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Re: [pcgen] Re: vest of escape - +4 Open Lock

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  • Timothy J. Lanza
    ... The vest includes just lock picks. The tool kit includes a number of other implements. While you can open a lock with just picks, there are a variety of
    Message 1 of 18 , Jul 1 11:22 AM
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      At 02:18 PM 7/1/2002, you wrote:
      >The way I see it, you can't use two different lockpicks at the same
      >time. It's like trying to hammer a nail with two different hammers at
      >the same time. This is why I think they don't stack.

      The vest includes just lock picks. The tool kit includes a number of other implements. While you can open a lock with just picks, there are a variety of other tools that can help. The bonuses stack because of the other tools, not the actual picks.

      --
      Timothy J. Lanza
      "When we can't dream any longer, we die." - Emma Goldman
    • kserrano76
      The way I see it, you can t use two different lockpicks at the same time. It s like trying to hammer a nail with two different hammers at the same time. This
      Message 2 of 18 , Jul 1 11:24 AM
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        The way I see it, you can't use two different lockpicks at the same
        time. It's like trying to hammer a nail with two different hammers at
        the same time. This is why I think they don't stack.

        Back to the original question, what would I type to set the
        properties of the Vest of Escape to give a +4 to open lock and not
        stack with MW tools?

        Kristian

        --- In pcgen@y..., "micheledn94" <micheledn@a...> wrote:
        >
        > Excuse me...but why wouldn't you want these to stack? If I
        remember
        > correctly, one gives a comepetence bonus and one gives a
        circumstance
        > bonus, thereby making them stackable.
        >
        > Wish I knew how to program...my thief is still waiting for her
        > character sheets to get this right. Poor Di'Ora...::sigh::
        >
        > ::wink, wink:: How are ya, Brian?
      • Don Mac Phee
        I ve got a small wrench set that I cart around in my Jeep (came for free with a camera), and contains the barest of essentials. Because there have been times
        Message 3 of 18 , Jul 1 12:57 PM
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          I've got a small wrench set that I cart around in my Jeep (came for free
          with a camera), and contains the barest of essentials.

          Because there have been times where THAT set hasn't been wholly sufficient,
          I carry a spare lock box full of odds and ends tools (Vise Grips, Air
          inflator, bleed kit, etc.)

          Neither set will cover all jobs, but there have been times that I've pulled
          tools from one, the other or both to get the job done.

          I would consider this example to parallel very well with lockpicks. In the
          reading that I've done on the subject, for common locks, one could get by
          with a half a dozen picks and a couple of pries, but that wouldn't cover
          EVERYTHING, and you would possibly need an "expansion set" to cover some of
          the newer locks, or traps.

          It's your world, but I think your mistaken.

          -Don

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "kserrano76" <kernel_k@...>
          To: <pcgen@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 2:24 PM
          Subject: [pcgen] Re: vest of escape - +4 Open Lock


          > The way I see it, you can't use two different lockpicks at the same
          > time. It's like trying to hammer a nail with two different hammers at
          > the same time. This is why I think they don't stack.
          >
          > Back to the original question, what would I type to set the
          > properties of the Vest of Escape to give a +4 to open lock and not
          > stack with MW tools?
          >
          > Kristian
          >
          > --- In pcgen@y..., "micheledn94" <micheledn@a...> wrote:
          > >
          > > Excuse me...but why wouldn't you want these to stack? If I
          > remember
          > > correctly, one gives a comepetence bonus and one gives a
          > circumstance
          > > bonus, thereby making them stackable.
          > >
          > > Wish I knew how to program...my thief is still waiting for her
          > > character sheets to get this right. Poor Di'Ora...::sigh::
          > >
          > > ::wink, wink:: How are ya, Brian?
          >
          >
          > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
          > PCGen's FAQ: http://pedertest.officeline.no/PCGen
          > PCGen's alpha build: http://rpg.plambert.net/pcgen
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > pcgen-unsubscribe@egroups.com
          >
          >
          >
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          >
          >
          >
        • Don Mac Phee
          Oh... and my favorite line of all time. It s a resolution system, not a simulation. -John Vivari
          Message 4 of 18 , Jul 1 12:58 PM
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            Oh... and my favorite line of all time.

            "It's a resolution system, not a simulation." -John Vivari
          • StromMcLeod
            ... but, using your tool analogy: the vest comes with: a really really cool alan wrench the masterwork thieves toolkit comes with: a regular alan wrench
            Message 5 of 18 , Jul 1 1:44 PM
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              --- In pcgen@y..., "kserrano76" <kernel_k@h...> wrote:
              > The way I see it, you can't use two different lockpicks at the same
              > time. It's like trying to hammer a nail with two different hammers at
              > the same time. This is why I think they don't stack.

              but, using your tool analogy:
              the vest comes with:
              a really really cool alan wrench

              the masterwork thieves toolkit comes with:
              a regular alan wrench
              adamantine hammer
              mithral chisel
              power drill with set of 12 drill bits of different sizes
              etc.

              So, the two stack... maybe.
            • cyberfunkr
              Just for reference: http://www.howstuffworks.com/lock-picking.htm Fueling the fire /Cyberfunkr ... free ... sufficient, ... Air ... pulled ... In the ... get
              Message 6 of 18 , Jul 1 2:53 PM
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                Just for reference:

                http://www.howstuffworks.com/lock-picking.htm

                Fueling the fire
                /Cyberfunkr


                --- In pcgen@y..., "Don Mac Phee" <macphee@c...> wrote:
                > I've got a small wrench set that I cart around in my Jeep (came for
                free
                > with a camera), and contains the barest of essentials.
                >
                > Because there have been times where THAT set hasn't been wholly
                sufficient,
                > I carry a spare lock box full of odds and ends tools (Vise Grips,
                Air
                > inflator, bleed kit, etc.)
                >
                > Neither set will cover all jobs, but there have been times that I've
                pulled
                > tools from one, the other or both to get the job done.
                >
                > I would consider this example to parallel very well with lockpicks.
                In the
                > reading that I've done on the subject, for common locks, one could
                get by
                > with a half a dozen picks and a couple of pries, but that wouldn't
                cover
                > EVERYTHING, and you would possibly need an "expansion set" to cover
                some of
                > the newer locks, or traps.
                >
                > It's your world, but I think your mistaken.
                >
                > -Don
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: "kserrano76" <kernel_k@h...>
                > To: <pcgen@y...>
                > Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 2:24 PM
                > Subject: [pcgen] Re: vest of escape - +4 Open Lock
                >
                >
                > > The way I see it, you can't use two different lockpicks at the
                same
                > > time. It's like trying to hammer a nail with two different hammers
                at
                > > the same time. This is why I think they don't stack.
                > >
                > > Back to the original question, what would I type to set the
                > > properties of the Vest of Escape to give a +4 to open lock and not
                > > stack with MW tools?
                > >
                > > Kristian
                > >
                > > --- In pcgen@y..., "micheledn94" <micheledn@a...> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Excuse me...but why wouldn't you want these to stack? If I
                > > remember
                > > > correctly, one gives a comepetence bonus and one gives a
                > > circumstance
                > > > bonus, thereby making them stackable.
                > > >
                > > > Wish I knew how to program...my thief is still waiting for her
                > > > character sheets to get this right. Poor Di'Ora...::sigh::
                > > >
                > > > ::wink, wink:: How are ya, Brian?
                > >
                > >
                > > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                > > PCGen's FAQ: http://pedertest.officeline.no/PCGen
                > > PCGen's alpha build: http://rpg.plambert.net/pcgen
                > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > > pcgen-unsubscribe@e...
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                > >
                > >
                > >
              • kserrano76
                Beleive me if i can allow these tools to stack, I d be even happier. I ve spoken to the DM and he doesn t think they should. I understand tha analaogy of using
                Message 7 of 18 , Jul 3 10:14 PM
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                  Beleive me if i can allow these tools to stack, I'd be even happier.
                  I've spoken to the DM and he doesn't think they should.

                  I understand tha analaogy of using different tools from different
                  kits. However, looking at it from the persepctive of bonuses, I
                  think that it would be hard to allow bonuses to stack if I'm using
                  parts of one kit and parts of another. The argument against stacking
                  is that the bonus comes from using the whole set, not peices from
                  the set.

                  Anyway, my reason for posting this is not to debate whether they
                  should stack but to find out how to customize the lst file so that
                  they do not stack. However I still need the +2 from the MW tools for
                  disable device as the vest of escape only applies to open lock.

                  Kristian

                  --- In pcgen@y..., "Don Mac Phee" <macphee@c...> wrote:
                  > I've got a small wrench set that I cart around in my Jeep (came
                  for free
                  > with a camera), and contains the barest of essentials.
                  >
                  > Because there have been times where THAT set hasn't been wholly
                  sufficient,
                  > I carry a spare lock box full of odds and ends tools (Vise Grips,
                  Air
                  > inflator, bleed kit, etc.)
                  >
                  > Neither set will cover all jobs, but there have been times that
                  I've pulled
                  > tools from one, the other or both to get the job done.
                  >
                  > I would consider this example to parallel very well with
                  lockpicks. In the
                  > reading that I've done on the subject, for common locks, one could
                  get by
                  > with a half a dozen picks and a couple of pries, but that wouldn't
                  cover
                  > EVERYTHING, and you would possibly need an "expansion set" to
                  cover some of
                  > the newer locks, or traps.
                  >
                  > It's your world, but I think your mistaken.
                  >
                  > -Don
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: "kserrano76" <kernel_k@h...>
                  > To: <pcgen@y...>
                  > Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 2:24 PM
                  > Subject: [pcgen] Re: vest of escape - +4 Open Lock
                  >
                  >
                  > > The way I see it, you can't use two different lockpicks at the
                  same
                  > > time. It's like trying to hammer a nail with two different
                  hammers at
                  > > the same time. This is why I think they don't stack.
                  > >
                  > > Back to the original question, what would I type to set the
                  > > properties of the Vest of Escape to give a +4 to open lock and
                  not
                  > > stack with MW tools?
                  > >
                  > > Kristian
                  > >
                  > > --- In pcgen@y..., "micheledn94" <micheledn@a...> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Excuse me...but why wouldn't you want these to stack? If I
                  > > remember
                  > > > correctly, one gives a comepetence bonus and one gives a
                  > > circumstance
                  > > > bonus, thereby making them stackable.
                  > > >
                  > > > Wish I knew how to program...my thief is still waiting for her
                  > > > character sheets to get this right. Poor Di'Ora...::sigh::
                  > > >
                  > > > ::wink, wink:: How are ya, Brian?
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                  > > PCGen's FAQ: http://pedertest.officeline.no/PCGen
                  > > PCGen's alpha build: http://rpg.plambert.net/pcgen
                  > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > > pcgen-unsubscribe@e...
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                  http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                • Emily Smirle
                  ... Quick answer, change the type of the two sets of boni to be the same (ie Circumstance, or whatever). -- Beer is the mind-killer. Beer is the little death
                  Message 8 of 18 , Jul 4 7:43 AM
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                    kserrano76 wrote:

                    > Anyway, my reason for posting this is not to debate whether they
                    > should stack but to find out how to customize the lst file so that
                    > they do not stack. However I still need the +2 from the MW tools for
                    > disable device as the vest of escape only applies to open lock.
                    >


                    Quick answer, change the type of the two sets of boni to be the same (ie
                    Circumstance, or whatever).
                    --
                    "Beer is the mind-killer. Beer is the little death that brings total
                    oblivion. I will face my beer. I will permit it to pass over me and
                    through me. And when it has gone past I will turn my inner eye to
                    see it's path. When the beer has gone there will be nothing.
                    Only I will remain." - www.goats.com
                  • Tir Gwaith
                    Um.. but NOT Circumstance... that stacks (is in the stacks.lst or whatever the name of it is in /system) Tir Gwaith LST Chimp Strange Monkey MM Race Dragon ...
                    Message 9 of 18 , Jul 4 8:03 AM
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                      Um.. but NOT Circumstance... that stacks (is in the stacks.lst or whatever
                      the name of it is in /system)

                      Tir Gwaith
                      LST Chimp
                      Strange Monkey
                      MM Race Dragon
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Emily Smirle" <smirle4498@...>
                      To: <pcgen@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2002 9:43 AM
                      Subject: Re: [pcgen] Re: vest of escape - +4 Open Lock


                      > kserrano76 wrote:
                      >
                      > > Anyway, my reason for posting this is not to debate whether they
                      > > should stack but to find out how to customize the lst file so that
                      > > they do not stack. However I still need the +2 from the MW tools for
                      > > disable device as the vest of escape only applies to open lock.
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      > Quick answer, change the type of the two sets of boni to be the same (ie
                      > Circumstance, or whatever).
                      > --
                      > "Beer is the mind-killer. Beer is the little death that brings total
                      > oblivion. I will face my beer. I will permit it to pass over me and
                      > through me. And when it has gone past I will turn my inner eye to
                      > see it's path. When the beer has gone there will be nothing.
                      > Only I will remain." - www.goats.com
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                      > PCGen's FAQ: http://pedertest.officeline.no/PCGen
                      > PCGen's alpha build: http://rpg.plambert.net/pcgen
                      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      > pcgen-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • gsbingl
                      Something other than Circumstance as it is in bonusstacks.lst Byngl ... that ... for ... same (ie ... and
                      Message 10 of 18 , Jul 4 11:32 AM
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                        Something other than Circumstance as it is in bonusstacks.lst

                        Byngl

                        --- In pcgen@y..., Emily Smirle <smirle4498@r...> wrote:
                        > kserrano76 wrote:
                        >
                        > > Anyway, my reason for posting this is not to debate whether they
                        > > should stack but to find out how to customize the lst file so
                        that
                        > > they do not stack. However I still need the +2 from the MW tools
                        for
                        > > disable device as the vest of escape only applies to open lock.
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        > Quick answer, change the type of the two sets of boni to be the
                        same (ie
                        > Circumstance, or whatever).
                        > --
                        > "Beer is the mind-killer. Beer is the little death that brings total
                        > oblivion. I will face my beer. I will permit it to pass over me
                        and
                        > through me. And when it has gone past I will turn my inner eye to
                        > see it's path. When the beer has gone there will be nothing.
                        > Only I will remain." - www.goats.com
                      • kserrano76
                        Thank you all for your help. I will try this tomorrow before my game and let you know how it works. Kristian PS - This was a rather interesting discussion on
                        Message 11 of 18 , Jul 4 9:59 PM
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                          Thank you all for your help. I will try this tomorrow before my game
                          and let you know how it works.

                          Kristian

                          PS - This was a rather interesting discussion on whether the two
                          should stack or not. I think I will post this on the boards at
                          wizards to see what they have to say.


                          --- In pcgen@y..., "gsbingl" <byngl@h...> wrote:
                          > Something other than Circumstance as it is in bonusstacks.lst
                          >
                          > Byngl
                          >
                          > --- In pcgen@y..., Emily Smirle <smirle4498@r...> wrote:
                          > > kserrano76 wrote:
                          > >
                          > > > Anyway, my reason for posting this is not to debate whether
                          they
                          > > > should stack but to find out how to customize the lst file so
                          > that
                          > > > they do not stack. However I still need the +2 from the MW
                          tools
                          > for
                          > > > disable device as the vest of escape only applies to open lock.
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Quick answer, change the type of the two sets of boni to be the
                          > same (ie
                          > > Circumstance, or whatever).
                          > > --
                        • kserrano76
                          For reference, on P. 114 of the PHB under Tools, Masterwork, it states that Bonuses provided by multiple masterwork items used toward the same skill do not
                          Message 12 of 18 , Jul 6 8:38 AM
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                            For reference, on P. 114 of the PHB under Tools, Masterwork, it
                            states that Bonuses provided by multiple masterwork items used
                            toward the same skill do not stack. All magic items are considered
                            MW.

                            I'm still working on modifying the vest of escape so the bonuses
                            don't stack with MW tools. I was able to apply the circumstance
                            adjustment to Vest of Escape to remove the -2 penalty for not using
                            tools. Also, I think the MW Tools are somehow overriding the Vest of
                            Escape in the Open Lock skill Bonus.

                            --- In pcgen@y..., "kserrano76" <kernel_k@h...> wrote:
                            > Thank you all for your help. I will try this tomorrow before my
                            game
                            > and let you know how it works.
                            >
                            > Kristian
                            >
                            > PS - This was a rather interesting discussion on whether the two
                            > should stack or not. I think I will post this on the boards at
                            > wizards to see what they have to say.
                            >
                            >
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