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Re: [pcgen] PCGen Board of Directors Meeting, 5/10/2013, 5:00 pm

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  • James Dempsey
    Hi Kar, Is that a preference for having our source in git (e.g. via sourceforge s offering) or GitHub specifically? Cheers, James. On 12/05/2013 9:36 PM
    Message 1 of 16 , May 12, 2013
    • 0 Attachment
      Hi Kar,

      Is that a preference for having our source in git (e.g. via
      sourceforge's offering) or GitHub specifically?

      Cheers,
      James.

      On 12/05/2013 9:36 PM Martijn Verburg wrote
      > I think this would be useful - I infinitely prefer the GitHub model of
      > working these days. Henk, would it be useful if we started a PCGen
      > organisation on GitHub and started a repo there? I know you have your own
      > hosted, but I guess we should have an 'official one' that people can fork
      > from.
      >
      > Cheers,
      > Martijn
      >
      >
      > On 11 May 2013 20:22, Henk Slaaf <henk@...> wrote:
      >
      >> **
      >>
      >>
      >> Hey!
      >>
      >> I was reading through the meeting logs and had some thoughts:
      >>
      >> - [14:40] <@[Chair]Drew> Maybe a prod email to see where they are...
      >> perhaps have an easy code task to get them started if they don't have
      >> anything set in mind.
      >> - [14:40] <@[Chair]Drew> Also, Henk has a nice Github setup for cloning
      >> the SVN, if they want to work on his and offer up patches???
      >>
      >> I'd be happy to go as a go-between for people who want to contribute, but
      >> cannot get SVN to work. I have git-svn set up, so for me it's no problem to
      >> accept pull requests. People could open these on the github site and
      >> explain them. You (other devs) could help audit the pull requests there.
      >> Then I could *git svn dcommit* them.
      >>
      >> I could help other devs to setup git-svn in the mean time. I have the
      >> import here and can ship it to others easily.
      >>
      >> - [14:41] <@[Chair]Drew> not sure if GIT vs. SVN is an issue, but
      >> removing any barriers to new folks is a worthy goal
      >> - [14:41] <James[Code_SB]> Yes I am strating to wonder if that would
      >> make thuings easier - the new sourceforge subversion is really difficult to
      >> get started with
      >> - [14:42] <James[Code_SB]> I'm dissapointed that they did that - it is a
      >> poor outcome fo the migration
      >> - [14:42] <@[Chair]Drew> I must admit, tortoisegit makes using SSH keys
      >> easy, unlike tortoisesvn.
      >> - [14:43] <@[Chair]Drew> I struggled to get the Svn working for me, and
      >> I'm dedicated. It's a nice feature ONCE WORKING, but getting there is a
      >> bucketfull of frustrations
      >>
      >> On Linux/Mac it is actually very easy to set up, if you know how to do it
      >> and/or are willing to use command line. I could write a how-to for command
      >> line if it is needed/wanted.
      >>
      >> - [14:43] <James[Code_SB]> The plan would be to get back to https not
      >> ssh - even github prefers https
      >> - [14:43] <@[Chair]Drew> we can use https, but we lose the code update
      >> notfications
      >> - [14:44] <James[Code_SB]> k, might be time to raise a bug with them -
      >> also to get the old repo locked
      >>
      >> Whatever method we choose, update notifications are easy to do using
      >> Jenkins, provided that Sourceforge has some form of HTTP(s) push
      >> notifications. Otherwise, I could set up the Github mirror to push to our
      >> Jenkins. Then Jenkins can email us.
      >>
      >> Let me know if you need anything :)
      >>
      >> Best,
      >>
      >> Henk
      >>
    • Martijn Verburg
      Hey James, GitHub :-) IMNSHO - Git is a tool you build source control systems from, GitHub (because it has a workflow) is a source control system. I ve been
      Message 2 of 16 , May 12, 2013
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        Hey James,

        GitHub :-)

        IMNSHO - Git is a tool you build source control systems from, GitHub
        (because it has a workflow) is a source control system.

        I've been away for some time, so I'm not sure what's been discussed
        recently, or what other barriers are currently in place. Perhaps if we can
        setup a PCGen GitHub repo as the canonical/release repo, and keep that
        sync'd with SF's SVN (do we have access to the SVN post-commit hook?) with
        a pcgen_dev user then folks can either code on SVN or start migrating to
        GitHub forks as they see fit.

        We're basically doing something similar for this in OpenJDK (a BitBucket
        clone called Betterrev).


        Cheers,
        Martijn


        On 12 May 2013 12:41, James Dempsey <jdempsey@...> wrote:

        > **
        >
        >
        > Hi Kar,
        >
        > Is that a preference for having our source in git (e.g. via
        > sourceforge's offering) or GitHub specifically?
        >
        > Cheers,
        > James.
        >
        > On 12/05/2013 9:36 PM Martijn Verburg wrote
        >
        > > I think this would be useful - I infinitely prefer the GitHub model of
        > > working these days. Henk, would it be useful if we started a PCGen
        > > organisation on GitHub and started a repo there? I know you have your own
        > > hosted, but I guess we should have an 'official one' that people can fork
        > > from.
        > >
        > > Cheers,
        > > Martijn
        > >
        > >
        > > On 11 May 2013 20:22, Henk Slaaf <henk@...> wrote:
        > >
        > >> **
        >
        > >>
        > >>
        > >> Hey!
        > >>
        > >> I was reading through the meeting logs and had some thoughts:
        > >>
        > >> - [14:40] <@[Chair]Drew> Maybe a prod email to see where they are...
        > >> perhaps have an easy code task to get them started if they don't have
        > >> anything set in mind.
        > >> - [14:40] <@[Chair]Drew> Also, Henk has a nice Github setup for cloning
        > >> the SVN, if they want to work on his and offer up patches???
        > >>
        > >> I'd be happy to go as a go-between for people who want to contribute,
        > but
        > >> cannot get SVN to work. I have git-svn set up, so for me it's no
        > problem to
        > >> accept pull requests. People could open these on the github site and
        > >> explain them. You (other devs) could help audit the pull requests there.
        > >> Then I could *git svn dcommit* them.
        > >>
        > >> I could help other devs to setup git-svn in the mean time. I have the
        > >> import here and can ship it to others easily.
        > >>
        > >> - [14:41] <@[Chair]Drew> not sure if GIT vs. SVN is an issue, but
        > >> removing any barriers to new folks is a worthy goal
        > >> - [14:41] <James[Code_SB]> Yes I am strating to wonder if that would
        > >> make thuings easier - the new sourceforge subversion is really
        > difficult to
        > >> get started with
        > >> - [14:42] <James[Code_SB]> I'm dissapointed that they did that - it is a
        > >> poor outcome fo the migration
        > >> - [14:42] <@[Chair]Drew> I must admit, tortoisegit makes using SSH keys
        > >> easy, unlike tortoisesvn.
        > >> - [14:43] <@[Chair]Drew> I struggled to get the Svn working for me, and
        > >> I'm dedicated. It's a nice feature ONCE WORKING, but getting there is a
        > >> bucketfull of frustrations
        > >>
        > >> On Linux/Mac it is actually very easy to set up, if you know how to do
        > it
        > >> and/or are willing to use command line. I could write a how-to for
        > command
        > >> line if it is needed/wanted.
        > >>
        > >> - [14:43] <James[Code_SB]> The plan would be to get back to https not
        > >> ssh - even github prefers https
        > >> - [14:43] <@[Chair]Drew> we can use https, but we lose the code update
        > >> notfications
        > >> - [14:44] <James[Code_SB]> k, might be time to raise a bug with them -
        > >> also to get the old repo locked
        > >>
        > >> Whatever method we choose, update notifications are easy to do using
        > >> Jenkins, provided that Sourceforge has some form of HTTP(s) push
        > >> notifications. Otherwise, I could set up the Github mirror to push to
        > our
        > >> Jenkins. Then Jenkins can email us.
        > >>
        > >> Let me know if you need anything :)
        > >>
        > >> Best,
        > >>
        > >> Henk
        > >>
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Andrew
        Hi, SF has GIT, I don t see a need to further expand into yet another website to support our own software. Unless the SF Git control isn t on par with GITHIB I
        Message 3 of 16 , May 12, 2013
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          Hi,

          SF has GIT, I don't see a need to further expand into yet another website to support our own
          software. Unless the SF Git control isn't on par with GITHIB I think we should keep hosting our own
          software here on SF.

          If there is a way to keep both Sync'd up, then that would be awesome.

          The only issue we had a concern washistory - Tom and our other coders want to maintain the history
          so if we moved to GIT and left SVN behind, they could see everything that happened since we started SVN.

          Henk, Git is handy enough, could you see if there is a way to import the CVS stuff (History) and
          then import the SVN history? (That would make a bunch of monkeys very happy).

          I can make an SF Git right now if need be, as can James (It's a simple option).




          On 5/12/2013 4:48 AM, Martijn Verburg wrote:
          > Hey James,
          >
          > GitHub :-)
          >
          > IMNSHO - Git is a tool you build source control systems from, GitHub
          > (because it has a workflow) is a source control system.
          >
          > I've been away for some time, so I'm not sure what's been discussed
          > recently, or what other barriers are currently in place. Perhaps if we can
          > setup a PCGen GitHub repo as the canonical/release repo, and keep that
          > sync'd with SF's SVN (do we have access to the SVN post-commit hook?) with
          > a pcgen_dev user then folks can either code on SVN or start migrating to
          > GitHub forks as they see fit.
          >
          > We're basically doing something similar for this in OpenJDK (a BitBucket
          > clone called Betterrev).
          >
          >
          > Cheers,
          > Martijn
          >
          >
          > On 12 May 2013 12:41, James Dempsey <jdempsey@...> wrote:
          >
          >> **
          >>
          >>
          >> Hi Kar,
          >>
          >> Is that a preference for having our source in git (e.g. via
          >> sourceforge's offering) or GitHub specifically?
          >>
          >> Cheers,
          >> James.
          >>
          >> On 12/05/2013 9:36 PM Martijn Verburg wrote
          >>
          >>> I think this would be useful - I infinitely prefer the GitHub model of
          >>> working these days. Henk, would it be useful if we started a PCGen
          >>> organisation on GitHub and started a repo there? I know you have your own
          >>> hosted, but I guess we should have an 'official one' that people can fork
          >>> from.
          >>>
          >>> Cheers,
          >>> Martijn
          >>>
          >>>
          >>> On 11 May 2013 20:22, Henk Slaaf <henk@...> wrote:
          >>>
          >>>> **
          >>>> Hey!
          >>>>
          >>>> I was reading through the meeting logs and had some thoughts:
          >>>>
          >>>> - [14:40] <@[Chair]Drew> Maybe a prod email to see where they are...
          >>>> perhaps have an easy code task to get them started if they don't have
          >>>> anything set in mind.
          >>>> - [14:40] <@[Chair]Drew> Also, Henk has a nice Github setup for cloning
          >>>> the SVN, if they want to work on his and offer up patches???
          >>>>
          >>>> I'd be happy to go as a go-between for people who want to contribute,
          >> but
          >>>> cannot get SVN to work. I have git-svn set up, so for me it's no
          >> problem to
          >>>> accept pull requests. People could open these on the github site and
          >>>> explain them. You (other devs) could help audit the pull requests there.
          >>>> Then I could *git svn dcommit* them.
          >>>>
          >>>> I could help other devs to setup git-svn in the mean time. I have the
          >>>> import here and can ship it to others easily.
          >>>>
          >>>> - [14:41] <@[Chair]Drew> not sure if GIT vs. SVN is an issue, but
          >>>> removing any barriers to new folks is a worthy goal
          >>>> - [14:41] <James[Code_SB]> Yes I am strating to wonder if that would
          >>>> make thuings easier - the new sourceforge subversion is really
          >> difficult to
          >>>> get started with
          >>>> - [14:42] <James[Code_SB]> I'm dissapointed that they did that - it is a
          >>>> poor outcome fo the migration
          >>>> - [14:42] <@[Chair]Drew> I must admit, tortoisegit makes using SSH keys
          >>>> easy, unlike tortoisesvn.
          >>>> - [14:43] <@[Chair]Drew> I struggled to get the Svn working for me, and
          >>>> I'm dedicated. It's a nice feature ONCE WORKING, but getting there is a
          >>>> bucketfull of frustrations
          >>>>
          >>>> On Linux/Mac it is actually very easy to set up, if you know how to do
          >> it
          >>>> and/or are willing to use command line. I could write a how-to for
          >> command
          >>>> line if it is needed/wanted.
          >>>>
          >>>> - [14:43] <James[Code_SB]> The plan would be to get back to https not
          >>>> ssh - even github prefers https
          >>>> - [14:43] <@[Chair]Drew> we can use https, but we lose the code update
          >>>> notfications
          >>>> - [14:44] <James[Code_SB]> k, might be time to raise a bug with them -
          >>>> also to get the old repo locked
          >>>>
          >>>> Whatever method we choose, update notifications are easy to do using
          >>>> Jenkins, provided that Sourceforge has some form of HTTP(s) push
          >>>> notifications. Otherwise, I could set up the Github mirror to push to
          >> our
          >>>> Jenkins. Then Jenkins can email us.
          >>>>
          >>>> Let me know if you need anything :)
          >>>>
          >>>> Best,
          >>>>
          >>>> Henk
          >>>>
          >>
          >>
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Related Lists
          > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
          > PCGen's Mailing Lists and Links: http://wiki.pcgen.org/Mailing_Lists_and_PCGen_Links
          > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
          > PCGen's JIRA Tracker: http://jira.pcgen.org
          >
          >
          > PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
          > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
          >
          > PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
          > (for new official data source development)
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Henk Slaaf
          ... It is very easy to convert an account into an organisation. I am certainly willing to do so. Need to find a bit of time, though. What is your github user
          Message 4 of 16 , May 12, 2013
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            > Henk, would it be useful if we started a PCGen
            > organisation on GitHub and started a repo there? I know you have your own
            > hosted, but I guess we should have an 'official one' that people can fork
            > from.
            >
            It is very easy to convert an account into an organisation. I am certainly
            willing to do so. Need to find a bit of time, though.

            What is your github user account? I'll add you as an admin after I convert
            the pcgen account. (I'm glad I claimed it then :))

            Best,

            Henk


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Henk Slaaf
            On Sun, May 12, 2013 at 1:48 PM, Martijn Verburg ... I agree. It is very easy for a non-committer to put up pull-requests. This is (IIRC) not possible with SF.
            Message 5 of 16 , May 12, 2013
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              On Sun, May 12, 2013 at 1:48 PM, Martijn Verburg
              <martijnverburg@...>wrote:

              > **
              >
              >
              > Hey James,
              >
              > GitHub :-)
              >
              > IMNSHO - Git is a tool you build source control systems from, GitHub
              > (because it has a workflow) is a source control system.
              >
              > I've been away for some time, so I'm not sure what's been discussed
              > recently, or what other barriers are currently in place. Perhaps if we can
              > setup a PCGen GitHub repo as the canonical/release repo, and keep that
              > sync'd with SF's SVN (do we have access to the SVN post-commit hook?) with
              > a pcgen_dev user then folks can either code on SVN or start migrating to
              > GitHub forks as they see fit.
              >
              I agree. It is very easy for a non-committer to put up pull-requests. This
              is (IIRC) not possible with SF. This required us to give random people who
              come along commiter access pretty soon if they want to contribute.

              I was suprised how fast you guys added me to the committerlist a few years
              back.



              I don't think we would replace Jira, not Jenkins. There are good
              integration tools for that software. Half the world uses Jira + Github +
              Jenkins.

              Best,

              Henk


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Henk Slaaf
              ... SF has no collaboration options that I know of. The GIT hosting is probably fine, but there are no tools (forking, pull requests, web interface is shoddy).
              Message 6 of 16 , May 12, 2013
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                > SF has GIT, I don't see a need to further expand into yet another website
                > to support our own
                > software. Unless the SF Git control isn't on par with GITHIB I think we
                > should keep hosting our own
                > software here on SF.
                >
                SF has no collaboration options that I know of. The GIT hosting is probably
                fine, but there are no tools (forking, pull requests, web interface is
                shoddy).


                > If there is a way to keep both Sync'd up, then that would be awesome.
                >

                There probably is. One-way sync is
                easy<http://stackoverflow.com/a/11420551/1178372>.
                Two-way depends on SF features. I don't expect much support.


                > The only issue we had a concern was history - Tom and our other coders
                > want to maintain the history
                > so if we moved to GIT and left SVN behind, they could see everything that
                > happened since we started SVN.
                >
                Yeah, that is certainly possible. The current git import goes all the way
                back to 2006. I believe that is when all files were copied to SVN.


                >
                > Henk, Git is handy enough, could you see if there is a way to import the
                > CVS stuff (History) and
                > then import the SVN history? (That would make a bunch of monkeys very
                > happy).
                >
                > CVS? No. I have no CVS experience, no CVS access and no time/motivation.

                Maybe it can be done, but I don't think it is worthwile making the effort.
                If someone else is willing, though?



                Importing SVN trunk is as easy as running *git svn clone* on the SVN remote
                and waiting.

                Then things get a bit more difficult.

                1. Tags are easy.
                2. Branches require a bit of work.
                1. fetching all the branches and grafting them using .git/info/grafts;
                2. running git filter-branch
                [docs<http://thomasrast.ch/git/git-svn-conversion.html>]
                to make things permament;
                3. push everything to the GIT repo and set SVN to read-only;
                4. a bit of work, but easily done if you have a list of branches and
                their first SVN commit ID.
                3. Committer history (SVN usernames vs Github accounts) require a bit of
                organisation
                1. They will remain legible for humans (see current github import);
                2. If you want them to be translated, you need to provide a map;
                3. This map can be done easily only once, because otherwise the tree
                changes after it has been published and pulled by others. It is
                not a real
                big problem though.


                I've experimented with the PCGen repo a couple of times. The bother is that
                I need a running import. I can do all sorts of trickery on the archive if
                it is a simple import. Now I need git svn fetch to work after trickery,
                which is a bother.

                One of the other bigger problems is the sheer volume of the PCGen archive.
                It takes about two days to complete the import. And that is if SF does not
                hang up the SSH connection once in a while.

                I can make an SF Git right now if need be, as can James (It's a simple
                > option).
                >
                Will they convert the archive for us? I believe we have some quirks that
                make it harder to get it right (see above). I wouldn't depend on the import
                tool if they don't let you audit the result first :)

                We can work on an import script that gets everything right, but loses the
                ability to import from SVN further (see above). We can then run test
                imports a couple of times and tweak some more until everything is to our
                wishes. If the script is to our satisfaction, then we could plan a weekend
                and switch then.

                Best,

                Henk


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Andrew
                Hi, My github account is LegacyKing. I made it when I was grabbing the utilities work you did. ;) ... -- Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing) Admin Silverback - PCGen
                Message 7 of 16 , May 12, 2013
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                  Hi,

                  My github account is LegacyKing. I made it when I was grabbing the utilities work you did. ;)

                  On 5/12/2013 1:56 PM, Henk Slaaf wrote:
                  >> Henk, would it be useful if we started a PCGen
                  >> organisation on GitHub and started a repo there? I know you have your own
                  >> hosted, but I guess we should have an 'official one' that people can fork
                  >> from.
                  >>
                  > It is very easy to convert an account into an organisation. I am certainly
                  > willing to do so. Need to find a bit of time, though.
                  >
                  > What is your github user account? I'll add you as an admin after I convert
                  > the pcgen account. (I'm glad I claimed it then :))
                  >
                  > Best,
                  >
                  > Henk
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > Related Lists
                  > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                  > PCGen's Mailing Lists and Links: http://wiki.pcgen.org/Mailing_Lists_and_PCGen_Links
                  > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                  > PCGen's JIRA Tracker: http://jira.pcgen.org
                  >
                  >
                  > PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                  > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                  >
                  > PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                  > (for new official data source development)
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >


                  --
                  Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
                  Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
                  Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
                  Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
                  Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Martijn Verburg
                  Hi Henk, I m karianna on GitHub Cheers, Martijn ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  Message 8 of 16 , May 13, 2013
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                    Hi Henk,

                    I'm karianna on GitHub

                    Cheers,
                    Martijn


                    On 12 May 2013 21:56, Henk Slaaf <henk@...> wrote:

                    > **
                    >
                    >
                    > > Henk, would it be useful if we started a PCGen
                    > > organisation on GitHub and started a repo there? I know you have your own
                    > > hosted, but I guess we should have an 'official one' that people can fork
                    > > from.
                    > >
                    > It is very easy to convert an account into an organisation. I am certainly
                    > willing to do so. Need to find a bit of time, though.
                    >
                    > What is your github user account? I'll add you as an admin after I convert
                    > the pcgen account. (I'm glad I claimed it then :))
                    >
                    >
                    > Best,
                    >
                    > Henk
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Henk Slaaf
                    On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 2:05 PM, Martijn Verburg ... Hey! It seems like Andrew already added you and James. When the time comes, we ll need to have a mapping
                    Message 9 of 16 , May 13, 2013
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                      On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 2:05 PM, Martijn Verburg
                      <martijnverburg@...>wrote:

                      > karianna


                      Hey!

                      It seems like Andrew already added you and James.

                      When the time comes, we'll need to have a mapping of all current committers
                      SF login names to Github login names, if and when we decide to move
                      forwards.

                      Best,

                      Henk


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Stefan Radermacher
                      I ve signed up as Zaister. Regards Stefan
                      Message 10 of 16 , May 18, 2013
                      • 0 Attachment
                        I've signed up as Zaister.

                        Regards
                        Stefan

                        On 13.05.2013 20:22, Henk Slaaf wrote:
                        > On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 2:05 PM, Martijn Verburg
                        > <martijnverburg@...>wrote:
                        >
                        >> karianna
                        >
                        >
                        > Hey!
                        >
                        > It seems like Andrew already added you and James.
                        >
                        > When the time comes, we'll need to have a mapping of all current committers
                        > SF login names to Github login names, if and when we decide to move
                        > forwards.
                        >
                        > Best,
                        >
                        > Henk
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ------------------------------------
                        >
                        > Related Lists
                        > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                        > PCGen's Mailing Lists and Links: http://wiki.pcgen.org/Mailing_Lists_and_PCGen_Links
                        > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                        > PCGen's JIRA Tracker: http://jira.pcgen.org
                        >
                        >
                        > PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                        > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                        >
                        > PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                        > (for new official data source development)
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
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