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RE: [pcgen] The Problems with PCGen and Solutions?

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  • Richard O'Doherty-Gregg
    I ll Just address a couple of your points. The gold doesn t show up on the ROG sheet because I don t use the gold field (you can add it wherever you want on
    Message 1 of 26 , Jun 3, 2001
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      I’ll Just address a couple of your points.

       

      The gold doesn’t show up on the ROG sheet because I don’t use the gold field (you can add it wherever you want on the sheet by inserting the |GOLD| tag I believe). I was waiting to add a proper coins section when we have support for cp, sp, gp and pp sometime in the future. And the amount of gold that the characters in the party that I DM have changes so often, they don’t actually want it printed on the sheet. I feel the sheet should mainly only have stuff on it that doesn’t change between levels (hence I also don’t output what spells the characters have memorized as this also changes regularly). I guess I’m just trying to save paper J

       

      Secondly, it is possible to take the toughness feat more than once. Have you tried it out? Create a human character so that it starts with 2 feats, and then select toughness. You will find that each time you select toughness it comes up with another window allowing you to allocate more than one feat slot to it (or get feat slots back).

       

      Many of the other points you have mentioned (like the drag and drop) will (and have) be experimented with no doubt once the conversion has been finished. I know the programmers were playing with that system for purchasing items, but it won’t make the first release of PCGen2.0 though.

       

      Oh, and you can sort just about every table in PCGen2.0 as well J

       

      Personally, I hope that once 2.0 is available, that they concentrate on adding more support for customisation (ie. There are quite a few additions needed to support some of the new content, like Defenders of the Faith etc) rather than adding fancy interface “features” J

       

      ROG

       

      Richard & Sarah O'Doherty-Gregg

      17 Alwyn Rd, Lenah Valley, TAS

      Australia 7008

      OdGregg@...

       

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Chris Wachal [mailto:cwachal@...]
      Sent: Sunday, 3 June 2001 5:21 AM
      To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [pcgen] The Problems with PCGen and Solutions?

       

      Since PCGen was being partially rewritten anyways, I figured that I
      would give a couple suggestions on features that would make PCGen the
      best program it can be.

      I finally convinced a programmer friend of mine to try PCGen to
      generate characters, he liked the Master Tools demo for that.  He
      thinks that this program has so much potential but there are a couple
      things that need to be changed.  He says they would be fairly easy to
      repair and said he might be willing to help should you have questions
      as to how to implement these features.  What we see as a couple major
      flaws of the program that are limiting its effectiveness are as
      follows:

      1. Feats need to have a screen set up to drag "available feats" over
      to a "chosen feats" section.  This will allow you to take any feats
      more than once, unlike the current system.  Each feat will need a
      descriptor for whether or not it allows mulitple or not.

      It also allows you to easily see which feats you currently have as
      well as easily take things like "Weapon Focus: longsword" and "Weapon
      Focus: short sword".

      2. You need to be able to sort the equipment by all the categories. 
      As well, a system like the feats above where you drag items into your
      inventory.  Items could either be set as multiple or not.  Multiple
      items would allow you to buy more than one of something at once as be
      listed as "7 days rations", whereas some items could only be bought
      one at a time, so you could drag "Short Sword" over to your inventory
      and have one.  If you wanted a second one for your offhand, you could
      drag another "Short Sword" over, each one would be listed as
      different items.

      You would need a button called add or something so you could select a
      multiple item in your inventory and add 1 to it.  So you would drag
      over "Days of Iron Rations" and it would automatically assign 1 to
      it, then you could click on it and add more, so you could put it up
      to 7.  This would also enable you to make "groups" of items.  For
      instance, in this same situation, after taking 7 days of rations, you
      could drag another "days of iron rations" over, it would auto assign
      1 to that one, and then you could add 6 more to it, and therefore
      have 2 "groups" of 7 days iron rations.  This would make it easier to
      marks weeks of rations for instance off your character sheet.

      This system would enable you to actually equip one short sword in
      each hand.  It could be done by making your equipment into an array.

      3. We need to have a similar system as the items for the skills. 
      Drag a skill over when you take it, it would set the skill at 1.0 or
      0.5 if it is cross class.  It would also ask you for the
      specialization when you first move it over.  For instance, if you
      drag "History" over, it would come up with a list of choices for
      specialization like "local" or "The Dales" or "Waterdeep" or
      something.

      4. The amount of gold you have left after you purchase your equipment
      should print somewhere on the character sheets, it doesn't yet.  You
      have to manually enter it into the money section

      5. I would like to request the ability to add a bonus to all skills
      based off of one attribute like "+2 to all charisma based skills".  I
      don't know if you can already do this, however, right now the circlet
      of persuasion is listed as +2 to charisma instead of +2 to all
      charisma based skills.

      When I say "drag" in these examples, I believe something like the
      current spell system, where you click on something then click a
      button to add it would work too.

      I believe this system would require more information to be stored in
      the character save files themselves.  If you are already storing more
      information in the character sheets, would it be possible to store
      information like the stats on all your weapons, spells, abilities of
      your current levels of classes, etc. on your character save file so
      you could load it in any copy of PCGen without that copy having the
      appropriate lst files so you could still view your character and
      create character sheets, but you wouldn't be able to increase your
      level in any class that you didn't have the lst files for.

      I understand that some of it would be a lot of work, however, right
      now as it stands, you cannot take multiple toughness feats, or equip
      2 of the same weapons.  As well, taking equipment is very difficult
      right now, at the very least, this needs an "Add" button, so you
      could select an item and then click the add button to add 1.

      I hope this helps slightly, you know I've been around a while trying
      to make PCGen better, as I believe it can truly be THE best character
      generator for D20.

      Chris Wachal



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    • kmaxx93749@yahoo.com
      I d also like to address the gold issue. If you go under the misc. tab in the program and put in the amount of gold, silver, copper, or platinum peices the
      Message 2 of 26 , Jun 3, 2001
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        I'd also like to address the gold issue. If you go under the misc.
        tab in the program and put in the amount of gold, silver, copper, or
        platinum peices the person in the party has it shows up on the ROG
        sheet under gold!

        --- In pcgen@y..., "Richard O'Doherty-Gregg" <OdGregg@b...> wrote:
        > I'll Just address a couple of your points.
        >
        >
        >
        > The gold doesn't show up on the ROG sheet because I don't use the
        gold
        > field (you can add it wherever you want on the sheet by inserting
        the
        > |GOLD| tag I believe). I was waiting to add a proper coins section
        when
        > we have support for cp, sp, gp and pp sometime in the future. And
        the
        > amount of gold that the characters in the party that I DM have
        changes
        > so often, they don't actually want it printed on the sheet. I feel
        the
        > sheet should mainly only have stuff on it that doesn't change
        between
        > levels (hence I also don't output what spells the characters have
        > memorized as this also changes regularly). I guess I'm just trying
        to
        > save paper :-)
        >
        >
        >
        > Secondly, it is possible to take the toughness feat more than once.
        Have
        > you tried it out? Create a human character so that it starts with 2
        > feats, and then select toughness. You will find that each time you
        > select toughness it comes up with another window allowing you to
        > allocate more than one feat slot to it (or get feat slots back).
        >
        >
        >
        > Many of the other points you have mentioned (like the drag and drop)
        > will (and have) be experimented with no doubt once the conversion
        has
        > been finished. I know the programmers were playing with that system
        for
        > purchasing items, but it won't make the first release of PCGen2.0
        > though.
        >
        >
        >
        > Oh, and you can sort just about every table in PCGen2.0 as well :-)
        >
        >
        >
        > Personally, I hope that once 2.0 is available, that they
        concentrate on
        > adding more support for customisation (ie. There are quite a few
        > additions needed to support some of the new content, like Defenders
        of
        > the Faith etc) rather than adding fancy interface "features" :-)
        >
        >
        >
        > ROG
        >
        >
        >
        > Richard & Sarah O'Doherty-Gregg
        >
        > 17 Alwyn Rd, Lenah Valley, TAS
        >
        > Australia 7008
        >
        > OdGregg@b...
        >
        >
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: Chris Wachal [mailto:cwachal@h...]
        > Sent: Sunday, 3 June 2001 5:21 AM
        > To: pcgen@y...
        > Subject: [pcgen] The Problems with PCGen and Solutions?
        >
        >
        >
        > Since PCGen was being partially rewritten anyways, I figured that I
        > would give a couple suggestions on features that would make PCGen
        the
        > best program it can be.
        >
        > I finally convinced a programmer friend of mine to try PCGen to
        > generate characters, he liked the Master Tools demo for that. He
        > thinks that this program has so much potential but there are a
        couple
        > things that need to be changed. He says they would be fairly easy
        to
        > repair and said he might be willing to help should you have
        questions
        > as to how to implement these features. What we see as a couple
        major
        > flaws of the program that are limiting its effectiveness are as
        > follows:
        >
        > 1. Feats need to have a screen set up to drag "available feats"
        over
        > to a "chosen feats" section. This will allow you to take any feats
        > more than once, unlike the current system. Each feat will need a
        > descriptor for whether or not it allows mulitple or not.
        >
        > It also allows you to easily see which feats you currently have as
        > well as easily take things like "Weapon Focus: longsword"
        and "Weapon
        > Focus: short sword".
        >
        > 2. You need to be able to sort the equipment by all the
        categories.
        > As well, a system like the feats above where you drag items into
        your
        > inventory. Items could either be set as multiple or not. Multiple
        > items would allow you to buy more than one of something at once as
        be
        > listed as "7 days rations", whereas some items could only be bought
        > one at a time, so you could drag "Short Sword" over to your
        inventory
        > and have one. If you wanted a second one for your offhand, you
        could
        > drag another "Short Sword" over, each one would be listed as
        > different items.
        >
        > You would need a button called add or something so you could select
        a
        > multiple item in your inventory and add 1 to it. So you would drag
        > over "Days of Iron Rations" and it would automatically assign 1 to
        > it, then you could click on it and add more, so you could put it up
        > to 7. This would also enable you to make "groups" of items. For
        > instance, in this same situation, after taking 7 days of rations,
        you
        > could drag another "days of iron rations" over, it would auto
        assign
        > 1 to that one, and then you could add 6 more to it, and therefore
        > have 2 "groups" of 7 days iron rations. This would make it easier
        to
        > marks weeks of rations for instance off your character sheet.
        >
        > This system would enable you to actually equip one short sword in
        > each hand. It could be done by making your equipment into an array.
        >
        > 3. We need to have a similar system as the items for the skills.
        > Drag a skill over when you take it, it would set the skill at 1.0
        or
        > 0.5 if it is cross class. It would also ask you for the
        > specialization when you first move it over. For instance, if you
        > drag "History" over, it would come up with a list of choices for
        > specialization like "local" or "The Dales" or "Waterdeep" or
        > something.
        >
        > 4. The amount of gold you have left after you purchase your
        equipment
        > should print somewhere on the character sheets, it doesn't yet.
        You
        > have to manually enter it into the money section
        >
        > 5. I would like to request the ability to add a bonus to all skills
        > based off of one attribute like "+2 to all charisma based skills".
        I
        > don't know if you can already do this, however, right now the
        circlet
        > of persuasion is listed as +2 to charisma instead of +2 to all
        > charisma based skills.
        >
        > When I say "drag" in these examples, I believe something like the
        > current spell system, where you click on something then click a
        > button to add it would work too.
        >
        > I believe this system would require more information to be stored
        in
        > the character save files themselves. If you are already storing
        more
        > information in the character sheets, would it be possible to store
        > information like the stats on all your weapons, spells, abilities
        of
        > your current levels of classes, etc. on your character save file so
        > you could load it in any copy of PCGen without that copy having the
        > appropriate lst files so you could still view your character and
        > create character sheets, but you wouldn't be able to increase your
        > level in any class that you didn't have the lst files for.
        >
        > I understand that some of it would be a lot of work, however, right
        > now as it stands, you cannot take multiple toughness feats, or
        equip
        > 2 of the same weapons. As well, taking equipment is very difficult
        > right now, at the very least, this needs an "Add" button, so you
        > could select an item and then click the add button to add 1.
        >
        > I hope this helps slightly, you know I've been around a while
        trying
        > to make PCGen better, as I believe it can truly be THE best
        character
        > generator for D20.
        >
        > Chris Wachal
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
        >
        >
        >
        >
        <http://rd.yahoo.com/M=206662.1458837.3039162.908943/D=egroupmail/S=17
        00
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      • Richard O'Doherty-Gregg
        Yes, that s true (and what I do), but I believe Chris was referring to the gold field on the equipment tab which is not included on my character sheet. -ROG
        Message 3 of 26 , Jun 3, 2001
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          Yes, that's true (and what I do), but I believe Chris was referring
          to the gold field on the equipment tab which is not included on my
          character sheet.

          -ROG

          ps. By the way Chris, I hope I didn't offend you with my reply, I was
          just trying to point out how "we" currently do some things in PCGen :-
          ) You're post contained very good comments :-)

          --- In pcgen@y..., kmaxx93749@y... wrote:
          > I'd also like to address the gold issue. If you go under the misc.
          > tab in the program and put in the amount of gold, silver, copper,
          or
          > platinum peices the person in the party has it shows up on the ROG
          > sheet under gold!
          >
          > --- In pcgen@y..., "Richard O'Doherty-Gregg" <OdGregg@b...> wrote:
          > > I'll Just address a couple of your points.
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > The gold doesn't show up on the ROG sheet because I don't use the
          > gold
          > > field (you can add it wherever you want on the sheet by inserting
          > the
          > > |GOLD| tag I believe). I was waiting to add a proper coins
          section
          > when
          > > we have support for cp, sp, gp and pp sometime in the future. And
          > the
          > > amount of gold that the characters in the party that I DM have
          > changes
          > > so often, they don't actually want it printed on the sheet. I
          feel
          > the
          > > sheet should mainly only have stuff on it that doesn't change
          > between
          > > levels (hence I also don't output what spells the characters have
          > > memorized as this also changes regularly). I guess I'm just
          trying
          > to
          > > save paper :-)
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Secondly, it is possible to take the toughness feat more than
          once.
          > Have
          > > you tried it out? Create a human character so that it starts with
          2
          > > feats, and then select toughness. You will find that each time you
          > > select toughness it comes up with another window allowing you to
          > > allocate more than one feat slot to it (or get feat slots back).
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Many of the other points you have mentioned (like the drag and
          drop)
          > > will (and have) be experimented with no doubt once the conversion
          > has
          > > been finished. I know the programmers were playing with that
          system
          > for
          > > purchasing items, but it won't make the first release of PCGen2.0
          > > though.
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Oh, and you can sort just about every table in PCGen2.0 as well :-
          )
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Personally, I hope that once 2.0 is available, that they
          > concentrate on
          > > adding more support for customisation (ie. There are quite a few
          > > additions needed to support some of the new content, like
          Defenders
          > of
          > > the Faith etc) rather than adding fancy interface "features" :-)
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > ROG
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Richard & Sarah O'Doherty-Gregg
          > >
          > > 17 Alwyn Rd, Lenah Valley, TAS
          > >
          > > Australia 7008
          > >
          > > OdGregg@b...
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > -----Original Message-----
          > > From: Chris Wachal [mailto:cwachal@h...]
          > > Sent: Sunday, 3 June 2001 5:21 AM
          > > To: pcgen@y...
          > > Subject: [pcgen] The Problems with PCGen and Solutions?
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Since PCGen was being partially rewritten anyways, I figured that
          I
          > > would give a couple suggestions on features that would make PCGen
          > the
          > > best program it can be.
          > >
          > > I finally convinced a programmer friend of mine to try PCGen to
          > > generate characters, he liked the Master Tools demo for that. He
          > > thinks that this program has so much potential but there are a
          > couple
          > > things that need to be changed. He says they would be fairly
          easy
          > to
          > > repair and said he might be willing to help should you have
          > questions
          > > as to how to implement these features. What we see as a couple
          > major
          > > flaws of the program that are limiting its effectiveness are as
          > > follows:
          > >
          > > 1. Feats need to have a screen set up to drag "available feats"
          > over
          > > to a "chosen feats" section. This will allow you to take any
          feats
          > > more than once, unlike the current system. Each feat will need a
          > > descriptor for whether or not it allows mulitple or not.
          > >
          > > It also allows you to easily see which feats you currently have
          as
          > > well as easily take things like "Weapon Focus: longsword"
          > and "Weapon
          > > Focus: short sword".
          > >
          > > 2. You need to be able to sort the equipment by all the
          > categories.
          > > As well, a system like the feats above where you drag items into
          > your
          > > inventory. Items could either be set as multiple or not.
          Multiple
          > > items would allow you to buy more than one of something at once
          as
          > be
          > > listed as "7 days rations", whereas some items could only be
          bought
          > > one at a time, so you could drag "Short Sword" over to your
          > inventory
          > > and have one. If you wanted a second one for your offhand, you
          > could
          > > drag another "Short Sword" over, each one would be listed as
          > > different items.
          > >
          > > You would need a button called add or something so you could
          select
          > a
          > > multiple item in your inventory and add 1 to it. So you would
          drag
          > > over "Days of Iron Rations" and it would automatically assign 1
          to
          > > it, then you could click on it and add more, so you could put it
          up
          > > to 7. This would also enable you to make "groups" of items. For
          > > instance, in this same situation, after taking 7 days of rations,
          > you
          > > could drag another "days of iron rations" over, it would auto
          > assign
          > > 1 to that one, and then you could add 6 more to it, and therefore
          > > have 2 "groups" of 7 days iron rations. This would make it
          easier
          > to
          > > marks weeks of rations for instance off your character sheet.
          > >
          > > This system would enable you to actually equip one short sword in
          > > each hand. It could be done by making your equipment into an
          array.
          > >
          > > 3. We need to have a similar system as the items for the skills.
          > > Drag a skill over when you take it, it would set the skill at 1.0
          > or
          > > 0.5 if it is cross class. It would also ask you for the
          > > specialization when you first move it over. For instance, if you
          > > drag "History" over, it would come up with a list of choices for
          > > specialization like "local" or "The Dales" or "Waterdeep" or
          > > something.
          > >
          > > 4. The amount of gold you have left after you purchase your
          > equipment
          > > should print somewhere on the character sheets, it doesn't yet.
          > You
          > > have to manually enter it into the money section
          > >
          > > 5. I would like to request the ability to add a bonus to all
          skills
          > > based off of one attribute like "+2 to all charisma based
          skills".
          > I
          > > don't know if you can already do this, however, right now the
          > circlet
          > > of persuasion is listed as +2 to charisma instead of +2 to all
          > > charisma based skills.
          > >
          > > When I say "drag" in these examples, I believe something like the
          > > current spell system, where you click on something then click a
          > > button to add it would work too.
          > >
          > > I believe this system would require more information to be stored
          > in
          > > the character save files themselves. If you are already storing
          > more
          > > information in the character sheets, would it be possible to
          store
          > > information like the stats on all your weapons, spells, abilities
          > of
          > > your current levels of classes, etc. on your character save file
          so
          > > you could load it in any copy of PCGen without that copy having
          the
          > > appropriate lst files so you could still view your character and
          > > create character sheets, but you wouldn't be able to increase
          your
          > > level in any class that you didn't have the lst files for.
          > >
          > > I understand that some of it would be a lot of work, however,
          right
          > > now as it stands, you cannot take multiple toughness feats, or
          > equip
          > > 2 of the same weapons. As well, taking equipment is very
          difficult
          > > right now, at the very least, this needs an "Add" button, so you
          > > could select an item and then click the add button to add 1.
          > >
          > > I hope this helps slightly, you know I've been around a while
          > trying
          > > to make PCGen better, as I believe it can truly be THE best
          > character
          > > generator for D20.
          > >
          > > Chris Wachal
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          <http://rd.yahoo.com/M=206662.1458837.3039162.908943/D=egroupmail/S=17
          > 00
          > > 000001:N/A=682980/*http:/altfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/1114-3934-
          1039-
          > 0?mp
          > > t=991509679> Check out great fares at Orbitz!
          > >
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          > M=206662.1458837.3039162.908943/D=egroup
          > > mail/S=1700000001:N/A=682980/rand=148818119>
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          > >
          > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > > pcgen-unsubscribe@egroups.com
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          > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.
        • Lonestar
          kyc I d also like to address the gold issue. If you go under the misc. kyc tab in the program and put in the amount of gold, silver, copper, or kyc
          Message 4 of 26 , Jun 3, 2001
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            kyc> I'd also like to address the gold issue. If you go under the misc.
            kyc> tab in the program and put in the amount of gold, silver, copper, or
            kyc> platinum peices the person in the party has it shows up on the ROG
            kyc> sheet under gold!

            I think currency support is supposed to be on the to-do list.
            It should be possible to have a self defined currency system for each
            campaign (region?).
            In the Forgotten Realms it is:
            1 platinum = 10 gold = 100 silver = 1000 copper coins
            In Waterdeep thers the toal (a square brass coin with a central hole,
            worth 2gp) and the harbor moon (a flat crescent platinum with a
            central hole and an electrum inlay, worth 50 gp in Waterdeep and 30gp
            elsewhere).
            Then there are trade bars of silver or gold in different weights (1 to
            10 pounds) and there are some other exotic currencies like the Gond
            bells (small brass bells. worth 10gp in trade and 20gp in Gond
            temples) or the Shaar rings (pierced and polished slices of ivory,
            worth 3gp each) plus an assortment of pearls (used by undersea
            creatures as currency).

            Ok, thats a rather complex currency system, but it would be great if
            it would be supported by PCGen ;)


            Lonestar mailto:Lonestar@...
          • mocha@mcs.net
            We ve talked about a currency system, and it definitely will get done, just not for the 2.0.0 release. We ll let you define which currency is the standard ,
            Message 5 of 26 , Jun 4, 2001
            • 0 Attachment
              We've talked about a currency system, and it definitely will get
              done, just not for the 2.0.0 release. We'll let you define which
              currency is the 'standard', and the 'gold' field in the Items tab
              will be tied to how many of those coins you have. All the other
              coins will have a cost associated with them, which will give us an
              exchange rate. Our thinking was to do this as equipment, but in
              thinking about this I realize that the coins would then show up in
              the Equipment lists on the charactersheets, which may not be desired
              behavior. You could also display them in a separate 'wealth' section
              by using the EQTYPE.Coins token, but maybe breaking them out of
              equipment into a Wealth object would be a better implementation.
              Anyway, the idea is pretty much there, just need to work out the
              kinks. :)

              -Bryan

              --- In pcgen@y..., Lonestar <Lonestar@l...> wrote:
              > kyc> I'd also like to address the gold issue. If you go under the
              misc.
              > kyc> tab in the program and put in the amount of gold, silver,
              copper, or
              > kyc> platinum peices the person in the party has it shows up on the
              ROG
              > kyc> sheet under gold!
              >
              > I think currency support is supposed to be on the to-do list.
              > It should be possible to have a self defined currency system for
              each
              > campaign (region?).
              > In the Forgotten Realms it is:
              > 1 platinum = 10 gold = 100 silver = 1000 copper coins
              > In Waterdeep thers the toal (a square brass coin with a central
              hole,
              > worth 2gp) and the harbor moon (a flat crescent platinum with a
              > central hole and an electrum inlay, worth 50 gp in Waterdeep and
              30gp
              > elsewhere).
              > Then there are trade bars of silver or gold in different weights (1
              to
              > 10 pounds) and there are some other exotic currencies like the Gond
              > bells (small brass bells. worth 10gp in trade and 20gp in Gond
              > temples) or the Shaar rings (pierced and polished slices of ivory,
              > worth 3gp each) plus an assortment of pearls (used by undersea
              > creatures as currency).
              >
              > Ok, thats a rather complex currency system, but it would be great if
              > it would be supported by PCGen ;)
              >
              >
              > Lonestar mailto:Lonestar@l...
            • mocha@mcs.net
              ... the ... Hey - I m always open to ideas! :) ... couple ... to ... questions ... major ... over ... and Weapon ... The feats tab looks very different - most
              Message 6 of 26 , Jun 4, 2001
              • 0 Attachment
                --- In pcgen@y..., "Chris Wachal" <cwachal@h...> wrote:
                > Since PCGen was being partially rewritten anyways, I figured that I
                > would give a couple suggestions on features that would make PCGen
                the
                > best program it can be.

                Hey - I'm always open to ideas! :)

                >
                > I finally convinced a programmer friend of mine to try PCGen to
                > generate characters, he liked the Master Tools demo for that. He
                > thinks that this program has so much potential but there are a
                couple
                > things that need to be changed. He says they would be fairly easy
                to
                > repair and said he might be willing to help should you have
                questions
                > as to how to implement these features. What we see as a couple
                major
                > flaws of the program that are limiting its effectiveness are as
                > follows:
                >
                > 1. Feats need to have a screen set up to drag "available feats"
                over
                > to a "chosen feats" section. This will allow you to take any feats
                > more than once, unlike the current system. Each feat will need a
                > descriptor for whether or not it allows mulitple or not.
                >
                > It also allows you to easily see which feats you currently have as
                > well as easily take things like "Weapon Focus: longsword"
                and "Weapon
                > Focus: short sword".

                The feats tab looks very different - most tabs (feats included) are
                dominated by a table displaying all the relevant info. For feats
                this means whether or not you qualify for it, it's name, how you have
                it (virtual, no, yes), any pre-requisites, it's description and
                source file. The options (virtual, yes, no) is actually a button,
                and by clicking on the button you're selecting/de-selecting the feat
                (any choices related to it are then presented). You can sort by any
                column in the table (same for all tables in PCGen except for the
                stats table) and you can even filter out which feats are displayed.
                Our API will be open, so your friend would be able to construct his
                own interface if he wanted to. A largely drag-and-drop type
                interface would certainly be a good choice, but I like the amount of
                info you can provide in a table. It also gives you more sorting
                options than you'd have in a drag-n-drop solution. Just comes down to
                preferences.

                >
                > 2. You need to be able to sort the equipment by all the
                categories.
                > As well, a system like the feats above where you drag items into
                your
                > inventory. Items could either be set as multiple or not. Multiple
                > items would allow you to buy more than one of something at once as
                be
                > listed as "7 days rations", whereas some items could only be bought
                > one at a time, so you could drag "Short Sword" over to your
                inventory
                > and have one. If you wanted a second one for your offhand, you
                could
                > drag another "Short Sword" over, each one would be listed as
                > different items.
                >
                > You would need a button called add or something so you could select
                a
                > multiple item in your inventory and add 1 to it. So you would drag
                > over "Days of Iron Rations" and it would automatically assign 1 to
                > it, then you could click on it and add more, so you could put it up
                > to 7. This would also enable you to make "groups" of items. For
                > instance, in this same situation, after taking 7 days of rations,
                you
                > could drag another "days of iron rations" over, it would auto
                assign
                > 1 to that one, and then you could add 6 more to it, and therefore
                > have 2 "groups" of 7 days iron rations. This would make it easier
                to
                > marks weeks of rations for instance off your character sheet.
                >
                > This system would enable you to actually equip one short sword in
                > each hand. It could be done by making your equipment into an array.

                All tables (minus one) will be sortable by every column, so that
                request is already handled.:) I have big plans on how to change the
                equipping functionality, but we just didn't have time to get that in
                this initial release. The way I want to handle it is via a drag-n-
                drop type interface which is very intuitive - I also plan on handling
                putting stuff in containers all in the same interface... so we'll get
                there, just not in 2.0.0 (maybe 2.0.1, but we'll see...) :)

                >
                > 3. We need to have a similar system as the items for the skills.
                > Drag a skill over when you take it, it would set the skill at 1.0
                or
                > 0.5 if it is cross class. It would also ask you for the
                > specialization when you first move it over. For instance, if you
                > drag "History" over, it would come up with a list of choices for
                > specialization like "local" or "The Dales" or "Waterdeep" or
                > something.

                I take it you like drag-n-drop? :) My preference is definitely on
                the table side. Technically everyone has all skills (except
                exclusive ones) because ranks are really just modifiers, whereas drag-
                n-drop would indicate that you don't have the skill at all unless you
                allocate at least one skill-point to it. I like the table
                presentation because I can display in one column your total,
                modifiers, ranks and whatnot and you can sort on any of them. You
                can also use a filter to filter on just class-skills, cross-class
                skills, exclusive or untrained. I think you'll like it. :)

                >
                > 4. The amount of gold you have left after you purchase your
                equipment
                > should print somewhere on the character sheets, it doesn't yet.
                You
                > have to manually enter it into the money section

                As ROG mentioned - this is a charactersheet issue. The GOLD token
                does this, but the wealth issue is about to get a face-lift
                afterwhich time ROG will add those tokens to his charactersheet.

                >
                > 5. I would like to request the ability to add a bonus to all skills
                > based off of one attribute like "+2 to all charisma based skills".
                I
                > don't know if you can already do this, however, right now the
                circlet
                > of persuasion is listed as +2 to charisma instead of +2 to all
                > charisma based skills.

                Ah - then it should really be +4 to charisma to give a +2 mod.

                >
                > When I say "drag" in these examples, I believe something like the
                > current spell system, where you click on something then click a
                > button to add it would work too.

                Our drag-n-drop method for equipping, when completed, will look a lot
                like a file brower. You'll see objects displayed in a hierarchy, with
                containers displayed like a directory. In java this is called a
                JTree - so you can actually click on the object and drag it over the
                container you want to put it in.

                >
                > I believe this system would require more information to be stored
                in
                > the character save files themselves. If you are already storing
                more
                > information in the character sheets, would it be possible to store
                > information like the stats on all your weapons, spells, abilities
                of
                > your current levels of classes, etc. on your character save file so
                > you could load it in any copy of PCGen without that copy having the
                > appropriate lst files so you could still view your character and
                > create character sheets, but you wouldn't be able to increase your
                > level in any class that you didn't have the lst files for.
                >
                > I understand that some of it would be a lot of work, however, right
                > now as it stands, you cannot take multiple toughness feats, or
                equip
                > 2 of the same weapons. As well, taking equipment is very difficult
                > right now, at the very least, this needs an "Add" button, so you
                > could select an item and then click the add button to add 1.
                >
                > I hope this helps slightly, you know I've been around a while
                trying
                > to make PCGen better, as I believe it can truly be THE best
                character
                > generator for D20.

                I'm certainly glad to hear your suggestions. PCGen wouldn't have
                gotten nearly this far if I'd insisted on only using my own ideas -
                many people have come up with absolutely fantastic ideas and have
                made coding it a lot of fun. I think that part of what makes PCGen
                special is that there's such a strong community effort behind it.
                Maybe by the time that GenCon rolls around we'll be up-to-date in
                terms of supporting all material that's been released by that time.
                That's pretty aggresive, but it's certainly worth a shot. :)

                -Bryan

                >
                > Chris Wachal
              • sorrow@talk21.com
                *looks at Bryan s comments on V2.0* Oooooh. Every time someone mentions the new version, it sounds better ;) Can t wait to see this.
                Message 7 of 26 , Jun 4, 2001
                • 0 Attachment
                  *looks at Bryan's comments on V2.0*

                  Oooooh. Every time someone mentions the new version, it sounds
                  better ;)

                  Can't wait to see this.
                • Damian
                  Lots of stuff below. v Cleverly Disguised As A Responsible Adult, Erin ... From: mocha@mcs.net [mailto:mocha@mcs.net] Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 9:52 AM
                  Message 8 of 26 , Jun 4, 2001
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Lots of stuff below.
                     

                    v     Cleverly Disguised As A Responsible Adult,

                    Erin

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: mocha@... [mailto:mocha@...]
                    Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 9:52 AM
                    To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [pcgen] Re: The Problems with PCGen and Solutions?

                    --- In pcgen@y..., "Chris Wachal" <cwachal@h...> wrote:
                    > Since PCGen was being partially rewritten anyways, I figured that I
                    > would give a couple suggestions on features that would make PCGen
                    the
                    > best program it can be.

                    Hey - I'm always open to ideas! :)

                    >
                    > I finally convinced a programmer friend of mine to try PCGen to
                    > generate characters, he liked the Master Tools demo for that.  He
                    > thinks that this program has so much potential but there are a
                    couple
                    > things that need to be changed.  He says they would be fairly easy
                    to
                    > repair and said he might be willing to help should you have
                    questions
                    > as to how to implement these features.  What we see as a couple
                    major
                    > flaws of the program that are limiting its effectiveness are as
                    > follows:
                    >
                    > 1. Feats need to have a screen set up to drag "available feats"
                    over
                    > to a "chosen feats" section.  This will allow you to take any feats
                    > more than once, unlike the current system.  Each feat will need a
                    > descriptor for whether or not it allows mulitple or not.
                    >
                    > It also allows you to easily see which feats you currently have as
                    > well as easily take things like "Weapon Focus: longsword"
                    and "Weapon
                    > Focus: short sword".

                    The feats tab looks very different - most tabs (feats included) are
                    dominated by a table displaying all the relevant info.  For feats
                    this means whether or not you qualify for it, it's name, how you have
                    it (virtual, no, yes), any pre-requisites, it's description and
                    source file.  The options (virtual, yes, no) is actually a button,
                    and by clicking on the button you're selecting/de-selecting the feat
                    (any choices related to it are then presented).  You can sort by any
                    column in the table (same for all tables in PCGen except for the
                    stats table) and you can even filter out which feats are displayed. 
                    Our API will be open, so your friend would be able to construct his
                    own interface if he wanted to.  A largely drag-and-drop type
                    interface would certainly be a good choice, but I like the amount of
                    info you can provide in a table.  It also gives you more sorting
                    options than you'd have in a drag-n-drop solution. Just comes down to
                    preferences. 
                     
                    I like the table method too.  I want LOTS of info in my generator.  that's part of the problem i had with the one that came with the Players Handbook. 

                    >
                    > 2. You need to be able to sort the equipment by all the
                    categories. 
                    > As well, a system like the feats above where you drag items into
                    your
                    > inventory.  Items could either be set as multiple or not.  Multiple
                    > items would allow you to buy more than one of something at once as
                    be
                    > listed as "7 days rations", whereas some items could only be bought
                    > one at a time, so you could drag "Short Sword" over to your
                    inventory
                    > and have one.  If you wanted a second one for your offhand, you
                    could
                    > drag another "Short Sword" over, each one would be listed as
                    > different items.
                    >
                    > You would need a button called add or something so you could select
                    a
                    > multiple item in your inventory and add 1 to it.  So you would drag
                    > over "Days of Iron Rations" and it would automatically assign 1 to
                    > it, then you could click on it and add more, so you could put it up
                    > to 7.  This would also enable you to make "groups" of items.  For
                    > instance, in this same situation, after taking 7 days of rations,
                    you
                    > could drag another "days of iron rations" over, it would auto
                    assign
                    > 1 to that one, and then you could add 6 more to it, and therefore
                    > have 2 "groups" of 7 days iron rations.  This would make it easier
                    to
                    > marks weeks of rations for instance off your character sheet.
                    >
                    > This system would enable you to actually equip one short sword in
                    > each hand.  It could be done by making your equipment into an array.

                    All tables (minus one) will be sortable by every column, so that
                    request is already handled.:)  I have big plans on how to change the
                    equipping functionality, but we just didn't have time to get that in
                    this initial release.  The way I want to handle it is via a drag-n-
                    drop type interface which is very intuitive - I also plan on handling
                    putting stuff in containers all in the same interface... so we'll get
                    there, just not in 2.0.0 (maybe 2.0.1, but we'll see...) :) 

                    >
                    > 3. We need to have a similar system as the items for the skills. 
                    > Drag a skill over when you take it, it would set the skill at 1.0
                    or
                    > 0.5 if it is cross class.  It would also ask you for the
                    > specialization when you first move it over.  For instance, if you
                    > drag "History" over, it would come up with a list of choices for
                    > specialization like "local" or "The Dales" or "Waterdeep" or
                    > something.

                    I take it you like drag-n-drop? :)  My preference is definitely on
                    the table side.  Technically everyone has all skills (except
                    exclusive ones) because ranks are really just modifiers, whereas drag-
                    n-drop would indicate that you don't have the skill at all unless you
                    allocate at least one skill-point to it.  I like the table
                    presentation because I can display in one column your total,
                    modifiers, ranks and whatnot and you can sort on any of them.  You
                    can also use a filter to filter on just class-skills, cross-class
                    skills, exclusive or untrained. I think you'll like it. :) 
                     
                    Are we going to have pop up text fields for nonstandard specializations?  Stuff that's not in the books? 

                    >
                    > 4. The amount of gold you have left after you purchase your
                    equipment
                    > should print somewhere on the character sheets, it doesn't yet. 
                    You
                    > have to manually enter it into the money section

                    As ROG mentioned - this is a charactersheet issue.  The GOLD token
                    does this, but the wealth issue is about to get a face-lift
                    afterwhich time ROG will add those tokens to his charactersheet.

                    >
                    > 5. I would like to request the ability to add a bonus to all skills
                    > based off of one attribute like "+2 to all charisma based skills". 
                    I
                    > don't know if you can already do this, however, right now the
                    circlet
                    > of persuasion is listed as +2 to charisma instead of +2 to all
                    > charisma based skills.

                    Ah - then it should really be +4 to charisma to give a +2 mod. 
                     
                    well, +4 to Charisma for purposes of skills.

                    >
                    > When I say "drag" in these examples, I believe something like the
                    > current spell system, where you click on something then click a
                    > button to add it would work too.

                    Our drag-n-drop method for equipping, when completed, will look a lot
                    like a file brower. You'll see objects displayed in a hierarchy, with
                    containers displayed like a directory.  In java this is called a
                    JTree - so you can actually click on the object and drag it over the
                    container you want to put it in.
                     
                    Going the rout of the old Core Rules stuff, eh?  cool, i liked how that worked, and is what i was going to suggest anyway (or did suggest, my minds a little glitchy right now).  Don't forget to allow containers within containers, and you COULD give them a HOME container, for stuff they want to HAVE, but don't carry with them.

                    >
                    > I believe this system would require more information to be stored
                    in
                    > the character save files themselves.  If you are already storing
                    more
                    > information in the character sheets, would it be possible to store
                    > information like the stats on all your weapons, spells, abilities
                    of
                    > your current levels of classes, etc. on your character save file so
                    > you could load it in any copy of PCGen without that copy having the
                    > appropriate lst files so you could still view your character and
                    > create character sheets, but you wouldn't be able to increase your
                    > level in any class that you didn't have the lst files for.
                    >
                    > I understand that some of it would be a lot of work, however, right
                    > now as it stands, you cannot take multiple toughness feats, or
                    equip
                    > 2 of the same weapons.  As well, taking equipment is very difficult
                    > right now, at the very least, this needs an "Add" button, so you
                    > could select an item and then click the add button to add 1.
                    >
                    > I hope this helps slightly, you know I've been around a while
                    trying
                    > to make PCGen better, as I believe it can truly be THE best
                    character
                    > generator for D20.

                    I'm certainly glad to hear your suggestions.  PCGen wouldn't have
                    gotten nearly this far if I'd insisted on only using my own ideas -
                    many people have come up with absolutely fantastic ideas and have
                    made coding it a lot of fun.  I think that part of what makes PCGen
                    special is that there's such a strong community effort behind it. 
                    Maybe by the time that GenCon rolls around we'll be up-to-date in
                    terms of supporting all material that's been released by that time. 
                    That's pretty aggresive, but it's certainly worth a shot. :)
                     
                    Grrrrrr. still pissed that i'm not going to be able to go this year.  I'm already savign up for next year.
                     

                    v     Cleverly Disguised As A Responsible Adult,

                    Erin

                     
                    -Bryan

                    >
                    > Chris Wachal



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                  • mocha@mcs.net
                    ... specializations? ... I don t follow your question... I remember discussing a feature recently where we talked about adding text to any kind of object - is
                    Message 9 of 26 , Jun 4, 2001
                    • 0 Attachment
                      --- In pcgen@y..., "Damian" <westfam@a...> wrote:
                      > Lots of stuff below.
                      >
                      > v Cleverly Disguised As A Responsible Adult,
                      >
                      > Erin
                      >
                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: mocha@m... [mailto:mocha@m...]
                      > Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 9:52 AM
                      > To: pcgen@y...
                      > Subject: [pcgen] Re: The Problems with PCGen and Solutions?
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In pcgen@y..., "Chris Wachal" <cwachal@h...> wrote:

                      >
                      > Are we going to have pop up text fields for nonstandard
                      specializations?
                      > Stuff that's not in the books?

                      I don't follow your question... I remember discussing a feature
                      recently where we talked about adding text to any kind of object - is
                      that what you're referring to? That'll be in the feature request
                      list, but it won't be in 2.0.0. The new version will be quite like
                      PCGen 1.4 in terms of what it can handle - it's mostly a gui facelift
                      and the ability to run on non-Windows OSes that's driving the initial
                      release.



                      > >
                      > > When I say "drag" in these examples, I believe something like
                      the
                      > > current spell system, where you click on something then click a
                      > > button to add it would work too.
                      >
                      > Our drag-n-drop method for equipping, when completed, will look a
                      lot
                      > like a file brower. You'll see objects displayed in a hierarchy,
                      with
                      > containers displayed like a directory. In java this is called a
                      > JTree - so you can actually click on the object and drag it over
                      the
                      > container you want to put it in.
                      >
                      > Going the rout of the old Core Rules stuff, eh? cool, i liked
                      how that
                      > worked, and is what i was going to suggest anyway (or did suggest,
                      my minds
                      > a little glitchy right now). Don't forget to allow containers
                      within
                      > containers, and you COULD give them a HOME container, for stuff
                      they want to
                      > HAVE, but don't carry with them.

                      I've never seen the Core Rules, but it's possible the guy who started
                      that work for me got his inspiration from there. I think he wants to
                      treat everything (and throw in body parts as well...) as containers.
                      That way you can put daggers in your cloak, or on your left ankle, or
                      whatever. Containers will definitely be allowed to be nested - but I
                      think we're planning on having it show what they're carrying and how
                      they're carrying it. If we let you pick different modes (say you
                      take items a-g while in a dungeon crawl, but only items a, d & e
                      while in town. That would be messy to determine your encumberance
                      because I wouldn't know where you were and that would impact your
                      speed et al).



                      > I'm certainly glad to hear your suggestions. PCGen wouldn't have
                      > gotten nearly this far if I'd insisted on only using my own
                      ideas -
                      > many people have come up with absolutely fantastic ideas and have
                      > made coding it a lot of fun. I think that part of what makes
                      PCGen
                      > special is that there's such a strong community effort behind it.
                      > Maybe by the time that GenCon rolls around we'll be up-to-date in
                      > terms of supporting all material that's been released by that
                      time.
                      > That's pretty aggresive, but it's certainly worth a shot. :)
                      >
                      > Grrrrrr. still pissed that i'm not going to be able to go this
                      year. I'm
                      > already savign up for next year.

                      I'm hoping to go to GenCon. I've never gone before and this is its
                      last year in Milwaukee. I'd like to go once just to see what the hub-
                      bub is all about. I joke about making a T-Shirt about PCGen just to
                      see if anyone knows what I'm talking about while I there.... ;)

                      -Bryan

                      >
                      > v Cleverly Disguised As A Responsible Adult,
                      >
                      > Erin
                      >
                      >
                      > -Bryan
                      >
                      > >
                      > > Chris Wachal
                      >
                      >
                      >
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                      >
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                    • Damian
                      I don t follow your question... I remember discussing a feature recently where we talked about adding text to any kind of object - is that what you re
                      Message 10 of 26 , Jun 4, 2001
                      • 0 Attachment

                        I don't follow your question... I remember discussing a feature
                        recently where we talked about adding text to any kind of object - is
                        that what you're referring to?  That'll be in the feature request
                        list, but it won't be in 2.0.0.  The new version will be quite like
                        PCGen 1.4 in terms of what it can handle - it's mostly a gui facelift
                        and the ability to run on non-Windows OSes that's driving the initial
                        release.
                         
                        For instanc you could select Craft, and put "automobile" as the type. 

                        >   >
                        >   >
                        When I say "drag" in these examples, I believe something like
                        the
                        >   > current spell system, where you click on
                        something then click a
                        >   > button to add it would work
                        too.
                        >
                        >   Our drag-n-drop method for equipping, when
                        completed, will look a
                        lot
                        >   like a file brower. You'll
                        see objects displayed in a hierarchy,
                        with
                        >   containers
                        displayed like a directory.  In java this is called a
                        >  
                        JTree - so you can actually click on the object and drag it over
                        the
                        >   container you want to put it in.
                        >
                        >   Going the rout of the old Core Rules stuff, eh?  cool,
                        i liked
                        how that
                        > worked, and is what i was going to suggest anyway
                        (or did suggest,
                        my minds
                        > a little glitchy right now).  Don't
                        forget to allow containers
                        within
                        > containers, and you COULD give
                        them a HOME container, for stuff
                        they want to
                        > HAVE, but don't carry
                        with them.

                        I've never seen the Core Rules, but it's possible the guy who started
                        that work for me got his inspiration from there.  I think he wants to
                        treat everything (and throw in body parts as well...) as containers.
                        That way you can put daggers in your cloak, or on your left ankle, or
                        whatever. Containers will definitely be allowed to be nested - but I
                        think we're planning on having it show what they're carrying and how
                        they're carrying it.  If we let you pick different modes (say you
                        take items a-g while in a dungeon crawl, but only items a, d & e
                        while in town.  That would be messy to determine your encumberance
                        because I wouldn't know where you were and that would impact your
                        speed et al).



                        >   I'm certainly glad to hear your
                        suggestions.  PCGen wouldn't have
                        >   gotten nearly this
                        far if I'd insisted on only using my own
                        ideas -
                        >   many
                        people have come up with absolutely fantastic ideas and have
                        >  
                        made coding it a lot of fun.  I think that part of what makes
                        PCGen
                        >   special is that there's such a strong community
                        effort behind it.
                        >   Maybe by the time that GenCon rolls around
                        we'll be up-to-date in
                        >   terms of supporting all material
                        that's been released by that
                        time.
                        >   That's pretty
                        aggresive, but it's certainly worth a shot. :)
                        >
                        >  
                        Grrrrrr. still pissed that i'm not going to be able to go this
                        year.  I'm
                        > already savign up for next year.

                        I'm hoping to go to GenCon.  I've never gone before and this is its
                        last year in Milwaukee.  I'd like to go once just to see what the hub-
                        bub is all about.  I joke about making a T-Shirt about PCGen just to
                        see if anyone knows what I'm talking about while I there.... ;)

                        -Bryan
                         2002 is the last year.  i checked the wizards.com schedule.  http://www.wizards.com/gencon/2001/future_gencons.asp
                      • Damian
                        v Cleverly Disguised As A Responsible Adult, Erin ... From: Damian [mailto:westfam@awesomenet.net] Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 6:13 PM To:
                        Message 11 of 26 , Jun 4, 2001
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                          v     Cleverly Disguised As A Responsible Adult,

                          Erin

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: Damian [mailto:westfam@...]
                          Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 6:13 PM
                          To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: RE: [pcgen] Re: The Problems with PCGen and Solutions?


                          I don't follow your question... I remember discussing a feature
                          recently where we talked about adding text to any kind of object - is
                          that what you're referring to?  That'll be in the feature request
                          list, but it won't be in 2.0.0.  The new version will be quite like
                          PCGen 1.4 in terms of what it can handle - it's mostly a gui facelift
                          and the ability to run on non-Windows OSes that's driving the initial
                          release.
                           
                          For instanc you could select Craft, and put "automobile" as the type.  
                           
                          That is, in addition to the other choices.  you know, have a "blank" choice that will let you type in it, or you can use the pull down.  better explanaion? 
                        • maggard@aztec.asu.edu
                          A seperate area for Wealth would allow the gems, precious metals, etc. to be in one area. And equipment becomes the tools to do your job. ... desired ...
                          Message 12 of 26 , Jun 4, 2001
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                            A seperate area for Wealth would allow the gems, precious metals,
                            etc. to be in one area. And equipment becomes the tools to do your
                            job.

                            --- In pcgen@y..., mocha@m... wrote:
                            > We've talked about a currency system, and it definitely will get
                            > done, just not for the 2.0.0 release. We'll let you define which
                            > currency is the 'standard', and the 'gold' field in the Items tab
                            > will be tied to how many of those coins you have. All the other
                            > coins will have a cost associated with them, which will give us an
                            > exchange rate. Our thinking was to do this as equipment, but in
                            > thinking about this I realize that the coins would then show up in
                            > the Equipment lists on the charactersheets, which may not be
                            desired
                            > behavior. You could also display them in a separate 'wealth'
                            section
                            > by using the EQTYPE.Coins token, but maybe breaking them out of
                            > equipment into a Wealth object would be a better implementation.
                            > Anyway, the idea is pretty much there, just need to work out the
                            > kinks. :)
                            >
                            > -Bryan
                            >
                            > --- In pcgen@y..., Lonestar <Lonestar@l...> wrote:
                            > > kyc> I'd also like to address the gold issue. If you go under
                            the
                            > misc.
                            > > kyc> tab in the program and put in the amount of gold, silver,
                            > copper, or
                            > > kyc> platinum peices the person in the party has it shows up on
                            the
                            > ROG
                            > > kyc> sheet under gold!
                            > >
                            > > I think currency support is supposed to be on the to-do list.
                            > > It should be possible to have a self defined currency system for
                            > each
                            > > campaign (region?).
                            > > In the Forgotten Realms it is:
                            > > 1 platinum = 10 gold = 100 silver = 1000 copper coins
                            > > In Waterdeep thers the toal (a square brass coin with a central
                            > hole,
                            > > worth 2gp) and the harbor moon (a flat crescent platinum with a
                            > > central hole and an electrum inlay, worth 50 gp in Waterdeep and
                            > 30gp
                            > > elsewhere).
                            > > Then there are trade bars of silver or gold in different weights
                            (1
                            > to
                            > > 10 pounds) and there are some other exotic currencies like the
                            Gond
                            > > bells (small brass bells. worth 10gp in trade and 20gp in Gond
                            > > temples) or the Shaar rings (pierced and polished slices of ivory,
                            > > worth 3gp each) plus an assortment of pearls (used by undersea
                            > > creatures as currency).
                            > >
                            > > Ok, thats a rather complex currency system, but it would be great
                            if
                            > > it would be supported by PCGen ;)
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Lonestar mailto:Lonestar@l...
                          • mocha@mcs.net
                            I see... I think someone already mentioned that this would cause potential problems for Feats like Skill Focus. I am planning on putting in PCGen the ability
                            Message 13 of 26 , Jun 6, 2001
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                              I see... I think someone already mentioned that this would cause
                              potential problems for Feats like Skill Focus. I am planning on
                              putting in PCGen the ability to 'collapse' skills. This has been a
                              long-standing request... basically some skills are related and you
                              don't necessarily always want to see all of them listed. The Filters
                              in PCGen 2.0 get you part of the way since you can pick if you want
                              to see Class skills, Cross-Class, Untrained or Exclusive. But to
                              collapse all the Knowledge skills into one row is also on the board.
                              It won't make the initial release - but you'll see the disabled
                              checkbox which will make it happen at some point... If you really
                              want to select a Knowledge Skill you can uncollapse the skill view,
                              if you want to collapse the hundred billion Knowledge, Craft and
                              Profession skills, just click on the checkbox. It should make
                              naviagating the skill list a lot easier.

                              -Bryan

                              --- In pcgen@y..., "Damian" <westfam@a...> wrote:
                              >
                              > I don't follow your question... I remember discussing a feature
                              > recently where we talked about adding text to any kind of object -
                              is
                              > that what you're referring to? That'll be in the feature request
                              > list, but it won't be in 2.0.0. The new version will be quite like
                              > PCGen 1.4 in terms of what it can handle - it's mostly a gui
                              facelift
                              > and the ability to run on non-Windows OSes that's driving the
                              initial
                              > release.
                              >
                              > For instanc you could select Craft, and put "automobile" as the
                              type.
                            • mocha@mcs.net
                              I think what I ll do is keep wealth (like coins, gems, etc.) in the equipment list to keep purchasing/selling simple. When you produce a character sheet I ll
                              Message 14 of 26 , Jun 6, 2001
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                                I think what I'll do is keep wealth (like coins, gems, etc.) in the
                                equipment list to keep purchasing/selling simple. When you produce a
                                character sheet I'll strip those items out of the equipment list and
                                put them in a separate list with a new token to output them. When
                                the charactersheet is done I'll put them back in the equipment list.
                                I might be able to get this done before the release of 2.0... but I'm
                                not sure.

                                -Bryan

                                --- In pcgen@y..., maggard@a... wrote:
                                > A seperate area for Wealth would allow the gems, precious metals,
                                > etc. to be in one area. And equipment becomes the tools to do your
                                > job.
                                >
                                > --- In pcgen@y..., mocha@m... wrote:
                                > > We've talked about a currency system, and it definitely will get
                                > > done, just not for the 2.0.0 release. We'll let you define which
                                > > currency is the 'standard', and the 'gold' field in the Items tab
                                > > will be tied to how many of those coins you have. All the other
                                > > coins will have a cost associated with them, which will give us
                                an
                                > > exchange rate. Our thinking was to do this as equipment, but in
                                > > thinking about this I realize that the coins would then show up
                                in
                                > > the Equipment lists on the charactersheets, which may not be
                                > desired
                                > > behavior. You could also display them in a separate 'wealth'
                                > section
                                > > by using the EQTYPE.Coins token, but maybe breaking them out of
                                > > equipment into a Wealth object would be a better implementation.
                                > > Anyway, the idea is pretty much there, just need to work out the
                                > > kinks. :)
                                > >
                                > > -Bryan
                                > >
                                > > --- In pcgen@y..., Lonestar <Lonestar@l...> wrote:
                                > > > kyc> I'd also like to address the gold issue. If you go under
                                > the
                                > > misc.
                                > > > kyc> tab in the program and put in the amount of gold, silver,
                                > > copper, or
                                > > > kyc> platinum peices the person in the party has it shows up on
                                > the
                                > > ROG
                                > > > kyc> sheet under gold!
                                > > >
                                > > > I think currency support is supposed to be on the to-do list.
                                > > > It should be possible to have a self defined currency system
                                for
                                > > each
                                > > > campaign (region?).
                                > > > In the Forgotten Realms it is:
                                > > > 1 platinum = 10 gold = 100 silver = 1000 copper coins
                                > > > In Waterdeep thers the toal (a square brass coin with a central
                                > > hole,
                                > > > worth 2gp) and the harbor moon (a flat crescent platinum with a
                                > > > central hole and an electrum inlay, worth 50 gp in Waterdeep
                                and
                                > > 30gp
                                > > > elsewhere).
                                > > > Then there are trade bars of silver or gold in different
                                weights
                                > (1
                                > > to
                                > > > 10 pounds) and there are some other exotic currencies like the
                                > Gond
                                > > > bells (small brass bells. worth 10gp in trade and 20gp in Gond
                                > > > temples) or the Shaar rings (pierced and polished slices of
                                ivory,
                                > > > worth 3gp each) plus an assortment of pearls (used by undersea
                                > > > creatures as currency).
                                > > >
                                > > > Ok, thats a rather complex currency system, but it would be
                                great
                                > if
                                > > > it would be supported by PCGen ;)
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > Lonestar mailto:Lonestar@l...
                              • maggard@aztec.asu.edu
                                Any chance of taking this one step further so you can collaps different levels of each skills? e.g. + Craft Skills - Knowledge Skills + A - D + E - H + I - L +
                                Message 15 of 26 , Jun 6, 2001
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                                  Any chance of taking this one step further so you can collaps
                                  different levels of each skills?
                                  e.g.
                                  + Craft Skills
                                  - Knowledge Skills
                                  + A - D
                                  + E - H
                                  + I - L
                                  + M - p
                                  + Q - T
                                  + U - Z
                                  + Profession Skills


                                  --- In pcgen@y..., mocha@m... wrote:
                                  > I see... I think someone already mentioned that this would cause
                                  > potential problems for Feats like Skill Focus. I am planning on
                                  > putting in PCGen the ability to 'collapse' skills. This has been a
                                  > long-standing request... basically some skills are related and you
                                  > don't necessarily always want to see all of them listed. The
                                  Filters
                                  > in PCGen 2.0 get you part of the way since you can pick if you want
                                  > to see Class skills, Cross-Class, Untrained or Exclusive. But to
                                  > collapse all the Knowledge skills into one row is also on the
                                  board.
                                  > It won't make the initial release - but you'll see the disabled
                                  > checkbox which will make it happen at some point... If you really
                                  > want to select a Knowledge Skill you can uncollapse the skill view,
                                  > if you want to collapse the hundred billion Knowledge, Craft and
                                  > Profession skills, just click on the checkbox. It should make
                                  > naviagating the skill list a lot easier.
                                  >
                                  > -Bryan
                                • Chris Wachal
                                  ... have ... feat ... any ... displayed. ... of ... to ... I agree, however, I like to be able to see the feats I currently have in a quick list so that I can
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Jun 6, 2001
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                                    > The feats tab looks very different - most tabs (feats included) are
                                    > dominated by a table displaying all the relevant info. For feats
                                    > this means whether or not you qualify for it, it's name, how you
                                    have
                                    > it (virtual, no, yes), any pre-requisites, it's description and
                                    > source file. The options (virtual, yes, no) is actually a button,
                                    > and by clicking on the button you're selecting/de-selecting the
                                    feat
                                    > (any choices related to it are then presented). You can sort by
                                    any
                                    > column in the table (same for all tables in PCGen except for the
                                    > stats table) and you can even filter out which feats are
                                    displayed.
                                    > Our API will be open, so your friend would be able to construct his
                                    > own interface if he wanted to. A largely drag-and-drop type
                                    > interface would certainly be a good choice, but I like the amount
                                    of
                                    > info you can provide in a table. It also gives you more sorting
                                    > options than you'd have in a drag-n-drop solution. Just comes down
                                    to
                                    > preferences.
                                    >

                                    I agree, however, I like to be able to see the feats I currently have
                                    in a quick list so that I can see "I've spend 2 feats on toughness, I
                                    already have power attack, hmm...I guess I could take cleave" and
                                    then search for the feat in the list.

                                    Also, being able to quickly bypass feats that I can not take would be
                                    handy, either being able to filter them out or make them greyed out,
                                    it is not easy to see the * beside it.


                                    > All tables (minus one) will be sortable by every column, so that
                                    > request is already handled.:) I have big plans on how to change
                                    the
                                    > equipping functionality, but we just didn't have time to get that
                                    in
                                    > this initial release. The way I want to handle it is via a drag-n-
                                    > drop type interface which is very intuitive - I also plan on
                                    handling
                                    > putting stuff in containers all in the same interface... so we'll
                                    get
                                    > there, just not in 2.0.0 (maybe 2.0.1, but we'll see...) :)
                                    >

                                    I'm glad to hear this. This should all work out good. I do think
                                    that the feature of Master Tools to set up "Sets" of equipment for
                                    things like "what are my pluses with 2 weapons", "what about with a
                                    weapon and a shield?".

                                    If the equipment section isn't changing in the next version, could
                                    you at least add a button to add one to the currently selected
                                    equipment? Also, supporting shield proficiencies would be handy.


                                    > I take it you like drag-n-drop? :) My preference is definitely on
                                    > the table side. Technically everyone has all skills (except
                                    > exclusive ones) because ranks are really just modifiers, whereas
                                    drag-
                                    > n-drop would indicate that you don't have the skill at all unless
                                    you
                                    > allocate at least one skill-point to it. I like the table
                                    > presentation because I can display in one column your total,
                                    > modifiers, ranks and whatnot and you can sort on any of them. You
                                    > can also use a filter to filter on just class-skills, cross-class
                                    > skills, exclusive or untrained. I think you'll like it. :)
                                    >

                                    That is technically incorrect. All players have all the untrained
                                    skills, however that is less than half the list. You need to have at
                                    least 1 rank in a trained skill to be able to use that skill.

                                    Having a list of available skills and ones you have access to would
                                    be handy. Maybe start the skill list of skills you already have with
                                    all of the untrained skills. This way newbies can see "Oh, I already
                                    have swim at 4 total because I have an 18 strength, but I can't play
                                    an instrument yet." I think for newbies, it helps to be able to
                                    see "these are all the skills I can use, and these are the ones I
                                    can't".

                                    For us who play DND a lot, it is easy to just say "I know that any
                                    skill that has a cost of 1.0 is a class skill and anyone with a cost
                                    of 2.0 is a cross classed skill." Being able to filter the skill
                                    list to "untrained, trained, class skills, cross-class skills,
                                    exclusive, and all" would be handy.

                                    Also, I want to make a request for my friend. He apparently hates
                                    clicking an add button, he wants to be able to enter the number of
                                    ranks in a field for a skill.


                                    > As ROG mentioned - this is a charactersheet issue. The GOLD token
                                    > does this, but the wealth issue is about to get a face-lift
                                    > afterwhich time ROG will add those tokens to his charactersheet.
                                    >

                                    I now know about the gold issue. I thought there might have been the
                                    capability to put them on the character sheet. I just thought it
                                    kind of strange that the program had that capability and it didn't
                                    print it.


                                    > >
                                    > > 5. I would like to request the ability to add a bonus to all
                                    skills
                                    > > based off of one attribute like "+2 to all charisma based
                                    skills".
                                    > I
                                    > > don't know if you can already do this, however, right now the
                                    > circlet
                                    > > of persuasion is listed as +2 to charisma instead of +2 to all
                                    > > charisma based skills.
                                    >
                                    > Ah - then it should really be +4 to charisma to give a +2 mod.
                                    >

                                    That doesn't work correctly, however. A +4 charisma does add the
                                    correct modifier to all your skills, however it also adds +2 to your
                                    spell DCs if you are a sorcerer and your saves if you are a paladin.
                                    The circlet isn't supposed to do that.

                                    Right now, I have made a work around on my system by changing the
                                    circlet of persuasion to add plus 2 to every charisma based skill
                                    individually, however if anyone adds another charisma based skill in
                                    a LST file, the circlet would not add to that.

                                    A function to do something like "Add 2 to all skills based off of any
                                    one stat" would be handy.


                                    > I'm certainly glad to hear your suggestions. PCGen wouldn't have
                                    > gotten nearly this far if I'd insisted on only using my own ideas -
                                    > many people have come up with absolutely fantastic ideas and have
                                    > made coding it a lot of fun. I think that part of what makes PCGen
                                    > special is that there's such a strong community effort behind it.
                                    > Maybe by the time that GenCon rolls around we'll be up-to-date in
                                    > terms of supporting all material that's been released by that
                                    time.
                                    > That's pretty aggresive, but it's certainly worth a shot. :)
                                    >
                                    > -Bryan

                                    No problem, I like trying to help. I take no offense at any
                                    criticism of my comments either, they may not be the best way to do
                                    things, but I think they will help.

                                    Chris Wachal
                                  • nezzir@home.com
                                    Someone mentioned there was a box to check that would include all skills on the html page. Right now it just shows the ones I have put points in...
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Jun 7, 2001
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                                      Someone mentioned there was a box to check that would include all skills on
                                      the html page. Right now it just shows the ones I have put points in...
                                    • mocha@mcs.net
                                      In the main tab where you select options there s a checkbox for Include Untrained Skills. If you click on this *BEFORE* you import or create a new character,
                                      Message 18 of 26 , Jun 8, 2001
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                                        In the main tab where you select options there's a checkbox for
                                        Include Untrained Skills. If you click on this *BEFORE* you import
                                        or create a new character, all the untrained skills will be added to
                                        your character. In PCGen 2.0.0 this has been expanded slightly to a
                                        selection box where you can pick None (meaning no extra skills),
                                        Untrained (like clicking on this checkbox) and All (you get
                                        everything, trained & exclusive...)

                                        -Bryan

                                        --- In pcgen@y..., "nezzir@h..." <nezzir@h...> wrote:
                                        > Someone mentioned there was a box to check that would include all
                                        skills on
                                        > the html page. Right now it just shows the ones I have put points
                                        in...
                                      • Gary
                                        There s also items like the luck stone and an ioun stone that give you a +1 to stat checks or a +1 to ALL skill checks. We d rather not have to specify each
                                        Message 19 of 26 , Jun 8, 2001
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                                          There's also items like the luck stone and an ioun stone that give you
                                          a +1 to stat checks or a +1 to ALL skill checks. We'd rather not have
                                          to specify each skill on those items. I'm sure more will crop up.

                                          --- In pcgen@y..., "House Gryphon" <gryps@b...> wrote:
                                          > ----- Original Message -----
                                          > From: "Chris Wachal" <cwachal@h...>
                                          > > Right now, I have made a work around on my system by changing the
                                          > > circlet of persuasion to add plus 2 to every charisma based skill
                                          > > individually, however if anyone adds another charisma based skill
                                          in
                                          > > a LST file, the circlet would not add to that.
                                          > > A function to do something like "Add 2 to all skills based off of
                                          any
                                          > > one stat" would be handy.
                                          >
                                          > Actually, this may be the best way to do it.
                                          >
                                          > The condition "skills based off a stat" is just one of the many
                                          weird and
                                          > wonderful combinations that could crop up.
                                          >
                                          > My view is that:
                                          > * It is a waste coding for all the possibilities that may never crop
                                          up.
                                          > * If there is only one item like this it is easier to modify the
                                          item,
                                          > rather than add more complex functionality to the software - change
                                          the LST
                                          > data file isn't too difficult.
                                          > * Once a bit of functionality becomes common, then it is worth it to
                                          add to
                                          > a new version of the software.
                                          >
                                          > Question: Are there more items like the circlet ??? Most of the
                                          others I
                                          > can think of off the top of my head add to stats, not skills (eg
                                          Potion of
                                          > Cat's Grace, Girdle of Giant Strength, etc).
                                          >
                                          > - Sly
                                        • mocha@mcs.net
                                          I think BONUS:SKILL|LIST|1 would work for this. At least I think it ought to... let me know if it doesn t! -Bryan ... you ... have ... the ... skill ... skill
                                          Message 20 of 26 , Jun 8, 2001
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                                            I think BONUS:SKILL|LIST|1 would work for this. At least I think it
                                            ought to... let me know if it doesn't!

                                            -Bryan

                                            --- In pcgen@y..., "Gary" <dinthron@y...> wrote:
                                            > There's also items like the luck stone and an ioun stone that give
                                            you
                                            > a +1 to stat checks or a +1 to ALL skill checks. We'd rather not
                                            have
                                            > to specify each skill on those items. I'm sure more will crop up.
                                            >
                                            > --- In pcgen@y..., "House Gryphon" <gryps@b...> wrote:
                                            > > ----- Original Message -----
                                            > > From: "Chris Wachal" <cwachal@h...>
                                            > > > Right now, I have made a work around on my system by changing
                                            the
                                            > > > circlet of persuasion to add plus 2 to every charisma based
                                            skill
                                            > > > individually, however if anyone adds another charisma based
                                            skill
                                            > in
                                            > > > a LST file, the circlet would not add to that.
                                            > > > A function to do something like "Add 2 to all skills based off
                                            of
                                            > any
                                            > > > one stat" would be handy.
                                            > >
                                            > > Actually, this may be the best way to do it.
                                            > >
                                            > > The condition "skills based off a stat" is just one of the many
                                            > weird and
                                            > > wonderful combinations that could crop up.
                                            > >
                                            > > My view is that:
                                            > > * It is a waste coding for all the possibilities that may never
                                            crop
                                            > up.
                                            > > * If there is only one item like this it is easier to modify the
                                            > item,
                                            > > rather than add more complex functionality to the software -
                                            change
                                            > the LST
                                            > > data file isn't too difficult.
                                            > > * Once a bit of functionality becomes common, then it is worth it
                                            to
                                            > add to
                                            > > a new version of the software.
                                            > >
                                            > > Question: Are there more items like the circlet ??? Most of the
                                            > others I
                                            > > can think of off the top of my head add to stats, not skills (eg
                                            > Potion of
                                            > > Cat's Grace, Girdle of Giant Strength, etc).
                                            > >
                                            > > - Sly
                                          • john.sussenberger@libertymutual.com
                                            Even more reason to have this coded :) Then I can make cool magic items that increase your Charisma skillz!! ... From: Gary [mailto:dinthron@yahoo.com] Sent:
                                            Message 21 of 26 , Jun 8, 2001
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                                              Even more reason to have this coded :)
                                               
                                              Then I can make cool magic items that increase your Charisma skillz!!
                                              -----Original Message-----
                                              From: Gary [mailto:dinthron@...]
                                              Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 2:01 PM
                                              To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subject: [pcgen] Re: Magic items that modify skills

                                              There's also items like the luck stone and an ioun stone that give you
                                              a +1 to stat checks or a +1 to ALL skill checks.  We'd rather not have
                                              to specify each skill on those items.  I'm sure more will crop up.

                                              --- In pcgen@y..., "House Gryphon" <gryps@b...> wrote:
                                              > ----- Original Message -----
                                              > From: "Chris Wachal" <cwachal@h...>
                                              > > Right now, I have made a work around on my system by changing the
                                              > > circlet of persuasion to add plus 2 to every charisma based skill
                                              > > individually, however if anyone adds another charisma based skill
                                              in
                                              > > a LST file, the circlet would not add to that.
                                              > > A function to do something like "Add 2 to all skills based off of
                                              any
                                              > > one stat" would be handy.
                                              >
                                              > Actually, this may be the best way to do it.
                                              >
                                              > The condition "skills based off a stat" is just one of the many
                                              weird and
                                              > wonderful combinations that could crop up.
                                              >
                                              > My view is that:
                                              > * It is a waste coding for all the possibilities that may never crop
                                              up.
                                              > * If there is only one item like this it is easier to modify the
                                              item,
                                              > rather than add more complex functionality to the software - change
                                              the LST
                                              > data file isn't too difficult.
                                              > * Once a bit of functionality becomes common, then it is worth it to
                                              add to
                                              > a new version of the software.
                                              >
                                              > Question: Are there more items like the circlet ???  Most of the
                                              others I
                                              > can think of off the top of my head add to stats, not skills (eg
                                              Potion of
                                              > Cat's Grace, Girdle of Giant Strength, etc).
                                              >
                                              > - Sly



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                                            • mocha@mcs.net
                                              Hm - something like BONUS:SKILL|CHA|1 would be easy to do - what s the likelihood of a skill named STR,DEX,CON,INT,WIS or CHA? That would take almost a whole
                                              Message 22 of 26 , Jun 8, 2001
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                                                Hm - something like BONUS:SKILL|CHA|1 would be easy to do - what's
                                                the likelihood of a skill named STR,DEX,CON,INT,WIS or CHA?
                                                That would take almost a whole line of code to implement...

                                                -Bryan

                                                --- In pcgen@y..., john.sussenberger@l... wrote:
                                                > Even more reason to have this coded :)
                                                >
                                                > Then I can make cool magic items that increase your Charisma
                                                skillz!!
                                                >
                                                > -----Original Message-----
                                                > From: Gary [mailto:dinthron@y...]
                                                > Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 2:01 PM
                                                > To: pcgen@y...
                                                > Subject: [pcgen] Re: Magic items that modify skills
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > There's also items like the luck stone and an ioun stone that give
                                                you
                                                > a +1 to stat checks or a +1 to ALL skill checks. We'd rather not
                                                have
                                                > to specify each skill on those items. I'm sure more will crop up.
                                                >
                                                > --- In pcgen@y..., "House Gryphon" <gryps@b...> wrote:
                                                > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                > > From: "Chris Wachal" <cwachal@h...>
                                                > > > Right now, I have made a work around on my system by changing
                                                the
                                                > > > circlet of persuasion to add plus 2 to every charisma based
                                                skill
                                                > > > individually, however if anyone adds another charisma based
                                                skill
                                                > in
                                                > > > a LST file, the circlet would not add to that.
                                                > > > A function to do something like "Add 2 to all skills based off
                                                of
                                                > any
                                                > > > one stat" would be handy.
                                                > >
                                                > > Actually, this may be the best way to do it.
                                                > >
                                                > > The condition "skills based off a stat" is just one of the many
                                                > weird and
                                                > > wonderful combinations that could crop up.
                                                > >
                                                > > My view is that:
                                                > > * It is a waste coding for all the possibilities that may never
                                                crop
                                                > up.
                                                > > * If there is only one item like this it is easier to modify the
                                                > item,
                                                > > rather than add more complex functionality to the software -
                                                change
                                                > the LST
                                                > > data file isn't too difficult.
                                                > > * Once a bit of functionality becomes common, then it is worth it
                                                to
                                                > add to
                                                > > a new version of the software.
                                                > >
                                                > > Question: Are there more items like the circlet ??? Most of the
                                                > others I
                                                > > can think of off the top of my head add to stats, not skills (eg
                                                > Potion of
                                                > > Cat's Grace, Girdle of Giant Strength, etc).
                                                > >
                                                > > - Sly
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
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                                              • Gary
                                                I tried this, and it didn t work. So I m letting you know. Ioun Stone (Pale green) TYPE:Magic Item.Wonderous Cost:20000 WT:0
                                                Message 23 of 26 , Jun 16, 2001
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                                                  I tried this, and it didn't work. So I'm letting you know.

                                                  Ioun Stone (Pale green) TYPE:Magic Item.Wonderous Cost:20000
                                                  WT:0 BONUS:CHECKS|Fortitude,Willpower,Reflex|1
                                                  BONUS:WEAPON|TOHIT|1 BONUS:WEAPONPROF=Unarmed Attack|TOHIT|1
                                                  BONUS:SKILL|LIST|1

                                                  The description says it gives +1 bonus to attacks, saving throws and
                                                  skill checks.

                                                  --- In pcgen@y..., mocha@m... wrote:
                                                  > I think BONUS:SKILL|LIST|1 would work for this. At least I think it
                                                  > ought to... let me know if it doesn't!
                                                  >
                                                  > -Bryan
                                                  >
                                                  > --- In pcgen@y..., "Gary" <dinthron@y...> wrote:
                                                  > > There's also items like the luck stone and an ioun stone that give
                                                  > you
                                                  > > a +1 to stat checks or a +1 to ALL skill checks. We'd rather not
                                                  > have
                                                  > > to specify each skill on those items. I'm sure more will crop up.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > --- In pcgen@y..., "House Gryphon" <gryps@b...> wrote:
                                                  > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                  > > > From: "Chris Wachal" <cwachal@h...>
                                                  > > > > Right now, I have made a work around on my system by changing
                                                  > the
                                                  > > > > circlet of persuasion to add plus 2 to every charisma based
                                                  > skill
                                                  > > > > individually, however if anyone adds another charisma based
                                                  > skill
                                                  > > in
                                                  > > > > a LST file, the circlet would not add to that.
                                                  > > > > A function to do something like "Add 2 to all skills based off
                                                  > of
                                                  > > any
                                                  > > > > one stat" would be handy.
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > Actually, this may be the best way to do it.
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > The condition "skills based off a stat" is just one of the many
                                                  > > weird and
                                                  > > > wonderful combinations that could crop up.
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > My view is that:
                                                  > > > * It is a waste coding for all the possibilities that may never
                                                  > crop
                                                  > > up.
                                                  > > > * If there is only one item like this it is easier to modify the
                                                  > > item,
                                                  > > > rather than add more complex functionality to the software -
                                                  > change
                                                  > > the LST
                                                  > > > data file isn't too difficult.
                                                  > > > * Once a bit of functionality becomes common, then it is worth
                                                  it
                                                  > to
                                                  > > add to
                                                  > > > a new version of the software.
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > Question: Are there more items like the circlet ??? Most of the
                                                  > > others I
                                                  > > > can think of off the top of my head add to stats, not skills (eg
                                                  > > Potion of
                                                  > > > Cat's Grace, Girdle of Giant Strength, etc).
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > - Sly
                                                • Brass Tilde
                                                  ... _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
                                                  Message 24 of 26 , Jun 16, 2001
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                                                    > -----Original Message-----
                                                    > From: Gary [mailto:dinthron@...]
                                                    >
                                                    > I tried this, and it didn't work. So I'm letting you know.
                                                    >
                                                    > Ioun Stone (Pale green) TYPE:Magic Item.Wonderous Cost:20000
                                                    > WT:0 BONUS:CHECKS|Fortitude,Willpower,Reflex|1
                                                    > BONUS:WEAPON|TOHIT|1 BONUS:WEAPONPROF=Unarmed Attack|TOHIT|1
                                                    > BONUS:SKILL|LIST|1
                                                    >

                                                    This bug has been entered at the SourceForge site as bug report #433808.

                                                    You may access the SourceForge bug tracking page at:
                                                    https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?group_id=25576&atid=384719

                                                    _________________________________________________________
                                                    Do You Yahoo!?
                                                    Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com
                                                  • House Gryphon
                                                    ... From: Chris Wachal ... Actually, this may be the best way to do it. The condition skills based off a stat is just one of the many
                                                    Message 25 of 26 , Jun 23, 2001
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                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                      From: "Chris Wachal" <cwachal@...>
                                                      > Right now, I have made a work around on my system by changing the
                                                      > circlet of persuasion to add plus 2 to every charisma based skill
                                                      > individually, however if anyone adds another charisma based skill in
                                                      > a LST file, the circlet would not add to that.
                                                      > A function to do something like "Add 2 to all skills based off of any
                                                      > one stat" would be handy.

                                                      Actually, this may be the best way to do it.

                                                      The condition "skills based off a stat" is just one of the many weird and
                                                      wonderful combinations that could crop up.

                                                      My view is that:
                                                      * It is a waste coding for all the possibilities that may never crop up.
                                                      * If there is only one item like this it is easier to modify the item,
                                                      rather than add more complex functionality to the software - change the LST
                                                      data file isn't too difficult.
                                                      * Once a bit of functionality becomes common, then it is worth it to add to
                                                      a new version of the software.

                                                      Question: Are there more items like the circlet ??? Most of the others I
                                                      can think of off the top of my head add to stats, not skills (eg Potion of
                                                      Cat's Grace, Girdle of Giant Strength, etc).

                                                      - Sly
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