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Re: The Problems with PCGen and Solutions?

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  • kmaxx93749@yahoo.com
    I d also like to address the gold issue. If you go under the misc. tab in the program and put in the amount of gold, silver, copper, or platinum peices the
    Message 1 of 26 , Jun 3, 2001
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      I'd also like to address the gold issue. If you go under the misc.
      tab in the program and put in the amount of gold, silver, copper, or
      platinum peices the person in the party has it shows up on the ROG
      sheet under gold!

      --- In pcgen@y..., "Richard O'Doherty-Gregg" <OdGregg@b...> wrote:
      > I'll Just address a couple of your points.
      >
      >
      >
      > The gold doesn't show up on the ROG sheet because I don't use the
      gold
      > field (you can add it wherever you want on the sheet by inserting
      the
      > |GOLD| tag I believe). I was waiting to add a proper coins section
      when
      > we have support for cp, sp, gp and pp sometime in the future. And
      the
      > amount of gold that the characters in the party that I DM have
      changes
      > so often, they don't actually want it printed on the sheet. I feel
      the
      > sheet should mainly only have stuff on it that doesn't change
      between
      > levels (hence I also don't output what spells the characters have
      > memorized as this also changes regularly). I guess I'm just trying
      to
      > save paper :-)
      >
      >
      >
      > Secondly, it is possible to take the toughness feat more than once.
      Have
      > you tried it out? Create a human character so that it starts with 2
      > feats, and then select toughness. You will find that each time you
      > select toughness it comes up with another window allowing you to
      > allocate more than one feat slot to it (or get feat slots back).
      >
      >
      >
      > Many of the other points you have mentioned (like the drag and drop)
      > will (and have) be experimented with no doubt once the conversion
      has
      > been finished. I know the programmers were playing with that system
      for
      > purchasing items, but it won't make the first release of PCGen2.0
      > though.
      >
      >
      >
      > Oh, and you can sort just about every table in PCGen2.0 as well :-)
      >
      >
      >
      > Personally, I hope that once 2.0 is available, that they
      concentrate on
      > adding more support for customisation (ie. There are quite a few
      > additions needed to support some of the new content, like Defenders
      of
      > the Faith etc) rather than adding fancy interface "features" :-)
      >
      >
      >
      > ROG
      >
      >
      >
      > Richard & Sarah O'Doherty-Gregg
      >
      > 17 Alwyn Rd, Lenah Valley, TAS
      >
      > Australia 7008
      >
      > OdGregg@b...
      >
      >
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: Chris Wachal [mailto:cwachal@h...]
      > Sent: Sunday, 3 June 2001 5:21 AM
      > To: pcgen@y...
      > Subject: [pcgen] The Problems with PCGen and Solutions?
      >
      >
      >
      > Since PCGen was being partially rewritten anyways, I figured that I
      > would give a couple suggestions on features that would make PCGen
      the
      > best program it can be.
      >
      > I finally convinced a programmer friend of mine to try PCGen to
      > generate characters, he liked the Master Tools demo for that. He
      > thinks that this program has so much potential but there are a
      couple
      > things that need to be changed. He says they would be fairly easy
      to
      > repair and said he might be willing to help should you have
      questions
      > as to how to implement these features. What we see as a couple
      major
      > flaws of the program that are limiting its effectiveness are as
      > follows:
      >
      > 1. Feats need to have a screen set up to drag "available feats"
      over
      > to a "chosen feats" section. This will allow you to take any feats
      > more than once, unlike the current system. Each feat will need a
      > descriptor for whether or not it allows mulitple or not.
      >
      > It also allows you to easily see which feats you currently have as
      > well as easily take things like "Weapon Focus: longsword"
      and "Weapon
      > Focus: short sword".
      >
      > 2. You need to be able to sort the equipment by all the
      categories.
      > As well, a system like the feats above where you drag items into
      your
      > inventory. Items could either be set as multiple or not. Multiple
      > items would allow you to buy more than one of something at once as
      be
      > listed as "7 days rations", whereas some items could only be bought
      > one at a time, so you could drag "Short Sword" over to your
      inventory
      > and have one. If you wanted a second one for your offhand, you
      could
      > drag another "Short Sword" over, each one would be listed as
      > different items.
      >
      > You would need a button called add or something so you could select
      a
      > multiple item in your inventory and add 1 to it. So you would drag
      > over "Days of Iron Rations" and it would automatically assign 1 to
      > it, then you could click on it and add more, so you could put it up
      > to 7. This would also enable you to make "groups" of items. For
      > instance, in this same situation, after taking 7 days of rations,
      you
      > could drag another "days of iron rations" over, it would auto
      assign
      > 1 to that one, and then you could add 6 more to it, and therefore
      > have 2 "groups" of 7 days iron rations. This would make it easier
      to
      > marks weeks of rations for instance off your character sheet.
      >
      > This system would enable you to actually equip one short sword in
      > each hand. It could be done by making your equipment into an array.
      >
      > 3. We need to have a similar system as the items for the skills.
      > Drag a skill over when you take it, it would set the skill at 1.0
      or
      > 0.5 if it is cross class. It would also ask you for the
      > specialization when you first move it over. For instance, if you
      > drag "History" over, it would come up with a list of choices for
      > specialization like "local" or "The Dales" or "Waterdeep" or
      > something.
      >
      > 4. The amount of gold you have left after you purchase your
      equipment
      > should print somewhere on the character sheets, it doesn't yet.
      You
      > have to manually enter it into the money section
      >
      > 5. I would like to request the ability to add a bonus to all skills
      > based off of one attribute like "+2 to all charisma based skills".
      I
      > don't know if you can already do this, however, right now the
      circlet
      > of persuasion is listed as +2 to charisma instead of +2 to all
      > charisma based skills.
      >
      > When I say "drag" in these examples, I believe something like the
      > current spell system, where you click on something then click a
      > button to add it would work too.
      >
      > I believe this system would require more information to be stored
      in
      > the character save files themselves. If you are already storing
      more
      > information in the character sheets, would it be possible to store
      > information like the stats on all your weapons, spells, abilities
      of
      > your current levels of classes, etc. on your character save file so
      > you could load it in any copy of PCGen without that copy having the
      > appropriate lst files so you could still view your character and
      > create character sheets, but you wouldn't be able to increase your
      > level in any class that you didn't have the lst files for.
      >
      > I understand that some of it would be a lot of work, however, right
      > now as it stands, you cannot take multiple toughness feats, or
      equip
      > 2 of the same weapons. As well, taking equipment is very difficult
      > right now, at the very least, this needs an "Add" button, so you
      > could select an item and then click the add button to add 1.
      >
      > I hope this helps slightly, you know I've been around a while
      trying
      > to make PCGen better, as I believe it can truly be THE best
      character
      > generator for D20.
      >
      > Chris Wachal
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
      >
      >
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    • Richard O'Doherty-Gregg
      Yes, that s true (and what I do), but I believe Chris was referring to the gold field on the equipment tab which is not included on my character sheet. -ROG
      Message 2 of 26 , Jun 3, 2001
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        Yes, that's true (and what I do), but I believe Chris was referring
        to the gold field on the equipment tab which is not included on my
        character sheet.

        -ROG

        ps. By the way Chris, I hope I didn't offend you with my reply, I was
        just trying to point out how "we" currently do some things in PCGen :-
        ) You're post contained very good comments :-)

        --- In pcgen@y..., kmaxx93749@y... wrote:
        > I'd also like to address the gold issue. If you go under the misc.
        > tab in the program and put in the amount of gold, silver, copper,
        or
        > platinum peices the person in the party has it shows up on the ROG
        > sheet under gold!
        >
        > --- In pcgen@y..., "Richard O'Doherty-Gregg" <OdGregg@b...> wrote:
        > > I'll Just address a couple of your points.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > The gold doesn't show up on the ROG sheet because I don't use the
        > gold
        > > field (you can add it wherever you want on the sheet by inserting
        > the
        > > |GOLD| tag I believe). I was waiting to add a proper coins
        section
        > when
        > > we have support for cp, sp, gp and pp sometime in the future. And
        > the
        > > amount of gold that the characters in the party that I DM have
        > changes
        > > so often, they don't actually want it printed on the sheet. I
        feel
        > the
        > > sheet should mainly only have stuff on it that doesn't change
        > between
        > > levels (hence I also don't output what spells the characters have
        > > memorized as this also changes regularly). I guess I'm just
        trying
        > to
        > > save paper :-)
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Secondly, it is possible to take the toughness feat more than
        once.
        > Have
        > > you tried it out? Create a human character so that it starts with
        2
        > > feats, and then select toughness. You will find that each time you
        > > select toughness it comes up with another window allowing you to
        > > allocate more than one feat slot to it (or get feat slots back).
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Many of the other points you have mentioned (like the drag and
        drop)
        > > will (and have) be experimented with no doubt once the conversion
        > has
        > > been finished. I know the programmers were playing with that
        system
        > for
        > > purchasing items, but it won't make the first release of PCGen2.0
        > > though.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Oh, and you can sort just about every table in PCGen2.0 as well :-
        )
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Personally, I hope that once 2.0 is available, that they
        > concentrate on
        > > adding more support for customisation (ie. There are quite a few
        > > additions needed to support some of the new content, like
        Defenders
        > of
        > > the Faith etc) rather than adding fancy interface "features" :-)
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ROG
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Richard & Sarah O'Doherty-Gregg
        > >
        > > 17 Alwyn Rd, Lenah Valley, TAS
        > >
        > > Australia 7008
        > >
        > > OdGregg@b...
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > -----Original Message-----
        > > From: Chris Wachal [mailto:cwachal@h...]
        > > Sent: Sunday, 3 June 2001 5:21 AM
        > > To: pcgen@y...
        > > Subject: [pcgen] The Problems with PCGen and Solutions?
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Since PCGen was being partially rewritten anyways, I figured that
        I
        > > would give a couple suggestions on features that would make PCGen
        > the
        > > best program it can be.
        > >
        > > I finally convinced a programmer friend of mine to try PCGen to
        > > generate characters, he liked the Master Tools demo for that. He
        > > thinks that this program has so much potential but there are a
        > couple
        > > things that need to be changed. He says they would be fairly
        easy
        > to
        > > repair and said he might be willing to help should you have
        > questions
        > > as to how to implement these features. What we see as a couple
        > major
        > > flaws of the program that are limiting its effectiveness are as
        > > follows:
        > >
        > > 1. Feats need to have a screen set up to drag "available feats"
        > over
        > > to a "chosen feats" section. This will allow you to take any
        feats
        > > more than once, unlike the current system. Each feat will need a
        > > descriptor for whether or not it allows mulitple or not.
        > >
        > > It also allows you to easily see which feats you currently have
        as
        > > well as easily take things like "Weapon Focus: longsword"
        > and "Weapon
        > > Focus: short sword".
        > >
        > > 2. You need to be able to sort the equipment by all the
        > categories.
        > > As well, a system like the feats above where you drag items into
        > your
        > > inventory. Items could either be set as multiple or not.
        Multiple
        > > items would allow you to buy more than one of something at once
        as
        > be
        > > listed as "7 days rations", whereas some items could only be
        bought
        > > one at a time, so you could drag "Short Sword" over to your
        > inventory
        > > and have one. If you wanted a second one for your offhand, you
        > could
        > > drag another "Short Sword" over, each one would be listed as
        > > different items.
        > >
        > > You would need a button called add or something so you could
        select
        > a
        > > multiple item in your inventory and add 1 to it. So you would
        drag
        > > over "Days of Iron Rations" and it would automatically assign 1
        to
        > > it, then you could click on it and add more, so you could put it
        up
        > > to 7. This would also enable you to make "groups" of items. For
        > > instance, in this same situation, after taking 7 days of rations,
        > you
        > > could drag another "days of iron rations" over, it would auto
        > assign
        > > 1 to that one, and then you could add 6 more to it, and therefore
        > > have 2 "groups" of 7 days iron rations. This would make it
        easier
        > to
        > > marks weeks of rations for instance off your character sheet.
        > >
        > > This system would enable you to actually equip one short sword in
        > > each hand. It could be done by making your equipment into an
        array.
        > >
        > > 3. We need to have a similar system as the items for the skills.
        > > Drag a skill over when you take it, it would set the skill at 1.0
        > or
        > > 0.5 if it is cross class. It would also ask you for the
        > > specialization when you first move it over. For instance, if you
        > > drag "History" over, it would come up with a list of choices for
        > > specialization like "local" or "The Dales" or "Waterdeep" or
        > > something.
        > >
        > > 4. The amount of gold you have left after you purchase your
        > equipment
        > > should print somewhere on the character sheets, it doesn't yet.
        > You
        > > have to manually enter it into the money section
        > >
        > > 5. I would like to request the ability to add a bonus to all
        skills
        > > based off of one attribute like "+2 to all charisma based
        skills".
        > I
        > > don't know if you can already do this, however, right now the
        > circlet
        > > of persuasion is listed as +2 to charisma instead of +2 to all
        > > charisma based skills.
        > >
        > > When I say "drag" in these examples, I believe something like the
        > > current spell system, where you click on something then click a
        > > button to add it would work too.
        > >
        > > I believe this system would require more information to be stored
        > in
        > > the character save files themselves. If you are already storing
        > more
        > > information in the character sheets, would it be possible to
        store
        > > information like the stats on all your weapons, spells, abilities
        > of
        > > your current levels of classes, etc. on your character save file
        so
        > > you could load it in any copy of PCGen without that copy having
        the
        > > appropriate lst files so you could still view your character and
        > > create character sheets, but you wouldn't be able to increase
        your
        > > level in any class that you didn't have the lst files for.
        > >
        > > I understand that some of it would be a lot of work, however,
        right
        > > now as it stands, you cannot take multiple toughness feats, or
        > equip
        > > 2 of the same weapons. As well, taking equipment is very
        difficult
        > > right now, at the very least, this needs an "Add" button, so you
        > > could select an item and then click the add button to add 1.
        > >
        > > I hope this helps slightly, you know I've been around a while
        > trying
        > > to make PCGen better, as I believe it can truly be THE best
        > character
        > > generator for D20.
        > >
        > > Chris Wachal
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
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        > 00
        > > 000001:N/A=682980/*http:/altfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/1114-3934-
        1039-
        > 0?mp
        > > t=991509679> Check out great fares at Orbitz!
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        > M=206662.1458837.3039162.908943/D=egroup
        > > mail/S=1700000001:N/A=682980/rand=148818119>
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        > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.
      • Lonestar
        kyc I d also like to address the gold issue. If you go under the misc. kyc tab in the program and put in the amount of gold, silver, copper, or kyc
        Message 3 of 26 , Jun 3, 2001
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          kyc> I'd also like to address the gold issue. If you go under the misc.
          kyc> tab in the program and put in the amount of gold, silver, copper, or
          kyc> platinum peices the person in the party has it shows up on the ROG
          kyc> sheet under gold!

          I think currency support is supposed to be on the to-do list.
          It should be possible to have a self defined currency system for each
          campaign (region?).
          In the Forgotten Realms it is:
          1 platinum = 10 gold = 100 silver = 1000 copper coins
          In Waterdeep thers the toal (a square brass coin with a central hole,
          worth 2gp) and the harbor moon (a flat crescent platinum with a
          central hole and an electrum inlay, worth 50 gp in Waterdeep and 30gp
          elsewhere).
          Then there are trade bars of silver or gold in different weights (1 to
          10 pounds) and there are some other exotic currencies like the Gond
          bells (small brass bells. worth 10gp in trade and 20gp in Gond
          temples) or the Shaar rings (pierced and polished slices of ivory,
          worth 3gp each) plus an assortment of pearls (used by undersea
          creatures as currency).

          Ok, thats a rather complex currency system, but it would be great if
          it would be supported by PCGen ;)


          Lonestar mailto:Lonestar@...
        • mocha@mcs.net
          We ve talked about a currency system, and it definitely will get done, just not for the 2.0.0 release. We ll let you define which currency is the standard ,
          Message 4 of 26 , Jun 4, 2001
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            We've talked about a currency system, and it definitely will get
            done, just not for the 2.0.0 release. We'll let you define which
            currency is the 'standard', and the 'gold' field in the Items tab
            will be tied to how many of those coins you have. All the other
            coins will have a cost associated with them, which will give us an
            exchange rate. Our thinking was to do this as equipment, but in
            thinking about this I realize that the coins would then show up in
            the Equipment lists on the charactersheets, which may not be desired
            behavior. You could also display them in a separate 'wealth' section
            by using the EQTYPE.Coins token, but maybe breaking them out of
            equipment into a Wealth object would be a better implementation.
            Anyway, the idea is pretty much there, just need to work out the
            kinks. :)

            -Bryan

            --- In pcgen@y..., Lonestar <Lonestar@l...> wrote:
            > kyc> I'd also like to address the gold issue. If you go under the
            misc.
            > kyc> tab in the program and put in the amount of gold, silver,
            copper, or
            > kyc> platinum peices the person in the party has it shows up on the
            ROG
            > kyc> sheet under gold!
            >
            > I think currency support is supposed to be on the to-do list.
            > It should be possible to have a self defined currency system for
            each
            > campaign (region?).
            > In the Forgotten Realms it is:
            > 1 platinum = 10 gold = 100 silver = 1000 copper coins
            > In Waterdeep thers the toal (a square brass coin with a central
            hole,
            > worth 2gp) and the harbor moon (a flat crescent platinum with a
            > central hole and an electrum inlay, worth 50 gp in Waterdeep and
            30gp
            > elsewhere).
            > Then there are trade bars of silver or gold in different weights (1
            to
            > 10 pounds) and there are some other exotic currencies like the Gond
            > bells (small brass bells. worth 10gp in trade and 20gp in Gond
            > temples) or the Shaar rings (pierced and polished slices of ivory,
            > worth 3gp each) plus an assortment of pearls (used by undersea
            > creatures as currency).
            >
            > Ok, thats a rather complex currency system, but it would be great if
            > it would be supported by PCGen ;)
            >
            >
            > Lonestar mailto:Lonestar@l...
          • mocha@mcs.net
            ... the ... Hey - I m always open to ideas! :) ... couple ... to ... questions ... major ... over ... and Weapon ... The feats tab looks very different - most
            Message 5 of 26 , Jun 4, 2001
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              --- In pcgen@y..., "Chris Wachal" <cwachal@h...> wrote:
              > Since PCGen was being partially rewritten anyways, I figured that I
              > would give a couple suggestions on features that would make PCGen
              the
              > best program it can be.

              Hey - I'm always open to ideas! :)

              >
              > I finally convinced a programmer friend of mine to try PCGen to
              > generate characters, he liked the Master Tools demo for that. He
              > thinks that this program has so much potential but there are a
              couple
              > things that need to be changed. He says they would be fairly easy
              to
              > repair and said he might be willing to help should you have
              questions
              > as to how to implement these features. What we see as a couple
              major
              > flaws of the program that are limiting its effectiveness are as
              > follows:
              >
              > 1. Feats need to have a screen set up to drag "available feats"
              over
              > to a "chosen feats" section. This will allow you to take any feats
              > more than once, unlike the current system. Each feat will need a
              > descriptor for whether or not it allows mulitple or not.
              >
              > It also allows you to easily see which feats you currently have as
              > well as easily take things like "Weapon Focus: longsword"
              and "Weapon
              > Focus: short sword".

              The feats tab looks very different - most tabs (feats included) are
              dominated by a table displaying all the relevant info. For feats
              this means whether or not you qualify for it, it's name, how you have
              it (virtual, no, yes), any pre-requisites, it's description and
              source file. The options (virtual, yes, no) is actually a button,
              and by clicking on the button you're selecting/de-selecting the feat
              (any choices related to it are then presented). You can sort by any
              column in the table (same for all tables in PCGen except for the
              stats table) and you can even filter out which feats are displayed.
              Our API will be open, so your friend would be able to construct his
              own interface if he wanted to. A largely drag-and-drop type
              interface would certainly be a good choice, but I like the amount of
              info you can provide in a table. It also gives you more sorting
              options than you'd have in a drag-n-drop solution. Just comes down to
              preferences.

              >
              > 2. You need to be able to sort the equipment by all the
              categories.
              > As well, a system like the feats above where you drag items into
              your
              > inventory. Items could either be set as multiple or not. Multiple
              > items would allow you to buy more than one of something at once as
              be
              > listed as "7 days rations", whereas some items could only be bought
              > one at a time, so you could drag "Short Sword" over to your
              inventory
              > and have one. If you wanted a second one for your offhand, you
              could
              > drag another "Short Sword" over, each one would be listed as
              > different items.
              >
              > You would need a button called add or something so you could select
              a
              > multiple item in your inventory and add 1 to it. So you would drag
              > over "Days of Iron Rations" and it would automatically assign 1 to
              > it, then you could click on it and add more, so you could put it up
              > to 7. This would also enable you to make "groups" of items. For
              > instance, in this same situation, after taking 7 days of rations,
              you
              > could drag another "days of iron rations" over, it would auto
              assign
              > 1 to that one, and then you could add 6 more to it, and therefore
              > have 2 "groups" of 7 days iron rations. This would make it easier
              to
              > marks weeks of rations for instance off your character sheet.
              >
              > This system would enable you to actually equip one short sword in
              > each hand. It could be done by making your equipment into an array.

              All tables (minus one) will be sortable by every column, so that
              request is already handled.:) I have big plans on how to change the
              equipping functionality, but we just didn't have time to get that in
              this initial release. The way I want to handle it is via a drag-n-
              drop type interface which is very intuitive - I also plan on handling
              putting stuff in containers all in the same interface... so we'll get
              there, just not in 2.0.0 (maybe 2.0.1, but we'll see...) :)

              >
              > 3. We need to have a similar system as the items for the skills.
              > Drag a skill over when you take it, it would set the skill at 1.0
              or
              > 0.5 if it is cross class. It would also ask you for the
              > specialization when you first move it over. For instance, if you
              > drag "History" over, it would come up with a list of choices for
              > specialization like "local" or "The Dales" or "Waterdeep" or
              > something.

              I take it you like drag-n-drop? :) My preference is definitely on
              the table side. Technically everyone has all skills (except
              exclusive ones) because ranks are really just modifiers, whereas drag-
              n-drop would indicate that you don't have the skill at all unless you
              allocate at least one skill-point to it. I like the table
              presentation because I can display in one column your total,
              modifiers, ranks and whatnot and you can sort on any of them. You
              can also use a filter to filter on just class-skills, cross-class
              skills, exclusive or untrained. I think you'll like it. :)

              >
              > 4. The amount of gold you have left after you purchase your
              equipment
              > should print somewhere on the character sheets, it doesn't yet.
              You
              > have to manually enter it into the money section

              As ROG mentioned - this is a charactersheet issue. The GOLD token
              does this, but the wealth issue is about to get a face-lift
              afterwhich time ROG will add those tokens to his charactersheet.

              >
              > 5. I would like to request the ability to add a bonus to all skills
              > based off of one attribute like "+2 to all charisma based skills".
              I
              > don't know if you can already do this, however, right now the
              circlet
              > of persuasion is listed as +2 to charisma instead of +2 to all
              > charisma based skills.

              Ah - then it should really be +4 to charisma to give a +2 mod.

              >
              > When I say "drag" in these examples, I believe something like the
              > current spell system, where you click on something then click a
              > button to add it would work too.

              Our drag-n-drop method for equipping, when completed, will look a lot
              like a file brower. You'll see objects displayed in a hierarchy, with
              containers displayed like a directory. In java this is called a
              JTree - so you can actually click on the object and drag it over the
              container you want to put it in.

              >
              > I believe this system would require more information to be stored
              in
              > the character save files themselves. If you are already storing
              more
              > information in the character sheets, would it be possible to store
              > information like the stats on all your weapons, spells, abilities
              of
              > your current levels of classes, etc. on your character save file so
              > you could load it in any copy of PCGen without that copy having the
              > appropriate lst files so you could still view your character and
              > create character sheets, but you wouldn't be able to increase your
              > level in any class that you didn't have the lst files for.
              >
              > I understand that some of it would be a lot of work, however, right
              > now as it stands, you cannot take multiple toughness feats, or
              equip
              > 2 of the same weapons. As well, taking equipment is very difficult
              > right now, at the very least, this needs an "Add" button, so you
              > could select an item and then click the add button to add 1.
              >
              > I hope this helps slightly, you know I've been around a while
              trying
              > to make PCGen better, as I believe it can truly be THE best
              character
              > generator for D20.

              I'm certainly glad to hear your suggestions. PCGen wouldn't have
              gotten nearly this far if I'd insisted on only using my own ideas -
              many people have come up with absolutely fantastic ideas and have
              made coding it a lot of fun. I think that part of what makes PCGen
              special is that there's such a strong community effort behind it.
              Maybe by the time that GenCon rolls around we'll be up-to-date in
              terms of supporting all material that's been released by that time.
              That's pretty aggresive, but it's certainly worth a shot. :)

              -Bryan

              >
              > Chris Wachal
            • sorrow@talk21.com
              *looks at Bryan s comments on V2.0* Oooooh. Every time someone mentions the new version, it sounds better ;) Can t wait to see this.
              Message 6 of 26 , Jun 4, 2001
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                *looks at Bryan's comments on V2.0*

                Oooooh. Every time someone mentions the new version, it sounds
                better ;)

                Can't wait to see this.
              • Damian
                Lots of stuff below. v Cleverly Disguised As A Responsible Adult, Erin ... From: mocha@mcs.net [mailto:mocha@mcs.net] Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 9:52 AM
                Message 7 of 26 , Jun 4, 2001
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                  Lots of stuff below.
                   

                  v     Cleverly Disguised As A Responsible Adult,

                  Erin

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: mocha@... [mailto:mocha@...]
                  Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 9:52 AM
                  To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [pcgen] Re: The Problems with PCGen and Solutions?

                  --- In pcgen@y..., "Chris Wachal" <cwachal@h...> wrote:
                  > Since PCGen was being partially rewritten anyways, I figured that I
                  > would give a couple suggestions on features that would make PCGen
                  the
                  > best program it can be.

                  Hey - I'm always open to ideas! :)

                  >
                  > I finally convinced a programmer friend of mine to try PCGen to
                  > generate characters, he liked the Master Tools demo for that.  He
                  > thinks that this program has so much potential but there are a
                  couple
                  > things that need to be changed.  He says they would be fairly easy
                  to
                  > repair and said he might be willing to help should you have
                  questions
                  > as to how to implement these features.  What we see as a couple
                  major
                  > flaws of the program that are limiting its effectiveness are as
                  > follows:
                  >
                  > 1. Feats need to have a screen set up to drag "available feats"
                  over
                  > to a "chosen feats" section.  This will allow you to take any feats
                  > more than once, unlike the current system.  Each feat will need a
                  > descriptor for whether or not it allows mulitple or not.
                  >
                  > It also allows you to easily see which feats you currently have as
                  > well as easily take things like "Weapon Focus: longsword"
                  and "Weapon
                  > Focus: short sword".

                  The feats tab looks very different - most tabs (feats included) are
                  dominated by a table displaying all the relevant info.  For feats
                  this means whether or not you qualify for it, it's name, how you have
                  it (virtual, no, yes), any pre-requisites, it's description and
                  source file.  The options (virtual, yes, no) is actually a button,
                  and by clicking on the button you're selecting/de-selecting the feat
                  (any choices related to it are then presented).  You can sort by any
                  column in the table (same for all tables in PCGen except for the
                  stats table) and you can even filter out which feats are displayed. 
                  Our API will be open, so your friend would be able to construct his
                  own interface if he wanted to.  A largely drag-and-drop type
                  interface would certainly be a good choice, but I like the amount of
                  info you can provide in a table.  It also gives you more sorting
                  options than you'd have in a drag-n-drop solution. Just comes down to
                  preferences. 
                   
                  I like the table method too.  I want LOTS of info in my generator.  that's part of the problem i had with the one that came with the Players Handbook. 

                  >
                  > 2. You need to be able to sort the equipment by all the
                  categories. 
                  > As well, a system like the feats above where you drag items into
                  your
                  > inventory.  Items could either be set as multiple or not.  Multiple
                  > items would allow you to buy more than one of something at once as
                  be
                  > listed as "7 days rations", whereas some items could only be bought
                  > one at a time, so you could drag "Short Sword" over to your
                  inventory
                  > and have one.  If you wanted a second one for your offhand, you
                  could
                  > drag another "Short Sword" over, each one would be listed as
                  > different items.
                  >
                  > You would need a button called add or something so you could select
                  a
                  > multiple item in your inventory and add 1 to it.  So you would drag
                  > over "Days of Iron Rations" and it would automatically assign 1 to
                  > it, then you could click on it and add more, so you could put it up
                  > to 7.  This would also enable you to make "groups" of items.  For
                  > instance, in this same situation, after taking 7 days of rations,
                  you
                  > could drag another "days of iron rations" over, it would auto
                  assign
                  > 1 to that one, and then you could add 6 more to it, and therefore
                  > have 2 "groups" of 7 days iron rations.  This would make it easier
                  to
                  > marks weeks of rations for instance off your character sheet.
                  >
                  > This system would enable you to actually equip one short sword in
                  > each hand.  It could be done by making your equipment into an array.

                  All tables (minus one) will be sortable by every column, so that
                  request is already handled.:)  I have big plans on how to change the
                  equipping functionality, but we just didn't have time to get that in
                  this initial release.  The way I want to handle it is via a drag-n-
                  drop type interface which is very intuitive - I also plan on handling
                  putting stuff in containers all in the same interface... so we'll get
                  there, just not in 2.0.0 (maybe 2.0.1, but we'll see...) :) 

                  >
                  > 3. We need to have a similar system as the items for the skills. 
                  > Drag a skill over when you take it, it would set the skill at 1.0
                  or
                  > 0.5 if it is cross class.  It would also ask you for the
                  > specialization when you first move it over.  For instance, if you
                  > drag "History" over, it would come up with a list of choices for
                  > specialization like "local" or "The Dales" or "Waterdeep" or
                  > something.

                  I take it you like drag-n-drop? :)  My preference is definitely on
                  the table side.  Technically everyone has all skills (except
                  exclusive ones) because ranks are really just modifiers, whereas drag-
                  n-drop would indicate that you don't have the skill at all unless you
                  allocate at least one skill-point to it.  I like the table
                  presentation because I can display in one column your total,
                  modifiers, ranks and whatnot and you can sort on any of them.  You
                  can also use a filter to filter on just class-skills, cross-class
                  skills, exclusive or untrained. I think you'll like it. :) 
                   
                  Are we going to have pop up text fields for nonstandard specializations?  Stuff that's not in the books? 

                  >
                  > 4. The amount of gold you have left after you purchase your
                  equipment
                  > should print somewhere on the character sheets, it doesn't yet. 
                  You
                  > have to manually enter it into the money section

                  As ROG mentioned - this is a charactersheet issue.  The GOLD token
                  does this, but the wealth issue is about to get a face-lift
                  afterwhich time ROG will add those tokens to his charactersheet.

                  >
                  > 5. I would like to request the ability to add a bonus to all skills
                  > based off of one attribute like "+2 to all charisma based skills". 
                  I
                  > don't know if you can already do this, however, right now the
                  circlet
                  > of persuasion is listed as +2 to charisma instead of +2 to all
                  > charisma based skills.

                  Ah - then it should really be +4 to charisma to give a +2 mod. 
                   
                  well, +4 to Charisma for purposes of skills.

                  >
                  > When I say "drag" in these examples, I believe something like the
                  > current spell system, where you click on something then click a
                  > button to add it would work too.

                  Our drag-n-drop method for equipping, when completed, will look a lot
                  like a file brower. You'll see objects displayed in a hierarchy, with
                  containers displayed like a directory.  In java this is called a
                  JTree - so you can actually click on the object and drag it over the
                  container you want to put it in.
                   
                  Going the rout of the old Core Rules stuff, eh?  cool, i liked how that worked, and is what i was going to suggest anyway (or did suggest, my minds a little glitchy right now).  Don't forget to allow containers within containers, and you COULD give them a HOME container, for stuff they want to HAVE, but don't carry with them.

                  >
                  > I believe this system would require more information to be stored
                  in
                  > the character save files themselves.  If you are already storing
                  more
                  > information in the character sheets, would it be possible to store
                  > information like the stats on all your weapons, spells, abilities
                  of
                  > your current levels of classes, etc. on your character save file so
                  > you could load it in any copy of PCGen without that copy having the
                  > appropriate lst files so you could still view your character and
                  > create character sheets, but you wouldn't be able to increase your
                  > level in any class that you didn't have the lst files for.
                  >
                  > I understand that some of it would be a lot of work, however, right
                  > now as it stands, you cannot take multiple toughness feats, or
                  equip
                  > 2 of the same weapons.  As well, taking equipment is very difficult
                  > right now, at the very least, this needs an "Add" button, so you
                  > could select an item and then click the add button to add 1.
                  >
                  > I hope this helps slightly, you know I've been around a while
                  trying
                  > to make PCGen better, as I believe it can truly be THE best
                  character
                  > generator for D20.

                  I'm certainly glad to hear your suggestions.  PCGen wouldn't have
                  gotten nearly this far if I'd insisted on only using my own ideas -
                  many people have come up with absolutely fantastic ideas and have
                  made coding it a lot of fun.  I think that part of what makes PCGen
                  special is that there's such a strong community effort behind it. 
                  Maybe by the time that GenCon rolls around we'll be up-to-date in
                  terms of supporting all material that's been released by that time. 
                  That's pretty aggresive, but it's certainly worth a shot. :)
                   
                  Grrrrrr. still pissed that i'm not going to be able to go this year.  I'm already savign up for next year.
                   

                  v     Cleverly Disguised As A Responsible Adult,

                  Erin

                   
                  -Bryan

                  >
                  > Chris Wachal



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                  pcgen-unsubscribe@egroups.com



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                • mocha@mcs.net
                  ... specializations? ... I don t follow your question... I remember discussing a feature recently where we talked about adding text to any kind of object - is
                  Message 8 of 26 , Jun 4, 2001
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                    --- In pcgen@y..., "Damian" <westfam@a...> wrote:
                    > Lots of stuff below.
                    >
                    > v Cleverly Disguised As A Responsible Adult,
                    >
                    > Erin
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: mocha@m... [mailto:mocha@m...]
                    > Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 9:52 AM
                    > To: pcgen@y...
                    > Subject: [pcgen] Re: The Problems with PCGen and Solutions?
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In pcgen@y..., "Chris Wachal" <cwachal@h...> wrote:

                    >
                    > Are we going to have pop up text fields for nonstandard
                    specializations?
                    > Stuff that's not in the books?

                    I don't follow your question... I remember discussing a feature
                    recently where we talked about adding text to any kind of object - is
                    that what you're referring to? That'll be in the feature request
                    list, but it won't be in 2.0.0. The new version will be quite like
                    PCGen 1.4 in terms of what it can handle - it's mostly a gui facelift
                    and the ability to run on non-Windows OSes that's driving the initial
                    release.



                    > >
                    > > When I say "drag" in these examples, I believe something like
                    the
                    > > current spell system, where you click on something then click a
                    > > button to add it would work too.
                    >
                    > Our drag-n-drop method for equipping, when completed, will look a
                    lot
                    > like a file brower. You'll see objects displayed in a hierarchy,
                    with
                    > containers displayed like a directory. In java this is called a
                    > JTree - so you can actually click on the object and drag it over
                    the
                    > container you want to put it in.
                    >
                    > Going the rout of the old Core Rules stuff, eh? cool, i liked
                    how that
                    > worked, and is what i was going to suggest anyway (or did suggest,
                    my minds
                    > a little glitchy right now). Don't forget to allow containers
                    within
                    > containers, and you COULD give them a HOME container, for stuff
                    they want to
                    > HAVE, but don't carry with them.

                    I've never seen the Core Rules, but it's possible the guy who started
                    that work for me got his inspiration from there. I think he wants to
                    treat everything (and throw in body parts as well...) as containers.
                    That way you can put daggers in your cloak, or on your left ankle, or
                    whatever. Containers will definitely be allowed to be nested - but I
                    think we're planning on having it show what they're carrying and how
                    they're carrying it. If we let you pick different modes (say you
                    take items a-g while in a dungeon crawl, but only items a, d & e
                    while in town. That would be messy to determine your encumberance
                    because I wouldn't know where you were and that would impact your
                    speed et al).



                    > I'm certainly glad to hear your suggestions. PCGen wouldn't have
                    > gotten nearly this far if I'd insisted on only using my own
                    ideas -
                    > many people have come up with absolutely fantastic ideas and have
                    > made coding it a lot of fun. I think that part of what makes
                    PCGen
                    > special is that there's such a strong community effort behind it.
                    > Maybe by the time that GenCon rolls around we'll be up-to-date in
                    > terms of supporting all material that's been released by that
                    time.
                    > That's pretty aggresive, but it's certainly worth a shot. :)
                    >
                    > Grrrrrr. still pissed that i'm not going to be able to go this
                    year. I'm
                    > already savign up for next year.

                    I'm hoping to go to GenCon. I've never gone before and this is its
                    last year in Milwaukee. I'd like to go once just to see what the hub-
                    bub is all about. I joke about making a T-Shirt about PCGen just to
                    see if anyone knows what I'm talking about while I there.... ;)

                    -Bryan

                    >
                    > v Cleverly Disguised As A Responsible Adult,
                    >
                    > Erin
                    >
                    >
                    > -Bryan
                    >
                    > >
                    > > Chris Wachal
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                    >
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                    Service.
                  • Damian
                    I don t follow your question... I remember discussing a feature recently where we talked about adding text to any kind of object - is that what you re
                    Message 9 of 26 , Jun 4, 2001
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                      I don't follow your question... I remember discussing a feature
                      recently where we talked about adding text to any kind of object - is
                      that what you're referring to?  That'll be in the feature request
                      list, but it won't be in 2.0.0.  The new version will be quite like
                      PCGen 1.4 in terms of what it can handle - it's mostly a gui facelift
                      and the ability to run on non-Windows OSes that's driving the initial
                      release.
                       
                      For instanc you could select Craft, and put "automobile" as the type. 

                      >   >
                      >   >
                      When I say "drag" in these examples, I believe something like
                      the
                      >   > current spell system, where you click on
                      something then click a
                      >   > button to add it would work
                      too.
                      >
                      >   Our drag-n-drop method for equipping, when
                      completed, will look a
                      lot
                      >   like a file brower. You'll
                      see objects displayed in a hierarchy,
                      with
                      >   containers
                      displayed like a directory.  In java this is called a
                      >  
                      JTree - so you can actually click on the object and drag it over
                      the
                      >   container you want to put it in.
                      >
                      >   Going the rout of the old Core Rules stuff, eh?  cool,
                      i liked
                      how that
                      > worked, and is what i was going to suggest anyway
                      (or did suggest,
                      my minds
                      > a little glitchy right now).  Don't
                      forget to allow containers
                      within
                      > containers, and you COULD give
                      them a HOME container, for stuff
                      they want to
                      > HAVE, but don't carry
                      with them.

                      I've never seen the Core Rules, but it's possible the guy who started
                      that work for me got his inspiration from there.  I think he wants to
                      treat everything (and throw in body parts as well...) as containers.
                      That way you can put daggers in your cloak, or on your left ankle, or
                      whatever. Containers will definitely be allowed to be nested - but I
                      think we're planning on having it show what they're carrying and how
                      they're carrying it.  If we let you pick different modes (say you
                      take items a-g while in a dungeon crawl, but only items a, d & e
                      while in town.  That would be messy to determine your encumberance
                      because I wouldn't know where you were and that would impact your
                      speed et al).



                      >   I'm certainly glad to hear your
                      suggestions.  PCGen wouldn't have
                      >   gotten nearly this
                      far if I'd insisted on only using my own
                      ideas -
                      >   many
                      people have come up with absolutely fantastic ideas and have
                      >  
                      made coding it a lot of fun.  I think that part of what makes
                      PCGen
                      >   special is that there's such a strong community
                      effort behind it.
                      >   Maybe by the time that GenCon rolls around
                      we'll be up-to-date in
                      >   terms of supporting all material
                      that's been released by that
                      time.
                      >   That's pretty
                      aggresive, but it's certainly worth a shot. :)
                      >
                      >  
                      Grrrrrr. still pissed that i'm not going to be able to go this
                      year.  I'm
                      > already savign up for next year.

                      I'm hoping to go to GenCon.  I've never gone before and this is its
                      last year in Milwaukee.  I'd like to go once just to see what the hub-
                      bub is all about.  I joke about making a T-Shirt about PCGen just to
                      see if anyone knows what I'm talking about while I there.... ;)

                      -Bryan
                       2002 is the last year.  i checked the wizards.com schedule.  http://www.wizards.com/gencon/2001/future_gencons.asp
                    • Damian
                      v Cleverly Disguised As A Responsible Adult, Erin ... From: Damian [mailto:westfam@awesomenet.net] Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 6:13 PM To:
                      Message 10 of 26 , Jun 4, 2001
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                        v     Cleverly Disguised As A Responsible Adult,

                        Erin

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Damian [mailto:westfam@...]
                        Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 6:13 PM
                        To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [pcgen] Re: The Problems with PCGen and Solutions?


                        I don't follow your question... I remember discussing a feature
                        recently where we talked about adding text to any kind of object - is
                        that what you're referring to?  That'll be in the feature request
                        list, but it won't be in 2.0.0.  The new version will be quite like
                        PCGen 1.4 in terms of what it can handle - it's mostly a gui facelift
                        and the ability to run on non-Windows OSes that's driving the initial
                        release.
                         
                        For instanc you could select Craft, and put "automobile" as the type.  
                         
                        That is, in addition to the other choices.  you know, have a "blank" choice that will let you type in it, or you can use the pull down.  better explanaion? 
                      • maggard@aztec.asu.edu
                        A seperate area for Wealth would allow the gems, precious metals, etc. to be in one area. And equipment becomes the tools to do your job. ... desired ...
                        Message 11 of 26 , Jun 4, 2001
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                          A seperate area for Wealth would allow the gems, precious metals,
                          etc. to be in one area. And equipment becomes the tools to do your
                          job.

                          --- In pcgen@y..., mocha@m... wrote:
                          > We've talked about a currency system, and it definitely will get
                          > done, just not for the 2.0.0 release. We'll let you define which
                          > currency is the 'standard', and the 'gold' field in the Items tab
                          > will be tied to how many of those coins you have. All the other
                          > coins will have a cost associated with them, which will give us an
                          > exchange rate. Our thinking was to do this as equipment, but in
                          > thinking about this I realize that the coins would then show up in
                          > the Equipment lists on the charactersheets, which may not be
                          desired
                          > behavior. You could also display them in a separate 'wealth'
                          section
                          > by using the EQTYPE.Coins token, but maybe breaking them out of
                          > equipment into a Wealth object would be a better implementation.
                          > Anyway, the idea is pretty much there, just need to work out the
                          > kinks. :)
                          >
                          > -Bryan
                          >
                          > --- In pcgen@y..., Lonestar <Lonestar@l...> wrote:
                          > > kyc> I'd also like to address the gold issue. If you go under
                          the
                          > misc.
                          > > kyc> tab in the program and put in the amount of gold, silver,
                          > copper, or
                          > > kyc> platinum peices the person in the party has it shows up on
                          the
                          > ROG
                          > > kyc> sheet under gold!
                          > >
                          > > I think currency support is supposed to be on the to-do list.
                          > > It should be possible to have a self defined currency system for
                          > each
                          > > campaign (region?).
                          > > In the Forgotten Realms it is:
                          > > 1 platinum = 10 gold = 100 silver = 1000 copper coins
                          > > In Waterdeep thers the toal (a square brass coin with a central
                          > hole,
                          > > worth 2gp) and the harbor moon (a flat crescent platinum with a
                          > > central hole and an electrum inlay, worth 50 gp in Waterdeep and
                          > 30gp
                          > > elsewhere).
                          > > Then there are trade bars of silver or gold in different weights
                          (1
                          > to
                          > > 10 pounds) and there are some other exotic currencies like the
                          Gond
                          > > bells (small brass bells. worth 10gp in trade and 20gp in Gond
                          > > temples) or the Shaar rings (pierced and polished slices of ivory,
                          > > worth 3gp each) plus an assortment of pearls (used by undersea
                          > > creatures as currency).
                          > >
                          > > Ok, thats a rather complex currency system, but it would be great
                          if
                          > > it would be supported by PCGen ;)
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Lonestar mailto:Lonestar@l...
                        • mocha@mcs.net
                          I see... I think someone already mentioned that this would cause potential problems for Feats like Skill Focus. I am planning on putting in PCGen the ability
                          Message 12 of 26 , Jun 6, 2001
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                            I see... I think someone already mentioned that this would cause
                            potential problems for Feats like Skill Focus. I am planning on
                            putting in PCGen the ability to 'collapse' skills. This has been a
                            long-standing request... basically some skills are related and you
                            don't necessarily always want to see all of them listed. The Filters
                            in PCGen 2.0 get you part of the way since you can pick if you want
                            to see Class skills, Cross-Class, Untrained or Exclusive. But to
                            collapse all the Knowledge skills into one row is also on the board.
                            It won't make the initial release - but you'll see the disabled
                            checkbox which will make it happen at some point... If you really
                            want to select a Knowledge Skill you can uncollapse the skill view,
                            if you want to collapse the hundred billion Knowledge, Craft and
                            Profession skills, just click on the checkbox. It should make
                            naviagating the skill list a lot easier.

                            -Bryan

                            --- In pcgen@y..., "Damian" <westfam@a...> wrote:
                            >
                            > I don't follow your question... I remember discussing a feature
                            > recently where we talked about adding text to any kind of object -
                            is
                            > that what you're referring to? That'll be in the feature request
                            > list, but it won't be in 2.0.0. The new version will be quite like
                            > PCGen 1.4 in terms of what it can handle - it's mostly a gui
                            facelift
                            > and the ability to run on non-Windows OSes that's driving the
                            initial
                            > release.
                            >
                            > For instanc you could select Craft, and put "automobile" as the
                            type.
                          • mocha@mcs.net
                            I think what I ll do is keep wealth (like coins, gems, etc.) in the equipment list to keep purchasing/selling simple. When you produce a character sheet I ll
                            Message 13 of 26 , Jun 6, 2001
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                              I think what I'll do is keep wealth (like coins, gems, etc.) in the
                              equipment list to keep purchasing/selling simple. When you produce a
                              character sheet I'll strip those items out of the equipment list and
                              put them in a separate list with a new token to output them. When
                              the charactersheet is done I'll put them back in the equipment list.
                              I might be able to get this done before the release of 2.0... but I'm
                              not sure.

                              -Bryan

                              --- In pcgen@y..., maggard@a... wrote:
                              > A seperate area for Wealth would allow the gems, precious metals,
                              > etc. to be in one area. And equipment becomes the tools to do your
                              > job.
                              >
                              > --- In pcgen@y..., mocha@m... wrote:
                              > > We've talked about a currency system, and it definitely will get
                              > > done, just not for the 2.0.0 release. We'll let you define which
                              > > currency is the 'standard', and the 'gold' field in the Items tab
                              > > will be tied to how many of those coins you have. All the other
                              > > coins will have a cost associated with them, which will give us
                              an
                              > > exchange rate. Our thinking was to do this as equipment, but in
                              > > thinking about this I realize that the coins would then show up
                              in
                              > > the Equipment lists on the charactersheets, which may not be
                              > desired
                              > > behavior. You could also display them in a separate 'wealth'
                              > section
                              > > by using the EQTYPE.Coins token, but maybe breaking them out of
                              > > equipment into a Wealth object would be a better implementation.
                              > > Anyway, the idea is pretty much there, just need to work out the
                              > > kinks. :)
                              > >
                              > > -Bryan
                              > >
                              > > --- In pcgen@y..., Lonestar <Lonestar@l...> wrote:
                              > > > kyc> I'd also like to address the gold issue. If you go under
                              > the
                              > > misc.
                              > > > kyc> tab in the program and put in the amount of gold, silver,
                              > > copper, or
                              > > > kyc> platinum peices the person in the party has it shows up on
                              > the
                              > > ROG
                              > > > kyc> sheet under gold!
                              > > >
                              > > > I think currency support is supposed to be on the to-do list.
                              > > > It should be possible to have a self defined currency system
                              for
                              > > each
                              > > > campaign (region?).
                              > > > In the Forgotten Realms it is:
                              > > > 1 platinum = 10 gold = 100 silver = 1000 copper coins
                              > > > In Waterdeep thers the toal (a square brass coin with a central
                              > > hole,
                              > > > worth 2gp) and the harbor moon (a flat crescent platinum with a
                              > > > central hole and an electrum inlay, worth 50 gp in Waterdeep
                              and
                              > > 30gp
                              > > > elsewhere).
                              > > > Then there are trade bars of silver or gold in different
                              weights
                              > (1
                              > > to
                              > > > 10 pounds) and there are some other exotic currencies like the
                              > Gond
                              > > > bells (small brass bells. worth 10gp in trade and 20gp in Gond
                              > > > temples) or the Shaar rings (pierced and polished slices of
                              ivory,
                              > > > worth 3gp each) plus an assortment of pearls (used by undersea
                              > > > creatures as currency).
                              > > >
                              > > > Ok, thats a rather complex currency system, but it would be
                              great
                              > if
                              > > > it would be supported by PCGen ;)
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > Lonestar mailto:Lonestar@l...
                            • maggard@aztec.asu.edu
                              Any chance of taking this one step further so you can collaps different levels of each skills? e.g. + Craft Skills - Knowledge Skills + A - D + E - H + I - L +
                              Message 14 of 26 , Jun 6, 2001
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                                Any chance of taking this one step further so you can collaps
                                different levels of each skills?
                                e.g.
                                + Craft Skills
                                - Knowledge Skills
                                + A - D
                                + E - H
                                + I - L
                                + M - p
                                + Q - T
                                + U - Z
                                + Profession Skills


                                --- In pcgen@y..., mocha@m... wrote:
                                > I see... I think someone already mentioned that this would cause
                                > potential problems for Feats like Skill Focus. I am planning on
                                > putting in PCGen the ability to 'collapse' skills. This has been a
                                > long-standing request... basically some skills are related and you
                                > don't necessarily always want to see all of them listed. The
                                Filters
                                > in PCGen 2.0 get you part of the way since you can pick if you want
                                > to see Class skills, Cross-Class, Untrained or Exclusive. But to
                                > collapse all the Knowledge skills into one row is also on the
                                board.
                                > It won't make the initial release - but you'll see the disabled
                                > checkbox which will make it happen at some point... If you really
                                > want to select a Knowledge Skill you can uncollapse the skill view,
                                > if you want to collapse the hundred billion Knowledge, Craft and
                                > Profession skills, just click on the checkbox. It should make
                                > naviagating the skill list a lot easier.
                                >
                                > -Bryan
                              • Chris Wachal
                                ... have ... feat ... any ... displayed. ... of ... to ... I agree, however, I like to be able to see the feats I currently have in a quick list so that I can
                                Message 15 of 26 , Jun 6, 2001
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                                  > The feats tab looks very different - most tabs (feats included) are
                                  > dominated by a table displaying all the relevant info. For feats
                                  > this means whether or not you qualify for it, it's name, how you
                                  have
                                  > it (virtual, no, yes), any pre-requisites, it's description and
                                  > source file. The options (virtual, yes, no) is actually a button,
                                  > and by clicking on the button you're selecting/de-selecting the
                                  feat
                                  > (any choices related to it are then presented). You can sort by
                                  any
                                  > column in the table (same for all tables in PCGen except for the
                                  > stats table) and you can even filter out which feats are
                                  displayed.
                                  > Our API will be open, so your friend would be able to construct his
                                  > own interface if he wanted to. A largely drag-and-drop type
                                  > interface would certainly be a good choice, but I like the amount
                                  of
                                  > info you can provide in a table. It also gives you more sorting
                                  > options than you'd have in a drag-n-drop solution. Just comes down
                                  to
                                  > preferences.
                                  >

                                  I agree, however, I like to be able to see the feats I currently have
                                  in a quick list so that I can see "I've spend 2 feats on toughness, I
                                  already have power attack, hmm...I guess I could take cleave" and
                                  then search for the feat in the list.

                                  Also, being able to quickly bypass feats that I can not take would be
                                  handy, either being able to filter them out or make them greyed out,
                                  it is not easy to see the * beside it.


                                  > All tables (minus one) will be sortable by every column, so that
                                  > request is already handled.:) I have big plans on how to change
                                  the
                                  > equipping functionality, but we just didn't have time to get that
                                  in
                                  > this initial release. The way I want to handle it is via a drag-n-
                                  > drop type interface which is very intuitive - I also plan on
                                  handling
                                  > putting stuff in containers all in the same interface... so we'll
                                  get
                                  > there, just not in 2.0.0 (maybe 2.0.1, but we'll see...) :)
                                  >

                                  I'm glad to hear this. This should all work out good. I do think
                                  that the feature of Master Tools to set up "Sets" of equipment for
                                  things like "what are my pluses with 2 weapons", "what about with a
                                  weapon and a shield?".

                                  If the equipment section isn't changing in the next version, could
                                  you at least add a button to add one to the currently selected
                                  equipment? Also, supporting shield proficiencies would be handy.


                                  > I take it you like drag-n-drop? :) My preference is definitely on
                                  > the table side. Technically everyone has all skills (except
                                  > exclusive ones) because ranks are really just modifiers, whereas
                                  drag-
                                  > n-drop would indicate that you don't have the skill at all unless
                                  you
                                  > allocate at least one skill-point to it. I like the table
                                  > presentation because I can display in one column your total,
                                  > modifiers, ranks and whatnot and you can sort on any of them. You
                                  > can also use a filter to filter on just class-skills, cross-class
                                  > skills, exclusive or untrained. I think you'll like it. :)
                                  >

                                  That is technically incorrect. All players have all the untrained
                                  skills, however that is less than half the list. You need to have at
                                  least 1 rank in a trained skill to be able to use that skill.

                                  Having a list of available skills and ones you have access to would
                                  be handy. Maybe start the skill list of skills you already have with
                                  all of the untrained skills. This way newbies can see "Oh, I already
                                  have swim at 4 total because I have an 18 strength, but I can't play
                                  an instrument yet." I think for newbies, it helps to be able to
                                  see "these are all the skills I can use, and these are the ones I
                                  can't".

                                  For us who play DND a lot, it is easy to just say "I know that any
                                  skill that has a cost of 1.0 is a class skill and anyone with a cost
                                  of 2.0 is a cross classed skill." Being able to filter the skill
                                  list to "untrained, trained, class skills, cross-class skills,
                                  exclusive, and all" would be handy.

                                  Also, I want to make a request for my friend. He apparently hates
                                  clicking an add button, he wants to be able to enter the number of
                                  ranks in a field for a skill.


                                  > As ROG mentioned - this is a charactersheet issue. The GOLD token
                                  > does this, but the wealth issue is about to get a face-lift
                                  > afterwhich time ROG will add those tokens to his charactersheet.
                                  >

                                  I now know about the gold issue. I thought there might have been the
                                  capability to put them on the character sheet. I just thought it
                                  kind of strange that the program had that capability and it didn't
                                  print it.


                                  > >
                                  > > 5. I would like to request the ability to add a bonus to all
                                  skills
                                  > > based off of one attribute like "+2 to all charisma based
                                  skills".
                                  > I
                                  > > don't know if you can already do this, however, right now the
                                  > circlet
                                  > > of persuasion is listed as +2 to charisma instead of +2 to all
                                  > > charisma based skills.
                                  >
                                  > Ah - then it should really be +4 to charisma to give a +2 mod.
                                  >

                                  That doesn't work correctly, however. A +4 charisma does add the
                                  correct modifier to all your skills, however it also adds +2 to your
                                  spell DCs if you are a sorcerer and your saves if you are a paladin.
                                  The circlet isn't supposed to do that.

                                  Right now, I have made a work around on my system by changing the
                                  circlet of persuasion to add plus 2 to every charisma based skill
                                  individually, however if anyone adds another charisma based skill in
                                  a LST file, the circlet would not add to that.

                                  A function to do something like "Add 2 to all skills based off of any
                                  one stat" would be handy.


                                  > I'm certainly glad to hear your suggestions. PCGen wouldn't have
                                  > gotten nearly this far if I'd insisted on only using my own ideas -
                                  > many people have come up with absolutely fantastic ideas and have
                                  > made coding it a lot of fun. I think that part of what makes PCGen
                                  > special is that there's such a strong community effort behind it.
                                  > Maybe by the time that GenCon rolls around we'll be up-to-date in
                                  > terms of supporting all material that's been released by that
                                  time.
                                  > That's pretty aggresive, but it's certainly worth a shot. :)
                                  >
                                  > -Bryan

                                  No problem, I like trying to help. I take no offense at any
                                  criticism of my comments either, they may not be the best way to do
                                  things, but I think they will help.

                                  Chris Wachal
                                • nezzir@home.com
                                  Someone mentioned there was a box to check that would include all skills on the html page. Right now it just shows the ones I have put points in...
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Jun 7, 2001
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                                    Someone mentioned there was a box to check that would include all skills on
                                    the html page. Right now it just shows the ones I have put points in...
                                  • mocha@mcs.net
                                    In the main tab where you select options there s a checkbox for Include Untrained Skills. If you click on this *BEFORE* you import or create a new character,
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Jun 8, 2001
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                                      In the main tab where you select options there's a checkbox for
                                      Include Untrained Skills. If you click on this *BEFORE* you import
                                      or create a new character, all the untrained skills will be added to
                                      your character. In PCGen 2.0.0 this has been expanded slightly to a
                                      selection box where you can pick None (meaning no extra skills),
                                      Untrained (like clicking on this checkbox) and All (you get
                                      everything, trained & exclusive...)

                                      -Bryan

                                      --- In pcgen@y..., "nezzir@h..." <nezzir@h...> wrote:
                                      > Someone mentioned there was a box to check that would include all
                                      skills on
                                      > the html page. Right now it just shows the ones I have put points
                                      in...
                                    • Gary
                                      There s also items like the luck stone and an ioun stone that give you a +1 to stat checks or a +1 to ALL skill checks. We d rather not have to specify each
                                      Message 18 of 26 , Jun 8, 2001
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                                        There's also items like the luck stone and an ioun stone that give you
                                        a +1 to stat checks or a +1 to ALL skill checks. We'd rather not have
                                        to specify each skill on those items. I'm sure more will crop up.

                                        --- In pcgen@y..., "House Gryphon" <gryps@b...> wrote:
                                        > ----- Original Message -----
                                        > From: "Chris Wachal" <cwachal@h...>
                                        > > Right now, I have made a work around on my system by changing the
                                        > > circlet of persuasion to add plus 2 to every charisma based skill
                                        > > individually, however if anyone adds another charisma based skill
                                        in
                                        > > a LST file, the circlet would not add to that.
                                        > > A function to do something like "Add 2 to all skills based off of
                                        any
                                        > > one stat" would be handy.
                                        >
                                        > Actually, this may be the best way to do it.
                                        >
                                        > The condition "skills based off a stat" is just one of the many
                                        weird and
                                        > wonderful combinations that could crop up.
                                        >
                                        > My view is that:
                                        > * It is a waste coding for all the possibilities that may never crop
                                        up.
                                        > * If there is only one item like this it is easier to modify the
                                        item,
                                        > rather than add more complex functionality to the software - change
                                        the LST
                                        > data file isn't too difficult.
                                        > * Once a bit of functionality becomes common, then it is worth it to
                                        add to
                                        > a new version of the software.
                                        >
                                        > Question: Are there more items like the circlet ??? Most of the
                                        others I
                                        > can think of off the top of my head add to stats, not skills (eg
                                        Potion of
                                        > Cat's Grace, Girdle of Giant Strength, etc).
                                        >
                                        > - Sly
                                      • mocha@mcs.net
                                        I think BONUS:SKILL|LIST|1 would work for this. At least I think it ought to... let me know if it doesn t! -Bryan ... you ... have ... the ... skill ... skill
                                        Message 19 of 26 , Jun 8, 2001
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                                          I think BONUS:SKILL|LIST|1 would work for this. At least I think it
                                          ought to... let me know if it doesn't!

                                          -Bryan

                                          --- In pcgen@y..., "Gary" <dinthron@y...> wrote:
                                          > There's also items like the luck stone and an ioun stone that give
                                          you
                                          > a +1 to stat checks or a +1 to ALL skill checks. We'd rather not
                                          have
                                          > to specify each skill on those items. I'm sure more will crop up.
                                          >
                                          > --- In pcgen@y..., "House Gryphon" <gryps@b...> wrote:
                                          > > ----- Original Message -----
                                          > > From: "Chris Wachal" <cwachal@h...>
                                          > > > Right now, I have made a work around on my system by changing
                                          the
                                          > > > circlet of persuasion to add plus 2 to every charisma based
                                          skill
                                          > > > individually, however if anyone adds another charisma based
                                          skill
                                          > in
                                          > > > a LST file, the circlet would not add to that.
                                          > > > A function to do something like "Add 2 to all skills based off
                                          of
                                          > any
                                          > > > one stat" would be handy.
                                          > >
                                          > > Actually, this may be the best way to do it.
                                          > >
                                          > > The condition "skills based off a stat" is just one of the many
                                          > weird and
                                          > > wonderful combinations that could crop up.
                                          > >
                                          > > My view is that:
                                          > > * It is a waste coding for all the possibilities that may never
                                          crop
                                          > up.
                                          > > * If there is only one item like this it is easier to modify the
                                          > item,
                                          > > rather than add more complex functionality to the software -
                                          change
                                          > the LST
                                          > > data file isn't too difficult.
                                          > > * Once a bit of functionality becomes common, then it is worth it
                                          to
                                          > add to
                                          > > a new version of the software.
                                          > >
                                          > > Question: Are there more items like the circlet ??? Most of the
                                          > others I
                                          > > can think of off the top of my head add to stats, not skills (eg
                                          > Potion of
                                          > > Cat's Grace, Girdle of Giant Strength, etc).
                                          > >
                                          > > - Sly
                                        • john.sussenberger@libertymutual.com
                                          Even more reason to have this coded :) Then I can make cool magic items that increase your Charisma skillz!! ... From: Gary [mailto:dinthron@yahoo.com] Sent:
                                          Message 20 of 26 , Jun 8, 2001
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                                            Even more reason to have this coded :)
                                             
                                            Then I can make cool magic items that increase your Charisma skillz!!
                                            -----Original Message-----
                                            From: Gary [mailto:dinthron@...]
                                            Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 2:01 PM
                                            To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                                            Subject: [pcgen] Re: Magic items that modify skills

                                            There's also items like the luck stone and an ioun stone that give you
                                            a +1 to stat checks or a +1 to ALL skill checks.  We'd rather not have
                                            to specify each skill on those items.  I'm sure more will crop up.

                                            --- In pcgen@y..., "House Gryphon" <gryps@b...> wrote:
                                            > ----- Original Message -----
                                            > From: "Chris Wachal" <cwachal@h...>
                                            > > Right now, I have made a work around on my system by changing the
                                            > > circlet of persuasion to add plus 2 to every charisma based skill
                                            > > individually, however if anyone adds another charisma based skill
                                            in
                                            > > a LST file, the circlet would not add to that.
                                            > > A function to do something like "Add 2 to all skills based off of
                                            any
                                            > > one stat" would be handy.
                                            >
                                            > Actually, this may be the best way to do it.
                                            >
                                            > The condition "skills based off a stat" is just one of the many
                                            weird and
                                            > wonderful combinations that could crop up.
                                            >
                                            > My view is that:
                                            > * It is a waste coding for all the possibilities that may never crop
                                            up.
                                            > * If there is only one item like this it is easier to modify the
                                            item,
                                            > rather than add more complex functionality to the software - change
                                            the LST
                                            > data file isn't too difficult.
                                            > * Once a bit of functionality becomes common, then it is worth it to
                                            add to
                                            > a new version of the software.
                                            >
                                            > Question: Are there more items like the circlet ???  Most of the
                                            others I
                                            > can think of off the top of my head add to stats, not skills (eg
                                            Potion of
                                            > Cat's Grace, Girdle of Giant Strength, etc).
                                            >
                                            > - Sly



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                                          • mocha@mcs.net
                                            Hm - something like BONUS:SKILL|CHA|1 would be easy to do - what s the likelihood of a skill named STR,DEX,CON,INT,WIS or CHA? That would take almost a whole
                                            Message 21 of 26 , Jun 8, 2001
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                                              Hm - something like BONUS:SKILL|CHA|1 would be easy to do - what's
                                              the likelihood of a skill named STR,DEX,CON,INT,WIS or CHA?
                                              That would take almost a whole line of code to implement...

                                              -Bryan

                                              --- In pcgen@y..., john.sussenberger@l... wrote:
                                              > Even more reason to have this coded :)
                                              >
                                              > Then I can make cool magic items that increase your Charisma
                                              skillz!!
                                              >
                                              > -----Original Message-----
                                              > From: Gary [mailto:dinthron@y...]
                                              > Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 2:01 PM
                                              > To: pcgen@y...
                                              > Subject: [pcgen] Re: Magic items that modify skills
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > There's also items like the luck stone and an ioun stone that give
                                              you
                                              > a +1 to stat checks or a +1 to ALL skill checks. We'd rather not
                                              have
                                              > to specify each skill on those items. I'm sure more will crop up.
                                              >
                                              > --- In pcgen@y..., "House Gryphon" <gryps@b...> wrote:
                                              > > ----- Original Message -----
                                              > > From: "Chris Wachal" <cwachal@h...>
                                              > > > Right now, I have made a work around on my system by changing
                                              the
                                              > > > circlet of persuasion to add plus 2 to every charisma based
                                              skill
                                              > > > individually, however if anyone adds another charisma based
                                              skill
                                              > in
                                              > > > a LST file, the circlet would not add to that.
                                              > > > A function to do something like "Add 2 to all skills based off
                                              of
                                              > any
                                              > > > one stat" would be handy.
                                              > >
                                              > > Actually, this may be the best way to do it.
                                              > >
                                              > > The condition "skills based off a stat" is just one of the many
                                              > weird and
                                              > > wonderful combinations that could crop up.
                                              > >
                                              > > My view is that:
                                              > > * It is a waste coding for all the possibilities that may never
                                              crop
                                              > up.
                                              > > * If there is only one item like this it is easier to modify the
                                              > item,
                                              > > rather than add more complex functionality to the software -
                                              change
                                              > the LST
                                              > > data file isn't too difficult.
                                              > > * Once a bit of functionality becomes common, then it is worth it
                                              to
                                              > add to
                                              > > a new version of the software.
                                              > >
                                              > > Question: Are there more items like the circlet ??? Most of the
                                              > others I
                                              > > can think of off the top of my head add to stats, not skills (eg
                                              > Potion of
                                              > > Cat's Grace, Girdle of Giant Strength, etc).
                                              > >
                                              > > - Sly
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
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                                            • Gary
                                              I tried this, and it didn t work. So I m letting you know. Ioun Stone (Pale green) TYPE:Magic Item.Wonderous Cost:20000 WT:0
                                              Message 22 of 26 , Jun 16, 2001
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                                                I tried this, and it didn't work. So I'm letting you know.

                                                Ioun Stone (Pale green) TYPE:Magic Item.Wonderous Cost:20000
                                                WT:0 BONUS:CHECKS|Fortitude,Willpower,Reflex|1
                                                BONUS:WEAPON|TOHIT|1 BONUS:WEAPONPROF=Unarmed Attack|TOHIT|1
                                                BONUS:SKILL|LIST|1

                                                The description says it gives +1 bonus to attacks, saving throws and
                                                skill checks.

                                                --- In pcgen@y..., mocha@m... wrote:
                                                > I think BONUS:SKILL|LIST|1 would work for this. At least I think it
                                                > ought to... let me know if it doesn't!
                                                >
                                                > -Bryan
                                                >
                                                > --- In pcgen@y..., "Gary" <dinthron@y...> wrote:
                                                > > There's also items like the luck stone and an ioun stone that give
                                                > you
                                                > > a +1 to stat checks or a +1 to ALL skill checks. We'd rather not
                                                > have
                                                > > to specify each skill on those items. I'm sure more will crop up.
                                                > >
                                                > > --- In pcgen@y..., "House Gryphon" <gryps@b...> wrote:
                                                > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                > > > From: "Chris Wachal" <cwachal@h...>
                                                > > > > Right now, I have made a work around on my system by changing
                                                > the
                                                > > > > circlet of persuasion to add plus 2 to every charisma based
                                                > skill
                                                > > > > individually, however if anyone adds another charisma based
                                                > skill
                                                > > in
                                                > > > > a LST file, the circlet would not add to that.
                                                > > > > A function to do something like "Add 2 to all skills based off
                                                > of
                                                > > any
                                                > > > > one stat" would be handy.
                                                > > >
                                                > > > Actually, this may be the best way to do it.
                                                > > >
                                                > > > The condition "skills based off a stat" is just one of the many
                                                > > weird and
                                                > > > wonderful combinations that could crop up.
                                                > > >
                                                > > > My view is that:
                                                > > > * It is a waste coding for all the possibilities that may never
                                                > crop
                                                > > up.
                                                > > > * If there is only one item like this it is easier to modify the
                                                > > item,
                                                > > > rather than add more complex functionality to the software -
                                                > change
                                                > > the LST
                                                > > > data file isn't too difficult.
                                                > > > * Once a bit of functionality becomes common, then it is worth
                                                it
                                                > to
                                                > > add to
                                                > > > a new version of the software.
                                                > > >
                                                > > > Question: Are there more items like the circlet ??? Most of the
                                                > > others I
                                                > > > can think of off the top of my head add to stats, not skills (eg
                                                > > Potion of
                                                > > > Cat's Grace, Girdle of Giant Strength, etc).
                                                > > >
                                                > > > - Sly
                                              • Brass Tilde
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                                                Message 23 of 26 , Jun 16, 2001
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                                                  > -----Original Message-----
                                                  > From: Gary [mailto:dinthron@...]
                                                  >
                                                  > I tried this, and it didn't work. So I'm letting you know.
                                                  >
                                                  > Ioun Stone (Pale green) TYPE:Magic Item.Wonderous Cost:20000
                                                  > WT:0 BONUS:CHECKS|Fortitude,Willpower,Reflex|1
                                                  > BONUS:WEAPON|TOHIT|1 BONUS:WEAPONPROF=Unarmed Attack|TOHIT|1
                                                  > BONUS:SKILL|LIST|1
                                                  >

                                                  This bug has been entered at the SourceForge site as bug report #433808.

                                                  You may access the SourceForge bug tracking page at:
                                                  https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?group_id=25576&atid=384719

                                                  _________________________________________________________
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                                                  Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com
                                                • House Gryphon
                                                  ... From: Chris Wachal ... Actually, this may be the best way to do it. The condition skills based off a stat is just one of the many
                                                  Message 24 of 26 , Jun 23, 2001
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                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                    From: "Chris Wachal" <cwachal@...>
                                                    > Right now, I have made a work around on my system by changing the
                                                    > circlet of persuasion to add plus 2 to every charisma based skill
                                                    > individually, however if anyone adds another charisma based skill in
                                                    > a LST file, the circlet would not add to that.
                                                    > A function to do something like "Add 2 to all skills based off of any
                                                    > one stat" would be handy.

                                                    Actually, this may be the best way to do it.

                                                    The condition "skills based off a stat" is just one of the many weird and
                                                    wonderful combinations that could crop up.

                                                    My view is that:
                                                    * It is a waste coding for all the possibilities that may never crop up.
                                                    * If there is only one item like this it is easier to modify the item,
                                                    rather than add more complex functionality to the software - change the LST
                                                    data file isn't too difficult.
                                                    * Once a bit of functionality becomes common, then it is worth it to add to
                                                    a new version of the software.

                                                    Question: Are there more items like the circlet ??? Most of the others I
                                                    can think of off the top of my head add to stats, not skills (eg Potion of
                                                    Cat's Grace, Girdle of Giant Strength, etc).

                                                    - Sly
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