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Re: [pcgen] Re: vest of escape - +4 Open Lock

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  • Don Mac Phee
    I ve got a small wrench set that I cart around in my Jeep (came for free with a camera), and contains the barest of essentials. Because there have been times
    Message 1 of 18 , Jul 1, 2002
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      I've got a small wrench set that I cart around in my Jeep (came for free
      with a camera), and contains the barest of essentials.

      Because there have been times where THAT set hasn't been wholly sufficient,
      I carry a spare lock box full of odds and ends tools (Vise Grips, Air
      inflator, bleed kit, etc.)

      Neither set will cover all jobs, but there have been times that I've pulled
      tools from one, the other or both to get the job done.

      I would consider this example to parallel very well with lockpicks. In the
      reading that I've done on the subject, for common locks, one could get by
      with a half a dozen picks and a couple of pries, but that wouldn't cover
      EVERYTHING, and you would possibly need an "expansion set" to cover some of
      the newer locks, or traps.

      It's your world, but I think your mistaken.

      -Don

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "kserrano76" <kernel_k@...>
      To: <pcgen@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 2:24 PM
      Subject: [pcgen] Re: vest of escape - +4 Open Lock


      > The way I see it, you can't use two different lockpicks at the same
      > time. It's like trying to hammer a nail with two different hammers at
      > the same time. This is why I think they don't stack.
      >
      > Back to the original question, what would I type to set the
      > properties of the Vest of Escape to give a +4 to open lock and not
      > stack with MW tools?
      >
      > Kristian
      >
      > --- In pcgen@y..., "micheledn94" <micheledn@a...> wrote:
      > >
      > > Excuse me...but why wouldn't you want these to stack? If I
      > remember
      > > correctly, one gives a comepetence bonus and one gives a
      > circumstance
      > > bonus, thereby making them stackable.
      > >
      > > Wish I knew how to program...my thief is still waiting for her
      > > character sheets to get this right. Poor Di'Ora...::sigh::
      > >
      > > ::wink, wink:: How are ya, Brian?
      >
      >
      > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
      > PCGen's FAQ: http://pedertest.officeline.no/PCGen
      > PCGen's alpha build: http://rpg.plambert.net/pcgen
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      > pcgen-unsubscribe@egroups.com
      >
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      >
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    • Don Mac Phee
      Oh... and my favorite line of all time. It s a resolution system, not a simulation. -John Vivari
      Message 2 of 18 , Jul 1, 2002
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        Oh... and my favorite line of all time.

        "It's a resolution system, not a simulation." -John Vivari
      • StromMcLeod
        ... but, using your tool analogy: the vest comes with: a really really cool alan wrench the masterwork thieves toolkit comes with: a regular alan wrench
        Message 3 of 18 , Jul 1, 2002
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          --- In pcgen@y..., "kserrano76" <kernel_k@h...> wrote:
          > The way I see it, you can't use two different lockpicks at the same
          > time. It's like trying to hammer a nail with two different hammers at
          > the same time. This is why I think they don't stack.

          but, using your tool analogy:
          the vest comes with:
          a really really cool alan wrench

          the masterwork thieves toolkit comes with:
          a regular alan wrench
          adamantine hammer
          mithral chisel
          power drill with set of 12 drill bits of different sizes
          etc.

          So, the two stack... maybe.
        • cyberfunkr
          Just for reference: http://www.howstuffworks.com/lock-picking.htm Fueling the fire /Cyberfunkr ... free ... sufficient, ... Air ... pulled ... In the ... get
          Message 4 of 18 , Jul 1, 2002
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            Just for reference:

            http://www.howstuffworks.com/lock-picking.htm

            Fueling the fire
            /Cyberfunkr


            --- In pcgen@y..., "Don Mac Phee" <macphee@c...> wrote:
            > I've got a small wrench set that I cart around in my Jeep (came for
            free
            > with a camera), and contains the barest of essentials.
            >
            > Because there have been times where THAT set hasn't been wholly
            sufficient,
            > I carry a spare lock box full of odds and ends tools (Vise Grips,
            Air
            > inflator, bleed kit, etc.)
            >
            > Neither set will cover all jobs, but there have been times that I've
            pulled
            > tools from one, the other or both to get the job done.
            >
            > I would consider this example to parallel very well with lockpicks.
            In the
            > reading that I've done on the subject, for common locks, one could
            get by
            > with a half a dozen picks and a couple of pries, but that wouldn't
            cover
            > EVERYTHING, and you would possibly need an "expansion set" to cover
            some of
            > the newer locks, or traps.
            >
            > It's your world, but I think your mistaken.
            >
            > -Don
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: "kserrano76" <kernel_k@h...>
            > To: <pcgen@y...>
            > Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 2:24 PM
            > Subject: [pcgen] Re: vest of escape - +4 Open Lock
            >
            >
            > > The way I see it, you can't use two different lockpicks at the
            same
            > > time. It's like trying to hammer a nail with two different hammers
            at
            > > the same time. This is why I think they don't stack.
            > >
            > > Back to the original question, what would I type to set the
            > > properties of the Vest of Escape to give a +4 to open lock and not
            > > stack with MW tools?
            > >
            > > Kristian
            > >
            > > --- In pcgen@y..., "micheledn94" <micheledn@a...> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Excuse me...but why wouldn't you want these to stack? If I
            > > remember
            > > > correctly, one gives a comepetence bonus and one gives a
            > > circumstance
            > > > bonus, thereby making them stackable.
            > > >
            > > > Wish I knew how to program...my thief is still waiting for her
            > > > character sheets to get this right. Poor Di'Ora...::sigh::
            > > >
            > > > ::wink, wink:: How are ya, Brian?
            > >
            > >
            > > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
            > > PCGen's FAQ: http://pedertest.officeline.no/PCGen
            > > PCGen's alpha build: http://rpg.plambert.net/pcgen
            > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > > pcgen-unsubscribe@e...
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
            http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            > >
            > >
            > >
          • kserrano76
            Beleive me if i can allow these tools to stack, I d be even happier. I ve spoken to the DM and he doesn t think they should. I understand tha analaogy of using
            Message 5 of 18 , Jul 3, 2002
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              Beleive me if i can allow these tools to stack, I'd be even happier.
              I've spoken to the DM and he doesn't think they should.

              I understand tha analaogy of using different tools from different
              kits. However, looking at it from the persepctive of bonuses, I
              think that it would be hard to allow bonuses to stack if I'm using
              parts of one kit and parts of another. The argument against stacking
              is that the bonus comes from using the whole set, not peices from
              the set.

              Anyway, my reason for posting this is not to debate whether they
              should stack but to find out how to customize the lst file so that
              they do not stack. However I still need the +2 from the MW tools for
              disable device as the vest of escape only applies to open lock.

              Kristian

              --- In pcgen@y..., "Don Mac Phee" <macphee@c...> wrote:
              > I've got a small wrench set that I cart around in my Jeep (came
              for free
              > with a camera), and contains the barest of essentials.
              >
              > Because there have been times where THAT set hasn't been wholly
              sufficient,
              > I carry a spare lock box full of odds and ends tools (Vise Grips,
              Air
              > inflator, bleed kit, etc.)
              >
              > Neither set will cover all jobs, but there have been times that
              I've pulled
              > tools from one, the other or both to get the job done.
              >
              > I would consider this example to parallel very well with
              lockpicks. In the
              > reading that I've done on the subject, for common locks, one could
              get by
              > with a half a dozen picks and a couple of pries, but that wouldn't
              cover
              > EVERYTHING, and you would possibly need an "expansion set" to
              cover some of
              > the newer locks, or traps.
              >
              > It's your world, but I think your mistaken.
              >
              > -Don
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: "kserrano76" <kernel_k@h...>
              > To: <pcgen@y...>
              > Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 2:24 PM
              > Subject: [pcgen] Re: vest of escape - +4 Open Lock
              >
              >
              > > The way I see it, you can't use two different lockpicks at the
              same
              > > time. It's like trying to hammer a nail with two different
              hammers at
              > > the same time. This is why I think they don't stack.
              > >
              > > Back to the original question, what would I type to set the
              > > properties of the Vest of Escape to give a +4 to open lock and
              not
              > > stack with MW tools?
              > >
              > > Kristian
              > >
              > > --- In pcgen@y..., "micheledn94" <micheledn@a...> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Excuse me...but why wouldn't you want these to stack? If I
              > > remember
              > > > correctly, one gives a comepetence bonus and one gives a
              > > circumstance
              > > > bonus, thereby making them stackable.
              > > >
              > > > Wish I knew how to program...my thief is still waiting for her
              > > > character sheets to get this right. Poor Di'Ora...::sigh::
              > > >
              > > > ::wink, wink:: How are ya, Brian?
              > >
              > >
              > > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
              > > PCGen's FAQ: http://pedertest.officeline.no/PCGen
              > > PCGen's alpha build: http://rpg.plambert.net/pcgen
              > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > > pcgen-unsubscribe@e...
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
              http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              > >
              > >
              > >
            • Emily Smirle
              ... Quick answer, change the type of the two sets of boni to be the same (ie Circumstance, or whatever). -- Beer is the mind-killer. Beer is the little death
              Message 6 of 18 , Jul 4, 2002
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                kserrano76 wrote:

                > Anyway, my reason for posting this is not to debate whether they
                > should stack but to find out how to customize the lst file so that
                > they do not stack. However I still need the +2 from the MW tools for
                > disable device as the vest of escape only applies to open lock.
                >


                Quick answer, change the type of the two sets of boni to be the same (ie
                Circumstance, or whatever).
                --
                "Beer is the mind-killer. Beer is the little death that brings total
                oblivion. I will face my beer. I will permit it to pass over me and
                through me. And when it has gone past I will turn my inner eye to
                see it's path. When the beer has gone there will be nothing.
                Only I will remain." - www.goats.com
              • Tir Gwaith
                Um.. but NOT Circumstance... that stacks (is in the stacks.lst or whatever the name of it is in /system) Tir Gwaith LST Chimp Strange Monkey MM Race Dragon ...
                Message 7 of 18 , Jul 4, 2002
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                  Um.. but NOT Circumstance... that stacks (is in the stacks.lst or whatever
                  the name of it is in /system)

                  Tir Gwaith
                  LST Chimp
                  Strange Monkey
                  MM Race Dragon
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Emily Smirle" <smirle4498@...>
                  To: <pcgen@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2002 9:43 AM
                  Subject: Re: [pcgen] Re: vest of escape - +4 Open Lock


                  > kserrano76 wrote:
                  >
                  > > Anyway, my reason for posting this is not to debate whether they
                  > > should stack but to find out how to customize the lst file so that
                  > > they do not stack. However I still need the +2 from the MW tools for
                  > > disable device as the vest of escape only applies to open lock.
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  > Quick answer, change the type of the two sets of boni to be the same (ie
                  > Circumstance, or whatever).
                  > --
                  > "Beer is the mind-killer. Beer is the little death that brings total
                  > oblivion. I will face my beer. I will permit it to pass over me and
                  > through me. And when it has gone past I will turn my inner eye to
                  > see it's path. When the beer has gone there will be nothing.
                  > Only I will remain." - www.goats.com
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                  > PCGen's FAQ: http://pedertest.officeline.no/PCGen
                  > PCGen's alpha build: http://rpg.plambert.net/pcgen
                  > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > pcgen-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • gsbingl
                  Something other than Circumstance as it is in bonusstacks.lst Byngl ... that ... for ... same (ie ... and
                  Message 8 of 18 , Jul 4, 2002
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                    Something other than Circumstance as it is in bonusstacks.lst

                    Byngl

                    --- In pcgen@y..., Emily Smirle <smirle4498@r...> wrote:
                    > kserrano76 wrote:
                    >
                    > > Anyway, my reason for posting this is not to debate whether they
                    > > should stack but to find out how to customize the lst file so
                    that
                    > > they do not stack. However I still need the +2 from the MW tools
                    for
                    > > disable device as the vest of escape only applies to open lock.
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    > Quick answer, change the type of the two sets of boni to be the
                    same (ie
                    > Circumstance, or whatever).
                    > --
                    > "Beer is the mind-killer. Beer is the little death that brings total
                    > oblivion. I will face my beer. I will permit it to pass over me
                    and
                    > through me. And when it has gone past I will turn my inner eye to
                    > see it's path. When the beer has gone there will be nothing.
                    > Only I will remain." - www.goats.com
                  • kserrano76
                    Thank you all for your help. I will try this tomorrow before my game and let you know how it works. Kristian PS - This was a rather interesting discussion on
                    Message 9 of 18 , Jul 4, 2002
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                      Thank you all for your help. I will try this tomorrow before my game
                      and let you know how it works.

                      Kristian

                      PS - This was a rather interesting discussion on whether the two
                      should stack or not. I think I will post this on the boards at
                      wizards to see what they have to say.


                      --- In pcgen@y..., "gsbingl" <byngl@h...> wrote:
                      > Something other than Circumstance as it is in bonusstacks.lst
                      >
                      > Byngl
                      >
                      > --- In pcgen@y..., Emily Smirle <smirle4498@r...> wrote:
                      > > kserrano76 wrote:
                      > >
                      > > > Anyway, my reason for posting this is not to debate whether
                      they
                      > > > should stack but to find out how to customize the lst file so
                      > that
                      > > > they do not stack. However I still need the +2 from the MW
                      tools
                      > for
                      > > > disable device as the vest of escape only applies to open lock.
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Quick answer, change the type of the two sets of boni to be the
                      > same (ie
                      > > Circumstance, or whatever).
                      > > --
                    • kserrano76
                      For reference, on P. 114 of the PHB under Tools, Masterwork, it states that Bonuses provided by multiple masterwork items used toward the same skill do not
                      Message 10 of 18 , Jul 6, 2002
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                        For reference, on P. 114 of the PHB under Tools, Masterwork, it
                        states that Bonuses provided by multiple masterwork items used
                        toward the same skill do not stack. All magic items are considered
                        MW.

                        I'm still working on modifying the vest of escape so the bonuses
                        don't stack with MW tools. I was able to apply the circumstance
                        adjustment to Vest of Escape to remove the -2 penalty for not using
                        tools. Also, I think the MW Tools are somehow overriding the Vest of
                        Escape in the Open Lock skill Bonus.

                        --- In pcgen@y..., "kserrano76" <kernel_k@h...> wrote:
                        > Thank you all for your help. I will try this tomorrow before my
                        game
                        > and let you know how it works.
                        >
                        > Kristian
                        >
                        > PS - This was a rather interesting discussion on whether the two
                        > should stack or not. I think I will post this on the boards at
                        > wizards to see what they have to say.
                        >
                        >
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