            >
                            > - Sly
                          • mocha@mcs.net
                            I think BONUS:SKILL|LIST|1 would work for this. At least I think it ought to... let me know if it doesn t! -Bryan ... you ... have ... the ... skill ... skill
                            Message 13 of 26 , Jun 8, 2001
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                              I think BONUS:SKILL|LIST|1 would work for this. At least I think it
                              ought to... let me know if it doesn't!

                              -Bryan

                              --- In pcgen@y..., "Gary" <dinthron@y...> wrote:
                              > There's also items like the luck stone and an ioun stone that give
                              you
                              > a +1 to stat checks or a +1 to ALL skill checks. We'd rather not
                              have
                              > to specify each skill on those items. I'm sure more will crop up.
                              >
                              > --- In pcgen@y..., "House Gryphon" <gryps@b...> wrote:
                              > > ----- Original Message -----
                              > > From: "Chris Wachal" <cwachal@h...>
                              > > > Right now, I have made a work around on my system by changing
                              the
                              > > > circlet of persuasion to add plus 2 to every charisma based
                              skill
                              > > > individually, however if anyone adds another charisma based
                              skill
                              > in
                              > > > a LST file, the circlet would not add to that.
                              > > > A function to do something like "Add 2 to all skills based off
                              of
                              > any
                              > > > one stat" would be handy.
                              > >
                              > > Actually, this may be the best way to do it.
                              > >
                              > > The condition "skills based off a stat" is just one of the many
                              > weird and
                              > > wonderful combinations that could crop up.
                              > >
                              > > My view is that:
                              > > * It is a waste coding for all the possibilities that may never
                              crop
                              > up.
                              > > * If there is only one item like this it is easier to modify the
                              > item,
                              > > rather than add more complex functionality to the software -
                              change
                              > the LST
                              > > data file isn't too difficult.
                              > > * Once a bit of functionality becomes common, then it is worth it
                              to
                              > add to
                              > > a new version of the software.
                              > >
                              > > Question: Are there more items like the circlet ??? Most of the
                              > others I
                              > > can think of off the top of my head add to stats, not skills (eg
                              > Potion of
                              > > Cat's Grace, Girdle of Giant Strength, etc).
                              > >
                              > > - Sly
                            • john.sussenberger@libertymutual.com
                              Even more reason to have this coded :) Then I can make cool magic items that increase your Charisma skillz!! ... From: Gary [mailto:dinthron@yahoo.com] Sent:
                              Message 14 of 26 , Jun 8, 2001
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Even more reason to have this coded :)
                                 
                                Then I can make cool magic items that increase your Charisma skillz!!
                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: Gary [mailto:dinthron@...]
                                Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 2:01 PM
                                To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: [pcgen] Re: Magic items that modify skills

                                There's also items like the luck stone and an ioun stone that give you
                                a +1 to stat checks or a +1 to ALL skill checks.  We'd rather not have
                                to specify each skill on those items.  I'm sure more will crop up.

                                --- In pcgen@y..., "House Gryphon" <gryps@b...> wrote:
                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                > From: "Chris Wachal" <cwachal@h...>
                                > > Right now, I have made a work around on my system by changing the
                                > > circlet of persuasion to add plus 2 to every charisma based skill
                                > > individually, however if anyone adds another charisma based skill
                                in
                                > > a LST file, the circlet would not add to that.
                                > > A function to do something like "Add 2 to all skills based off of
                                any
                                > > one stat" would be handy.
                                >
                                > Actually, this may be the best way to do it.
                                >
                                > The condition "skills based off a stat" is just one of the many
                                weird and
                                > wonderful combinations that could crop up.
                                >
                                > My view is that:
                                > * It is a waste coding for all the possibilities that may never crop
                                up.
                                > * If there is only one item like this it is easier to modify the
                                item,
                                > rather than add more complex functionality to the software - change
                                the LST
                                > data file isn't too difficult.
                                > * Once a bit of functionality becomes common, then it is worth it to
                                add to
                                > a new version of the software.
                                >
                                > Question: Are there more items like the circlet ???  Most of the
                                others I
                                > can think of off the top of my head add to stats, not skills (eg
                                Potion of
                                > Cat's Grace, Girdle of Giant Strength, etc).
                                >
                                > - Sly



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                              • mocha@mcs.net
                                Hm - something like BONUS:SKILL|CHA|1 would be easy to do - what s the likelihood of a skill named STR,DEX,CON,INT,WIS or CHA? That would take almost a whole
                                Message 15 of 26 , Jun 8, 2001
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                                  Hm - something like BONUS:SKILL|CHA|1 would be easy to do - what's
                                  the likelihood of a skill named STR,DEX,CON,INT,WIS or CHA?
                                  That would take almost a whole line of code to implement...

                                  -Bryan

                                  --- In pcgen@y..., john.sussenberger@l... wrote:
                                  > Even more reason to have this coded :)
                                  >
                                  > Then I can make cool magic items that increase your Charisma
                                  skillz!!
                                  >
                                  > -----Original Message-----
                                  > From: Gary [mailto:dinthron@y...]
                                  > Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 2:01 PM
                                  > To: pcgen@y...
                                  > Subject: [pcgen] Re: Magic items that modify skills
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > There's also items like the luck stone and an ioun stone that give
                                  you
                                  > a +1 to stat checks or a +1 to ALL skill checks. We'd rather not
                                  have
                                  > to specify each skill on those items. I'm sure more will crop up.
                                  >
                                  > --- In pcgen@y..., "House Gryphon" <gryps@b...> wrote:
                                  > > ----- Original Message -----
                                  > > From: "Chris Wachal" <cwachal@h...>
                                  > > > Right now, I have made a work around on my system by changing
                                  the
                                  > > > circlet of persuasion to add plus 2 to every charisma based
                                  skill
                                  > > > individually, however if anyone adds another charisma based
                                  skill
                                  > in
                                  > > > a LST file, the circlet would not add to that.
                                  > > > A function to do something like "Add 2 to all skills based off
                                  of
                                  > any
                                  > > > one stat" would be handy.
                                  > >
                                  > > Actually, this may be the best way to do it.
                                  > >
                                  > > The condition "skills based off a stat" is just one of the many
                                  > weird and
                                  > > wonderful combinations that could crop up.
                                  > >
                                  > > My view is that:
                                  > > * It is a waste coding for all the possibilities that may never
                                  crop
                                  > up.
                                  > > * If there is only one item like this it is easier to modify the
                                  > item,
                                  > > rather than add more complex functionality to the software -
                                  change
                                  > the LST
                                  > > data file isn't too difficult.
                                  > > * Once a bit of functionality becomes common, then it is worth it
                                  to
                                  > add to
                                  > > a new version of the software.
                                  > >
                                  > > Question: Are there more items like the circlet ??? Most of the
                                  > others I
                                  > > can think of off the top of my head add to stats, not skills (eg
                                  > Potion of
                                  > > Cat's Grace, Girdle of Giant Strength, etc).
                                  > >
                                  > > - Sly
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
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                                • Gary
                                  I tried this, and it didn t work. So I m letting you know. Ioun Stone (Pale green) TYPE:Magic Item.Wonderous Cost:20000 WT:0
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Jun 16, 2001
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    I tried this, and it didn't work. So I'm letting you know.

                                    Ioun Stone (Pale green) TYPE:Magic Item.Wonderous Cost:20000
                                    WT:0 BONUS:CHECKS|Fortitude,Willpower,Reflex|1
                                    BONUS:WEAPON|TOHIT|1 BONUS:WEAPONPROF=Unarmed Attack|TOHIT|1
                                    BONUS:SKILL|LIST|1

                                    The description says it gives +1 bonus to attacks, saving throws and
                                    skill checks.

                                    --- In pcgen@y..., mocha@m... wrote:
                                    > I think BONUS:SKILL|LIST|1 would work for this. At least I think it
                                    > ought to... let me know if it doesn't!
                                    >
                                    > -Bryan
                                    >
                                    > --- In pcgen@y..., "Gary" <dinthron@y...> wrote:
                                    > > There's also items like the luck stone and an ioun stone that give
                                    > you
                                    > > a +1 to stat checks or a +1 to ALL skill checks. We'd rather not
                                    > have
                                    > > to specify each skill on those items. I'm sure more will crop up.
                                    > >
                                    > > --- In pcgen@y..., "House Gryphon" <gryps@b...> wrote:
                                    > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                    > > > From: "Chris Wachal" <cwachal@h...>
                                    > > > > Right now, I have made a work around on my system by changing
                                    > the
                                    > > > > circlet of persuasion to add plus 2 to every charisma based
                                    > skill
                                    > > > > individually, however if anyone adds another charisma based
                                    > skill
                                    > > in
                                    > > > > a LST file, the circlet would not add to that.
                                    > > > > A function to do something like "Add 2 to all skills based off
                                    > of
                                    > > any
                                    > > > > one stat" would be handy.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Actually, this may be the best way to do it.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > The condition "skills based off a stat" is just one of the many
                                    > > weird and
                                    > > > wonderful combinations that could crop up.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > My view is that:
                                    > > > * It is a waste coding for all the possibilities that may never
                                    > crop
                                    > > up.
                                    > > > * If there is only one item like this it is easier to modify the
                                    > > item,
                                    > > > rather than add more complex functionality to the software -
                                    > change
                                    > > the LST
                                    > > > data file isn't too difficult.
                                    > > > * Once a bit of functionality becomes common, then it is worth
                                    it
                                    > to
                                    > > add to
                                    > > > a new version of the software.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Question: Are there more items like the circlet ??? Most of the
                                    > > others I
                                    > > > can think of off the top of my head add to stats, not skills (eg
                                    > > Potion of
                                    > > > Cat's Grace, Girdle of Giant Strength, etc).
                                    > > >
                                    > > > - Sly
                                  • Brass Tilde
                                    ... _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Jun 16, 2001
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                                      > -----Original Message-----
                                      > From: Gary [mailto:dinthron@...]
                                      >
                                      > I tried this, and it didn't work. So I'm letting you know.
                                      >
                                      > Ioun Stone (Pale green) TYPE:Magic Item.Wonderous Cost:20000
                                      > WT:0 BONUS:CHECKS|Fortitude,Willpower,Reflex|1
                                      > BONUS:WEAPON|TOHIT|1 BONUS:WEAPONPROF=Unarmed Attack|TOHIT|1
                                      > BONUS:SKILL|LIST|1
                                      >

                                      This bug has been entered at the SourceForge site as bug report #433808.

                                      You may access the SourceForge bug tracking page at:
                                      https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?group_id=25576&atid=384719

                                      _________________________________________________________
                                      Do You Yahoo!?
                                      Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com
                                    • House Gryphon
                                      ... From: Chris Wachal ... Actually, this may be the best way to do it. The condition skills based off a stat is just one of the many
                                      Message 18 of 26 , Jun 23, 2001
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: "Chris Wachal" <cwachal@...>
                                        > Right now, I have made a work around on my system by changing the
                                        > circlet of persuasion to add plus 2 to every charisma based skill
                                        > individually, however if anyone adds another charisma based skill in
                                        > a LST file, the circlet would not add to that.
                                        > A function to do something like "Add 2 to all skills based off of any
                                        > one stat" would be handy.

                                        Actually, this may be the best way to do it.

                                        The condition "skills based off a stat" is just one of the many weird and
                                        wonderful combinations that could crop up.

                                        My view is that:
                                        * It is a waste coding for all the possibilities that may never crop up.
                                        * If there is only one item like this it is easier to modify the item,
                                        rather than add more complex functionality to the software - change the LST
                                        data file isn't too difficult.
                                        * Once a bit of functionality becomes common, then it is worth it to add to
                                        a new version of the software.

                                        Question: Are there more items like the circlet ??? Most of the others I
                                        can think of off the top of my head add to stats, not skills (eg Potion of
                                        Cat's Grace, Girdle of Giant Strength, etc).

                                        - Sly
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