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Re: [pcgen_experimental] Dragons

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  • Andrew
    So, here is what I m thinking, one race per dragon. Period.Next we make a BaseDragon Class. Then we trigger the specific dragon abilities by DragonLVL. Now,
    Message 1 of 24 , May 22, 2013
      So, here is what I'm thinking, one race per dragon. Period.Next we make a BaseDragon Class. Then we
      trigger the specific dragon abilities by DragonLVL.

      Now, how to handle those pesky casting levels, easier said then done, unless you've done it. I've
      managed to set up the Caster Stuff in Eclipse classless, so it can be done.

      In the classless in order to 'activate' a caster specific class, you have to manually add a class.

      Something like this:
      Initial Sorcerer Magic Level KEY:Initial Sorcerer Magic Level
      SORTKEY:Magic_Level_01_Sorcerer CATEGORY:Special Ability TYPE:MagicLevels.BaseLevel
      DEFINE:SorcererCasterLevel|0 ADD:SPELLCASTER|Sorcerer
      BONUS:CASTERLEVEL|Sorcerer|SorcererCasterLevel
      BONUS:PCLEVEL|Sorcerer|var("SorcererMagicLvls")-1
      BONUS:VAR|SorcererCasterLevel|-var("SorcererMagicLvls")
      BONUS:VAR|SorcererCasterLevel|var("PointBuySorcererCasterLvl")+var("CasterLevelAll")
      COST:0

      We could also look at granting a Subclass to each dragon and use the SPELLLIST:2|Sorcerer|RedDragon
      as an example, if this became necessary.

      I think is feasible, thoughts?

      On 5/22/2013 8:05 PM, Andrew wrote:
      > Hi,
      >
      > So, I was looking at Matt's JIRA about the epic dragons and it got me to thinking... Why are the
      > dragons coded up as a separaterace for each age category along with a class?
      >
      > I was looking at both the RSRD and Pathfinder versions, and I'm wondering why we don't just make the
      > base race, and let the HD set the important things, like Age, powers,etc?
      >
      > Is there something I'm overlooking, or is this a caseof - it's been this way forever and we've never
      > re-evaluated how we did it?
      >


      --
      Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
      Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
      Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
      Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
      Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Doug Limmer
      The first thing that jumps out at me (as to why there were separate races for separate dragon ages) is size changes. I ve had poor success with size changes
      Message 2 of 24 , May 23, 2013
        The first thing that jumps out at me (as to why there were separate
        races for separate dragon ages) is size changes. I've had poor success
        with size changes in the past, but that was for humanoids with
        equipment, and things may be improved now, regardless.

        Are you confident the size increases (including appropriate stat and
        natural attack changes) can be handled with the dragon class?

        DS/DL

        On 5/22/2013 11:29 PM, Andrew wrote:
        >
        > So, here is what I'm thinking, one race per dragon. Period.Next we
        > make a BaseDragon Class. Then we
        > trigger the specific dragon abilities by DragonLVL.
        >
        > Now, how to handle those pesky casting levels, easier said then done,
        > unless you've done it. I've
        > managed to set up the Caster Stuff in Eclipse classless, so it can be
        > done.
        >
        > In the classless in order to 'activate' a caster specific class, you
        > have to manually add a class.
        >
        > Something like this:
        > Initial Sorcerer Magic Level KEY:Initial Sorcerer Magic Level
        > SORTKEY:Magic_Level_01_Sorcerer CATEGORY:Special Ability
        > TYPE:MagicLevels.BaseLevel
        > DEFINE:SorcererCasterLevel|0 ADD:SPELLCASTER|Sorcerer
        > BONUS:CASTERLEVEL|Sorcerer|SorcererCasterLevel
        > BONUS:PCLEVEL|Sorcerer|var("SorcererMagicLvls")-1
        > BONUS:VAR|SorcererCasterLevel|-var("SorcererMagicLvls")
        > BONUS:VAR|SorcererCasterLevel|var("PointBuySorcererCasterLvl")+var("CasterLevelAll")
        >
        > COST:0
        >
        > We could also look at granting a Subclass to each dragon and use the
        > SPELLLIST:2|Sorcerer|RedDragon
        > as an example, if this became necessary.
        >
        > I think is feasible, thoughts?
        >
        >
        >



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Andrew
        Hi, http://wiki.pcgen.org/Dragons_redesigned#Dragons_Introduction I ve begun the proposal and have a sample dragon using the black version. As you can see,
        Message 3 of 24 , May 24, 2013
          Hi,

          http://wiki.pcgen.org/Dragons_redesigned#Dragons_Introduction

          I've begun the proposal and have a sample dragon using the black version.

          As you can see, I've addressed the issue of Size Changes in a nice elegant manner.

          The WIKI is still in progress, but I think the work reflects that this is a possibility.


          On 5/23/2013 7:02 AM, Doug Limmer wrote:
          > The first thing that jumps out at me (as to why there were separate
          > races for separate dragon ages) is size changes. I've had poor success
          > with size changes in the past, but that was for humanoids with
          > equipment, and things may be improved now, regardless.
          >
          > Are you confident the size increases (including appropriate stat and
          > natural attack changes) can be handled with the dragon class?
          >
          > DS/DL
          >
          > On 5/22/2013 11:29 PM, Andrew wrote:
          >> So, here is what I'm thinking, one race per dragon. Period.Next we
          >> make a BaseDragon Class. Then we
          >> trigger the specific dragon abilities by DragonLVL.
          >>
          >> Now, how to handle those pesky casting levels, easier said then done,
          >> unless you've done it. I've
          >> managed to set up the Caster Stuff in Eclipse classless, so it can be
          >> done.
          >>
          >> In the classless in order to 'activate' a caster specific class, you
          >> have to manually add a class.
          >>
          >> Something like this:
          >> Initial Sorcerer Magic Level KEY:Initial Sorcerer Magic Level
          >> SORTKEY:Magic_Level_01_Sorcerer CATEGORY:Special Ability
          >> TYPE:MagicLevels.BaseLevel
          >> DEFINE:SorcererCasterLevel|0 ADD:SPELLCASTER|Sorcerer
          >> BONUS:CASTERLEVEL|Sorcerer|SorcererCasterLevel
          >> BONUS:PCLEVEL|Sorcerer|var("SorcererMagicLvls")-1
          >> BONUS:VAR|SorcererCasterLevel|-var("SorcererMagicLvls")
          >> BONUS:VAR|SorcererCasterLevel|var("PointBuySorcererCasterLvl")+var("CasterLevelAll")
          >>
          >> COST:0
          >>
          >> We could also look at granting a Subclass to each dragon and use the
          >> SPELLLIST:2|Sorcerer|RedDragon
          >> as an example, if this became necessary.
          >>
          >> I think is feasible, thoughts?
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >


          --
          Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
          Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
          Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
          Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
          Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Andrew
          Hi, I have set up a nice working test case. The examples are NOT meant to accurately replicate the actual races, but are meant to represent the concept - the
          Message 4 of 24 , May 28, 2013
            Hi,

            I have set up a nice working test case.

            The examples are NOT meant to accurately replicate the actual races, but are meant to represent the
            concept - the two that are working for samples are BLACK - representing a Sorcerer only spell
            casting, and Blue, representing the Sorcerer + Cleric and Selected Domain Spells.

            How this works:
            You select your race "Blue Dragon" it adds the Base HD (Blue is 6, Black is 4). You can then select a
            kit to apply a Dragon Age Category (This is a single use 'one Kit will work for all' set up).

            The dragon's HD (Class) changes, it's Category will update with HD changes, it's SIZE changes
            (Without any Size Mod affects), it also now has proper REACH and FACE changes as it's size changes.
            (AS an added bonuses, I did set up a method to disable the Size Mods if desire for races and effects
            - mainly homebrew, and it's not used for the dragons, dragons don't have a base size in the race ;) ).

            The Stats automatically change as the Dragon Age changes. - I have a formula in place, but this is
            INCORRECT at this time.

            Each dragon gains the default for all dragons; and then it's own unique abilities. Spellcasting
            works magnificently. CR even increases and decreases. As does the LevelAdjustment for the younger
            dragons that can "Adventure as PCs"

            Fly Speed and Maneuverability change base upon size
            Natural attacks are granted based upon size

            You *CAN* increase or decrease the HD and have it update, HOWEVER, the one thing I can't avoid with
            manually increasing the dragon HD is the Stat increase every 4 levels. The KIT method bypasses the
            STAT gain, but using the UI will not.


            Beyond the dragons, the FACE and REACH are now set automatically for each race based upon size. There
            is a Variable for the Long Race changes. If any race would be "Long", as opposed to "Tall" you place
            this in the RACE - 'DEFINE:LongRace|1' and it alters the Reach accordingly.

            To play with this, check out the PCGen/pcgenadvanced test - dragons set, using the 35e Test gameMode.

            Again, this is meant to be a concept to show it works, not exact replication of any dragon.

            Cheers,



            On 5/24/2013 10:21 PM, Andrew wrote:
            > Hi,
            >
            > http://wiki.pcgen.org/Dragons_redesigned#Dragons_Introduction
            >
            > I've begun the proposal and have a sample dragon using the black version.
            >
            > As you can see, I've addressed the issue of Size Changes in a nice elegant manner.
            >
            > The WIKI is still in progress, but I think the work reflects that this is a possibility.
            >
            >
            > On 5/23/2013 7:02 AM, Doug Limmer wrote:
            >> The first thing that jumps out at me (as to why there were separate
            >> races for separate dragon ages) is size changes. I've had poor success
            >> with size changes in the past, but that was for humanoids with
            >> equipment, and things may be improved now, regardless.
            >>
            >> Are you confident the size increases (including appropriate stat and
            >> natural attack changes) can be handled with the dragon class?
            >>
            >> DS/DL
            >>
            >> On 5/22/2013 11:29 PM, Andrew wrote:
            >>> So, here is what I'm thinking, one race per dragon. Period.Next we
            >>> make a BaseDragon Class. Then we
            >>> trigger the specific dragon abilities by DragonLVL.
            >>>
            >>> Now, how to handle those pesky casting levels, easier said then done,
            >>> unless you've done it. I've
            >>> managed to set up the Caster Stuff in Eclipse classless, so it can be
            >>> done.
            >>>
            >>> In the classless in order to 'activate' a caster specific class, you
            >>> have to manually add a class.
            >>>
            >>> Something like this:
            >>> Initial Sorcerer Magic Level KEY:Initial Sorcerer Magic Level
            >>> SORTKEY:Magic_Level_01_Sorcerer CATEGORY:Special Ability
            >>> TYPE:MagicLevels.BaseLevel
            >>> DEFINE:SorcererCasterLevel|0 ADD:SPELLCASTER|Sorcerer
            >>> BONUS:CASTERLEVEL|Sorcerer|SorcererCasterLevel
            >>> BONUS:PCLEVEL|Sorcerer|var("SorcererMagicLvls")-1
            >>> BONUS:VAR|SorcererCasterLevel|-var("SorcererMagicLvls")
            >>> BONUS:VAR|SorcererCasterLevel|var("PointBuySorcererCasterLvl")+var("CasterLevelAll")
            >>>
            >>> COST:0
            >>>
            >>> We could also look at granting a Subclass to each dragon and use the
            >>> SPELLLIST:2|Sorcerer|RedDragon
            >>> as an example, if this became necessary.
            >>>
            >>> I think is feasible, thoughts?
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >> ------------------------------------
            >>
            >> Yahoo! Groups Links
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>


            --
            Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
            Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
            Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
            Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
            Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Ricky
            Hi Andrew, this kind of build can be simple to tranform from sorcerer, for example, into using psionic subclasses? (i can t look the set at the moment but the
            Message 5 of 24 , May 28, 2013
              Hi Andrew,
              this kind of build can be simple to tranform from sorcerer, for example, into using psionic subclasses?
              (i can't look the set at the moment but the curiosity is impelling)

              Inviato da Yahoo! Mail su Android



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Andrew
              Hi Ricky, If I understand the question, then the answer is yes, the race sets up the spellcasting class with the ADD:SPELLCASTER, the abilities trigger when
              Message 6 of 24 , May 28, 2013
                Hi Ricky,

                If I understand the question, then the answer is yes, the race sets up the spellcasting class with
                the ADD:SPELLCASTER, the abilities trigger when the casting actually takes place through the use of
                BONUS:PCLEVEL - you'll note I have a '-1' to turn off the casting till the dragon reaches the
                correct 'Age'. You could make a psionic caster, a cleric caster or any other caster type you desire.

                If you have a race where they select a class, it's a simple matter of using an abilitypool to grant
                the selection and have the ADD:SPELLCASTER in the ability chosen. The trick to the ADD is it MUST be
                in either a Class, Race or invoked by manually adding an Ability. AUTO granting the ability doesn't
                work IIRC (I may be wrong, but this is what my memory says when I was setting up the Classless set,
                or I was over-thinking a particular problem... *shrug*).

                Cheers,

                On 5/28/2013 9:29 AM, Ricky wrote:
                > Hi Andrew,
                > this kind of build can be simple to tranform from sorcerer, for example, into using psionic subclasses?
                > (i can't look the set at the moment but the curiosity is impelling)
                >
                > Inviato da Yahoo! Mail su Android
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > Related Lists
                > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                > PCGen's Mailing Lists and Links: http://wiki.pcgen.org/Mailing_Lists_and_PCGen_Links
                > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                > PCGen's JIRA Tracker: http://jira.pcgen.org
                >
                >
                > PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                >
                > PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                > (for new official data source development)
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >


                --
                Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
                Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
                Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
                Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
                Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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