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RE: [pcgen] Re: Bug in ADD:Spellcaster tag

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  • Shawn Chesak
    Errp, sorry for not specifying the class. I was referring to a custom prestige class for my campaign, the Wild Mage, which I just entered yesterday. But, yes,
    Message 1 of 26 , Mar 1, 2001
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      Errp, sorry for not specifying the class.  I was referring to a custom prestige class for my campaign, the Wild Mage, which I just entered yesterday.
       
      But, yes, its just like the Loremaster in that it adds to an existing spell caster level. 
       
      So, what you are saying is that the loremaster doesn't gain any spells known as it advances in levels?  Hmmm... I suppose this may be correct, but that would make the class (and others like it) quite useless for sorcerers (and bards).  After all, if they don't get more spells known, what good does it do them when they get spells castable of higher levels? They wouldn't KNOW any.
       
      This doesn't seem right, as other classes aren't penalized in this way for these Prestige classes.  A wizard can add those higher level spells to his book, a cleric would be granted higher level spells by his deity, etc.   Only a bard and a sorcerer would end up being severely restricted by the Loremaster (and other spell casting classes which increment caster level of existing classes), and I don't think that was the game designers intention.
       
      I'll hunt for erratta on it just to be sure, however, as the description in the DMG is not definitive either way. 

      ---
      Shawn A. Chesak
      Stormkeep GM -- http://www.stormkeep.net

      -----Original Message-----
      From: mocha@... [mailto:mocha@...]
      Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 6:44 AM
      To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [pcgen] Re: Bug in ADD:Spellcaster tag

      Like the Loremaster? Which Prestige Class are you referring to? I
      think it increments how many spells you can *cast*, not how many you
      *know*.

    • mocha@mcs.net
      I believe the Loremaster is intended as the ultra-geek spellcaster. Wizards are the most scholastic, which is why they re not limited in the number of spells
      Message 2 of 26 , Mar 1, 2001
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        I believe the Loremaster is intended as the 'ultra-geek' spellcaster.
        Wizards are the most scholastic, which is why they're not limited in
        the number of spells they can know. Sorcerers and Bards are more your
        talented-non-scholars. Sorcerers get little benefit from hitting the
        books and dreaming up their own spells - at least a Wizard could
        throw their creation into their book with little consequence - a
        Wizard or a Bard would have to decide if creating a new spell was
        worth having it replace a possible choice from the known spell list.
        So the Loremaster as a concept fits most snugly with Wizard - and
        with Clerics who also pattern themselves as being more scholarly and
        learned. You're right, though, there should be a way to add to the
        number of known spells. I believe that Dave's BONUS: tag additions
        that he's put in a file for me will resolve all of this, and make the
        ADD:SPELLCASTER tag obsolete. So I don't allow a class to add to the
        KNOWN tag yet - but that functionality will be added soon.

        -Bryan

        --- In pcgen@y..., "Shawn Chesak" <shawnchesak@e...> wrote:
        > Errp, sorry for not specifying the class. I was referring to a
        custom
        > prestige class for my campaign, the Wild Mage, which I just entered
        > yesterday.
        >
        > But, yes, its just like the Loremaster in that it adds to an
        existing spell
        > caster level.
        >
        > So, what you are saying is that the loremaster doesn't gain any
        spells
        > known as it advances in levels? Hmmm... I suppose this may be
        correct, but
        > that would make the class (and others like it) quite useless for
        sorcerers
        > (and bards). After all, if they don't get more spells known, what
        good
        > does it do them when they get spells castable of higher levels? They
        > wouldn't KNOW any.
        >
        > This doesn't seem right, as other classes aren't penalized in this
        way for
        > these Prestige classes. A wizard can add those higher level spells
        to his
        > book, a cleric would be granted higher level spells by his deity,
        etc.
        > Only a bard and a sorcerer would end up being severely restricted
        by the
        > Loremaster (and other spell casting classes which increment caster
        level of
        > existing classes), and I don't think that was the game designers
        intention.
        >
        > I'll hunt for erratta on it just to be sure, however, as the
        description in
        > the DMG is not definitive either way.
        > ---
        > Shawn A. Chesak
        > Stormkeep GM -- http://www.stormkeep.net
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: mocha@m... [mailto:mocha@m...]
        > Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 6:44 AM
        > To: pcgen@y...
        > Subject: [pcgen] Re: Bug in ADD:Spellcaster tag
        >
        >
        > Like the Loremaster? Which Prestige Class are you referring to? I
        > think it increments how many spells you can *cast*, not how many
        you
        > *know*.
      • Shawn Chesak
        Thanks m8. I understand your logic with loremaster. The sheer number of other prestige classes popping up which add to spellcaster level who /should/ allow
        Message 3 of 26 , Mar 1, 2001
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          Thanks m8.  I understand your logic with loremaster.
           
          The sheer number of other prestige classes popping up which add to spellcaster level who /should/ allow incrementing of sorcerers spells known, on the other hand, will make this new function a great benefit.
           

          ---
          Shawn A. Chesak
          Stormkeep GM -- http://www.stormkeep.net

        • zebuleon@peoplepc.com
          ... existing spell ... spells ... correct, but ... sorcerers ... good ... way for ... to his ... etc. ... the ... level of ... intention. ... I do believe that
          Message 4 of 26 , Mar 1, 2001
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            > But, yes, its just like the Loremaster in that it adds to an
            existing spell
            > caster level.
            >
            > So, what you are saying is that the loremaster doesn't gain any
            spells
            > known as it advances in levels? Hmmm... I suppose this may be
            correct, but
            > that would make the class (and others like it) quite useless for
            sorcerers
            > (and bards). After all, if they don't get more spells known, what
            good
            > does it do them when they get spells castable of higher levels? They
            > wouldn't KNOW any.
            >
            > This doesn't seem right, as other classes aren't penalized in this
            way for
            > these Prestige classes. A wizard can add those higher level spells
            to his
            > book, a cleric would be granted higher level spells by his deity,
            etc.
            > Only a bard and a sorcerer would end up being severely restricted by
            the
            > Loremaster (and other spell casting classes which increment caster
            level of
            > existing classes), and I don't think that was the game designers
            intention.
            >

            I do believe that the the sorcerer would gain both their known spells
            and spells per day. because the later is entirely useless without the
            known spells. They refer to 'spells per day' as an example, but you
            are adding '+1 level of existing class' which means that sorcerers and
            bards would get their next level of spells, both known and per day. I
            believe you'll find that all the other Prestige classes that 'add
            existing class' whould affect sorcerer and bards the same as cleric
            and wizards.


            Mario
          • mocha@mcs.net
            You re right - does the dmg specify for the Loremaster spells cast only in terms of what the increase in level affects? If not, then I think PCGen is in error
            Message 5 of 26 , Mar 1, 2001
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              You're right - does the dmg specify for the Loremaster spells cast
              only in terms of what the increase in level affects? If not, then I
              think PCGen is in error and should reference the increase in level
              for how many spells can be known as well. An easy code change - I
              simply don't have my book and would like it confirmed before I make
              that change.

              -Bryan

              --- In pcgen@y..., zebuleon@p... wrote:
              > > But, yes, its just like the Loremaster in that it adds to an
              > existing spell
              > > caster level.
              > >
              > > So, what you are saying is that the loremaster doesn't gain any
              > spells
              > > known as it advances in levels? Hmmm... I suppose this may be
              > correct, but
              > > that would make the class (and others like it) quite useless for
              > sorcerers
              > > (and bards). After all, if they don't get more spells known,
              what
              > good
              > > does it do them when they get spells castable of higher levels?
              They
              > > wouldn't KNOW any.
              > >
              > > This doesn't seem right, as other classes aren't penalized in
              this
              > way for
              > > these Prestige classes. A wizard can add those higher level
              spells
              > to his
              > > book, a cleric would be granted higher level spells by his deity,
              > etc.
              > > Only a bard and a sorcerer would end up being severely restricted
              by
              > the
              > > Loremaster (and other spell casting classes which increment
              caster
              > level of
              > > existing classes), and I don't think that was the game designers
              > intention.
              > >
              >
              > I do believe that the the sorcerer would gain both their known
              spells
              > and spells per day. because the later is entirely useless without
              the
              > known spells. They refer to 'spells per day' as an example, but
              you
              > are adding '+1 level of existing class' which means that sorcerers
              and
              > bards would get their next level of spells, both known and per
              day. I
              > believe you'll find that all the other Prestige classes that 'add
              > existing class' whould affect sorcerer and bards the same as cleric
              > and wizards.
              >
              >
              > Mario
            • zebuleon@peoplepc.com
              ... I m a little confused by what your asking, but I ll give an example that might answer your question. Wizard 4/Lormaster 6 would be able to cast spells as
              Message 6 of 26 , Mar 1, 2001
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                --- In pcgen@y..., mocha@m... wrote:
                > You're right - does the dmg specify for the Loremaster spells cast
                > only in terms of what the increase in level affects? If not, then I
                > think PCGen is in error and should reference the increase in level
                > for how many spells can be known as well. An easy code change - I
                > simply don't have my book and would like it confirmed before I make
                > that change.
                >
                > -Bryan
                >

                I'm a little confused by what your asking, but I'll give an example
                that might answer your question.

                Wizard 4/Lormaster 6 would be able to cast spells as if he was a
                10th level wizard. if you have another spellcaster class(wizard and
                cleric) when you advance as lormaster you need to choose which
                one(wizard or cleric) gains the level of spells.

                hope this helps

                Mario
              • john.sussenberger@libertymutual.com
                From the d20 SRD Spells per Day: A loremaster continues training in magic as well as her field of research. Thus, when a new loremaster level is gained, the
                Message 7 of 26 , Mar 1, 2001
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                  From the d20 SRD
                   

                  Spells per Day: A loremaster continues training in magic as well as her field of research. Thus, when a new loremaster level is gained, the character gains new spells per day as if she had also gained a level in a spellcasting class she belonged to before she added the prestige class. She does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained (improved chance of controlling or rebuking un­dead, metamagic or item creation feats, and so on). This essentially means that she adds the level of loremaster to the level of some other spellcasting class the character has, then determines spells per day and caster level accordingly.

                  If a character had more than one spellcasting class before she became a lore­master, she must decide to which class she adds each level of loremaster for purposes of determining spells per day when she adds the new level. 

                  So it seems that known spells is not specifically incremented, very interesting.

                   

                  -John-

                   

                   

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: mocha@... [mailto:mocha@...]
                  Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 1:23 PM
                  To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [pcgen] Re: Bug in ADD:Spellcaster tag

                  You're right - does the dmg specify for the Loremaster spells cast
                  only in terms of what the increase in level affects?  If not, then I
                  think PCGen is in error and should reference the increase in level
                  for how many spells can be known as well. An easy code change - I
                  simply don't have my book and would like it confirmed before I make
                  that change.

                  -Bryan

                  --- In pcgen@y..., zebuleon@p... wrote:
                  > > But, yes, its just like the Loremaster in that it adds to an
                  > existing spell
                  > > caster level.
                  > >
                  > > So, what you are saying is that the loremaster doesn't gain any
                  > spells
                  > > known as it advances in levels?  Hmmm... I suppose this may be
                  > correct, but
                  > > that would make the class (and others like it) quite useless for
                  > sorcerers
                  > > (and bards).  After all, if they don't get more spells known,
                  what
                  > good
                  > > does it do them when they get spells castable of higher levels?
                  They
                  > > wouldn't KNOW any.
                  > >
                  > > This doesn't seem right, as other classes aren't penalized in
                  this
                  > way for
                  > > these Prestige classes.  A wizard can add those higher level
                  spells
                  > to his
                  > > book, a cleric would be granted higher level spells by his deity,
                  > etc.
                  > > Only a bard and a sorcerer would end up being severely restricted
                  by
                  > the
                  > > Loremaster (and other spell casting classes which increment
                  caster
                  > level of
                  > > existing classes), and I don't think that was the game designers
                  > intention.
                  > >
                  >
                  > I do believe that the the sorcerer would gain both their known
                  spells
                  > and spells per day.  because the later is entirely useless without
                  the
                  > known spells.  They refer to 'spells per day' as an example, but
                  you
                  > are adding '+1 level of existing class' which means that sorcerers
                  and
                  > bards would get their next level of spells, both known and per
                  day.  I
                  > believe you'll find that all the other Prestige classes that 'add
                  > existing class' whould affect sorcerer and bards the same as cleric
                  > and wizards.
                  >
                  >
                  > Mario



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                • mocha@mcs.net
                  There are two components to your spell list: 1. how many you can know 2. how many you can cast For wizards and divine spellcasters, component #1 is irrelevant
                  Message 8 of 26 , Mar 1, 2001
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                    There are two components to your spell list:
                    1. how many you can know
                    2. how many you can cast

                    For wizards and divine spellcasters, component #1 is irrelevant since
                    they have no limit. For bards and sorcerers, the number of spells you
                    can know is crucial. My code adds virtual levels to determine how
                    many spells you can cast, but not to how many you can know. What I'm
                    wondering is a Sorceror 6 Loremaster 4 can cast as many spells as a
                    10th level Sorcerer, but does he *know* as many spells as a 10th
                    level Sorcerer or as a 6th level Sorcerer? My hunch is 10th, but the
                    code is currently saying 6th. Can you cite from the book something
                    that would say which is right?

                    -Bryan

                    --- In pcgen@y..., zebuleon@p... wrote:
                    > --- In pcgen@y..., mocha@m... wrote:
                    > > You're right - does the dmg specify for the Loremaster spells
                    cast
                    > > only in terms of what the increase in level affects? If not,
                    then I
                    > > think PCGen is in error and should reference the increase in
                    level
                    > > for how many spells can be known as well. An easy code change - I
                    > > simply don't have my book and would like it confirmed before I
                    make
                    > > that change.
                    > >
                    > > -Bryan
                    > >
                    >
                    > I'm a little confused by what your asking, but I'll give an example
                    > that might answer your question.
                    >
                    > Wizard 4/Lormaster 6 would be able to cast spells as if he was a
                    > 10th level wizard. if you have another spellcaster class(wizard
                    and
                    > cleric) when you advance as lormaster you need to choose which
                    > one(wizard or cleric) gains the level of spells.
                    >
                    > hope this helps
                    >
                    > Mario
                  • Moulton, Ernie Mr USAREC
                    No, I disagree. the character gains new spells per day as if she had also gained a level in a spellcasting class she belonged to before she A sosrcerer or Bard
                    Message 9 of 26 , Mar 1, 2001
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                      No, I disagree. 
                      the character gains new spells per day as if she had also gained a level in a spellcasting class she belonged to before she
                      A sosrcerer or Bard gain new spells learne(known) as well as the number they can cast daily when they gain a class level... looks the same to me.
                       

                        Ernie Moulton
                        E-Mail Administrator º+
                        ACS / HQ USAREC
                        502 626-1664  FAX 502 626-0994
                        mailto:moulton@...


                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: john.sussenberger@... [mailto:john.sussenberger@...]
                      Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 1:34 PM
                      To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: RE: [pcgen] Re: Bug in ADD:Spellcaster tag

                      From the d20 SRD
                       

                      Spells per Day: A loremaster continues training in magic as well as her field of research. Thus, when a new loremaster level is gained, the character gains new spells per day as if she had also gained a level in a spellcasting class she belonged to before she added the prestige class. She does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained (improved chance of controlling or rebuking un­dead, metamagic or item creation feats, and so on). This essentially means that she adds the level of loremaster to the level of some other spellcasting class the character has, then determines spells per day and caster level accordingly.

                      If a character had more than one spellcasting class before she became a lore­master, she must decide to which class she adds each level of loremaster for purposes of determining spells per day when she adds the new level. 

                      So it seems that known spells is not specifically incremented, very interesting.

                       

                      -John-

                       

                       

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: mocha@... [mailto:mocha@...]
                      Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 1:23 PM
                      To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [pcgen] Re: Bug in ADD:Spellcaster tag

                      You're right - does the dmg specify for the Loremaster spells cast
                      only in terms of what the increase in level affects?  If not, then I
                      think PCGen is in error and should reference the increase in level
                      for how many spells can be known as well. An easy code change - I
                      simply don't have my book and would like it confirmed before I make
                      that change.

                      -Bryan

                      --- In pcgen@y..., zebuleon@p... wrote:
                      > > But, yes, its just like the Loremaster in that it adds to an
                      > existing spell
                      > > caster level.
                      > >
                      > > So, what you are saying is that the loremaster doesn't gain any
                      > spells
                      > > known as it advances in levels?  Hmmm... I suppose this may be
                      > correct, but
                      > > that would make the class (and others like it) quite useless for
                      > sorcerers
                      > > (and bards).  After all, if they don't get more spells known,
                      what
                      > good
                      > > does it do them when they get spells castable of higher levels?
                      They
                      > > wouldn't KNOW any.
                      > >
                      > > This doesn't seem right, as other classes aren't penalized in
                      this
                      > way for
                      > > these Prestige classes.  A wizard can add those higher level
                      spells
                      > to his
                      > > book, a cleric would be granted higher level spells by his deity,
                      > etc.
                      > > Only a bard and a sorcerer would end up being severely restricted
                      by
                      > the
                      > > Loremaster (and other spell casting classes which increment
                      caster
                      > level of
                      > > existing classes), and I don't think that was the game designers
                      > intention.
                      > >
                      >
                      > I do believe that the the sorcerer would gain both their known
                      spells
                      > and spells per day.  because the later is entirely useless without
                      the
                      > known spells.  They refer to 'spells per day' as an example, but
                      you
                      > are adding '+1 level of existing class' which means that sorcerers
                      and
                      > bards would get their next level of spells, both known and per
                      day.  I
                      > believe you'll find that all the other Prestige classes that 'add
                      > existing class' whould affect sorcerer and bards the same as cleric
                      > and wizards.
                      >
                      >
                      > Mario



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                    • Shane Harsch
                      For that matter, if it doesn t increase the number of known spells for a Sorcerer, it doesn t for a Wizard as well. A Wizard learns 2 new spells per level. I
                      Message 10 of 26 , Mar 1, 2001
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                        For that matter, if it doesn't increase the number of known spells for a Sorcerer, it doesn't for a Wizard as well. A Wizard learns 2 new spells per level. I think both are in question. Just because the Sorcerer/Bard has a chart and the Wizard does not is irrelivant. Are known spells included or not?
                         
                        My .02 until someone contacts Wiz hotline: known spells increase, otherwise how will a spellcaster be able to cast higher level spells if they can't learn them? For example: Level 6 Wiz becomes level 1 Loremaster, thus allowing 1 4th level spell casting/day. If he can't learn his 2 spells, how is this useful from that point on out?
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 1:41 PM
                        Subject: RE: [pcgen] Re: Bug in ADD:Spellcaster tag

                        No, I disagree. 
                        the character gains new spells per day as if she had also gained a level in a spellcasting class she belonged to before she
                        A sosrcerer or Bard gain new spells learne(known) as well as the number they can cast daily when they gain a class level... looks the same to me.
                         

                          Ernie Moulton
                          E-Mail Administrator º+
                          ACS / HQ USAREC
                          502 626-1664  FAX 502 626-0994
                          mailto:moulton@...


                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: john.sussenberger@... [mailto:john.sussenberger@...]
                        Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 1:34 PM
                        To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [pcgen] Re: Bug in ADD:Spellcaster tag

                        From the d20 SRD
                         

                        Spells per Day: A loremaster continues training in magic as well as her field of research. Thus, when a new loremaster level is gained, the character gains new spells per day as if she had also gained a level in a spellcasting class she belonged to before she added the prestige class. She does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained (improved chance of controlling or rebuking un­dead, metamagic or item creation feats, and so on). This essentially means that she adds the level of loremaster to the level of some other spellcasting class the character has, then determines spells per day and caster level accordingly.

                        If a character had more than one spellcasting class before she became a lore­master, she must decide to which class she adds each level of loremaster for purposes of determining spells per day when she adds the new level. 

                        So it seems that known spells is not specifically incremented, very interesting.

                         

                        -John-

                         

                         

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: mocha@... [mailto:mocha@...]
                        Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 1:23 PM
                        To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [pcgen] Re: Bug in ADD:Spellcaster tag

                        You're right - does the dmg specify for the Loremaster spells cast
                        only in terms of what the increase in level affects?  If not, then I
                        think PCGen is in error and should reference the increase in level
                        for how many spells can be known as well. An easy code change - I
                        simply don't have my book and would like it confirmed before I make
                        that change.

                        -Bryan

                        --- In pcgen@y..., zebuleon@p... wrote:
                        > > But, yes, its just like the Loremaster in that it adds to an
                        > existing spell
                        > > caster level.
                        > >
                        > > So, what you are saying is that the loremaster doesn't gain any
                        > spells
                        > > known as it advances in levels?  Hmmm... I suppose this may be
                        > correct, but
                        > > that would make the class (and others like it) quite useless for
                        > sorcerers
                        > > (and bards).  After all, if they don't get more spells known,
                        what
                        > good
                        > > does it do them when they get spells castable of higher levels?
                        They
                        > > wouldn't KNOW any.
                        > >
                        > > This doesn't seem right, as other classes aren't penalized in
                        this
                        > way for
                        > > these Prestige classes.  A wizard can add those higher level
                        spells
                        > to his
                        > > book, a cleric would be granted higher level spells by his deity,
                        > etc.
                        > > Only a bard and a sorcerer would end up being severely restricted
                        by
                        > the
                        > > Loremaster (and other spell casting classes which increment
                        caster
                        > level of
                        > > existing classes), and I don't think that was the game designers
                        > intention.
                        > >
                        >
                        > I do believe that the the sorcerer would gain both their known
                        spells
                        > and spells per day.  because the later is entirely useless without
                        the
                        > known spells.  They refer to 'spells per day' as an example, but
                        you
                        > are adding '+1 level of existing class' which means that sorcerers
                        and
                        > bards would get their next level of spells, both known and per
                        day.  I
                        > believe you'll find that all the other Prestige classes that 'add
                        > existing class' whould affect sorcerer and bards the same as cleric
                        > and wizards.
                        >
                        >
                        > Mario



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                      • Sussenberger, John
                        Oh, I totally agree with you, but Bryan wanted the official ruling. Someone should contact the sage and ask him (unless this was already covered in a Dragon
                        Message 11 of 26 , Mar 1, 2001
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                          Oh, I totally agree with you, but Bryan wanted the "official" ruling.  Someone should contact the sage and ask him (unless this was already covered in a Dragon mag).  What other classes increase spellcaster levels.  If I have the book on me, I can check.
                           
                          BTW, that is the rule for the Loremaster.  Not every class made.  Each class may be different.
                           
                          -John @ work- (wishing he was at home to check his stack of Dragon magz)
                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: Moulton, Ernie Mr USAREC [mailto:moulton@...]
                          Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 1:41 PM
                          To: 'pcgen@yahoogroups.com'
                          Subject: RE: [pcgen] Re: Bug in ADD:Spellcaster tag

                          No, I disagree. 
                          the character gains new spells per day as if she had also gained a level in a spellcasting class she belonged to before she
                          A sosrcerer or Bard gain new spells learne(known) as well as the number they can cast daily when they gain a class level... looks the same to me.
                           

                            Ernie Moulton
                            E-Mail Administrator º+
                            ACS / HQ USAREC
                            502 626-1664  FAX 502 626-0994
                            mailto:moulton@...


                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: john.sussenberger@... [mailto:john.sussenberger@...]
                          Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 1:34 PM
                          To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: RE: [pcgen] Re: Bug in ADD:Spellcaster tag

                          From the d20 SRD
                           

                          Spells per Day: A loremaster continues training in magic as well as her field of research. Thus, when a new loremaster level is gained, the character gains new spells per day as if she had also gained a level in a spellcasting class she belonged to before she added the prestige class. She does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained (improved chance of controlling or rebuking un­dead, metamagic or item creation feats, and so on). This essentially means that she adds the level of loremaster to the level of some other spellcasting class the character has, then determines spells per day and caster level accordingly.

                          If a character had more than one spellcasting class before she became a lore­master, she must decide to which class she adds each level of loremaster for purposes of determining spells per day when she adds the new level. 

                          So it seems that known spells is not specifically incremented, very interesting.

                           

                          -John-

                           

                           

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: mocha@... [mailto:mocha@...]
                          Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 1:23 PM
                          To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [pcgen] Re: Bug in ADD:Spellcaster tag

                          You're right - does the dmg specify for the Loremaster spells cast
                          only in terms of what the increase in level affects?  If not, then I
                          think PCGen is in error and should reference the increase in level
                          for how many spells can be known as well. An easy code change - I
                          simply don't have my book and would like it confirmed before I make
                          that change.

                          -Bryan

                          --- In pcgen@y..., zebuleon@p... wrote:
                          > > But, yes, its just like the Loremaster in that it adds to an
                          > existing spell
                          > > caster level.
                          > >
                          > > So, what you are saying is that the loremaster doesn't gain any
                          > spells
                          > > known as it advances in levels?  Hmmm... I suppose this may be
                          > correct, but
                          > > that would make the class (and others like it) quite useless for
                          > sorcerers
                          > > (and bards).  After all, if they don't get more spells known,
                          what
                          > good
                          > > does it do them when they get spells castable of higher levels?
                          They
                          > > wouldn't KNOW any.
                          > >
                          > > This doesn't seem right, as other classes aren't penalized in
                          this
                          > way for
                          > > these Prestige classes.  A wizard can add those higher level
                          spells
                          > to his
                          > > book, a cleric would be granted higher level spells by his deity,
                          > etc.
                          > > Only a bard and a sorcerer would end up being severely restricted
                          by
                          > the
                          > > Loremaster (and other spell casting classes which increment
                          caster
                          > level of
                          > > existing classes), and I don't think that was the game designers
                          > intention.
                          > >
                          >
                          > I do believe that the the sorcerer would gain both their known
                          spells
                          > and spells per day.  because the later is entirely useless without
                          the
                          > known spells.  They refer to 'spells per day' as an example, but
                          you
                          > are adding '+1 level of existing class' which means that sorcerers
                          and
                          > bards would get their next level of spells, both known and per
                          day.  I
                          > believe you'll find that all the other Prestige classes that 'add
                          > existing class' whould affect sorcerer and bards the same as cleric
                          > and wizards.
                          >
                          >
                          > Mario



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                        • zebuleon@peoplepc.com
                          ... since ... you ... Unfortunately they keep referring to it as spells per day but within the example they state it better. if gremda, an 8th level wizard
                          Message 12 of 26 , Mar 1, 2001
                          • 0 Attachment
                            --- In pcgen@y..., mocha@m... wrote:
                            > There are two components to your spell list:
                            > 1. how many you can know
                            > 2. how many you can cast
                            >
                            > For wizards and divine spellcasters, component #1 is irrelevant
                            since
                            > they have no limit. For bards and sorcerers, the number of spells
                            you
                            > can know is crucial. My code adds virtual levels to determine how
                            > many spells you can cast, but not to how many you can know. What I'm
                            > wondering is a Sorceror 6 Loremaster 4 can cast as many spells as a
                            > 10th level Sorcerer, but does he *know* as many spells as a 10th
                            > level Sorcerer or as a 6th level Sorcerer? My hunch is 10th, but the
                            > code is currently saying 6th. Can you cite from the book something
                            > that would say which is right?
                            >
                            > -Bryan
                            >

                            Unfortunately they keep referring to it as spells per day but within
                            the example they state it better.

                            if gremda, an 8th level wizard gains a level in lormaster, she gains
                            new spells as if she had risen to 9th level in wizard,...if she next
                            gains a level of wizard, making her a 9th level wizard/1st-level
                            lormaster, she gains and casts spells as if she had risen to 10th
                            level wizard.

                            since wizards do gain 2 spells to add to spellbook effectivly
                            'known' spells each level as well as more to cast it seems that this
                            would effect everything. But I do believe someone should get the
                            'Official' word about it.

                            Mario
                          • mocha@mcs.net
                            No - what you re thinking of is the guideline that a Wizard can add two new spells to their spellbook when they advance. There is no cap on the number of
                            Message 13 of 26 , Mar 1, 2001
                            • 0 Attachment
                              No - what you're thinking of is the guideline that a Wizard can add
                              two new spells to their spellbook when they advance. There is no cap
                              on the number of spells a Wizard can have in their spellbook for any
                              level. In addition to these 2 spells per level increase, there is no
                              limit to the number of spells a Wizard can research on their own.
                              Thus, I have not implemented a KNOWN: limit for Wizards as it would
                              be impossible to maintain.

                              -Bryan

                              --- In pcgen@y..., "Shane Harsch" <shane@t...> wrote:
                              > For that matter, if it doesn't increase the number of known spells
                              for a Sorcerer, it doesn't for a Wizard as well. A Wizard learns 2
                              new spells per level. I think both are in question. Just because the
                              Sorcerer/Bard has a chart and the Wizard does not is irrelivant. Are
                              known spells included or not?
                              >
                              > My .02 until someone contacts Wiz hotline: known spells increase,
                              otherwise how will a spellcaster be able to cast higher level spells
                              if they can't learn them? For example: Level 6 Wiz becomes level 1
                              Loremaster, thus allowing 1 4th level spell casting/day. If he can't
                              learn his 2 spells, how is this useful from that point on out?
                              > ----- Original Message -----
                              > From: Moulton, Ernie Mr USAREC
                              > To: 'pcgen@y...'
                              > Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 1:41 PM
                              > Subject: RE: [pcgen] Re: Bug in ADD:Spellcaster tag
                              >
                              >
                              > No, I disagree.
                              > the character gains new spells per day as if she had also gained
                              a level in a spellcasting class she belonged to before she
                              > A sosrcerer or Bard gain new spells learne(known) as well as the
                              number they can cast daily when they gain a class level... looks the
                              same to me.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Ernie Moulton
                              > E-Mail Administrator º+
                              > ACS / HQ USAREC
                              > 502 626-1664 FAX 502 626-0994
                              > mailto:moulton@u...
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > -----Original Message-----
                              > From: john.sussenberger@l... [mailto:john.sussenberger@l...]
                              > Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 1:34 PM
                              > To: pcgen@y...
                              > Subject: RE: [pcgen] Re: Bug in ADD:Spellcaster tag
                              >
                              >
                              > From the d20 SRD
                              >
                              > Spells per Day: A loremaster continues training in magic as
                              well as her field of research. Thus, when a new loremaster level is
                              gained, the character gains new spells per day as if she had also
                              gained a level in a spellcasting class she belonged to before she
                              added the prestige class. She does not, however, gain any other
                              benefit a character of that class would have gained (improved chance
                              of controlling or rebuking un­dead, metamagic or item creation feats,
                              and so on). This essentially means that she adds the level of
                              loremaster to the level of some other spellcasting class the
                              character has, then determines spells per day and caster level
                              accordingly.
                              >
                              > If a character had more than one spellcasting class before she
                              became a lore­master, she must decide to which class she adds each
                              level of loremaster for purposes of determining spells per day when
                              she adds the new level.
                              >
                              > So it seems that known spells is not specifically incremented,
                              very interesting.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > -John-
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > -----Original Message-----
                              > From: mocha@m... [mailto:mocha@m...]
                              > Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 1:23 PM
                              > To: pcgen@y...
                              > Subject: [pcgen] Re: Bug in ADD:Spellcaster tag
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > You're right - does the dmg specify for the Loremaster spells
                              cast
                              > only in terms of what the increase in level affects? If not,
                              then I
                              > think PCGen is in error and should reference the increase in
                              level
                              > for how many spells can be known as well. An easy code change
                              - I
                              > simply don't have my book and would like it confirmed before
                              I make
                              > that change.
                              >
                              > -Bryan
                              >
                              > --- In pcgen@y..., zebuleon@p... wrote:
                              > > > But, yes, its just like the Loremaster in that it adds to
                              an
                              > > existing spell
                              > > > caster level.
                              > > >
                              > > > So, what you are saying is that the loremaster doesn't
                              gain any
                              > > spells
                              > > > known as it advances in levels? Hmmm... I suppose this
                              may be
                              > > correct, but
                              > > > that would make the class (and others like it) quite
                              useless for
                              > > sorcerers
                              > > > (and bards). After all, if they don't get more spells
                              known,
                              > what
                              > > good
                              > > > does it do them when they get spells castable of higher
                              levels?
                              > They
                              > > > wouldn't KNOW any.
                              > > >
                              > > > This doesn't seem right, as other classes aren't
                              penalized in
                              > this
                              > > way for
                              > > > these Prestige classes. A wizard can add those higher
                              level
                              > spells
                              > > to his
                              > > > book, a cleric would be granted higher level spells by
                              his deity,
                              > > etc.
                              > > > Only a bard and a sorcerer would end up being severely
                              restricted
                              > by
                              > > the
                              > > > Loremaster (and other spell casting classes which
                              increment
                              > caster
                              > > level of
                              > > > existing classes), and I don't think that was the game
                              designers
                              > > intention.
                              > > >
                              > >
                              > > I do believe that the the sorcerer would gain both their
                              known
                              > spells
                              > > and spells per day. because the later is entirely useless
                              without
                              > the
                              > > known spells. They refer to 'spells per day' as an
                              example, but
                              > you
                              > > are adding '+1 level of existing class' which means that
                              sorcerers
                              > and
                              > > bards would get their next level of spells, both known and
                              per
                              > day. I
                              > > believe you'll find that all the other Prestige classes
                              that 'add
                              > > existing class' whould affect sorcerer and bards the same
                              as cleric
                              > > and wizards.
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Mario
                              >
                              >
                              >
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                            • zebuleon@peoplepc.com
                              In R&R they refer to it as spellcaster class and say nothing about spells per day but its the same thing. Mario
                              Message 14 of 26 , Mar 1, 2001
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                                In R&R they refer to it as spellcaster class and say nothing about
                                'spells per day' but its the same thing.


                                Mario
                              • mocha@mcs.net
                                So who wants to email Mr. Tweet (isn t he the sage?) and get an official ruling? Maybe a post on the dnd newsgroup? -Bryan ... I m ... a ... the ... something
                                Message 15 of 26 , Mar 1, 2001
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                                  So who wants to email Mr. Tweet (isn't he the sage?) and get an
                                  official ruling? Maybe a post on the dnd newsgroup?

                                  -Bryan

                                  --- In pcgen@y..., zebuleon@p... wrote:
                                  > --- In pcgen@y..., mocha@m... wrote:
                                  > > There are two components to your spell list:
                                  > > 1. how many you can know
                                  > > 2. how many you can cast
                                  > >
                                  > > For wizards and divine spellcasters, component #1 is irrelevant
                                  > since
                                  > > they have no limit. For bards and sorcerers, the number of spells
                                  > you
                                  > > can know is crucial. My code adds virtual levels to determine how
                                  > > many spells you can cast, but not to how many you can know. What
                                  I'm
                                  > > wondering is a Sorceror 6 Loremaster 4 can cast as many spells as
                                  a
                                  > > 10th level Sorcerer, but does he *know* as many spells as a 10th
                                  > > level Sorcerer or as a 6th level Sorcerer? My hunch is 10th, but
                                  the
                                  > > code is currently saying 6th. Can you cite from the book
                                  something
                                  > > that would say which is right?
                                  > >
                                  > > -Bryan
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > Unfortunately they keep referring to it as spells per day but
                                  within
                                  > the example they state it better.
                                  >
                                  > if gremda, an 8th level wizard gains a level in lormaster, she
                                  gains
                                  > new spells as if she had risen to 9th level in wizard,...if she
                                  next
                                  > gains a level of wizard, making her a 9th level wizard/1st-level
                                  > lormaster, she gains and casts spells as if she had risen to 10th
                                  > level wizard.
                                  >
                                  > since wizards do gain 2 spells to add to spellbook effectivly
                                  > 'known' spells each level as well as more to cast it seems that
                                  this
                                  > would effect everything. But I do believe someone should get the
                                  > 'Official' word about it.
                                  >
                                  > Mario
                                • zebuleon@peoplepc.com
                                  ... I understand that point, and I m not saying that you should implenent anything for it. I was using it as a comparsion, yes a wizard can have any number of
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Mar 1, 2001
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                                    --- In pcgen@y..., mocha@m... wrote:
                                    > No - what you're thinking of is the guideline that a Wizard can add
                                    > two new spells to their spellbook when they advance. There is no cap
                                    > on the number of spells a Wizard can have in their spellbook for any
                                    > level. In addition to these 2 spells per level increase, there is no
                                    > limit to the number of spells a Wizard can research on their own.
                                    > Thus, I have not implemented a KNOWN: limit for Wizards as it would
                                    > be impossible to maintain.
                                    >
                                    > -Bryan
                                    >
                                    >

                                    I understand that point, and I'm not saying that you should implenent
                                    anything for it. I was using it as a comparsion, yes a wizard can
                                    have any number of spells in their spellbook, but if they don't ever
                                    find any other spells they will always at least get 2 spells to add to
                                    their 'list of castable spells'. This is similar to the way sorcerers
                                    gain spells to their 'list of castable spells'. so thats why I think
                                    that loremaster would add to both these "lists". for coding purposes
                                    it should not have to effect wizards at all.

                                    Mario
                                  • zebuleon@peoplepc.com
                                    I emailed sage advice about this. I ll let you know what I find out. Mario
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Mar 1, 2001
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                                      I emailed sage advice about this. I'll let you know what I find out.

                                      Mario
                                    • mocha@mcs.net
                                      Thanks! It would take me about 4 lines of code to add this capability, I just want to be sure it s official . :) -Bryan ... out.
                                      Message 18 of 26 , Mar 1, 2001
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                                        Thanks! It would take me about 4 lines of code to add this
                                        capability, I just want to be sure it's 'official'. :)

                                        -Bryan

                                        --- In pcgen@y..., zebuleon@p... wrote:
                                        > I emailed sage advice about this. I'll let you know what I find
                                        out.
                                        >
                                        > Mario
                                      • Shawn Chesak
                                        I also emailed sage advice, as well as general game-system question customer service. And I emailed 2 D&D mailing lists and one D&D forum that actively discuss
                                        Message 19 of 26 , Mar 1, 2001
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                                          I also emailed sage advice, as well as general game-system question customer service.
                                           
                                          And I emailed 2 D&D mailing lists and one D&D forum that actively discuss the game system, and often get official responses from the Sage on various issues (in case they already asked this one a while back).
                                           
                                          Heheh...maybe I was a little excessive in how many feelers I put out for the answer, but I always like to cover all the bases.
                                           
                                          ---
                                          Shawn A. Chesak
                                          Stormkeep GM -- http://www.stormkeep.net
                                        • Damian
                                          I got quick responses from customer service. : ) ... From: mocha@mcs.net To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 1:04 PM Subject: [pcgen] Re:
                                          Message 20 of 26 , Mar 1, 2001
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                                            I got quick responses from customer service. : )
                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                            From: mocha@...
                                            Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 1:04 PM
                                            Subject: [pcgen] Re: Bug in ADD:Spellcaster tag

                                            So who wants to email Mr. Tweet (isn't he the sage?) and get an
                                            official ruling? Maybe a post on the dnd newsgroup?

                                            -Bryan

                                            --- In pcgen@y..., zebuleon@p... wrote:
                                            > --- In pcgen@y..., mocha@m... wrote:
                                            > > There are two components to your spell list:
                                            > > 1. how many you can know
                                            > > 2. how many you can cast
                                            > >
                                            > > For wizards and divine spellcasters, component #1 is irrelevant
                                            > since
                                            > > they have no limit. For bards and sorcerers, the number of spells
                                            > you
                                            > > can know is crucial. My code adds virtual levels to determine how
                                            > > many spells you can cast, but not to how many you can know. What
                                            I'm
                                            > > wondering is a Sorceror 6 Loremaster 4 can cast as many spells as
                                            a
                                            > > 10th level Sorcerer, but does he *know* as many spells as a 10th
                                            > > level Sorcerer or as a 6th level Sorcerer? My hunch is 10th, but
                                            the
                                            > > code is currently saying 6th. Can you cite from the book
                                            something
                                            > > that would say which is right?
                                            > >
                                            > > -Bryan
                                            > >
                                            >
                                            > Unfortunately they keep referring to it as spells per day but
                                            within
                                            > the example they state it better.
                                            >
                                            > if gremda, an 8th level wizard gains a level in lormaster, she
                                            gains
                                            > new spells as if she had risen to 9th level in wizard,...if she
                                            next
                                            > gains a level of wizard, making her a 9th level wizard/1st-level
                                            > lormaster, she gains and casts spells as if she had risen to 10th
                                            > level wizard.
                                            >
                                            > since wizards do gain 2 spells to add to spellbook effectivly
                                            > 'known' spells each level as well as more to cast it seems that
                                            this
                                            > would effect everything.  But I do believe someone should get the
                                            > 'Official' word about it.
                                            >
                                            > Mario



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                                          • john.sussenberger@libertymutual.com
                                            I would not expect anything back from WOTC since they are, AFAIK, not at work until the building is fixed. I guess they had some significant damage from the
                                            Message 21 of 26 , Mar 1, 2001
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                                              I would not expect anything back from WOTC since they are, AFAIK, not at work until the building is fixed.  I guess they had some significant damage from the earthquake.
                                               
                                              Just my 2 cents.
                                               
                                              -John-
                                               
                                               
                                              -----Original Message-----
                                              From: Damian [mailto:westfam@...]
                                              Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 8:22 PM
                                              To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subject: Re: [pcgen] Re: Bug in ADD:Spellcaster tag

                                              I got quick responses from customer service. : )
                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                              From: mocha@...
                                              Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 1:04 PM
                                              Subject: [pcgen] Re: Bug in ADD:Spellcaster tag

                                              So who wants to email Mr. Tweet (isn't he the sage?) and get an
                                              official ruling? Maybe a post on the dnd newsgroup?

                                              -Bryan

                                              --- In pcgen@y..., zebuleon@p... wrote:
                                              > --- In pcgen@y..., mocha@m... wrote:
                                              > > There are two components to your spell list:
                                              > > 1. how many you can know
                                              > > 2. how many you can cast
                                              > >
                                              > > For wizards and divine spellcasters, component #1 is irrelevant
                                              > since
                                              > > they have no limit. For bards and sorcerers, the number of spells
                                              > you
                                              > > can know is crucial. My code adds virtual levels to determine how
                                              > > many spells you can cast, but not to how many you can know. What
                                              I'm
                                              > > wondering is a Sorceror 6 Loremaster 4 can cast as many spells as
                                              a
                                              > > 10th level Sorcerer, but does he *know* as many spells as a 10th
                                              > > level Sorcerer or as a 6th level Sorcerer? My hunch is 10th, but
                                              the
                                              > > code is currently saying 6th. Can you cite from the book
                                              something
                                              > > that would say which is right?
                                              > >
                                              > > -Bryan
                                              > >
                                              >
                                              > Unfortunately they keep referring to it as spells per day but
                                              within
                                              > the example they state it better.
                                              >
                                              > if gremda, an 8th level wizard gains a level in lormaster, she
                                              gains
                                              > new spells as if she had risen to 9th level in wizard,...if she
                                              next
                                              > gains a level of wizard, making her a 9th level wizard/1st-level
                                              > lormaster, she gains and casts spells as if she had risen to 10th
                                              > level wizard.
                                              >
                                              > since wizards do gain 2 spells to add to spellbook effectivly
                                              > 'known' spells each level as well as more to cast it seems that
                                              this
                                              > would effect everything.  But I do believe someone should get the
                                              > 'Official' word about it.
                                              >
                                              > Mario



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                                            • Damian
                                              sorry. brainfarted. hell of a time for an earthquake. isnt it bad enought that it rains 360 days a year up there? ... From:
                                              Message 22 of 26 , Mar 1, 2001
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                                                sorry.  brainfarted.  hell of a time for an earthquake.  isnt' it bad enought that it rains 360 days a year up there?
                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 7:22 PM
                                                Subject: RE: [pcgen] Re: Bug in ADD:Spellcaster tag

                                                I would not expect anything back from WOTC since they are, AFAIK, not at work until the building is fixed.  I guess they had some significant damage from the earthquake.
                                                 
                                                Just my 2 cents.
                                                 
                                                -John-
                                                 
                                                 
                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                From: Damian [mailto:westfam@...]
                                                Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 8:22 PM
                                                To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                                                Subject: Re: [pcgen] Re: Bug in ADD:Spellcaster tag

                                                I got quick responses from customer service. : )
                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                From: mocha@...
                                                Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 1:04 PM
                                                Subject: [pcgen] Re: Bug in ADD:Spellcaster tag

                                                So who wants to email Mr. Tweet (isn't he the sage?) and get an
                                                official ruling? Maybe a post on the dnd newsgroup?

                                                -Bryan

                                                --- In pcgen@y..., zebuleon@p... wrote:
                                                > --- In pcgen@y..., mocha@m... wrote:
                                                > > There are two components to your spell list:
                                                > > 1. how many you can know
                                                > > 2. how many you can cast
                                                > >
                                                > > For wizards and divine spellcasters, component #1 is irrelevant
                                                > since
                                                > > they have no limit. For bards and sorcerers, the number of spells
                                                > you
                                                > > can know is crucial. My code adds virtual levels to determine how
                                                > > many spells you can cast, but not to how many you can know. What
                                                I'm
                                                > > wondering is a Sorceror 6 Loremaster 4 can cast as many spells as
                                                a
                                                > > 10th level Sorcerer, but does he *know* as many spells as a 10th
                                                > > level Sorcerer or as a 6th level Sorcerer? My hunch is 10th, but
                                                the
                                                > > code is currently saying 6th. Can you cite from the book
                                                something
                                                > > that would say which is right?
                                                > >
                                                > > -Bryan
                                                > >
                                                >
                                                > Unfortunately they keep referring to it as spells per day but
                                                within
                                                > the example they state it better.
                                                >
                                                > if gremda, an 8th level wizard gains a level in lormaster, she
                                                gains
                                                > new spells as if she had risen to 9th level in wizard,...if she
                                                next
                                                > gains a level of wizard, making her a 9th level wizard/1st-level
                                                > lormaster, she gains and casts spells as if she had risen to 10th
                                                > level wizard.
                                                >
                                                > since wizards do gain 2 spells to add to spellbook effectivly
                                                > 'known' spells each level as well as more to cast it seems that
                                                this
                                                > would effect everything.  But I do believe someone should get the
                                                > 'Official' word about it.
                                                >
                                                > Mario



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                                              • Shawn Chesak
                                                I was informed on Eric Noah s D&D message boards by a few people that they /think/ they recall someone emailing the Sage about this very issue a while back,
                                                Message 23 of 26 , Mar 1, 2001
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  I was informed on Eric Noah's D&D message boards by a few people that they /think/ they recall someone emailing the Sage about this very issue a while back, and that he said the Sorcerers gain spells known as well as cast/day.
                                                   
                                                  Also, that this IS for sure for the Eldritch master as well.
                                                   
                                                  This was the opinion of a few people there.
                                                   
                                                  I should mention, however, that one person recalled that Skip had said exactly the opposite....
                                                   
                                                  So, its wait for official response time I imagine. :-)

                                                  ---
                                                  Shawn A. Chesak
                                                  Stormkeep GM -- http://www.stormkeep.net

                                                  -----Original Message-----
                                                  From: Damian [mailto:westfam@...]
                                                  Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 5:30 PM
                                                  To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Subject: Re: [pcgen] Re: Bug in ADD:Spellcaster tag

                                                  sorry.  brainfarted.  hell of a time for an earthquake.  isnt' it bad enought that it rains 360 days a year up there?
                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                  Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 7:22 PM
                                                  Subject: RE: [pcgen] Re: Bug in ADD:Spellcaster tag

                                                  I would not expect anything back from WOTC since they are, AFAIK, not at work until the building is fixed.  I guess they had some significant damage from the earthquake.
                                                   
                                                  Just my 2 cents.
                                                   
                                                  -John-
                                                   
                                                   
                                                  -----Original Message-----
                                                  From: Damian [mailto:westfam@...]
                                                  Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 8:22 PM
                                                  To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Subject: Re: [pcgen] Re: Bug in ADD:Spellcaster tag

                                                  I got quick responses from customer service. : )
                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                  From: mocha@...
                                                  Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 1:04 PM
                                                  Subject: [pcgen] Re: Bug in ADD:Spellcaster tag

                                                  So who wants to email Mr. Tweet (isn't he the sage?) and get an
                                                  official ruling? Maybe a post on the dnd newsgroup?

                                                  -Bryan

                                                  --- In pcgen@y..., zebuleon@p... wrote:
                                                  > --- In pcgen@y..., mocha@m... wrote:
                                                  > > There are two components to your spell list:
                                                  > > 1. how many you can know
                                                  > > 2. how many you can cast
                                                  > >
                                                  > > For wizards and divine spellcasters, component #1 is irrelevant
                                                  > since
                                                  > > they have no limit. For bards and sorcerers, the number of spells
                                                  > you
                                                  > > can know is crucial. My code adds virtual levels to determine how
                                                  > > many spells you can cast, but not to how many you can know. What
                                                  I'm
                                                  > > wondering is a Sorceror 6 Loremaster 4 can cast as many spells as
                                                  a
                                                  > > 10th level Sorcerer, but does he *know* as many spells as a 10th
                                                  > > level Sorcerer or as a 6th level Sorcerer? My hunch is 10th, but
                                                  the
                                                  > > code is currently saying 6th. Can you cite from the book
                                                  something
                                                  > > that would say which is right?
                                                  > >
                                                  > > -Bryan
                                                  > >
                                                  >
                                                  > Unfortunately they keep referring to it as spells per day but
                                                  within
                                                  > the example they state it better.
                                                  >
                                                  > if gremda, an 8th level wizard gains a level in lormaster, she
                                                  gains
                                                  > new spells as if she had risen to 9th level in wizard,...if she
                                                  next
                                                  > gains a level of wizard, making her a 9th level wizard/1st-level
                                                  > lormaster, she gains and casts spells as if she had risen to 10th
                                                  > level wizard.
                                                  >
                                                  > since wizards do gain 2 spells to add to spellbook effectivly
                                                  > 'known' spells each level as well as more to cast it seems that
                                                  this
                                                  > would effect everything.  But I do believe someone should get the
                                                  > 'Official' word about it.
                                                  >
                                                  > Mario



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                                                • David Cortijo
                                                  Just to clarify, the Eldritch Master does not gain levels in a casting class as the Loremaster does. They gain specific bonus Known Spells (but none castable)
                                                  Message 24 of 26 , Mar 1, 2001
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    Just to clarify, the Eldritch Master does not gain levels in a casting class as the Loremaster does.  They gain specific bonus Known Spells (but none castable) according to a table...
                                                     
                                                    Dave
                                                    -----Original Message-----
                                                    From: Shawn Chesak [mailto:shawnchesak@...]
                                                    Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 8:55 PM
                                                    To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Subject: RE: [pcgen] Re: Bug in ADD:Spellcaster tag

                                                    I was informed on Eric Noah's D&D message boards by a few people that they /think/ they recall someone emailing the Sage about this very issue a while back, and that he said the Sorcerers gain spells known as well as cast/day.
                                                     
                                                    Also, that this IS for sure for the Eldritch master as well.
                                                     
                                                    This was the opinion of a few people there.
                                                     
                                                    I should mention, however, that one person recalled that Skip had said exactly the opposite....
                                                     
                                                    So, its wait for official response time I imagine. :-)

                                                    ---
                                                    Shawn A. Chesak
                                                    Stormkeep GM -- http://www.stormkeep.net

                                                    -----Original Message-----
                                                    From: Damian [mailto:westfam@...]
                                                    Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 5:30 PM
                                                    To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Subject: Re: [pcgen] Re: Bug in ADD:Spellcaster tag

                                                    sorry.  brainfarted.  hell of a time for an earthquake.  isnt' it bad enought that it rains 360 days a year up there?
                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                    Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 7:22 PM
                                                    Subject: RE: [pcgen] Re: Bug in ADD:Spellcaster tag

                                                    I would not expect anything back from WOTC since they are, AFAIK, not at work until the building is fixed.  I guess they had some significant damage from the earthquake.
                                                     
                                                    Just my 2 cents.
                                                     
                                                    -John-
                                                     
                                                     
                                                    -----Original Message-----
                                                    From: Damian [mailto:westfam@...]
                                                    Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 8:22 PM
                                                    To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Subject: Re: [pcgen] Re: Bug in ADD:Spellcaster tag

                                                    I got quick responses from customer service. : )
                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                    From: mocha@...
                                                    Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 1:04 PM
                                                    Subject: [pcgen] Re: Bug in ADD:Spellcaster tag

                                                    So who wants to email Mr. Tweet (isn't he the sage?) and get an
                                                    official ruling? Maybe a post on the dnd newsgroup?

                                                    -Bryan

                                                    --- In pcgen@y..., zebuleon@p... wrote:
                                                    > --- In pcgen@y..., mocha@m... wrote:
                                                    > > There are two components to your spell list:
                                                    > > 1. how many you can know
                                                    > > 2. how many you can cast
                                                    > >
                                                    > > For wizards and divine spellcasters, component #1 is irrelevant
                                                    > since
                                                    > > they have no limit. For bards and sorcerers, the number of spells
                                                    > you
                                                    > > can know is crucial. My code adds virtual levels to determine how
                                                    > > many spells you can cast, but not to how many you can know. What
                                                    I'm
                                                    > > wondering is a Sorceror 6 Loremaster 4 can cast as many spells as
                                                    a
                                                    > > 10th level Sorcerer, but does he *know* as many spells as a 10th
                                                    > > level Sorcerer or as a 6th level Sorcerer? My hunch is 10th, but
                                                    the
                                                    > > code is currently saying 6th. Can you cite from the book
                                                    something
                                                    > > that would say which is right?
                                                    > >
                                                    > > -Bryan
                                                    > >
                                                    >
                                                    > Unfortunately they keep referring to it as spells per day but
                                                    within
                                                    > the example they state it better.
                                                    >
                                                    > if gremda, an 8th level wizard gains a level in lormaster, she
                                                    gains
                                                    > new spells as if she had risen to 9th level in wizard,...if she
                                                    next
                                                    > gains a level of wizard, making her a 9th level wizard/1st-level
                                                    > lormaster, she gains and casts spells as if she had risen to 10th
                                                    > level wizard.
                                                    >
                                                    > since wizards do gain 2 spells to add to spellbook effectivly
                                                    > 'known' spells each level as well as more to cast it seems that
                                                    this
                                                    > would effect everything.  But I do believe someone should get the
                                                    > 'Official' word about it.
                                                    >
                                                    > Mario



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