Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: The Problems with PCGen and Solutions?

Expand Messages
  • sorrow@talk21.com
    *looks at Bryan s comments on V2.0* Oooooh. Every time someone mentions the new version, it sounds better ;) Can t wait to see this.
    Message 1 of 26 , Jun 4, 2001
      *looks at Bryan's comments on V2.0*

      Oooooh. Every time someone mentions the new version, it sounds
      better ;)

      Can't wait to see this.
    • Damian
      Lots of stuff below. v Cleverly Disguised As A Responsible Adult, Erin ... From: mocha@mcs.net [mailto:mocha@mcs.net] Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 9:52 AM
      Message 2 of 26 , Jun 4, 2001
        Lots of stuff below.
         

        v     Cleverly Disguised As A Responsible Adult,

        Erin

        -----Original Message-----
        From: mocha@... [mailto:mocha@...]
        Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 9:52 AM
        To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [pcgen] Re: The Problems with PCGen and Solutions?

        --- In pcgen@y..., "Chris Wachal" <cwachal@h...> wrote:
        > Since PCGen was being partially rewritten anyways, I figured that I
        > would give a couple suggestions on features that would make PCGen
        the
        > best program it can be.

        Hey - I'm always open to ideas! :)

        >
        > I finally convinced a programmer friend of mine to try PCGen to
        > generate characters, he liked the Master Tools demo for that.  He
        > thinks that this program has so much potential but there are a
        couple
        > things that need to be changed.  He says they would be fairly easy
        to
        > repair and said he might be willing to help should you have
        questions
        > as to how to implement these features.  What we see as a couple
        major
        > flaws of the program that are limiting its effectiveness are as
        > follows:
        >
        > 1. Feats need to have a screen set up to drag "available feats"
        over
        > to a "chosen feats" section.  This will allow you to take any feats
        > more than once, unlike the current system.  Each feat will need a
        > descriptor for whether or not it allows mulitple or not.
        >
        > It also allows you to easily see which feats you currently have as
        > well as easily take things like "Weapon Focus: longsword"
        and "Weapon
        > Focus: short sword".

        The feats tab looks very different - most tabs (feats included) are
        dominated by a table displaying all the relevant info.  For feats
        this means whether or not you qualify for it, it's name, how you have
        it (virtual, no, yes), any pre-requisites, it's description and
        source file.  The options (virtual, yes, no) is actually a button,
        and by clicking on the button you're selecting/de-selecting the feat
        (any choices related to it are then presented).  You can sort by any
        column in the table (same for all tables in PCGen except for the
        stats table) and you can even filter out which feats are displayed. 
        Our API will be open, so your friend would be able to construct his
        own interface if he wanted to.  A largely drag-and-drop type
        interface would certainly be a good choice, but I like the amount of
        info you can provide in a table.  It also gives you more sorting
        options than you'd have in a drag-n-drop solution. Just comes down to
        preferences. 
         
        I like the table method too.  I want LOTS of info in my generator.  that's part of the problem i had with the one that came with the Players Handbook. 

        >
        > 2. You need to be able to sort the equipment by all the
        categories. 
        > As well, a system like the feats above where you drag items into
        your
        > inventory.  Items could either be set as multiple or not.  Multiple
        > items would allow you to buy more than one of something at once as
        be
        > listed as "7 days rations", whereas some items could only be bought
        > one at a time, so you could drag "Short Sword" over to your
        inventory
        > and have one.  If you wanted a second one for your offhand, you
        could
        > drag another "Short Sword" over, each one would be listed as
        > different items.
        >
        > You would need a button called add or something so you could select
        a
        > multiple item in your inventory and add 1 to it.  So you would drag
        > over "Days of Iron Rations" and it would automatically assign 1 to
        > it, then you could click on it and add more, so you could put it up
        > to 7.  This would also enable you to make "groups" of items.  For
        > instance, in this same situation, after taking 7 days of rations,
        you
        > could drag another "days of iron rations" over, it would auto
        assign
        > 1 to that one, and then you could add 6 more to it, and therefore
        > have 2 "groups" of 7 days iron rations.  This would make it easier
        to
        > marks weeks of rations for instance off your character sheet.
        >
        > This system would enable you to actually equip one short sword in
        > each hand.  It could be done by making your equipment into an array.

        All tables (minus one) will be sortable by every column, so that
        request is already handled.:)  I have big plans on how to change the
        equipping functionality, but we just didn't have time to get that in
        this initial release.  The way I want to handle it is via a drag-n-
        drop type interface which is very intuitive - I also plan on handling
        putting stuff in containers all in the same interface... so we'll get
        there, just not in 2.0.0 (maybe 2.0.1, but we'll see...) :) 

        >
        > 3. We need to have a similar system as the items for the skills. 
        > Drag a skill over when you take it, it would set the skill at 1.0
        or
        > 0.5 if it is cross class.  It would also ask you for the
        > specialization when you first move it over.  For instance, if you
        > drag "History" over, it would come up with a list of choices for
        > specialization like "local" or "The Dales" or "Waterdeep" or
        > something.

        I take it you like drag-n-drop? :)  My preference is definitely on
        the table side.  Technically everyone has all skills (except
        exclusive ones) because ranks are really just modifiers, whereas drag-
        n-drop would indicate that you don't have the skill at all unless you
        allocate at least one skill-point to it.  I like the table
        presentation because I can display in one column your total,
        modifiers, ranks and whatnot and you can sort on any of them.  You
        can also use a filter to filter on just class-skills, cross-class
        skills, exclusive or untrained. I think you'll like it. :) 
         
        Are we going to have pop up text fields for nonstandard specializations?  Stuff that's not in the books? 

        >
        > 4. The amount of gold you have left after you purchase your
        equipment
        > should print somewhere on the character sheets, it doesn't yet. 
        You
        > have to manually enter it into the money section

        As ROG mentioned - this is a charactersheet issue.  The GOLD token
        does this, but the wealth issue is about to get a face-lift
        afterwhich time ROG will add those tokens to his charactersheet.

        >
        > 5. I would like to request the ability to add a bonus to all skills
        > based off of one attribute like "+2 to all charisma based skills". 
        I
        > don't know if you can already do this, however, right now the
        circlet
        > of persuasion is listed as +2 to charisma instead of +2 to all
        > charisma based skills.

        Ah - then it should really be +4 to charisma to give a +2 mod. 
         
        well, +4 to Charisma for purposes of skills.

        >
        > When I say "drag" in these examples, I believe something like the
        > current spell system, where you click on something then click a
        > button to add it would work too.

        Our drag-n-drop method for equipping, when completed, will look a lot
        like a file brower. You'll see objects displayed in a hierarchy, with
        containers displayed like a directory.  In java this is called a
        JTree - so you can actually click on the object and drag it over the
        container you want to put it in.
         
        Going the rout of the old Core Rules stuff, eh?  cool, i liked how that worked, and is what i was going to suggest anyway (or did suggest, my minds a little glitchy right now).  Don't forget to allow containers within containers, and you COULD give them a HOME container, for stuff they want to HAVE, but don't carry with them.

        >
        > I believe this system would require more information to be stored
        in
        > the character save files themselves.  If you are already storing
        more
        > information in the character sheets, would it be possible to store
        > information like the stats on all your weapons, spells, abilities
        of
        > your current levels of classes, etc. on your character save file so
        > you could load it in any copy of PCGen without that copy having the
        > appropriate lst files so you could still view your character and
        > create character sheets, but you wouldn't be able to increase your
        > level in any class that you didn't have the lst files for.
        >
        > I understand that some of it would be a lot of work, however, right
        > now as it stands, you cannot take multiple toughness feats, or
        equip
        > 2 of the same weapons.  As well, taking equipment is very difficult
        > right now, at the very least, this needs an "Add" button, so you
        > could select an item and then click the add button to add 1.
        >
        > I hope this helps slightly, you know I've been around a while
        trying
        > to make PCGen better, as I believe it can truly be THE best
        character
        > generator for D20.

        I'm certainly glad to hear your suggestions.  PCGen wouldn't have
        gotten nearly this far if I'd insisted on only using my own ideas -
        many people have come up with absolutely fantastic ideas and have
        made coding it a lot of fun.  I think that part of what makes PCGen
        special is that there's such a strong community effort behind it. 
        Maybe by the time that GenCon rolls around we'll be up-to-date in
        terms of supporting all material that's been released by that time. 
        That's pretty aggresive, but it's certainly worth a shot. :)
         
        Grrrrrr. still pissed that i'm not going to be able to go this year.  I'm already savign up for next year.
         

        v     Cleverly Disguised As A Responsible Adult,

        Erin

         
        -Bryan

        >
        > Chris Wachal



        To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        pcgen-unsubscribe@egroups.com



        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
      • mocha@mcs.net
        ... specializations? ... I don t follow your question... I remember discussing a feature recently where we talked about adding text to any kind of object - is
        Message 3 of 26 , Jun 4, 2001
          --- In pcgen@y..., "Damian" <westfam@a...> wrote:
          > Lots of stuff below.
          >
          > v Cleverly Disguised As A Responsible Adult,
          >
          > Erin
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: mocha@m... [mailto:mocha@m...]
          > Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 9:52 AM
          > To: pcgen@y...
          > Subject: [pcgen] Re: The Problems with PCGen and Solutions?
          >
          >
          > --- In pcgen@y..., "Chris Wachal" <cwachal@h...> wrote:

          >
          > Are we going to have pop up text fields for nonstandard
          specializations?
          > Stuff that's not in the books?

          I don't follow your question... I remember discussing a feature
          recently where we talked about adding text to any kind of object - is
          that what you're referring to? That'll be in the feature request
          list, but it won't be in 2.0.0. The new version will be quite like
          PCGen 1.4 in terms of what it can handle - it's mostly a gui facelift
          and the ability to run on non-Windows OSes that's driving the initial
          release.



          > >
          > > When I say "drag" in these examples, I believe something like
          the
          > > current spell system, where you click on something then click a
          > > button to add it would work too.
          >
          > Our drag-n-drop method for equipping, when completed, will look a
          lot
          > like a file brower. You'll see objects displayed in a hierarchy,
          with
          > containers displayed like a directory. In java this is called a
          > JTree - so you can actually click on the object and drag it over
          the
          > container you want to put it in.
          >
          > Going the rout of the old Core Rules stuff, eh? cool, i liked
          how that
          > worked, and is what i was going to suggest anyway (or did suggest,
          my minds
          > a little glitchy right now). Don't forget to allow containers
          within
          > containers, and you COULD give them a HOME container, for stuff
          they want to
          > HAVE, but don't carry with them.

          I've never seen the Core Rules, but it's possible the guy who started
          that work for me got his inspiration from there. I think he wants to
          treat everything (and throw in body parts as well...) as containers.
          That way you can put daggers in your cloak, or on your left ankle, or
          whatever. Containers will definitely be allowed to be nested - but I
          think we're planning on having it show what they're carrying and how
          they're carrying it. If we let you pick different modes (say you
          take items a-g while in a dungeon crawl, but only items a, d & e
          while in town. That would be messy to determine your encumberance
          because I wouldn't know where you were and that would impact your
          speed et al).



          > I'm certainly glad to hear your suggestions. PCGen wouldn't have
          > gotten nearly this far if I'd insisted on only using my own
          ideas -
          > many people have come up with absolutely fantastic ideas and have
          > made coding it a lot of fun. I think that part of what makes
          PCGen
          > special is that there's such a strong community effort behind it.
          > Maybe by the time that GenCon rolls around we'll be up-to-date in
          > terms of supporting all material that's been released by that
          time.
          > That's pretty aggresive, but it's certainly worth a shot. :)
          >
          > Grrrrrr. still pissed that i'm not going to be able to go this
          year. I'm
          > already savign up for next year.

          I'm hoping to go to GenCon. I've never gone before and this is its
          last year in Milwaukee. I'd like to go once just to see what the hub-
          bub is all about. I joke about making a T-Shirt about PCGen just to
          see if anyone knows what I'm talking about while I there.... ;)

          -Bryan

          >
          > v Cleverly Disguised As A Responsible Adult,
          >
          > Erin
          >
          >
          > -Bryan
          >
          > >
          > > Chris Wachal
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          >
          > Yahoo! Website Services- Click Here!
          >
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > pcgen-unsubscribe@egroups.com
          >
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
          Service.
        • Damian
          I don t follow your question... I remember discussing a feature recently where we talked about adding text to any kind of object - is that what you re
          Message 4 of 26 , Jun 4, 2001

            I don't follow your question... I remember discussing a feature
            recently where we talked about adding text to any kind of object - is
            that what you're referring to?  That'll be in the feature request
            list, but it won't be in 2.0.0.  The new version will be quite like
            PCGen 1.4 in terms of what it can handle - it's mostly a gui facelift
            and the ability to run on non-Windows OSes that's driving the initial
            release.
             
            For instanc you could select Craft, and put "automobile" as the type. 

            >   >
            >   >
            When I say "drag" in these examples, I believe something like
            the
            >   > current spell system, where you click on
            something then click a
            >   > button to add it would work
            too.
            >
            >   Our drag-n-drop method for equipping, when
            completed, will look a
            lot
            >   like a file brower. You'll
            see objects displayed in a hierarchy,
            with
            >   containers
            displayed like a directory.  In java this is called a
            >  
            JTree - so you can actually click on the object and drag it over
            the
            >   container you want to put it in.
            >
            >   Going the rout of the old Core Rules stuff, eh?  cool,
            i liked
            how that
            > worked, and is what i was going to suggest anyway
            (or did suggest,
            my minds
            > a little glitchy right now).  Don't
            forget to allow containers
            within
            > containers, and you COULD give
            them a HOME container, for stuff
            they want to
            > HAVE, but don't carry
            with them.

            I've never seen the Core Rules, but it's possible the guy who started
            that work for me got his inspiration from there.  I think he wants to
            treat everything (and throw in body parts as well...) as containers.
            That way you can put daggers in your cloak, or on your left ankle, or
            whatever. Containers will definitely be allowed to be nested - but I
            think we're planning on having it show what they're carrying and how
            they're carrying it.  If we let you pick different modes (say you
            take items a-g while in a dungeon crawl, but only items a, d & e
            while in town.  That would be messy to determine your encumberance
            because I wouldn't know where you were and that would impact your
            speed et al).



            >   I'm certainly glad to hear your
            suggestions.  PCGen wouldn't have
            >   gotten nearly this
            far if I'd insisted on only using my own
            ideas -
            >   many
            people have come up with absolutely fantastic ideas and have
            >  
            made coding it a lot of fun.  I think that part of what makes
            PCGen
            >   special is that there's such a strong community
            effort behind it.
            >   Maybe by the time that GenCon rolls around
            we'll be up-to-date in
            >   terms of supporting all material
            that's been released by that
            time.
            >   That's pretty
            aggresive, but it's certainly worth a shot. :)
            >
            >  
            Grrrrrr. still pissed that i'm not going to be able to go this
            year.  I'm
            > already savign up for next year.

            I'm hoping to go to GenCon.  I've never gone before and this is its
            last year in Milwaukee.  I'd like to go once just to see what the hub-
            bub is all about.  I joke about making a T-Shirt about PCGen just to
            see if anyone knows what I'm talking about while I there.... ;)

            -Bryan
             2002 is the last year.  i checked the wizards.com schedule.  http://www.wizards.com/gencon/2001/future_gencons.asp
          • Damian
            v Cleverly Disguised As A Responsible Adult, Erin ... From: Damian [mailto:westfam@awesomenet.net] Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 6:13 PM To:
            Message 5 of 26 , Jun 4, 2001
               
               

              v     Cleverly Disguised As A Responsible Adult,

              Erin

              -----Original Message-----
              From: Damian [mailto:westfam@...]
              Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 6:13 PM
              To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [pcgen] Re: The Problems with PCGen and Solutions?


              I don't follow your question... I remember discussing a feature
              recently where we talked about adding text to any kind of object - is
              that what you're referring to?  That'll be in the feature request
              list, but it won't be in 2.0.0.  The new version will be quite like
              PCGen 1.4 in terms of what it can handle - it's mostly a gui facelift
              and the ability to run on non-Windows OSes that's driving the initial
              release.
               
              For instanc you could select Craft, and put "automobile" as the type.  
               
              That is, in addition to the other choices.  you know, have a "blank" choice that will let you type in it, or you can use the pull down.  better explanaion? 
            • maggard@aztec.asu.edu
              A seperate area for Wealth would allow the gems, precious metals, etc. to be in one area. And equipment becomes the tools to do your job. ... desired ...
              Message 6 of 26 , Jun 4, 2001
                A seperate area for Wealth would allow the gems, precious metals,
                etc. to be in one area. And equipment becomes the tools to do your
                job.

                --- In pcgen@y..., mocha@m... wrote:
                > We've talked about a currency system, and it definitely will get
                > done, just not for the 2.0.0 release. We'll let you define which
                > currency is the 'standard', and the 'gold' field in the Items tab
                > will be tied to how many of those coins you have. All the other
                > coins will have a cost associated with them, which will give us an
                > exchange rate. Our thinking was to do this as equipment, but in
                > thinking about this I realize that the coins would then show up in
                > the Equipment lists on the charactersheets, which may not be
                desired
                > behavior. You could also display them in a separate 'wealth'
                section
                > by using the EQTYPE.Coins token, but maybe breaking them out of
                > equipment into a Wealth object would be a better implementation.
                > Anyway, the idea is pretty much there, just need to work out the
                > kinks. :)
                >
                > -Bryan
                >
                > --- In pcgen@y..., Lonestar <Lonestar@l...> wrote:
                > > kyc> I'd also like to address the gold issue. If you go under
                the
                > misc.
                > > kyc> tab in the program and put in the amount of gold, silver,
                > copper, or
                > > kyc> platinum peices the person in the party has it shows up on
                the
                > ROG
                > > kyc> sheet under gold!
                > >
                > > I think currency support is supposed to be on the to-do list.
                > > It should be possible to have a self defined currency system for
                > each
                > > campaign (region?).
                > > In the Forgotten Realms it is:
                > > 1 platinum = 10 gold = 100 silver = 1000 copper coins
                > > In Waterdeep thers the toal (a square brass coin with a central
                > hole,
                > > worth 2gp) and the harbor moon (a flat crescent platinum with a
                > > central hole and an electrum inlay, worth 50 gp in Waterdeep and
                > 30gp
                > > elsewhere).
                > > Then there are trade bars of silver or gold in different weights
                (1
                > to
                > > 10 pounds) and there are some other exotic currencies like the
                Gond
                > > bells (small brass bells. worth 10gp in trade and 20gp in Gond
                > > temples) or the Shaar rings (pierced and polished slices of ivory,
                > > worth 3gp each) plus an assortment of pearls (used by undersea
                > > creatures as currency).
                > >
                > > Ok, thats a rather complex currency system, but it would be great
                if
                > > it would be supported by PCGen ;)
                > >
                > >
                > > Lonestar mailto:Lonestar@l...
              • mocha@mcs.net
                I see... I think someone already mentioned that this would cause potential problems for Feats like Skill Focus. I am planning on putting in PCGen the ability
                Message 7 of 26 , Jun 6, 2001
                  I see... I think someone already mentioned that this would cause
                  potential problems for Feats like Skill Focus. I am planning on
                  putting in PCGen the ability to 'collapse' skills. This has been a
                  long-standing request... basically some skills are related and you
                  don't necessarily always want to see all of them listed. The Filters
                  in PCGen 2.0 get you part of the way since you can pick if you want
                  to see Class skills, Cross-Class, Untrained or Exclusive. But to
                  collapse all the Knowledge skills into one row is also on the board.
                  It won't make the initial release - but you'll see the disabled
                  checkbox which will make it happen at some point... If you really
                  want to select a Knowledge Skill you can uncollapse the skill view,
                  if you want to collapse the hundred billion Knowledge, Craft and
                  Profession skills, just click on the checkbox. It should make
                  naviagating the skill list a lot easier.

                  -Bryan

                  --- In pcgen@y..., "Damian" <westfam@a...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I don't follow your question... I remember discussing a feature
                  > recently where we talked about adding text to any kind of object -
                  is
                  > that what you're referring to? That'll be in the feature request
                  > list, but it won't be in 2.0.0. The new version will be quite like
                  > PCGen 1.4 in terms of what it can handle - it's mostly a gui
                  facelift
                  > and the ability to run on non-Windows OSes that's driving the
                  initial
                  > release.
                  >
                  > For instanc you could select Craft, and put "automobile" as the
                  type.
                • mocha@mcs.net
                  I think what I ll do is keep wealth (like coins, gems, etc.) in the equipment list to keep purchasing/selling simple. When you produce a character sheet I ll
                  Message 8 of 26 , Jun 6, 2001
                    I think what I'll do is keep wealth (like coins, gems, etc.) in the
                    equipment list to keep purchasing/selling simple. When you produce a
                    character sheet I'll strip those items out of the equipment list and
                    put them in a separate list with a new token to output them. When
                    the charactersheet is done I'll put them back in the equipment list.
                    I might be able to get this done before the release of 2.0... but I'm
                    not sure.

                    -Bryan

                    --- In pcgen@y..., maggard@a... wrote:
                    > A seperate area for Wealth would allow the gems, precious metals,
                    > etc. to be in one area. And equipment becomes the tools to do your
                    > job.
                    >
                    > --- In pcgen@y..., mocha@m... wrote:
                    > > We've talked about a currency system, and it definitely will get
                    > > done, just not for the 2.0.0 release. We'll let you define which
                    > > currency is the 'standard', and the 'gold' field in the Items tab
                    > > will be tied to how many of those coins you have. All the other
                    > > coins will have a cost associated with them, which will give us
                    an
                    > > exchange rate. Our thinking was to do this as equipment, but in
                    > > thinking about this I realize that the coins would then show up
                    in
                    > > the Equipment lists on the charactersheets, which may not be
                    > desired
                    > > behavior. You could also display them in a separate 'wealth'
                    > section
                    > > by using the EQTYPE.Coins token, but maybe breaking them out of
                    > > equipment into a Wealth object would be a better implementation.
                    > > Anyway, the idea is pretty much there, just need to work out the
                    > > kinks. :)
                    > >
                    > > -Bryan
                    > >
                    > > --- In pcgen@y..., Lonestar <Lonestar@l...> wrote:
                    > > > kyc> I'd also like to address the gold issue. If you go under
                    > the
                    > > misc.
                    > > > kyc> tab in the program and put in the amount of gold, silver,
                    > > copper, or
                    > > > kyc> platinum peices the person in the party has it shows up on
                    > the
                    > > ROG
                    > > > kyc> sheet under gold!
                    > > >
                    > > > I think currency support is supposed to be on the to-do list.
                    > > > It should be possible to have a self defined currency system
                    for
                    > > each
                    > > > campaign (region?).
                    > > > In the Forgotten Realms it is:
                    > > > 1 platinum = 10 gold = 100 silver = 1000 copper coins
                    > > > In Waterdeep thers the toal (a square brass coin with a central
                    > > hole,
                    > > > worth 2gp) and the harbor moon (a flat crescent platinum with a
                    > > > central hole and an electrum inlay, worth 50 gp in Waterdeep
                    and
                    > > 30gp
                    > > > elsewhere).
                    > > > Then there are trade bars of silver or gold in different
                    weights
                    > (1
                    > > to
                    > > > 10 pounds) and there are some other exotic currencies like the
                    > Gond
                    > > > bells (small brass bells. worth 10gp in trade and 20gp in Gond
                    > > > temples) or the Shaar rings (pierced and polished slices of
                    ivory,
                    > > > worth 3gp each) plus an assortment of pearls (used by undersea
                    > > > creatures as currency).
                    > > >
                    > > > Ok, thats a rather complex currency system, but it would be
                    great
                    > if
                    > > > it would be supported by PCGen ;)
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Lonestar mailto:Lonestar@l...
                  • maggard@aztec.asu.edu
                    Any chance of taking this one step further so you can collaps different levels of each skills? e.g. + Craft Skills - Knowledge Skills + A - D + E - H + I - L +
                    Message 9 of 26 , Jun 6, 2001
                      Any chance of taking this one step further so you can collaps
                      different levels of each skills?
                      e.g.
                      + Craft Skills
                      - Knowledge Skills
                      + A - D
                      + E - H
                      + I - L
                      + M - p
                      + Q - T
                      + U - Z
                      + Profession Skills


                      --- In pcgen@y..., mocha@m... wrote:
                      > I see... I think someone already mentioned that this would cause
                      > potential problems for Feats like Skill Focus. I am planning on
                      > putting in PCGen the ability to 'collapse' skills. This has been a
                      > long-standing request... basically some skills are related and you
                      > don't necessarily always want to see all of them listed. The
                      Filters
                      > in PCGen 2.0 get you part of the way since you can pick if you want
                      > to see Class skills, Cross-Class, Untrained or Exclusive. But to
                      > collapse all the Knowledge skills into one row is also on the
                      board.
                      > It won't make the initial release - but you'll see the disabled
                      > checkbox which will make it happen at some point... If you really
                      > want to select a Knowledge Skill you can uncollapse the skill view,
                      > if you want to collapse the hundred billion Knowledge, Craft and
                      > Profession skills, just click on the checkbox. It should make
                      > naviagating the skill list a lot easier.
                      >
                      > -Bryan
                    • Chris Wachal
                      ... have ... feat ... any ... displayed. ... of ... to ... I agree, however, I like to be able to see the feats I currently have in a quick list so that I can
                      Message 10 of 26 , Jun 6, 2001
                        > The feats tab looks very different - most tabs (feats included) are
                        > dominated by a table displaying all the relevant info. For feats
                        > this means whether or not you qualify for it, it's name, how you
                        have
                        > it (virtual, no, yes), any pre-requisites, it's description and
                        > source file. The options (virtual, yes, no) is actually a button,
                        > and by clicking on the button you're selecting/de-selecting the
                        feat
                        > (any choices related to it are then presented). You can sort by
                        any
                        > column in the table (same for all tables in PCGen except for the
                        > stats table) and you can even filter out which feats are
                        displayed.
                        > Our API will be open, so your friend would be able to construct his
                        > own interface if he wanted to. A largely drag-and-drop type
                        > interface would certainly be a good choice, but I like the amount
                        of
                        > info you can provide in a table. It also gives you more sorting
                        > options than you'd have in a drag-n-drop solution. Just comes down
                        to
                        > preferences.
                        >

                        I agree, however, I like to be able to see the feats I currently have
                        in a quick list so that I can see "I've spend 2 feats on toughness, I
                        already have power attack, hmm...I guess I could take cleave" and
                        then search for the feat in the list.

                        Also, being able to quickly bypass feats that I can not take would be
                        handy, either being able to filter them out or make them greyed out,
                        it is not easy to see the * beside it.


                        > All tables (minus one) will be sortable by every column, so that
                        > request is already handled.:) I have big plans on how to change
                        the
                        > equipping functionality, but we just didn't have time to get that
                        in
                        > this initial release. The way I want to handle it is via a drag-n-
                        > drop type interface which is very intuitive - I also plan on
                        handling
                        > putting stuff in containers all in the same interface... so we'll
                        get
                        > there, just not in 2.0.0 (maybe 2.0.1, but we'll see...) :)
                        >

                        I'm glad to hear this. This should all work out good. I do think
                        that the feature of Master Tools to set up "Sets" of equipment for
                        things like "what are my pluses with 2 weapons", "what about with a
                        weapon and a shield?".

                        If the equipment section isn't changing in the next version, could
                        you at least add a button to add one to the currently selected
                        equipment? Also, supporting shield proficiencies would be handy.


                        > I take it you like drag-n-drop? :) My preference is definitely on
                        > the table side. Technically everyone has all skills (except
                        > exclusive ones) because ranks are really just modifiers, whereas
                        drag-
                        > n-drop would indicate that you don't have the skill at all unless
                        you
                        > allocate at least one skill-point to it. I like the table
                        > presentation because I can display in one column your total,
                        > modifiers, ranks and whatnot and you can sort on any of them. You
                        > can also use a filter to filter on just class-skills, cross-class
                        > skills, exclusive or untrained. I think you'll like it. :)
                        >

                        That is technically incorrect. All players have all the untrained
                        skills, however that is less than half the list. You need to have at
                        least 1 rank in a trained skill to be able to use that skill.

                        Having a list of available skills and ones you have access to would
                        be handy. Maybe start the skill list of skills you already have with
                        all of the untrained skills. This way newbies can see "Oh, I already
                        have swim at 4 total because I have an 18 strength, but I can't play
                        an instrument yet." I think for newbies, it helps to be able to
                        see "these are all the skills I can use, and these are the ones I
                        can't".

                        For us who play DND a lot, it is easy to just say "I know that any
                        skill that has a cost of 1.0 is a class skill and anyone with a cost
                        of 2.0 is a cross classed skill." Being able to filter the skill
                        list to "untrained, trained, class skills, cross-class skills,
                        exclusive, and all" would be handy.

                        Also, I want to make a request for my friend. He apparently hates
                        clicking an add button, he wants to be able to enter the number of
                        ranks in a field for a skill.


                        > As ROG mentioned - this is a charactersheet issue. The GOLD token
                        > does this, but the wealth issue is about to get a face-lift
                        > afterwhich time ROG will add those tokens to his charactersheet.
                        >

                        I now know about the gold issue. I thought there might have been the
                        capability to put them on the character sheet. I just thought it
                        kind of strange that the program had that capability and it didn't
                        print it.


                        > >
                        > > 5. I would like to request the ability to add a bonus to all
                        skills
                        > > based off of one attribute like "+2 to all charisma based
                        skills".
                        > I
                        > > don't know if you can already do this, however, right now the
                        > circlet
                        > > of persuasion is listed as +2 to charisma instead of +2 to all
                        > > charisma based skills.
                        >
                        > Ah - then it should really be +4 to charisma to give a +2 mod.
                        >

                        That doesn't work correctly, however. A +4 charisma does add the
                        correct modifier to all your skills, however it also adds +2 to your
                        spell DCs if you are a sorcerer and your saves if you are a paladin.
                        The circlet isn't supposed to do that.

                        Right now, I have made a work around on my system by changing the
                        circlet of persuasion to add plus 2 to every charisma based skill
                        individually, however if anyone adds another charisma based skill in
                        a LST file, the circlet would not add to that.

                        A function to do something like "Add 2 to all skills based off of any
                        one stat" would be handy.


                        > I'm certainly glad to hear your suggestions. PCGen wouldn't have
                        > gotten nearly this far if I'd insisted on only using my own ideas -
                        > many people have come up with absolutely fantastic ideas and have
                        > made coding it a lot of fun. I think that part of what makes PCGen
                        > special is that there's such a strong community effort behind it.
                        > Maybe by the time that GenCon rolls around we'll be up-to-date in
                        > terms of supporting all material that's been released by that
                        time.
                        > That's pretty aggresive, but it's certainly worth a shot. :)
                        >
                        > -Bryan

                        No problem, I like trying to help. I take no offense at any
                        criticism of my comments either, they may not be the best way to do
                        things, but I think they will help.

                        Chris Wachal
                      • nezzir@home.com
                        Someone mentioned there was a box to check that would include all skills on the html page. Right now it just shows the ones I have put points in...
                        Message 11 of 26 , Jun 7, 2001
                          Someone mentioned there was a box to check that would include all skills on
                          the html page. Right now it just shows the ones I have put points in...
                        • mocha@mcs.net
                          In the main tab where you select options there s a checkbox for Include Untrained Skills. If you click on this *BEFORE* you import or create a new character,
                          Message 12 of 26 , Jun 8, 2001
                            In the main tab where you select options there's a checkbox for
                            Include Untrained Skills. If you click on this *BEFORE* you import
                            or create a new character, all the untrained skills will be added to
                            your character. In PCGen 2.0.0 this has been expanded slightly to a
                            selection box where you can pick None (meaning no extra skills),
                            Untrained (like clicking on this checkbox) and All (you get
                            everything, trained & exclusive...)

                            -Bryan

                            --- In pcgen@y..., "nezzir@h..." <nezzir@h...> wrote:
                            > Someone mentioned there was a box to check that would include all
                            skills on
                            > the html page. Right now it just shows the ones I have put points
                            in...
                          • Gary
                            There s also items like the luck stone and an ioun stone that give you a +1 to stat checks or a +1 to ALL skill checks. We d rather not have to specify each
                            Message 13 of 26 , Jun 8, 2001
                              There's also items like the luck stone and an ioun stone that give you
                              a +1 to stat checks or a +1 to ALL skill checks. We'd rather not have
                              to specify each skill on those items. I'm sure more will crop up.

                              --- In pcgen@y..., "House Gryphon" <gryps@b...> wrote:
                              > ----- Original Message -----
                              > From: "Chris Wachal" <cwachal@h...>
                              > > Right now, I have made a work around on my system by changing the
                              > > circlet of persuasion to add plus 2 to every charisma based skill
                              > > individually, however if anyone adds another charisma based skill
                              in
                              > > a LST file, the circlet would not add to that.
                              > > A function to do something like "Add 2 to all skills based off of
                              any
                              > > one stat" would be handy.
                              >
                              > Actually, this may be the best way to do it.
                              >
                              > The condition "skills based off a stat" is just one of the many
                              weird and
                              > wonderful combinations that could crop up.
                              >
                              > My view is that:
                              > * It is a waste coding for all the possibilities that may never crop
                              up.
                              > * If there is only one item like this it is easier to modify the
                              item,
                              > rather than add more complex functionality to the software - change
                              the LST
                              > data file isn't too difficult.
                              > * Once a bit of functionality becomes common, then it is worth it to
                              add to
                              > a new version of the software.
                              >
                              > Question: Are there more items like the circlet ??? Most of the
                              others I
                              > can think of off the top of my head add to stats, not skills (eg
                              Potion of
                              > Cat's Grace, Girdle of Giant Strength, etc).
                              >
                              > - Sly
                            • mocha@mcs.net
                              I think BONUS:SKILL|LIST|1 would work for this. At least I think it ought to... let me know if it doesn t! -Bryan ... you ... have ... the ... skill ... skill
                              Message 14 of 26 , Jun 8, 2001
                                I think BONUS:SKILL|LIST|1 would work for this. At least I think it
                                ought to... let me know if it doesn't!

                                -Bryan

                                --- In pcgen@y..., "Gary" <dinthron@y...> wrote:
                                > There's also items like the luck stone and an ioun stone that give
                                you
                                > a +1 to stat checks or a +1 to ALL skill checks. We'd rather not
                                have
                                > to specify each skill on those items. I'm sure more will crop up.
                                >
                                > --- In pcgen@y..., "House Gryphon" <gryps@b...> wrote:
                                > > ----- Original Message -----
                                > > From: "Chris Wachal" <cwachal@h...>
                                > > > Right now, I have made a work around on my system by changing
                                the
                                > > > circlet of persuasion to add plus 2 to every charisma based
                                skill
                                > > > individually, however if anyone adds another charisma based
                                skill
                                > in
                                > > > a LST file, the circlet would not add to that.
                                > > > A function to do something like "Add 2 to all skills based off
                                of
                                > any
                                > > > one stat" would be handy.
                                > >
                                > > Actually, this may be the best way to do it.
                                > >
                                > > The condition "skills based off a stat" is just one of the many
                                > weird and
                                > > wonderful combinations that could crop up.
                                > >
                                > > My view is that:
                                > > * It is a waste coding for all the possibilities that may never
                                crop
                                > up.
                                > > * If there is only one item like this it is easier to modify the
                                > item,
                                > > rather than add more complex functionality to the software -
                                change
                                > the LST
                                > > data file isn't too difficult.
                                > > * Once a bit of functionality becomes common, then it is worth it
                                to
                                > add to
                                > > a new version of the software.
                                > >
                                > > Question: Are there more items like the circlet ??? Most of the
                                > others I
                                > > can think of off the top of my head add to stats, not skills (eg
                                > Potion of
                                > > Cat's Grace, Girdle of Giant Strength, etc).
                                > >
                                > > - Sly
                              • john.sussenberger@libertymutual.com
                                Even more reason to have this coded :) Then I can make cool magic items that increase your Charisma skillz!! ... From: Gary [mailto:dinthron@yahoo.com] Sent:
                                Message 15 of 26 , Jun 8, 2001
                                  Even more reason to have this coded :)
                                   
                                  Then I can make cool magic items that increase your Charisma skillz!!
                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: Gary [mailto:dinthron@...]
                                  Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 2:01 PM
                                  To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: [pcgen] Re: Magic items that modify skills

                                  There's also items like the luck stone and an ioun stone that give you
                                  a +1 to stat checks or a +1 to ALL skill checks.  We'd rather not have
                                  to specify each skill on those items.  I'm sure more will crop up.

                                  --- In pcgen@y..., "House Gryphon" <gryps@b...> wrote:
                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                  > From: "Chris Wachal" <cwachal@h...>
                                  > > Right now, I have made a work around on my system by changing the
                                  > > circlet of persuasion to add plus 2 to every charisma based skill
                                  > > individually, however if anyone adds another charisma based skill
                                  in
                                  > > a LST file, the circlet would not add to that.
                                  > > A function to do something like "Add 2 to all skills based off of
                                  any
                                  > > one stat" would be handy.
                                  >
                                  > Actually, this may be the best way to do it.
                                  >
                                  > The condition "skills based off a stat" is just one of the many
                                  weird and
                                  > wonderful combinations that could crop up.
                                  >
                                  > My view is that:
                                  > * It is a waste coding for all the possibilities that may never crop
                                  up.
                                  > * If there is only one item like this it is easier to modify the
                                  item,
                                  > rather than add more complex functionality to the software - change
                                  the LST
                                  > data file isn't too difficult.
                                  > * Once a bit of functionality becomes common, then it is worth it to
                                  add to
                                  > a new version of the software.
                                  >
                                  > Question: Are there more items like the circlet ???  Most of the
                                  others I
                                  > can think of off the top of my head add to stats, not skills (eg
                                  Potion of
                                  > Cat's Grace, Girdle of Giant Strength, etc).
                                  >
                                  > - Sly



                                  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                  pcgen-unsubscribe@egroups.com



                                  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                                • mocha@mcs.net
                                  Hm - something like BONUS:SKILL|CHA|1 would be easy to do - what s the likelihood of a skill named STR,DEX,CON,INT,WIS or CHA? That would take almost a whole
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Jun 8, 2001
                                    Hm - something like BONUS:SKILL|CHA|1 would be easy to do - what's
                                    the likelihood of a skill named STR,DEX,CON,INT,WIS or CHA?
                                    That would take almost a whole line of code to implement...

                                    -Bryan

                                    --- In pcgen@y..., john.sussenberger@l... wrote:
                                    > Even more reason to have this coded :)
                                    >
                                    > Then I can make cool magic items that increase your Charisma
                                    skillz!!
                                    >
                                    > -----Original Message-----
                                    > From: Gary [mailto:dinthron@y...]
                                    > Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 2:01 PM
                                    > To: pcgen@y...
                                    > Subject: [pcgen] Re: Magic items that modify skills
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > There's also items like the luck stone and an ioun stone that give
                                    you
                                    > a +1 to stat checks or a +1 to ALL skill checks. We'd rather not
                                    have
                                    > to specify each skill on those items. I'm sure more will crop up.
                                    >
                                    > --- In pcgen@y..., "House Gryphon" <gryps@b...> wrote:
                                    > > ----- Original Message -----
                                    > > From: "Chris Wachal" <cwachal@h...>
                                    > > > Right now, I have made a work around on my system by changing
                                    the
                                    > > > circlet of persuasion to add plus 2 to every charisma based
                                    skill
                                    > > > individually, however if anyone adds another charisma based
                                    skill
                                    > in
                                    > > > a LST file, the circlet would not add to that.
                                    > > > A function to do something like "Add 2 to all skills based off
                                    of
                                    > any
                                    > > > one stat" would be handy.
                                    > >
                                    > > Actually, this may be the best way to do it.
                                    > >
                                    > > The condition "skills based off a stat" is just one of the many
                                    > weird and
                                    > > wonderful combinations that could crop up.
                                    > >
                                    > > My view is that:
                                    > > * It is a waste coding for all the possibilities that may never
                                    crop
                                    > up.
                                    > > * If there is only one item like this it is easier to modify the
                                    > item,
                                    > > rather than add more complex functionality to the software -
                                    change
                                    > the LST
                                    > > data file isn't too difficult.
                                    > > * Once a bit of functionality becomes common, then it is worth it
                                    to
                                    > add to
                                    > > a new version of the software.
                                    > >
                                    > > Question: Are there more items like the circlet ??? Most of the
                                    > others I
                                    > > can think of off the top of my head add to stats, not skills (eg
                                    > Potion of
                                    > > Cat's Grace, Girdle of Giant Strength, etc).
                                    > >
                                    > > - Sly
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                    >
                                    >
                                    <http://rd.yahoo.com/M=206662.1458837.3039162.908943/D=egroupmail/S=17
                                    000000
                                    > 01:N/A=682980/*http://altfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/1114-3934-1039-0?
                                    mpt=99202
                                    > 3268> Check out great fares at Orbitz!
                                    >
                                    > <http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?
                                    M=206662.1458837.3039162.908943/D=egroupmail
                                    > /S=1700000001:N/A=682980/rand=413493671>
                                    >
                                    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                    > pcgen-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
                                    > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
                                  • Gary
                                    I tried this, and it didn t work. So I m letting you know. Ioun Stone (Pale green) TYPE:Magic Item.Wonderous Cost:20000 WT:0
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Jun 16, 2001
                                      I tried this, and it didn't work. So I'm letting you know.

                                      Ioun Stone (Pale green) TYPE:Magic Item.Wonderous Cost:20000
                                      WT:0 BONUS:CHECKS|Fortitude,Willpower,Reflex|1
                                      BONUS:WEAPON|TOHIT|1 BONUS:WEAPONPROF=Unarmed Attack|TOHIT|1
                                      BONUS:SKILL|LIST|1

                                      The description says it gives +1 bonus to attacks, saving throws and
                                      skill checks.

                                      --- In pcgen@y..., mocha@m... wrote:
                                      > I think BONUS:SKILL|LIST|1 would work for this. At least I think it
                                      > ought to... let me know if it doesn't!
                                      >
                                      > -Bryan
                                      >
                                      > --- In pcgen@y..., "Gary" <dinthron@y...> wrote:
                                      > > There's also items like the luck stone and an ioun stone that give
                                      > you
                                      > > a +1 to stat checks or a +1 to ALL skill checks. We'd rather not
                                      > have
                                      > > to specify each skill on those items. I'm sure more will crop up.
                                      > >
                                      > > --- In pcgen@y..., "House Gryphon" <gryps@b...> wrote:
                                      > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                      > > > From: "Chris Wachal" <cwachal@h...>
                                      > > > > Right now, I have made a work around on my system by changing
                                      > the
                                      > > > > circlet of persuasion to add plus 2 to every charisma based
                                      > skill
                                      > > > > individually, however if anyone adds another charisma based
                                      > skill
                                      > > in
                                      > > > > a LST file, the circlet would not add to that.
                                      > > > > A function to do something like "Add 2 to all skills based off
                                      > of
                                      > > any
                                      > > > > one stat" would be handy.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Actually, this may be the best way to do it.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > The condition "skills based off a stat" is just one of the many
                                      > > weird and
                                      > > > wonderful combinations that could crop up.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > My view is that:
                                      > > > * It is a waste coding for all the possibilities that may never
                                      > crop
                                      > > up.
                                      > > > * If there is only one item like this it is easier to modify the
                                      > > item,
                                      > > > rather than add more complex functionality to the software -
                                      > change
                                      > > the LST
                                      > > > data file isn't too difficult.
                                      > > > * Once a bit of functionality becomes common, then it is worth
                                      it
                                      > to
                                      > > add to
                                      > > > a new version of the software.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Question: Are there more items like the circlet ??? Most of the
                                      > > others I
                                      > > > can think of off the top of my head add to stats, not skills (eg
                                      > > Potion of
                                      > > > Cat's Grace, Girdle of Giant Strength, etc).
                                      > > >
                                      > > > - Sly
                                    • Brass Tilde
                                      ... _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
                                      Message 18 of 26 , Jun 16, 2001
                                        > -----Original Message-----
                                        > From: Gary [mailto:dinthron@...]
                                        >
                                        > I tried this, and it didn't work. So I'm letting you know.
                                        >
                                        > Ioun Stone (Pale green) TYPE:Magic Item.Wonderous Cost:20000
                                        > WT:0 BONUS:CHECKS|Fortitude,Willpower,Reflex|1
                                        > BONUS:WEAPON|TOHIT|1 BONUS:WEAPONPROF=Unarmed Attack|TOHIT|1
                                        > BONUS:SKILL|LIST|1
                                        >

                                        This bug has been entered at the SourceForge site as bug report #433808.

                                        You may access the SourceForge bug tracking page at:
                                        https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?group_id=25576&atid=384719

                                        _________________________________________________________
                                        Do You Yahoo!?
                                        Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com
                                      • House Gryphon
                                        ... From: Chris Wachal ... Actually, this may be the best way to do it. The condition skills based off a stat is just one of the many
                                        Message 19 of 26 , Jun 23, 2001
                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                          From: "Chris Wachal" <cwachal@...>
                                          > Right now, I have made a work around on my system by changing the
                                          > circlet of persuasion to add plus 2 to every charisma based skill
                                          > individually, however if anyone adds another charisma based skill in
                                          > a LST file, the circlet would not add to that.
                                          > A function to do something like "Add 2 to all skills based off of any
                                          > one stat" would be handy.

                                          Actually, this may be the best way to do it.

                                          The condition "skills based off a stat" is just one of the many weird and
                                          wonderful combinations that could crop up.

                                          My view is that:
                                          * It is a waste coding for all the possibilities that may never crop up.
                                          * If there is only one item like this it is easier to modify the item,
                                          rather than add more complex functionality to the software - change the LST
                                          data file isn't too difficult.
                                          * Once a bit of functionality becomes common, then it is worth it to add to
                                          a new version of the software.

                                          Question: Are there more items like the circlet ??? Most of the others I
                                          can think of off the top of my head add to stats, not skills (eg Potion of
                                          Cat's Grace, Girdle of Giant Strength, etc).

                                          - Sly
                                        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.