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Re: [pcgen] v414 - AC still off

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  • John Rudd
    ... Uncanny Dodge doesn t raise your general AC. At 10th level it gives you a +1 dodge bonus to AC _against_attacks_from_traps_. At 13th level that increases
    Message 1 of 19 , Nov 3, 2002
      > From: "Patrick R. Sklenar" <pat@...>
      >
      > Good morning,
      >
      > I've been out of town and just got home last night. DL'd and
      > tried v414 this morning (completely clean installation). My 1/2 Orc
      > Barbarian that should have a 22 AC is still showing 21. I believe it
      > should be 22 based on:
      >
      > 10 normal base AC
      > 2 DEX (due to Uncanny Dodge)
      > 6 +1 Chainmail
      > 4 +2 Large Shield
      >

      Uncanny Dodge doesn't raise your general AC. At 10th level it gives
      you a +1 dodge bonus to AC _against_attacks_from_traps_. At 13th level
      that increases to a +2. IMO, PCGen is doing the right thing by not
      including that bonus in the AC calculation. The AC field should be your
      general AC, not situational AC.

      Though, it might be nice to have a "Trap AC" to go along with "Flatfooted"
      and "Touch" AC's.
    • Patrick R. Sklenar
      ... When in relation to Barbarian, it *does* add the DEX to the base AC at all times (including vs invisible and when caught flatfooted) unless he s
      Message 2 of 19 , Nov 3, 2002
        On Sun, 3 Nov 2002 09:39:09 -0800 (PST), John Rudd wrote:

        > Uncanny Dodge doesn't raise your general AC. ...

        When in relation to Barbarian, it *does* add the DEX to the
        base AC at all times (including vs invisible and when caught
        flatfooted) unless he's immobilized. The full write up is on page 25
        of the first printing of the 3E PHB.

        No, the problem isn't the Uncanny Dodge, it's the armor/shield
        enchantment not stacking properly. PCGen v273 & v300 both calculated
        everything correctly. It broke sometime between v300 and v412. :(

        --
        pat----

        pat@... ---===--- http://www.sklenar.info
      • krazhit
        You are correct, armor/shield enchantments do not stack in the latest release. I *think* I saw Bryan mentioning this is fixed in the latest autobuilds, and
        Message 3 of 19 , Nov 3, 2002
          You are correct, armor/shield enchantments do not stack in the latest
          release.

          I *think* I saw Bryan mentioning this is fixed in the latest
          autobuilds, and thus should be correct in 4.15 out next week.

          I have not seen any reason why armor and shield were combined into
          the same variable, WOTC has separate boxes on their official sheets!
          (Th reason might be, we you look at the rules there actually is no
          special "shield bonus" but what do I know?)

          --- In pcgen@y..., "Patrick R. Sklenar" <pat@s...> wrote:
          > On Sun, 3 Nov 2002 09:39:09 -0800 (PST), John Rudd wrote:
          >
          > > Uncanny Dodge doesn't raise your general AC. ...
          >
          > When in relation to Barbarian, it *does* add the DEX to the
          > base AC at all times (including vs invisible and when caught
          > flatfooted) unless he's immobilized. The full write up is on page
          25
          > of the first printing of the 3E PHB.
          >
          > No, the problem isn't the Uncanny Dodge, it's the armor/shield
          > enchantment not stacking properly. PCGen v273 & v300 both
          calculated
          > everything correctly. It broke sometime between v300 and v412. :(
          >
          > --
          > pat----
          >
          > pat@s... ---===--- http://www.sklenar.info
        • Barak
          ... Programming issues is the answer on this one. Bryan is aware of it, but it s not that high on the priority list right now. Eventually, it will be taken
          Message 4 of 19 , Nov 3, 2002
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: krazhit [mailto:here@...]

            > I have not seen any reason why armor and shield were combined into
            > the same variable, WOTC has separate boxes on their official

            Programming issues is the answer on this one.

            Bryan is aware of it, but it's not that high on the priority list right
            now. Eventually, it will be taken care of.

            Barak
            Output Sheet Chimp
            LST Gibbon
          • Chris Yoder
            Ok, how do I install PCGen? Clangador
            Message 5 of 19 , Nov 3, 2002
              Ok, how do I install PCGen?

              Clangador
            • Patrick R. Sklenar
              ... Me? Correct? Ack! A sign of the Apocalypse! :) ... Cool! Thanks for the good news! -- pat---- pat@sklenar.info ---===--- http://www.sklenar.info
              Message 6 of 19 , Nov 3, 2002
                On Sun, 03 Nov 2002 19:03:51 -0000, krazhit wrote:

                > You are correct, armor/shield enchantments do not stack in the latest
                > release.

                Me? Correct? Ack! A sign of the Apocalypse! :)


                > I *think* I saw Bryan mentioning this is fixed in the latest
                > autobuilds, and thus should be correct in 4.15 out next week.

                Cool! Thanks for the good news!

                --
                pat----

                pat@... ---===--- http://www.sklenar.info
              • Kevin Colagio
                ... Download the 3 files and install them into the same directory. Just use a decompression program (winzip, etc) to drop them into a common directory (on a
                Message 7 of 19 , Nov 3, 2002
                  --- In pcgen@y..., "Chris Yoder" <Clangador@a...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Ok, how do I install PCGen?

                  Download the 3 files and install them into the same directory. Just
                  use a decompression program (winzip, etc) to drop them into a common
                  directory (on a windows box, c:\pcgen works well ;) ).

                  The zip files will maintain the proper directory tree as long as you
                  uncompress them into the same location.

                  Kevin Colagio
                • John Rudd
                  ... Then I think your original message was poorly worded. Either you were talking about general AC (in which case the foot note about uncanny dodge wasn t
                  Message 8 of 19 , Nov 3, 2002
                    > From: "Patrick R. Sklenar" <pat@...>
                    >
                    > On Sun, 3 Nov 2002 09:39:09 -0800 (PST), John Rudd wrote:
                    >
                    > > Uncanny Dodge doesn't raise your general AC. ...
                    >
                    > When in relation to Barbarian, it *does* add the DEX to the
                    > base AC at all times (including vs invisible and when caught
                    > flatfooted) unless he's immobilized. The full write up is on page 25
                    > of the first printing of the 3E PHB.


                    Then I think your original message was poorly worded. Either you were
                    talking about general AC (in which case the foot note about uncanny
                    dodge wasn't relevant), or you were talking about flatfooted AC without
                    having indicated that (you merely referenced AC, not flatfooted AC).

                    Though, it sounds like there is an actual AC calc problem right now.
                  • John Rudd
                    Ah, wait, my bad, you did reference flatfooted way down at the bottom. It just didn t seem to indicate that you were talking about that when you were
                    Message 9 of 19 , Nov 3, 2002
                      Ah, wait, my bad, you did reference flatfooted way down at the bottom.
                      It just didn't seem to indicate that you were talking about that when
                      you were presenting the numbers.


                      John
                    • Patrick R. Sklenar
                      ... And that s a surprise? :) ... Actually, both are off by 1. Which is probably what led to my ambiguous description of my problem. ... Yep. Cool. Means
                      Message 10 of 19 , Nov 3, 2002
                        On Sun, 3 Nov 2002 14:41:36 -0800 (PST), John Rudd wrote:

                        > Then I think your original message was poorly worded. ...

                        And that's a surprise? :)


                        > ... Either you were talking about general AC (in which case the foot
                        > note about uncanny dodge wasn't relevant), or you were talking about
                        > flatfooted AC without having indicated that (you merely referenced
                        > AC, not flatfooted AC).

                        Actually, both are off by 1. Which is probably what led to my
                        ambiguous description of my problem.


                        > Though, it sounds like there is an actual AC calc problem right now.

                        Yep. Cool. Means I'm only crazy, and not dumb too. ;)


                        --
                        pat----

                        pat@... ---===--- http://www.sklenar.info
                      • krazhit
                        ... Just out of curiosity, why? Correct AC is one of the basic core requirements to have a functional, useable character. (What actually dictates the priority
                        Message 11 of 19 , Nov 4, 2002
                          --- In pcgen@y..., "Barak" <barak@v...> wrote:
                          > > -----Original Message-----
                          > > From: krazhit [mailto:here@h...]
                          >
                          > > I have not seen any reason why armor and shield were combined
                          > > into the same variable, WOTC has separate boxes on their official
                          >
                          > Programming issues is the answer on this one.
                          >
                          > Bryan is aware of it, but it's not that high on the priority list
                          > right now. Eventually, it will be taken care of.

                          Just out of curiosity, why?
                          Correct AC is one of the basic core requirements to have a
                          functional, useable character.
                          (What actually dictates the priority of functions / enhancements?)

                          > Barak
                          > Output Sheet Chimp
                          > LST Gibbon
                        • merton_monk
                          ... official ... I m the Dictator, so I dictate the priority. :) The total AC is correct, at least I m not aware of any problem with that - I m only aware that
                          Message 12 of 19 , Nov 4, 2002
                            --- In pcgen@y..., "krazhit" <here@h...> wrote:
                            > --- In pcgen@y..., "Barak" <barak@v...> wrote:
                            > > > -----Original Message-----
                            > > > From: krazhit [mailto:here@h...]
                            > >
                            > > > I have not seen any reason why armor and shield were combined
                            > > > into the same variable, WOTC has separate boxes on their
                            official
                            > >
                            > > Programming issues is the answer on this one.
                            > >
                            > > Bryan is aware of it, but it's not that high on the priority list
                            > > right now. Eventually, it will be taken care of.
                            >
                            > Just out of curiosity, why?
                            > Correct AC is one of the basic core requirements to have a
                            > functional, useable character.
                            > (What actually dictates the priority of functions / enhancements?)

                            I'm the Dictator, so I dictate the priority. :)

                            The total AC is correct, at least I'm not aware of any problem with
                            that - I'm only aware that there might be problems with the touch and
                            flat AC calcs, though I haven't seen a post which details the
                            problem, and I haven't seen a bug entered for it either. I can't
                            keep track of all the posts here - so my apologies if a post has
                            detailed it here and I simply didn't see it! Breaking the AC
                            component into armor and shield components isn't necessary for any AC
                            calcs we do. If we really wanted to show that, we could simply
                            create a BONUS:VAR|SHIELDAC|x value for the shields that was
                            equivalent to its AC bonus. For magic shields you might need to come
                            up with new eqmods for +1 to +5 that added to the
                            BONUS:COMBAT|AC|x|TYPE=Armor.REPLACE and to BONUS:VAR|SHIELDAC so
                            that in the "Armor" box we could have some java script which would
                            display the value as what we have now minus BONUS.VAR.SHIELDAC.TOTAL
                            and then in the "Shield" box we would just need
                            BONUS.VAR.SHIELDAC.TOTAL. So this could be handled via some data and
                            output sheet changes. From a coding perspective it'd be harder to
                            make changes because I'd have to tell PCGen that 'shield' bonuses
                            stack with 'armor' bonuses, and I'd rather not do that, so a data-
                            output sheet type solution is preferable. Let me know if someone
                            sees a flaw in my suggestion... this is just off the top of my head!

                            -Bryan


                            >
                            > > Barak
                            > > Output Sheet Chimp
                            > > LST Gibbon
                          • Geoff
                            I have been having Total AC problems for several versions now...I ve stopped using PCGen until it s fixed except when absolutely necessary, since I have to
                            Message 13 of 19 , Nov 4, 2002
                              I have been having Total AC problems for several versions now...I've
                              stopped using PCGen until it's fixed except when absolutely
                              necessary, since I have to hand-edit the HTML to get usable character
                              sheets. (I almost went into a big fight with all the NPCs ACs being 1-
                              5 below what they should have been!)

                              I will post a sample character shortly. Hm, seems to really be broken
                              now...flat AC is 538, total AC is 22 when it should be 21/23.


                              --- In pcgen@y..., "merton_monk" <merton_monk@y...> wrote:
                              > The total AC is correct, at least I'm not aware of any problem with
                              > that - I'm only aware that there might be problems with the touch
                              and
                              > flat AC calcs, though I haven't seen a post which details the
                              > problem, and I haven't seen a bug entered for it either
                            • Felipe F. Diniz
                              Geoff, i just got your character, and it displays ok here (flat=21, touch=12, total=23). Maybe you should get the latest alpha and check it there... Felipe
                              Message 14 of 19 , Nov 4, 2002
                                Geoff, i just got your character, and it displays ok here (flat=21,
                                touch=12, total=23). Maybe you should get the latest alpha and check
                                it there...


                                Felipe Diniz

                                --- In pcgen@y..., "Geoff" <speares@e...> wrote:
                                > I have been having Total AC problems for several versions
                                now...I've
                                > stopped using PCGen until it's fixed except when absolutely
                                > necessary, since I have to hand-edit the HTML to get usable
                                character
                                > sheets. (I almost went into a big fight with all the NPCs ACs being
                                1-
                                > 5 below what they should have been!)
                                >
                                > I will post a sample character shortly. Hm, seems to really be
                                broken
                                > now...flat AC is 538, total AC is 22 when it should be 21/23.
                              • Geoff
                                I just grabbed the latest .jar file and it still does not work for me. Could this be conditional to character sheet, Java version, or something? I m using
                                Message 15 of 19 , Nov 4, 2002
                                  I just grabbed the latest .jar file and it still does not work for
                                  me. Could this be conditional to character sheet, Java version, or
                                  something? I'm using csheet_ROG.htm and Java version 1.41_01 (vm
                                  version 1.41_01-b01), on Windows 2000 and Windows XP (same error on
                                  both machines).

                                  Geoff

                                  --- In pcgen@y..., "Felipe F. Diniz" <fdiniz@i...> wrote:
                                  > Geoff, i just got your character, and it displays ok here (flat=21,
                                  > touch=12, total=23). Maybe you should get the latest alpha and
                                  check
                                  > it there...
                                  >
                                  >
                                • krazhit
                                  Tried the list file zip from the plambert site? ... (flat=21,
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Nov 4, 2002
                                    Tried the list file zip from the plambert site?

                                    --- In pcgen@y..., "Geoff" <speares@e...> wrote:
                                    > I just grabbed the latest .jar file and it still does not work for
                                    > me. Could this be conditional to character sheet, Java version, or
                                    > something? I'm using csheet_ROG.htm and Java version 1.41_01 (vm
                                    > version 1.41_01-b01), on Windows 2000 and Windows XP (same error on
                                    > both machines).
                                    >
                                    > Geoff
                                    >
                                    > --- In pcgen@y..., "Felipe F. Diniz" <fdiniz@i...> wrote:
                                    > > Geoff, i just got your character, and it displays ok here
                                    (flat=21,
                                    > > touch=12, total=23). Maybe you should get the latest alpha and
                                    > check
                                    > > it there...
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                  • Geoff
                                    Just did and that seemed to fix it! Great! Geoff ... for ... or ... on
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Nov 4, 2002
                                      Just did and that seemed to fix it! Great!

                                      Geoff

                                      --- In pcgen@y..., "krazhit" <here@h...> wrote:
                                      > Tried the list file zip from the plambert site?
                                      >
                                      > --- In pcgen@y..., "Geoff" <speares@e...> wrote:
                                      > > I just grabbed the latest .jar file and it still does not work
                                      for
                                      > > me. Could this be conditional to character sheet, Java version,
                                      or
                                      > > something? I'm using csheet_ROG.htm and Java version 1.41_01 (vm
                                      > > version 1.41_01-b01), on Windows 2000 and Windows XP (same error
                                      on
                                      > > both machines).
                                      > >
                                      > > Geoff
                                      > >
                                      > > --- In pcgen@y..., "Felipe F. Diniz" <fdiniz@i...> wrote:
                                      > > > Geoff, i just got your character, and it displays ok here
                                      > (flat=21,
                                      > > > touch=12, total=23). Maybe you should get the latest alpha and
                                      > > check
                                      > > > it there...
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
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