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3.5 Perform Untrained

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  • jimwschuler
    I was trying to figure out why none of the character sheets was showing the Perform skill for 3.5 characters. Then I looked at 6.00.1 and the latest build data
    Message 1 of 4 , Aug 1, 2013
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      I was trying to figure out why none of the character sheets was showing the Perform skill for 3.5 characters. Then I looked at 6.00.1 and the latest build data and found that Perform (Untrained) does not exist in rsrd_skills.lst.

      I'd also like to suggest the use of PRExxx with the USEUNTRAINED tag. When dealing with craft and perform, where USEUNTRAINED is used as a hack to prevent multiple subskills from displaying, a PRExxx tag could be used to display those that differ from the (Untrained) versions (such as when a masterwork tool is available).
    • Andrew
      Hi Jim, You were wondering why they weren t showing Perform? I don t think there has ever been a Perform (Untrained) in the repo, Craft (Untrained) yes. PRExxx
      Message 2 of 4 , Aug 1, 2013
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        Hi Jim,

        You were wondering why they weren't showing Perform? I don't think there has ever been a Perform
        (Untrained) in the repo, Craft (Untrained) yes.

        PRExxx won't work on a USEUNTRAINED tag. I can put a Perform (Untrained) if that is a request, easy
        to do.

        There is a temp modifier already in place that will modify the skills. The powers that be decided to
        give the base +0 modifier figuring people would assume to use the proper tools. (And prevent a lot
        of "This is a bug" reports).

        I'm gathering this is two feature requests then:
        1) Create a Untrained version of Perform
        2) Allow bonuses to display the various categories of Craft and, Perform to allow the tools that
        modify them to display those new changes.

        If you make those requests in JIRA (jira.pcgen.org), I'll see about implementing them.

        Cheers,

        On 8/1/2013 10:08 AM, jimwschuler wrote:
        > I was trying to figure out why none of the character sheets was showing the Perform skill for 3.5 characters.

        Then I looked at 6.00.1 and the latest build data and found that Perform (Untrained) does not exist
        in rsrd_skills.lst.
        >
        > I'd also like to suggest the use of PRExxx with the USEUNTRAINED tag.

        When dealing with craft and perform, where USEUNTRAINED is used as a hack to prevent multiple
        subskills from displaying,

        a PRExxx tag could be used to display those that differ from the (Untrained) versions

        (such as when a masterwork tool is available).
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Related Lists
        > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
        > PCGen's Mailing Lists and Links: http://wiki.pcgen.org/Mailing_Lists_and_PCGen_Links
        > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
        > PCGen's JIRA Tracker: http://jira.pcgen.org
        >
        >
        > PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
        > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
        >
        > PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
        > (for new official data source development)
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • jimwschuler
        I assumed that it did exist at one point, as a search for Perform (Untrained) in the lst help section hit some old results. But, maybe that was for a different
        Message 3 of 4 , Aug 1, 2013
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          I assumed that it did exist at one point, as a search for Perform (Untrained) in the lst help section hit some old results. But, maybe that was for a different dataset than 3.5.

          I know that PRExxx won't work on USEUNTRAINED. I'm sorry if I wasn't clearer. I was suggesting that be changed. You could then have something like

          USEUNTRAINED:NO|PREVAREQ:PerformStringDifference,0 USEUNTRAINED:YES|!PREVAREQ:PerformStringDifference,0 DEFINE:PerformStringDifference|skillinfo("MODIFIER", "Perform (String)")-skillinfo("MODIFIER", "Perform (Untrained)")

          Then the skill would show up on the output sheets if the skill bonus diverged from the general bonus given to the rest of the untrained skills of that category.

          --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Andrew <drew0500@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi Jim,
          >
          > You were wondering why they weren't showing Perform? I don't think there has ever been a Perform
          > (Untrained) in the repo, Craft (Untrained) yes.
          >
          > PRExxx won't work on a USEUNTRAINED tag. I can put a Perform (Untrained) if that is a request, easy
          > to do.
          >
          > There is a temp modifier already in place that will modify the skills. The powers that be decided to
          > give the base +0 modifier figuring people would assume to use the proper tools. (And prevent a lot
          > of "This is a bug" reports).
          >
          > I'm gathering this is two feature requests then:
          > 1) Create a Untrained version of Perform
          > 2) Allow bonuses to display the various categories of Craft and, Perform to allow the tools that
          > modify them to display those new changes.
          >
          > If you make those requests in JIRA (jira.pcgen.org), I'll see about implementing them.
          >
          > Cheers,
          >
          > On 8/1/2013 10:08 AM, jimwschuler wrote:
          > > I was trying to figure out why none of the character sheets was showing the Perform skill for 3.5 characters.
          >
          > Then I looked at 6.00.1 and the latest build data and found that Perform (Untrained) does not exist
          > in rsrd_skills.lst.
          > >
          > > I'd also like to suggest the use of PRExxx with the USEUNTRAINED tag.
          >
          > When dealing with craft and perform, where USEUNTRAINED is used as a hack to prevent multiple
          > subskills from displaying,
          >
          > a PRExxx tag could be used to display those that differ from the (Untrained) versions
          >
          > (such as when a masterwork tool is available).
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > ------------------------------------
          > >
          > > Related Lists
          > > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
          > > PCGen's Mailing Lists and Links: http://wiki.pcgen.org/Mailing_Lists_and_PCGen_Links
          > > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
          > > PCGen's JIRA Tracker: http://jira.pcgen.org
          > >
          > >
          > > PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
          > > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
          > >
          > > PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
          > > (for new official data source development)
          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
        • Andrew
          Like I said, I can something like that now, without the code change. Just put up a JIRA cause when I m at work, remembering things people request without
          Message 4 of 4 , Aug 1, 2013
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            Like I said, I can something like that now, without the code change. Just put up a JIRA cause when
            I'm at work, remembering things people request without becomes well, difficult. (60+ hours every
            week tends to do that).

            I'll tackle it tomorrow after my lengthy nap.

            On 8/1/2013 8:54 PM, jimwschuler wrote:
            > I assumed that it did exist at one point, as a search for Perform (Untrained) in the lst help section hit some old results. But, maybe that was for a different dataset than 3.5.
            >
            > I know that PRExxx won't work on USEUNTRAINED. I'm sorry if I wasn't clearer. I was suggesting that be changed. You could then have something like
            >
            > USEUNTRAINED:NO|PREVAREQ:PerformStringDifference,0 USEUNTRAINED:YES|!PREVAREQ:PerformStringDifference,0 DEFINE:PerformStringDifference|skillinfo("MODIFIER", "Perform (String)")-skillinfo("MODIFIER", "Perform (Untrained)")
            >
            > Then the skill would show up on the output sheets if the skill bonus diverged from the general bonus given to the rest of the untrained skills of that category.
            >
            > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Andrew <drew0500@...> wrote:
            >>
            >> Hi Jim,
            >>
            >> You were wondering why they weren't showing Perform? I don't think there has ever been a Perform
            >> (Untrained) in the repo, Craft (Untrained) yes.
            >>
            >> PRExxx won't work on a USEUNTRAINED tag. I can put a Perform (Untrained) if that is a request, easy
            >> to do.
            >>
            >> There is a temp modifier already in place that will modify the skills. The powers that be decided to
            >> give the base +0 modifier figuring people would assume to use the proper tools. (And prevent a lot
            >> of "This is a bug" reports).
            >>
            >> I'm gathering this is two feature requests then:
            >> 1) Create a Untrained version of Perform
            >> 2) Allow bonuses to display the various categories of Craft and, Perform to allow the tools that
            >> modify them to display those new changes.
            >>
            >> If you make those requests in JIRA (jira.pcgen.org), I'll see about implementing them.
            >>
            >> Cheers,
            >>
            >> On 8/1/2013 10:08 AM, jimwschuler wrote:
            >>> I was trying to figure out why none of the character sheets was showing the Perform skill for 3.5 characters.
            >>
            >> Then I looked at 6.00.1 and the latest build data and found that Perform (Untrained) does not exist
            >> in rsrd_skills.lst.
            >>>
            >>> I'd also like to suggest the use of PRExxx with the USEUNTRAINED tag.
            >>
            >> When dealing with craft and perform, where USEUNTRAINED is used as a hack to prevent multiple
            >> subskills from displaying,
            >>
            >> a PRExxx tag could be used to display those that differ from the (Untrained) versions
            >>
            >> (such as when a masterwork tool is available).
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>> ------------------------------------
            >>>
            >>> Related Lists
            >>> PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
            >>> PCGen's Mailing Lists and Links: http://wiki.pcgen.org/Mailing_Lists_and_PCGen_Links
            >>> PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
            >>> PCGen's JIRA Tracker: http://jira.pcgen.org
            >>>
            >>>
            >>> PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
            >>> (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
            >>>
            >>> PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
            >>> (for new official data source development)
            >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > Related Lists
            > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
            > PCGen's Mailing Lists and Links: http://wiki.pcgen.org/Mailing_Lists_and_PCGen_Links
            > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
            > PCGen's JIRA Tracker: http://jira.pcgen.org
            >
            >
            > PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
            > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
            >
            > PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
            > (for new official data source development)
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
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