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RE: [pcgen] Re: What if Wizards doesn't approve?

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  • Stuart Updegrave
    ... You misunderstood me. My intention was that we should not be planning now what to do if WotC decides not to allow non-SRD content. If I worked for WotC, I
    Message 1 of 11 , Sep 30, 2002
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      > From: Bolie [mailto:bolie@...]
      > [snip]
      > I certainly hope that WotC is negotiating in good faith and I also
      > hope that they do read these boards and they do see that customers
      > want non-SRD data in PCGen. They need to know how their customers
      > feel. Again, I can only hope that customer feedback doesn't cause
      > them to react childishly and emotionally.
      >
      > (I really don't think it would, but that's the implication of this
      > response.)

      You misunderstood me. My intention was that we should not be planning
      now what to do if WotC decides not to allow non-SRD content.

      If I worked for WotC, I would see a substantive difference between
      "see[ing]that customers want non-SRD data in PCGen" and seeing
      discussion of contingency. The latter could lead me to believe that my
      efforts were unwarranted and unappreciated.
    • Martijn Verburg (DSLWN)
      Hi, I ll reply on behalf of the masters ... This is correct. We ve all been asked by Bryan to send nice thank you letters to Anthony V @ WoTC for helping us
      Message 2 of 11 , Sep 30, 2002
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        Hi, I'll reply on behalf of the masters



        >>You misunderstood me. My intention was that we should not be planning
        >>now what to do if WotC decides not to allow non-SRD content.

        >>If I worked for WotC, I would see a substantive difference between
        >>"see[ing]that customers want non-SRD data in PCGen" and seeing
        >>discussion of contingency. The latter could lead me to believe that my
        >>efforts were unwarranted and unappreciated.



        This is correct. We've all been asked by Bryan to send nice
        thank you letters to Anthony V @ WoTC for helping us become compliant.

        Any mention of you having bought WoTC books because of PCGEN
        wouldn't go astray either.



        We're not going to have a contingency plan. We will continue to
        support D20 and OGL and the multitude of other publishers. Don't

        Get me wrong we'd love to work with WoTC on this one and have
        their work represented in PCGEN. But there are also many other

        Popular publishers that PCGEN will continue to support.



        Karianna

        PCGEN Mod





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • aeontrin
        I typically use PCGen for generating characters for the various RPGA Living campaigns, specifically Living Greyhawk, Living Force, Living Arcanis, and Living
        Message 3 of 11 , Oct 2, 2002
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          I typically use PCGen for generating characters for the various RPGA
          Living campaigns, specifically Living Greyhawk, Living Force, Living
          Arcanis, and Living Dragonstar. I not only generate my own
          characters, but also NPCs for various module submissions. As
          the "plenty of other books" are not canon for those campaigns (well,
          Arcanis and Dragonstar have their 3rd-party supplements that are) and
          the Builder Books are, you can see where this is very inconvenient
          for me both as a player and as a writer.

          From your post, I sense an attitude of "oh, well, WotC does not
          really want us putting these in here so we are not really going to
          push that hard for doing it." Please resist that attitude and get as
          much as you can from WotC. I realize that they are not going to give
          you everything and that's fine. Worse comes to worse, a user can
          customize the LST files as necessary. I just want you folks to
          understand that this issue is more important than your response
          implies.

          Will Dover

          --- In pcgen@y..., "bd_92" <bd_92@y...> wrote:
          > if they don't then the old saying goes: shit happens, cope. The
          > world will not come to an end just because you can't build your
          > fighter from Sword and Fist or your caster from Tome and Blood.
          >
          > there are plenty of other books out there that can more than make
          up
          > for the loss in the splat books 10 fold...
          >
          > if it happens it happens. if it doesn't it doesn't. Don't worry
          > about it till something happens...
          >
          >
          > --- In pcgen@y..., "Stuart Updegrave" <stuart@m...> wrote:
          > >
          > > Speculation and second-guessing will serve us no good at this
          > stage of
          > > the game. WotC has previously stated that they would negotiate
          with
          > > the PCGen team for re-inclusion of non-SRD WotC material once
          PCGen
          > > achieved OGL/d20 compliance. Now that this has occurred, these
          > > negotiations are proceeding, as Merton et. al. have repeatedly
          > stated.
          > > It behooves us at present time to assume that WotC is negotiating
          > in
          > > good faith.
          > >
          > > Please halt such unwarranted and unproductive speculation. It has
          > the
          > > potential to alienate WotC and cause them to take exactly the
          > action
          > > we're all hoping they avoid.
          > >
          > > cheers,
          > > ~stuart
          > >
          > > * PCGen Resident Curmudgeon
          > >
          > >
          > > > From: Avi [mailto:alazar_076@y...]
          > > >
          > > > Hey,
          > > > I know Wizards is a company that is interested in their profits
          > > > (which is fine). But what if they don't plan on ever approving
          > the
          > > > expansions, etc? My friend bought e-tools said he didnt like
          > it, i
          > >
          > > > recently introduced him to pcgen and he loves it. Wizards
          > obviously
          > >
          > > > knows this - and honestly its all their fault for making the
          > program
          > >
          > > > so restrictive and limited.
          > > > So what is the plan for PCGEN if wizards decides to sit on the
          > hind
          > > > legs or just flat out not approve any of the expansion
          > material.
          > > > Obviously by doing this they in effect make their product come
          > out
          > > on
          > > > top and thusly shut down pcgen (no matter how much better pcgen
          > is
          > > to
          > > > e-tools, if people cant incorporate the new source material they
          > > will
          > > > not use it)
          > > > -Avi
        • Thatcher
          ... RPGA ... Living ... (well, ... and ... as ... give ... While I agree with you about what the loss of all of non-SRD WotC sources would mean to PCGen. I
          Message 4 of 11 , Oct 2, 2002
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            --- In pcgen@y..., "aeontrin" <wdover@a...> wrote:
            > I typically use PCGen for generating characters for the various
            RPGA
            > Living campaigns, specifically Living Greyhawk, Living Force,
            Living
            > Arcanis, and Living Dragonstar. I not only generate my own
            > characters, but also NPCs for various module submissions. As
            > the "plenty of other books" are not canon for those campaigns
            (well,
            > Arcanis and Dragonstar have their 3rd-party supplements that are)
            and
            > the Builder Books are, you can see where this is very inconvenient
            > for me both as a player and as a writer.
            >
            > From your post, I sense an attitude of "oh, well, WotC does not
            > really want us putting these in here so we are not really going to
            > push that hard for doing it." Please resist that attitude and get
            as
            > much as you can from WotC. I realize that they are not going to
            give
            > you everything and that's fine. Worse comes to worse, a user can
            > customize the LST files as necessary. I just want you folks to
            > understand that this issue is more important than your response
            > implies.
            >
            > Will Dover

            While I agree with you about what the loss of all of non-SRD WotC
            sources would mean to PCGen. I have to defend some of the others. I
            think your taking what they said a bit wrong. It boils down to the
            fact that only those that are in the negotiations with WotC can
            really say what is going on. And only they can have a direct effect
            on the talks.

            For us we need to be patient and wait. They are not doing this half
            assed. Their working hard. Pushing for the best results for PCGen.
            All we can do is send thank you e-mails to Anthony V and various
            other sundry WotC managers thanking them for the help they have given
            us up to this point. You do realize that they didn't have to do any
            of this. They could of sicked their lawyers on us and that would
            have been the end of PCGen.

            Going on and on about what ifs is not going to change anything. All
            it will do is inflame people. So just sit back and chill until we
            get the final answer from WotC.

            Knightcrawler
            LST Howler Monkey
          • Martijn Verburg (DSLWN)
            From Karianna (In Moderator Hat) OK, this kind of debate (from both detractors and people who are advocating calm, it s just going to encourage further flame
            Message 5 of 11 , Oct 2, 2002
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              From Karianna (In Moderator Hat)



              "OK, this kind of debate (from both detractors and people who are advocating
              calm, it's just going to encourage further flame wars ;p) is pointless until
              we get the word from Bryan and Mynex, like I've said before the official
              stance is that all we are planning for is getting those files back, that's
              _it_"



              Please consider this thread closed people 8-)



              Any Q's please contact me off boards



              Karianna

              PCGEN Mod



              -----Original Message-----
              From: Thatcher [mailto:magus_knightcrawler@...]
              Sent: Thursday, 3 October 2002 03:06
              To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [pcgen] Re: What if Wizards doesn't approve?



              --- In pcgen@y..., "aeontrin" <wdover@a...> wrote:
              > I typically use PCGen for generating characters for the various
              RPGA
              > Living campaigns, specifically Living Greyhawk, Living Force,
              Living
              > Arcanis, and Living Dragonstar. I not only generate my own
              > characters, but also NPCs for various module submissions. As
              > the "plenty of other books" are not canon for those campaigns
              (well,
              > Arcanis and Dragonstar have their 3rd-party supplements that are)
              and
              > the Builder Books are, you can see where this is very inconvenient
              > for me both as a player and as a writer.
              >
              > From your post, I sense an attitude of "oh, well, WotC does not
              > really want us putting these in here so we are not really going to
              > push that hard for doing it." Please resist that attitude and get
              as
              > much as you can from WotC. I realize that they are not going to
              give
              > you everything and that's fine. Worse comes to worse, a user can
              > customize the LST files as necessary. I just want you folks to
              > understand that this issue is more important than your response
              > implies.
              >
              > Will Dover

              While I agree with you about what the loss of all of non-SRD WotC
              sources would mean to PCGen. I have to defend some of the others. I
              think your taking what they said a bit wrong. It boils down to the
              fact that only those that are in the negotiations with WotC can
              really say what is going on. And only they can have a direct effect
              on the talks.

              For us we need to be patient and wait. They are not doing this half
              assed. Their working hard. Pushing for the best results for PCGen.
              All we can do is send thank you e-mails to Anthony V and various
              other sundry WotC managers thanking them for the help they have given
              us up to this point. You do realize that they didn't have to do any
              of this. They could of sicked their lawyers on us and that would
              have been the end of PCGen.

              Going on and on about what ifs is not going to change anything. All
              it will do is inflame people. So just sit back and chill until we
              get the final answer from WotC.

              Knightcrawler
              LST Howler Monkey




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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