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Re: Sorcerer spells known wrong in 5.17.16

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  • agnard
    Still happening in latest 6.00. 7 lvl Sorc Casting per day is ok. But known spells only the lvl 0 is right.
    Message 1 of 30 , Jan 5, 2013
      Still happening in latest 6.00.

      7 lvl Sorc
      Casting per day is ok.
      But known spells only the lvl 0 is right.


      --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "tripleduck" wrote:
      >
      > > I believe someone opened a JIRA, I've submitted a fix (If I
      > > remember correctly, please download the latest snapshot to try it
      > > out).
      >
      > The Bloodline spell is still being shown multiple times in the spell list.
      >
      > As well, now it has too many spells available for third level.
      >
      > My character build: Dwarf, Sorcerer 3rd level
      > STR:10 DEX:13 CON:13 INT:13 WIS:15 CHA:14
      >
      > Starsoul Bloodline (APG)
      >
      > 0 level spells: known[5]
      > 1st level spells: Cast[5(+1 for high CHA) = 6], known[3]
      >
      > PCGen correctly notes the cast count per day.
      > Known for 0 level correctly says 5.
      > Known for 1st level says 5, should be 3(+1 for bloodline).
      >
      > (With Starsoul at 3rd level, gained Unseen Servant 1st level spell).
      >
    • Andrew
      Hi, Okay - I m looking at: http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/classes/sorcerer.html#_sorcerer Then I have what is coded up in PCGen: 1 CAST:0,3
      Message 2 of 30 , Jan 5, 2013
        Hi,

        Okay - I'm looking at:
        http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/classes/sorcerer.html#_sorcerer

        Then I have what is coded up in PCGen:
        1 CAST:0,3 KNOWN:4,2
        2 CAST:0,4 KNOWN:5,2
        3 CAST:0,5 KNOWN:5,3
        4 CAST:0,6,3 KNOWN:6,3,1
        5 CAST:0,6,4 KNOWN:6,4,2
        6 CAST:0,6,5,3 KNOWN:7,4,2,1
        7 CAST:0,6,6,4 KNOWN:7,5,3,2
        8 CAST:0,6,6,5,3 KNOWN:8,5,3,2,1
        9 CAST:0,6,6,6,4 KNOWN:8,5,4,3,2
        10 CAST:0,6,6,6,5,3 KNOWN:9,5,4,3,2,1
        11 CAST:0,6,6,6,6,4 KNOWN:9,5,5,4,3,2
        12 CAST:0,6,6,6,6,5,3 KNOWN:9,5,5,4,3,2,1
        13 CAST:0,6,6,6,6,6,4 KNOWN:9,5,5,4,4,3,2
        14 CAST:0,6,6,6,6,6,5,3 KNOWN:9,5,5,4,4,3,2,1
        15 CAST:0,6,6,6,6,6,6,4 KNOWN:9,5,5,4,4,4,3,2
        16 CAST:0,6,6,6,6,6,6,5,3 KNOWN:9,5,5,4,4,4,3,2,1
        17 CAST:0,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,4 KNOWN:9,5,5,4,4,4,3,3,2
        18 CAST:0,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,5,3 KNOWN:9,5,5,4,4,4,3,3,2,1
        19 CAST:0,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,4 KNOWN:9,5,5,4,4,4,3,3,3,2
        20 CAST:0,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6 KNOWN:9,5,5,4,4,4,3,3,3,3

        I made a human sorcerer level 5, and I have known 6, 4, 2. What is off?

        Mind you, I'm using the trunk version which is pre-6.1.1 release, so this may have been fixed or
        already addressed, but it appears to be working and/or already fixed to me.



        On 1/5/2013 4:35 AM, agnard wrote:
        > Still happening in latest 6.00.
        >
        > 7 lvl Sorc
        > Casting per day is ok.
        > But known spells only the lvl 0 is right.
        >
        >
        > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "tripleduck" wrote:
        >>> I believe someone opened a JIRA, I've submitted a fix (If I
        >>> remember correctly, please download the latest snapshot to try it
        >>> out).
        >> The Bloodline spell is still being shown multiple times in the spell list.
        >>
        >> As well, now it has too many spells available for third level.
        >>
        >> My character build: Dwarf, Sorcerer 3rd level
        >> STR:10 DEX:13 CON:13 INT:13 WIS:15 CHA:14
        >>
        >> Starsoul Bloodline (APG)
        >>
        >> 0 level spells: known[5]
        >> 1st level spells: Cast[5(+1 for high CHA) = 6], known[3]
        >>
        >> PCGen correctly notes the cast count per day.
        >> Known for 0 level correctly says 5.
        >> Known for 1st level says 5, should be 3(+1 for bloodline).
        >>
        >> (With Starsoul at 3rd level, gained Unseen Servant 1st level spell).
        >>
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Related Lists
        > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
        > PCGen's Mailing Lists and Links: http://wiki.pcgen.org/Mailing_Lists_and_PCGen_Links
        > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
        > PCGen's JIRA Tracker: http://jira.pcgen.org
        >
        >
        > PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
        > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
        >
        > PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
        > (for new official data source development)
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >

        --
        Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
        Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
        Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
        Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
        Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • David R. Bender
        The CAST & KNOWN tags have always been correct. The issue has been the bloodline spells and how they are handled. Part I: I just downloaded last nights
        Message 3 of 30 , Jan 5, 2013
          The CAST & KNOWN tags have always been correct. The issue has been the
          bloodline spells and how they are handled.

          Part I:
          I just downloaded last nights Autobuild, PCGen v6.01.00-dev.

          I created a 5th level sorcerer, with arcane bloodline. Spells are 6,4,2
          and there should be *Bonus Spells*: /identify
          <http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/spells/identify.html#_identify>/
          (3rd), /invisibility
          <http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/spells/invisibility.html#_invisibility>/
          (5th). They are not in the Known list of the character, nor do they show
          up in Preview or Export sheets.

          Part II:
          Using PCGen v6.00.0, I created the exact same sorcerer as above.Spells
          are 6,5,3 andthe *Bonus Spells*: /identify
          <http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/spells/identify.html#_identify>/
          (3rd), /invisibility
          <http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/spells/invisibility.html#_invisibility>/
          (5th) *are* in the list and show up in Preview and Export sheets. The
          way the bloodline spells are being handled is confusing, but the numbers
          are correct in the end. Identify is a 1st level spell, so the number of
          KNOWN 1st level spells is bumped up 1 (from 4 to 5) at 3rd character
          level and Identify is added, thus allowing the user to tochoose the 4
          1st level spells s/he wants. Same logic for 2nd level spells (at 5th
          character level).

          Conclusion: v6.00.0 is correct. v6.01.00-dev is broken.

          And both show 0,7,5 as the number that can be cast which is correct for
          a 5th level sorcerer with an 18 charisma.

          -- david
          Papa.DRB

          My better half and me (jpg)
          <https://picasaweb.google.com/102726903532570043857/Family#slideshow/5533056948910114610>

          Love Me If You Can by Toby Keith (video)
          <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhcfFekSbHQ&ob=av3e>

          Madness takes its toll - please have exact change.
          For those who believe, no proof is necessary, for those who don't
          believe, no proof is possible. (Stuart Chase 1888-1985)
          On 1/5/2013 8:55 AM, Andrew wrote:
          > Hi,
          >
          > Okay - I'm looking at:
          > http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/classes/sorcerer.html#_sorcerer
          >
          > Then I have what is coded up in PCGen:
          > 1 CAST:0,3 KNOWN:4,2
          > 2 CAST:0,4 KNOWN:5,2
          > 3 CAST:0,5 KNOWN:5,3
          > 4 CAST:0,6,3 KNOWN:6,3,1
          > 5 CAST:0,6,4 KNOWN:6,4,2
          > 6 CAST:0,6,5,3 KNOWN:7,4,2,1
          > 7 CAST:0,6,6,4 KNOWN:7,5,3,2
          > 8 CAST:0,6,6,5,3 KNOWN:8,5,3,2,1
          > 9 CAST:0,6,6,6,4 KNOWN:8,5,4,3,2
          > 10 CAST:0,6,6,6,5,3 KNOWN:9,5,4,3,2,1
          > 11 CAST:0,6,6,6,6,4 KNOWN:9,5,5,4,3,2
          > 12 CAST:0,6,6,6,6,5,3 KNOWN:9,5,5,4,3,2,1
          > 13 CAST:0,6,6,6,6,6,4 KNOWN:9,5,5,4,4,3,2
          > 14 CAST:0,6,6,6,6,6,5,3 KNOWN:9,5,5,4,4,3,2,1
          > 15 CAST:0,6,6,6,6,6,6,4 KNOWN:9,5,5,4,4,4,3,2
          > 16 CAST:0,6,6,6,6,6,6,5,3 KNOWN:9,5,5,4,4,4,3,2,1
          > 17 CAST:0,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,4 KNOWN:9,5,5,4,4,4,3,3,2
          > 18 CAST:0,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,5,3 KNOWN:9,5,5,4,4,4,3,3,2,1
          > 19 CAST:0,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,4 KNOWN:9,5,5,4,4,4,3,3,3,2
          > 20 CAST:0,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6 KNOWN:9,5,5,4,4,4,3,3,3,3
          >
          > I made a human sorcerer level 5, and I have known 6, 4, 2. What is off?
          >
          > Mind you, I'm using the trunk version which is pre-6.1.1 release, so this may have been fixed or
          > already addressed, but it appears to be working and/or already fixed to me.
          >
          >
          >
          > On 1/5/2013 4:35 AM, agnard wrote:
          >> Still happening in latest 6.00.
          >>
          >> 7 lvl Sorc
          >> Casting per day is ok.
          >> But known spells only the lvl 0 is right.
          >>
          >>
          >> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "tripleduck" wrote:
          >>>> I believe someone opened a JIRA, I've submitted a fix (If I
          >>>> remember correctly, please download the latest snapshot to try it
          >>>> out).
          >>> The Bloodline spell is still being shown multiple times in the spell list.
          >>>
          >>> As well, now it has too many spells available for third level.
          >>>
          >>> My character build: Dwarf, Sorcerer 3rd level
          >>> STR:10 DEX:13 CON:13 INT:13 WIS:15 CHA:14
          >>>
          >>> Starsoul Bloodline (APG)
          >>>
          >>> 0 level spells: known[5]
          >>> 1st level spells: Cast[5(+1 for high CHA) = 6], known[3]
          >>>
          >>> PCGen correctly notes the cast count per day.
          >>> Known for 0 level correctly says 5.
          >>> Known for 1st level says 5, should be 3(+1 for bloodline).
          >>>
          >>> (With Starsoul at 3rd level, gained Unseen Servant 1st level spell).
          >>>
          >>
          >> ------------------------------------
          >>
          >> Related Lists
          >> PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
          >> PCGen's Mailing Lists and Links: http://wiki.pcgen.org/Mailing_Lists_and_PCGen_Links
          >> PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
          >> PCGen's JIRA Tracker: http://jira.pcgen.org
          >>
          >>
          >> PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
          >> (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
          >>
          >> PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
          >> (for new official data source development)
          >> Yahoo! Groups Links
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • agnard
          Just downloaded the nightly builds to make sure and the stable release again. With 6.00.0 Stable, Branch Autobuilds (6.00.x) and Development Autobuilds
          Message 4 of 30 , Jan 7, 2013
            Just downloaded the nightly builds to make sure and the stable release again.

            With 6.00.0 Stable, Branch Autobuilds (6.00.x) and Development Autobuilds (6.01.x): all of them failed to give correct know spells for my Human Draconic Sorcerer lvl 7 with 21 CHA.

            The first 2 gave more spells then I should have and the last one just failed to add Bloodline spells.



            --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "David R. Bender" wrote:
            >
            > The CAST & KNOWN tags have always been correct. The issue has been the
            > bloodline spells and how they are handled.
            >
            > Part I:
            > I just downloaded last nights Autobuild, PCGen v6.01.00-dev.
            >
            > I created a 5th level sorcerer, with arcane bloodline. Spells are 6,4,2
            > and there should be *Bonus Spells*: /identify
            > /
            > (3rd), /invisibility
            > /
            > (5th). They are not in the Known list of the character, nor do they show
            > up in Preview or Export sheets.
            >
            > Part II:
            > Using PCGen v6.00.0, I created the exact same sorcerer as above.Spells
            > are 6,5,3 andthe *Bonus Spells*: /identify
            > /
            > (3rd), /invisibility
            > /
            > (5th) *are* in the list and show up in Preview and Export sheets. The
            > way the bloodline spells are being handled is confusing, but the numbers
            > are correct in the end. Identify is a 1st level spell, so the number of
            > KNOWN 1st level spells is bumped up 1 (from 4 to 5) at 3rd character
            > level and Identify is added, thus allowing the user to tochoose the 4
            > 1st level spells s/he wants. Same logic for 2nd level spells (at 5th
            > character level).
            >
            > Conclusion: v6.00.0 is correct. v6.01.00-dev is broken.
            >
            > And both show 0,7,5 as the number that can be cast which is correct for
            > a 5th level sorcerer with an 18 charisma.
            >
            > -- david
            > Papa.DRB
            >
            > My better half and me (jpg)
            >
            >
            > Love Me If You Can by Toby Keith (video)
            >
            >
            > Madness takes its toll - please have exact change.
            > For those who believe, no proof is necessary, for those who don't
            > believe, no proof is possible. (Stuart Chase 1888-1985)
            > On 1/5/2013 8:55 AM, Andrew wrote:
            > > Hi,
            > >
            > > Okay - I'm looking at:
            > > http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/classes/sorcerer.html#_sorcerer
            > >
            > > Then I have what is coded up in PCGen:
            > > 1 CAST:0,3 KNOWN:4,2
            > > 2 CAST:0,4 KNOWN:5,2
            > > 3 CAST:0,5 KNOWN:5,3
            > > 4 CAST:0,6,3 KNOWN:6,3,1
            > > 5 CAST:0,6,4 KNOWN:6,4,2
            > > 6 CAST:0,6,5,3 KNOWN:7,4,2,1
            > > 7 CAST:0,6,6,4 KNOWN:7,5,3,2
            > > 8 CAST:0,6,6,5,3 KNOWN:8,5,3,2,1
            > > 9 CAST:0,6,6,6,4 KNOWN:8,5,4,3,2
            > > 10 CAST:0,6,6,6,5,3 KNOWN:9,5,4,3,2,1
            > > 11 CAST:0,6,6,6,6,4 KNOWN:9,5,5,4,3,2
            > > 12 CAST:0,6,6,6,6,5,3 KNOWN:9,5,5,4,3,2,1
            > > 13 CAST:0,6,6,6,6,6,4 KNOWN:9,5,5,4,4,3,2
            > > 14 CAST:0,6,6,6,6,6,5,3 KNOWN:9,5,5,4,4,3,2,1
            > > 15 CAST:0,6,6,6,6,6,6,4 KNOWN:9,5,5,4,4,4,3,2
            > > 16 CAST:0,6,6,6,6,6,6,5,3 KNOWN:9,5,5,4,4,4,3,2,1
            > > 17 CAST:0,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,4 KNOWN:9,5,5,4,4,4,3,3,2
            > > 18 CAST:0,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,5,3 KNOWN:9,5,5,4,4,4,3,3,2,1
            > > 19 CAST:0,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,4 KNOWN:9,5,5,4,4,4,3,3,3,2
            > > 20 CAST:0,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6 KNOWN:9,5,5,4,4,4,3,3,3,3
            > >
            > > I made a human sorcerer level 5, and I have known 6, 4, 2. What is off?
            > >
            > > Mind you, I'm using the trunk version which is pre-6.1.1 release, so this may have been fixed or
            > > already addressed, but it appears to be working and/or already fixed to me.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > On 1/5/2013 4:35 AM, agnard wrote:
            > >> Still happening in latest 6.00.
            > >>
            > >> 7 lvl Sorc
            > >> Casting per day is ok.
            > >> But known spells only the lvl 0 is right.
            > >>
            > >>
            > >> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "tripleduck" wrote:
            > >>>> I believe someone opened a JIRA, I've submitted a fix (If I
            > >>>> remember correctly, please download the latest snapshot to try it
            > >>>> out).
            > >>> The Bloodline spell is still being shown multiple times in the spell list.
            > >>>
            > >>> As well, now it has too many spells available for third level.
            > >>>
            > >>> My character build: Dwarf, Sorcerer 3rd level
            > >>> STR:10 DEX:13 CON:13 INT:13 WIS:15 CHA:14
            > >>>
            > >>> Starsoul Bloodline (APG)
            > >>>
            > >>> 0 level spells: known[5]
            > >>> 1st level spells: Cast[5(+1 for high CHA) = 6], known[3]
            > >>>
            > >>> PCGen correctly notes the cast count per day.
            > >>> Known for 0 level correctly says 5.
            > >>> Known for 1st level says 5, should be 3(+1 for bloodline).
            > >>>
            > >>> (With Starsoul at 3rd level, gained Unseen Servant 1st level spell).
            > >>>
            > >>
            > >> ------------------------------------
            > >>
            > >> Related Lists
            > >> PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
            > >> PCGen's Mailing Lists and Links: http://wiki.pcgen.org/Mailing_Lists_and_PCGen_Links
            > >> PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
            > >> PCGen's JIRA Tracker: http://jira.pcgen.org
            > >>
            > >>
            > >> PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
            > >> (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
            > >>
            > >> PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
            > >> (for new official data source development)
            > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >>
            > >>
            > >>
            > >>
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • David R. Bender
            Please re-read my post. 6.00.0 *includes* the bloodline spells in the total number so it is correct. I agree, 6.0.1-dev is wrong and does not add the bloodline
            Message 5 of 30 , Jan 7, 2013
              Please re-read my post. 6.00.0 *includes* the bloodline spells in the
              total number so it is correct. I agree, 6.0.1-dev is wrong and does not
              add the bloodline spells in.

              -- david
              Papa.DRB

              My better half and me (jpg)
              <https://picasaweb.google.com/102726903532570043857/Family#slideshow/5533056948910114610>

              Love Me If You Can by Toby Keith (video)
              <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhcfFekSbHQ&ob=av3e>

              Madness takes its toll - please have exact change.
              For those who believe, no proof is necessary, for those who don't
              believe, no proof is possible. (Stuart Chase 1888-1985)
              On 1/7/2013 5:11 AM, agnard wrote:
              > Just downloaded the nightly builds to make sure and the stable release again.
              >
              > With 6.00.0 Stable, Branch Autobuilds (6.00.x) and Development Autobuilds (6.01.x): all of them failed to give correct know spells for my Human Draconic Sorcerer lvl 7 with 21 CHA.
              >
              > The first 2 gave more spells then I should have and the last one just failed to add Bloodline spells.
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "David R. Bender" wrote:
              >> The CAST & KNOWN tags have always been correct. The issue has been the
              >> bloodline spells and how they are handled.
              >>
              >> Part I:
              >> I just downloaded last nights Autobuild, PCGen v6.01.00-dev.
              >>
              >> I created a 5th level sorcerer, with arcane bloodline. Spells are 6,4,2
              >> and there should be *Bonus Spells*: /identify
              >> /
              >> (3rd), /invisibility
              >> /
              >> (5th). They are not in the Known list of the character, nor do they show
              >> up in Preview or Export sheets.
              >>
              >> Part II:
              >> Using PCGen v6.00.0, I created the exact same sorcerer as above.Spells
              >> are 6,5,3 andthe *Bonus Spells*: /identify
              >> /
              >> (3rd), /invisibility
              >> /
              >> (5th) *are* in the list and show up in Preview and Export sheets. The
              >> way the bloodline spells are being handled is confusing, but the numbers
              >> are correct in the end. Identify is a 1st level spell, so the number of
              >> KNOWN 1st level spells is bumped up 1 (from 4 to 5) at 3rd character
              >> level and Identify is added, thus allowing the user to tochoose the 4
              >> 1st level spells s/he wants. Same logic for 2nd level spells (at 5th
              >> character level).
              >>
              >> Conclusion: v6.00.0 is correct. v6.01.00-dev is broken.
              >>
              >> And both show 0,7,5 as the number that can be cast which is correct for
              >> a 5th level sorcerer with an 18 charisma.
            • agnard
              6.00.x would be correct if it showed 7 6 4 3 but I get 7 7 5 4
              Message 6 of 30 , Jan 7, 2013
                6.00.x would be correct if it showed 7 6 4 3 but I get 7 7 5 4


                --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "David R. Bender" wrote:
                >
                > Please re-read my post. 6.00.0 *includes* the bloodline spells in the
                > total number so it is correct. I agree, 6.0.1-dev is wrong and does not
                > add the bloodline spells in.
                >
                > -- david
                > Papa.DRB
                >
                > My better half and me (jpg)
                >
                >
                > Love Me If You Can by Toby Keith (video)
                >
                >
                > Madness takes its toll - please have exact change.
                > For those who believe, no proof is necessary, for those who don't
                > believe, no proof is possible. (Stuart Chase 1888-1985)
                > On 1/7/2013 5:11 AM, agnard wrote:
                > > Just downloaded the nightly builds to make sure and the stable release again.
                > >
                > > With 6.00.0 Stable, Branch Autobuilds (6.00.x) and Development Autobuilds (6.01.x): all of them failed to give correct know spells for my Human Draconic Sorcerer lvl 7 with 21 CHA.
                > >
                > > The first 2 gave more spells then I should have and the last one just failed to add Bloodline spells.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "David R. Bender" wrote:
                > >> The CAST & KNOWN tags have always been correct. The issue has been the
                > >> bloodline spells and how they are handled.
                > >>
                > >> Part I:
                > >> I just downloaded last nights Autobuild, PCGen v6.01.00-dev.
                > >>
                > >> I created a 5th level sorcerer, with arcane bloodline. Spells are 6,4,2
                > >> and there should be *Bonus Spells*: /identify
                > >> /
                > >> (3rd), /invisibility
                > >> /
                > >> (5th). They are not in the Known list of the character, nor do they show
                > >> up in Preview or Export sheets.
                > >>
                > >> Part II:
                > >> Using PCGen v6.00.0, I created the exact same sorcerer as above.Spells
                > >> are 6,5,3 andthe *Bonus Spells*: /identify
                > >> /
                > >> (3rd), /invisibility
                > >> /
                > >> (5th) *are* in the list and show up in Preview and Export sheets. The
                > >> way the bloodline spells are being handled is confusing, but the numbers
                > >> are correct in the end. Identify is a 1st level spell, so the number of
                > >> KNOWN 1st level spells is bumped up 1 (from 4 to 5) at 3rd character
                > >> level and Identify is added, thus allowing the user to tochoose the 4
                > >> 1st level spells s/he wants. Same logic for 2nd level spells (at 5th
                > >> character level).
                > >>
                > >> Conclusion: v6.00.0 is correct. v6.01.00-dev is broken.
                > >>
                > >> And both show 0,7,5 as the number that can be cast which is correct for
                > >> a 5th level sorcerer with an 18 charisma.
                >
              • Eric C Smith
                Hi Folks! Using PCGen 6.0.0, I ve created a barebones Sorcerer, 7th level, Human. I have not selected a sorcerer s bloodline, traits, feats, skills, favored
                Message 7 of 30 , Jan 7, 2013
                  Hi Folks!

                  Using PCGen 6.0.0, I've created a barebones Sorcerer, 7th level, Human.

                  I have not selected a sorcerer's bloodline, traits, feats, skills, favored class, or spells. I have selected the human ability bonus as well as the 4th level ability bonus, both going into Charisma, ending with a final charisma of 21.

                  Per PCGen:
                  Spells Known are 7, 6, 4, 3
                  Spells Cast are -, 8, 7, 5

                  Now I add the Draconic (Black) Bloodline.

                  Per PCGen:
                  Spells Known are 7, 7, 5, 4
                  Spells Cast are -, 8, 7, 5


                  Using PCGen 6.01.01 dev (last nights autobuild), I've created a barebones Sorcerer, 7th level, Human.

                  As above, I have not selected a sorcerer's bloodline, traits, feats, skills, favored class, or spells. I have selected the human ability bonus as well as the 4th level ability bonus, both going into Charisma, ending with a final charisma of 21.

                  Per PCGen:
                  Spells Known are 7, 5, 3, 2
                  Spells Cast are -, 8, 7, 5

                  Now I add the Draconic (Black) Bloodline.

                  Per PCGen:
                  Spells Known are 7, 5, 3, 2
                  Spells Cast are -, 8, 7, 5

                  Not sure whats going on here as my sorcerer no longer gets the Bloodline Spell. Otherwise the good news is that the Spells Known are correct . . . :-)

                  Maredudd

                  P.S. I used the full autobuild file to package the Mac App as I do for the release files.

                  On Jan 7, 2013, at 9:28 AM, agnard wrote:

                  > 6.00.x would be correct if it showed 7 6 4 3 but I get 7 7 5 4
                  >
                  > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "David R. Bender" wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Please re-read my post. 6.00.0 *includes* the bloodline spells in the
                  > > total number so it is correct. I agree, 6.0.1-dev is wrong and does not
                  > > add the bloodline spells in.
                  > >
                  > > -- david
                  > > Papa.DRB
                  > >
                  > > My better half and me (jpg)
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Love Me If You Can by Toby Keith (video)
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Madness takes its toll - please have exact change.
                  > > For those who believe, no proof is necessary, for those who don't
                  > > believe, no proof is possible. (Stuart Chase 1888-1985)
                  > > On 1/7/2013 5:11 AM, agnard wrote:
                  > > > Just downloaded the nightly builds to make sure and the stable release again.
                  > > >
                  > > > With 6.00.0 Stable, Branch Autobuilds (6.00.x) and Development Autobuilds (6.01.x): all of them failed to give correct know spells for my Human Draconic Sorcerer lvl 7 with 21 CHA.
                  > > >
                  > > > The first 2 gave more spells then I should have and the last one just failed to add Bloodline spells.
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "David R. Bender" wrote:
                  > > >> The CAST & KNOWN tags have always been correct. The issue has been the
                  > > >> bloodline spells and how they are handled.
                  > > >>
                  > > >> Part I:
                  > > >> I just downloaded last nights Autobuild, PCGen v6.01.00-dev.
                  > > >>
                  > > >> I created a 5th level sorcerer, with arcane bloodline. Spells are 6,4,2
                  > > >> and there should be *Bonus Spells*: /identify
                  > > >> /
                  > > >> (3rd), /invisibility
                  > > >> /
                  > > >> (5th). They are not in the Known list of the character, nor do they show
                  > > >> up in Preview or Export sheets.
                  > > >>
                  > > >> Part II:
                  > > >> Using PCGen v6.00.0, I created the exact same sorcerer as above.Spells
                  > > >> are 6,5,3 andthe *Bonus Spells*: /identify
                  > > >> /
                  > > >> (3rd), /invisibility
                  > > >> /
                  > > >> (5th) *are* in the list and show up in Preview and Export sheets. The
                  > > >> way the bloodline spells are being handled is confusing, but the numbers
                  > > >> are correct in the end. Identify is a 1st level spell, so the number of
                  > > >> KNOWN 1st level spells is bumped up 1 (from 4 to 5) at 3rd character
                  > > >> level and Identify is added, thus allowing the user to tochoose the 4
                  > > >> 1st level spells s/he wants. Same logic for 2nd level spells (at 5th
                  > > >> character level).
                  > > >>
                  > > >> Conclusion: v6.00.0 is correct. v6.01.00-dev is broken.
                  > > >>
                  > > >> And both show 0,7,5 as the number that can be cast which is correct for
                  > > >> a 5th level sorcerer with an 18 charisma.
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                • David R. Bender
                  You only get to *choose* 7,6,4,3 spells as the bloodline spells are already in your known list. Like I said, the number is confusing, but correct. PCGen added
                  Message 8 of 30 , Jan 7, 2013
                    You only get to *choose* 7,6,4,3 spells as the bloodline spells are
                    already in your known list.

                    Like I said, the number is confusing, but correct. PCGen added 1 to the
                    number known for each bloodline spell, and then added the spell. You can
                    only choose the correct number of spells.

                    -- david
                    Papa.DRB

                    My better half and me (jpg)
                    <https://picasaweb.google.com/102726903532570043857/Family#slideshow/5533056948910114610>

                    Love Me If You Can by Toby Keith (video)
                    <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhcfFekSbHQ&ob=av3e>

                    Madness takes its toll - please have exact change.
                    For those who believe, no proof is necessary, for those who don't
                    believe, no proof is possible. (Stuart Chase 1888-1985)
                    On 1/7/2013 9:28 AM, agnard wrote:
                    > 6.00.x would be correct if it showed 7 6 4 3 but I get 7 7 5 4
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "David R. Bender" wrote:
                    >> Please re-read my post. 6.00.0 *includes* the bloodline spells in the
                    >> total number so it is correct. I agree, 6.0.1-dev is wrong and does not
                    >> add the bloodline spells in.
                    >>
                    >> -- david
                    >> Papa.DRB
                    >>
                    >> My better half and me (jpg)
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> Love Me If You Can by Toby Keith (video)
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> Madness takes its toll - please have exact change.
                    >> For those who believe, no proof is necessary, for those who don't
                    >> believe, no proof is possible. (Stuart Chase 1888-1985)
                    >> On 1/7/2013 5:11 AM, agnard wrote:
                    >>> Just downloaded the nightly builds to make sure and the stable release again.
                    >>>
                    >>> With 6.00.0 Stable, Branch Autobuilds (6.00.x) and Development Autobuilds (6.01.x): all of them failed to give correct know spells for my Human Draconic Sorcerer lvl 7 with 21 CHA.
                    >>>
                    >>> The first 2 gave more spells then I should have and the last one just failed to add Bloodline spells.
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "David R. Bender" wrote:
                    >>>> The CAST & KNOWN tags have always been correct. The issue has been the
                    >>>> bloodline spells and how they are handled.
                    >>>>
                    >>>> Part I:
                    >>>> I just downloaded last nights Autobuild, PCGen v6.01.00-dev.
                    >>>>
                    >>>> I created a 5th level sorcerer, with arcane bloodline. Spells are 6,4,2
                    >>>> and there should be *Bonus Spells*: /identify
                    >>>> /
                    >>>> (3rd), /invisibility
                    >>>> /
                    >>>> (5th). They are not in the Known list of the character, nor do they show
                    >>>> up in Preview or Export sheets.
                    >>>>
                    >>>> Part II:
                    >>>> Using PCGen v6.00.0, I created the exact same sorcerer as above.Spells
                    >>>> are 6,5,3 andthe *Bonus Spells*: /identify
                    >>>> /
                    >>>> (3rd), /invisibility
                    >>>> /
                    >>>> (5th) *are* in the list and show up in Preview and Export sheets. The
                    >>>> way the bloodline spells are being handled is confusing, but the numbers
                    >>>> are correct in the end. Identify is a 1st level spell, so the number of
                    >>>> KNOWN 1st level spells is bumped up 1 (from 4 to 5) at 3rd character
                    >>>> level and Identify is added, thus allowing the user to tochoose the 4
                    >>>> 1st level spells s/he wants. Same logic for 2nd level spells (at 5th
                    >>>> character level).
                    >>>>
                    >>>> Conclusion: v6.00.0 is correct. v6.01.00-dev is broken.
                    >>>>
                    >>>> And both show 0,7,5 as the number that can be cast which is correct for
                    >>>> a 5th level sorcerer with an 18 charisma.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    > Related Lists
                    > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                    > PCGen's Mailing Lists and Links: http://wiki.pcgen.org/Mailing_Lists_and_PCGen_Links
                    > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                    > PCGen's JIRA Tracker: http://jira.pcgen.org
                    >
                    >
                    > PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                    > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                    >
                    > PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                    > (for new official data source development)
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Andrew
                    Hi, might want to get a coder involved and see if we can alter this process so we are seeing off numbers but still getting the spells we need. Also, if the
                    Message 9 of 30 , Jan 7, 2013
                      Hi,

                      might want to get a coder involved and see if we can alter this process so we are seeing off numbers
                      but still getting the spells we need.

                      Also, if the trunk is wrong, I have to ask what got altered?

                      On 1/7/2013 10:56 AM, David R. Bender wrote:
                      > You only get to *choose* 7,6,4,3 spells as the bloodline spells are
                      > already in your known list.
                      >
                      > Like I said, the number is confusing, but correct. PCGen added 1 to the
                      > number known for each bloodline spell, and then added the spell. You can
                      > only choose the correct number of spells.
                      >
                      > -- david
                      > Papa.DRB
                      >
                      > My better half and me (jpg)
                      > <https://picasaweb.google.com/102726903532570043857/Family#slideshow/5533056948910114610>
                      >
                      > Love Me If You Can by Toby Keith (video)
                      > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhcfFekSbHQ&ob=av3e>
                      >
                      > Madness takes its toll - please have exact change.
                      > For those who believe, no proof is necessary, for those who don't
                      > believe, no proof is possible. (Stuart Chase 1888-1985)
                      > On 1/7/2013 9:28 AM, agnard wrote:
                      >> 6.00.x would be correct if it showed 7 6 4 3 but I get 7 7 5 4
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "David R. Bender" wrote:
                      >>> Please re-read my post. 6.00.0 *includes* the bloodline spells in the
                      >>> total number so it is correct. I agree, 6.0.1-dev is wrong and does not
                      >>> add the bloodline spells in.
                      >>>
                      >>> -- david
                      >>> Papa.DRB
                      >>>
                      >>> My better half and me (jpg)
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>> Love Me If You Can by Toby Keith (video)
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>> Madness takes its toll - please have exact change.
                      >>> For those who believe, no proof is necessary, for those who don't
                      >>> believe, no proof is possible. (Stuart Chase 1888-1985)
                      >>> On 1/7/2013 5:11 AM, agnard wrote:
                      >>>> Just downloaded the nightly builds to make sure and the stable release again.
                      >>>>
                      >>>> With 6.00.0 Stable, Branch Autobuilds (6.00.x) and Development Autobuilds (6.01.x): all of them failed to give correct know spells for my Human Draconic Sorcerer lvl 7 with 21 CHA.
                      >>>>
                      >>>> The first 2 gave more spells then I should have and the last one just failed to add Bloodline spells.
                      >>>>
                      >>>>
                      >>>>
                      >>>> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "David R. Bender" wrote:
                      >>>>> The CAST & KNOWN tags have always been correct. The issue has been the
                      >>>>> bloodline spells and how they are handled.
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>> Part I:
                      >>>>> I just downloaded last nights Autobuild, PCGen v6.01.00-dev.
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>> I created a 5th level sorcerer, with arcane bloodline. Spells are 6,4,2
                      >>>>> and there should be *Bonus Spells*: /identify
                      >>>>> /
                      >>>>> (3rd), /invisibility
                      >>>>> /
                      >>>>> (5th). They are not in the Known list of the character, nor do they show
                      >>>>> up in Preview or Export sheets.
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>> Part II:
                      >>>>> Using PCGen v6.00.0, I created the exact same sorcerer as above.Spells
                      >>>>> are 6,5,3 andthe *Bonus Spells*: /identify
                      >>>>> /
                      >>>>> (3rd), /invisibility
                      >>>>> /
                      >>>>> (5th) *are* in the list and show up in Preview and Export sheets. The
                      >>>>> way the bloodline spells are being handled is confusing, but the numbers
                      >>>>> are correct in the end. Identify is a 1st level spell, so the number of
                      >>>>> KNOWN 1st level spells is bumped up 1 (from 4 to 5) at 3rd character
                      >>>>> level and Identify is added, thus allowing the user to tochoose the 4
                      >>>>> 1st level spells s/he wants. Same logic for 2nd level spells (at 5th
                      >>>>> character level).
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>> Conclusion: v6.00.0 is correct. v6.01.00-dev is broken.
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>> And both show 0,7,5 as the number that can be cast which is correct for
                      >>>>> a 5th level sorcerer with an 18 charisma.
                      >>
                      >> ------------------------------------
                      >>
                      >> Related Lists
                      >> PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                      >> PCGen's Mailing Lists and Links: http://wiki.pcgen.org/Mailing_Lists_and_PCGen_Links
                      >> PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                      >> PCGen's JIRA Tracker: http://jira.pcgen.org
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                      >> (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                      >>
                      >> PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                      >> (for new official data source development)
                      >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >
                      > Related Lists
                      > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                      > PCGen's Mailing Lists and Links: http://wiki.pcgen.org/Mailing_Lists_and_PCGen_Links
                      > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                      > PCGen's JIRA Tracker: http://jira.pcgen.org
                      >
                      >
                      > PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                      > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                      >
                      > PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                      > (for new official data source development)
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >

                      --
                      Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
                      Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
                      Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
                      Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
                      Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Maredudd
                      Hi Folks! ... Per the Core Rules, the number of spells known that are chosen by a 7th level Sorcerer are 7, 5, 3, 2. Then you get the Bloodline Spell, which
                      Message 10 of 30 , Jan 7, 2013
                        Hi Folks!

                        David wrote:

                        > You only get to *choose* 7,6,4,3 spells as the bloodline spells are
                        > already in your known list.
                        >
                        Per the Core Rules, the number of spells known that are chosen by a 7th level Sorcerer are 7, 5, 3, 2. Then you get the Bloodline Spell, which would give you a total 7, 6, 4, 3.

                        > Like I said, the number is confusing, but correct. PCGen added 1 to the
                        > number known for each bloodline spell, and then added the spell. You can
                        > only choose the correct number of spells.
                        >
                        > -- david
                        > Papa.DRB
                        >
                        > My better half and me (jpg)
                        > https://picasaweb.google.com/102726903532570043857/Family#slideshow/5533056948910114610>
                        >
                        > Love Me If You Can by Toby Keith (video)
                        > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhcfFekSbHQ&ob=av3e>
                        >
                        > Madness takes its toll - please have exact change.
                        > For those who believe, no proof is necessary, for those who don't
                        > believe, no proof is possible. (Stuart Chase 1888-1985)
                        > On 1/7/2013 9:28 AM, agnard wrote:
                        > > 6.00.x would be correct if it showed 7 6 4 3 but I get 7 7 5 4
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "David R. Bender" wrote:
                        > >> Please re-read my post. 6.00.0 *includes* the bloodline spells in the
                        > >> total number so it is correct. I agree, 6.0.1-dev is wrong and does not
                        > >> add the bloodline spells in.
                        > >>
                        > >> -- david
                        > >> Papa.DRB
                        > >>
                        > >> My better half and me (jpg)
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >> Love Me If You Can by Toby Keith (video)
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >> Madness takes its toll - please have exact change.
                        > >> For those who believe, no proof is necessary, for those who don't
                        > >> believe, no proof is possible. (Stuart Chase 1888-1985)
                        > >> On 1/7/2013 5:11 AM, agnard wrote:
                        > >>> Just downloaded the nightly builds to make sure and the stable release again.
                        > >>>
                        > >>> With 6.00.0 Stable, Branch Autobuilds (6.00.x) and Development Autobuilds (6.01.x): all of them failed to give correct know spells for my Human Draconic Sorcerer lvl 7 with 21 CHA.
                        > >>>
                        > >>> The first 2 gave more spells then I should have and the last one just failed to add Bloodline spells.
                        > >>>
                        > >>>
                        > >>>
                        > >>> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "David R. Bender" wrote:
                        > >>>> The CAST & KNOWN tags have always been correct. The issue has been the
                        > >>>> bloodline spells and how they are handled.
                        > >>>>
                        > >>>> Part I:
                        > >>>> I just downloaded last nights Autobuild, PCGen v6.01.00-dev.
                        > >>>>
                        > >>>> I created a 5th level sorcerer, with arcane bloodline. Spells are 6,4,2
                        > >>>> and there should be *Bonus Spells*: /identify
                        > >>>> /
                        > >>>> (3rd), /invisibility
                        > >>>> /
                        > >>>> (5th). They are not in the Known list of the character, nor do they show
                        > >>>> up in Preview or Export sheets.
                        > >>>>
                        > >>>> Part II:
                        > >>>> Using PCGen v6.00.0, I created the exact same sorcerer as above.Spells
                        > >>>> are 6,5,3 andthe *Bonus Spells*: /identify
                        > >>>> /
                        > >>>> (3rd), /invisibility
                        > >>>> /
                        > >>>> (5th) *are* in the list and show up in Preview and Export sheets. The
                        > >>>> way the bloodline spells are being handled is confusing, but the numbers
                        > >>>> are correct in the end. Identify is a 1st level spell, so the number of
                        > >>>> KNOWN 1st level spells is bumped up 1 (from 4 to 5) at 3rd character
                        > >>>> level and Identify is added, thus allowing the user to tochoose the 4
                        > >>>> 1st level spells s/he wants. Same logic for 2nd level spells (at 5th
                        > >>>> character level).
                        > >>>>
                        > >>>> Conclusion: v6.00.0 is correct. v6.01.00-dev is broken.
                        > >>>>
                        > >>>> And both show 0,7,5 as the number that can be cast which is correct for
                        > >>>> a 5th level sorcerer with an 18 charisma.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > ------------------------------------
                        > >
                        > > Related Lists
                        > > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                        > > PCGen's Mailing Lists and Links: http://wiki.pcgen.org/Mailing_Lists_and_PCGen_Links
                        > > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                        > > PCGen's JIRA Tracker: http://jira.pcgen.org
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                        > > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                        > >
                        > > PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                        > > (for new official data source development)
                        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        >


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Paul
                        Umm I haven t looked at the code or the data. But why isn t this treated like domain spells?
                        Message 11 of 30 , Jan 7, 2013
                          Umm I haven't looked at the code or the data. But why isn't this treated like domain spells?

                          --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "David R. Bender" wrote:
                          >
                          > You only get to *choose* 7,6,4,3 spells as the bloodline spells are
                          > already in your known list.
                          >
                          > Like I said, the number is confusing, but correct. PCGen added 1 to the
                          > number known for each bloodline spell, and then added the spell. You can
                          > only choose the correct number of spells.
                          >
                          > -- david
                          > Papa.DRB
                          >
                          > My better half and me (jpg)
                          >
                          >
                          > Love Me If You Can by Toby Keith (video)
                          >
                          >
                        • UnclePete
                          I agree. The current operation of PCGen 6.0.0 allows you to remove the bloodline spells from your known spell list and replace them. Treating them like domain
                          Message 12 of 30 , Jan 7, 2013
                            I agree.

                            The current operation of PCGen 6.0.0 allows you to remove the bloodline
                            spells from your known spell list and replace them.

                            Treating them like domain spells with a 'lock' and a different colour
                            would be a Very Good Thing.

                            Pete


                            On 01/08/2013 09:07 AM, Paul wrote:
                            >
                            > Umm I haven't looked at the code or the data. But why isn't this
                            > treated like domain spells?
                            >
                            > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com <mailto:pcgen%40yahoogroups.com>, "David
                            > R. Bender" wrote:
                            > >
                            > > You only get to *choose* 7,6,4,3 spells as the bloodline spells are
                            > > already in your known list.
                            > >
                            > > Like I said, the number is confusing, but correct. PCGen added 1 to the
                            > > number known for each bloodline spell, and then added the spell. You
                            > can
                            > > only choose the correct number of spells.
                            > >
                            > > -- david
                            > > Papa.DRB
                            > >
                            > > My better half and me (jpg)
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Love Me If You Can by Toby Keith (video)
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                            >



                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • UnclePete
                            ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            Message 13 of 30 , Jan 7, 2013
                              On 01/08/2013 06:07 AM, Maredudd wrote:
                              >
                              > Hi Folks!
                              >
                              > David wrote:
                              >
                              > > You only get to *choose* 7,6,4,3 spells as the bloodline spells are
                              > > already in your known list.
                              > >
                              > Per the Core Rules, the number of spells known that are chosen by a
                              > 7th level Sorcerer are 7, 5, 3, 2. Then you get the Bloodline Spell,
                              > which would give you a total 7, 6, 4, 3.
                              >
                              > > Like I said, the number is confusing, but correct. PCGen added 1 to the
                              > > number known for each bloodline spell, and then added the spell. You
                              > can
                              > > only choose the correct number of spells.
                              > >
                              > > -- david
                              > > Papa.DRB
                              > >
                              > > My better half and me (jpg)
                              > >
                              > https://picasaweb.google.com/102726903532570043857/Family#slideshow/5533056948910114610>
                              >
                              > >
                              > > Love Me If You Can by Toby Keith (video)
                              > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhcfFekSbHQ&ob=av3e>
                              > >
                              > > Madness takes its toll - please have exact change.
                              > > For those who believe, no proof is necessary, for those who don't
                              > > believe, no proof is possible. (Stuart Chase 1888-1985)
                              > > On 1/7/2013 9:28 AM, agnard wrote:
                              > > > 6.00.x would be correct if it showed 7 6 4 3 but I get 7 7 5 4
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com <mailto:pcgen%40yahoogroups.com>,
                              > "David R. Bender" wrote:
                              > > >> Please re-read my post. 6.00.0 *includes* the bloodline spells in the
                              > > >> total number so it is correct. I agree, 6.0.1-dev is wrong and
                              > does not
                              > > >> add the bloodline spells in.
                              > > >>
                              > > >> -- david
                              > > >> Papa.DRB
                              > > >>
                              > > >> My better half and me (jpg)
                              > > >>
                              > > >>
                              > > >> Love Me If You Can by Toby Keith (video)
                              > > >>
                              > > >>
                              > > >> Madness takes its toll - please have exact change.
                              > > >> For those who believe, no proof is necessary, for those who don't
                              > > >> believe, no proof is possible. (Stuart Chase 1888-1985)
                              > > >> On 1/7/2013 5:11 AM, agnard wrote:
                              > > >>> Just downloaded the nightly builds to make sure and the stable
                              > release again.
                              > > >>>
                              > > >>> With 6.00.0 Stable, Branch Autobuilds (6.00.x) and Development
                              > Autobuilds (6.01.x): all of them failed to give correct know spells
                              > for my Human Draconic Sorcerer lvl 7 with 21 CHA.
                              > > >>>
                              > > >>> The first 2 gave more spells then I should have and the last one
                              > just failed to add Bloodline spells.
                              > > >>>
                              > > >>>
                              > > >>>
                              > > >>> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com <mailto:pcgen%40yahoogroups.com>,
                              > "David R. Bender" wrote:
                              > > >>>> The CAST & KNOWN tags have always been correct. The issue has
                              > been the
                              > > >>>> bloodline spells and how they are handled.
                              > > >>>>
                              > > >>>> Part I:
                              > > >>>> I just downloaded last nights Autobuild, PCGen v6.01.00-dev.
                              > > >>>>
                              > > >>>> I created a 5th level sorcerer, with arcane bloodline. Spells
                              > are 6,4,2
                              > > >>>> and there should be *Bonus Spells*: /identify
                              > > >>>> /
                              > > >>>> (3rd), /invisibility
                              > > >>>> /
                              > > >>>> (5th). They are not in the Known list of the character, nor do
                              > they show
                              > > >>>> up in Preview or Export sheets.
                              > > >>>>
                              > > >>>> Part II:
                              > > >>>> Using PCGen v6.00.0, I created the exact same sorcerer as
                              > above.Spells
                              > > >>>> are 6,5,3 andthe *Bonus Spells*: /identify
                              > > >>>> /
                              > > >>>> (3rd), /invisibility
                              > > >>>> /
                              > > >>>> (5th) *are* in the list and show up in Preview and Export
                              > sheets. The
                              > > >>>> way the bloodline spells are being handled is confusing, but
                              > the numbers
                              > > >>>> are correct in the end. Identify is a 1st level spell, so the
                              > number of
                              > > >>>> KNOWN 1st level spells is bumped up 1 (from 4 to 5) at 3rd
                              > character
                              > > >>>> level and Identify is added, thus allowing the user to tochoose
                              > the 4
                              > > >>>> 1st level spells s/he wants. Same logic for 2nd level spells
                              > (at 5th
                              > > >>>> character level).
                              > > >>>>
                              > > >>>> Conclusion: v6.00.0 is correct. v6.01.00-dev is broken.
                              > > >>>>
                              > > >>>> And both show 0,7,5 as the number that can be cast which is
                              > correct for
                              > > >>>> a 5th level sorcerer with an 18 charisma.
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > ------------------------------------
                              > > >
                              > > > Related Lists
                              > > > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                              > > > PCGen's Mailing Lists and Links:
                              > http://wiki.pcgen.org/Mailing_Lists_and_PCGen_Links
                              > > > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                              > > > PCGen's JIRA Tracker: http://jira.pcgen.org
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > PCGen List File Help:
                              > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                              > > > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                              > > >
                              > > > PCGen Experimental:
                              > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                              > > > (for new official data source development)
                              > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              >



                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • UnclePete
                              Evening, All I ve been following this with some interest. I agree that PCGen is doing the right thing with base sorcerers, but there seems to be a problem
                              Message 14 of 30 , Jan 7, 2013
                                Evening, All

                                I've been following this with some interest.

                                I agree that PCGen is doing the right thing with 'base' sorcerers, but
                                there seems to be a problem when you have high-charisma sorcerers, like
                                the 7th level 21 Charisma example provided in many of these posts.

                                My reading of the Pathfinder rules is that a 7th level sorcerer should
                                have known spells of 7, 5, 3, 2 and the bloodline spells will increase
                                that to 7, 6, 4, 3. So far, so good.

                                However, the 21 Charisma (+5 bonus) gives the sorcerer bonus known
                                spells of 0, 2, 1, 1 (Table 1-3 p17) for a grand total of 7, 8, 5, 4.
                                PCGen is showing 7, 7, 5, 4.

                                Eric's example below shows this behaviour, and my tests reproduce it
                                (PCGen 6.0.0 on linux with SUracle Java 6 - Core rulebook and Bestiary
                                only loaded).

                                Pete

                                PS - PCGen rocks! Keep up the good work, everyone.



                                On 01/08/2013 02:39 AM, Eric C Smith wrote:
                                > Hi Folks!
                                >
                                > Using PCGen 6.0.0, I've created a barebones Sorcerer, 7th level, Human.
                                >
                                > I have not selected a sorcerer's bloodline, traits, feats, skills, favored class, or spells. I have selected the human ability bonus as well as the 4th level ability bonus, both going into Charisma, ending with a final charisma of 21.
                                >
                                > Per PCGen:
                                > Spells Known are 7, 6, 4, 3
                                > Spells Cast are -, 8, 7, 5
                                >
                                > Now I add the Draconic (Black) Bloodline.
                                >
                                > Per PCGen:
                                > Spells Known are 7, 7, 5, 4
                                > Spells Cast are -, 8, 7, 5
                                >
                                >
                                > Using PCGen 6.01.01 dev (last nights autobuild), I've created a barebones Sorcerer, 7th level, Human.
                                >
                                > As above, I have not selected a sorcerer's bloodline, traits, feats, skills, favored class, or spells. I have selected the human ability bonus as well as the 4th level ability bonus, both going into Charisma, ending with a final charisma of 21.
                                >
                                > Per PCGen:
                                > Spells Known are 7, 5, 3, 2
                                > Spells Cast are -, 8, 7, 5
                                >
                                > Now I add the Draconic (Black) Bloodline.
                                >
                                > Per PCGen:
                                > Spells Known are 7, 5, 3, 2
                                > Spells Cast are -, 8, 7, 5
                                >
                                > Not sure whats going on here as my sorcerer no longer gets the Bloodline Spell. Otherwise the good news is that the Spells Known are correct . . . :-)
                                >
                                > Maredudd
                                >
                                > P.S. I used the full autobuild file to package the Mac App as I do for the release files.
                                >
                                > On Jan 7, 2013, at 9:28 AM, agnard wrote:
                                >
                                >> 6.00.x would be correct if it showed 7 6 4 3 but I get 7 7 5 4
                                >>
                                >> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "David R. Bender" wrote:
                                >>> Please re-read my post. 6.00.0 *includes* the bloodline spells in the
                                >>> total number so it is correct. I agree, 6.0.1-dev is wrong and does not
                                >>> add the bloodline spells in.
                                >>>
                                >>> -- david
                                >>> Papa.DRB
                                >>>
                                >>> My better half and me (jpg)
                                >>>
                                >>>
                                >>> Love Me If You Can by Toby Keith (video)
                                >>>
                                >>>
                                >>> Madness takes its toll - please have exact change.
                                >>> For those who believe, no proof is necessary, for those who don't
                                >>> believe, no proof is possible. (Stuart Chase 1888-1985)
                                >>> On 1/7/2013 5:11 AM, agnard wrote:
                                >>>> Just downloaded the nightly builds to make sure and the stable release again.
                                >>>>
                                >>>> With 6.00.0 Stable, Branch Autobuilds (6.00.x) and Development Autobuilds (6.01.x): all of them failed to give correct know spells for my Human Draconic Sorcerer lvl 7 with 21 CHA.
                                >>>>
                                >>>> The first 2 gave more spells then I should have and the last one just failed to add Bloodline spells.
                                >>>>
                                >>>>
                                >>>>
                                >>>> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "David R. Bender" wrote:
                                >>>>> The CAST & KNOWN tags have always been correct. The issue has been the
                                >>>>> bloodline spells and how they are handled.
                                >>>>>
                                >>>>> Part I:
                                >>>>> I just downloaded last nights Autobuild, PCGen v6.01.00-dev.
                                >>>>>
                                >>>>> I created a 5th level sorcerer, with arcane bloodline. Spells are 6,4,2
                                >>>>> and there should be *Bonus Spells*: /identify
                                >>>>> /
                                >>>>> (3rd), /invisibility
                                >>>>> /
                                >>>>> (5th). They are not in the Known list of the character, nor do they show
                                >>>>> up in Preview or Export sheets.
                                >>>>>
                                >>>>> Part II:
                                >>>>> Using PCGen v6.00.0, I created the exact same sorcerer as above.Spells
                                >>>>> are 6,5,3 andthe *Bonus Spells*: /identify
                                >>>>> /
                                >>>>> (3rd), /invisibility
                                >>>>> /
                                >>>>> (5th) *are* in the list and show up in Preview and Export sheets. The
                                >>>>> way the bloodline spells are being handled is confusing, but the numbers
                                >>>>> are correct in the end. Identify is a 1st level spell, so the number of
                                >>>>> KNOWN 1st level spells is bumped up 1 (from 4 to 5) at 3rd character
                                >>>>> level and Identify is added, thus allowing the user to tochoose the 4
                                >>>>> 1st level spells s/he wants. Same logic for 2nd level spells (at 5th
                                >>>>> character level).
                                >>>>>
                                >>>>> Conclusion: v6.00.0 is correct. v6.01.00-dev is broken.
                                >>>>>
                                >>>>> And both show 0,7,5 as the number that can be cast which is correct for
                                >>>>> a 5th level sorcerer with an 18 charisma.
                                >>
                                >
                                >
                                > ------------------------------------
                                >
                                > Related Lists
                                > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                                > PCGen's Mailing Lists and Links: http://wiki.pcgen.org/Mailing_Lists_and_PCGen_Links
                                > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                                > PCGen's JIRA Tracker: http://jira.pcgen.org
                                >
                                >
                                > PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                                > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                                >
                                > PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                                > (for new official data source development)
                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                              • David R. Bender
                                High Charisma counts towards spells CAST only, not spells KNOWN. Per the PRD: (Unlike spells per day, the number of spells a sorcerer knows is not affected by
                                Message 15 of 30 , Jan 7, 2013
                                  High Charisma counts towards spells CAST only, not spells KNOWN.

                                  Per the PRD: (Unlike spells per day, the number of spells a sorcerer
                                  knows is not affected by her Charisma
                                  <http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/gettingStarted.html#_charisma-new>
                                  score; the numbers on Table: Sorcerer Spells Known are fixed.)

                                  -- david
                                  Papa.DRB

                                  My better half and me (jpg)
                                  <https://picasaweb.google.com/102726903532570043857/Family#slideshow/5533056948910114610>

                                  Love Me If You Can by Toby Keith (video)
                                  <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhcfFekSbHQ&ob=av3e>

                                  Madness takes its toll - please have exact change.
                                  For those who believe, no proof is necessary, for those who don't
                                  believe, no proof is possible. (Stuart Chase 1888-1985)
                                  On 1/7/2013 6:48 PM, UnclePete wrote:
                                  > Evening, All
                                  >
                                  > I've been following this with some interest.
                                  >
                                  > I agree that PCGen is doing the right thing with 'base' sorcerers, but
                                  > there seems to be a problem when you have high-charisma sorcerers, like
                                  > the 7th level 21 Charisma example provided in many of these posts.
                                  >
                                  > My reading of the Pathfinder rules is that a 7th level sorcerer should
                                  > have known spells of 7, 5, 3, 2 and the bloodline spells will increase
                                  > that to 7, 6, 4, 3. So far, so good.
                                  >
                                  > However, the 21 Charisma (+5 bonus) gives the sorcerer bonus known
                                  > spells of 0, 2, 1, 1 (Table 1-3 p17) for a grand total of 7, 8, 5, 4.
                                  > PCGen is showing 7, 7, 5, 4.
                                  >
                                  > Eric's example below shows this behaviour, and my tests reproduce it
                                  > (PCGen 6.0.0 on linux with SUracle Java 6 - Core rulebook and Bestiary
                                  > only loaded).
                                  >
                                  > Pete
                                  >
                                  > PS - PCGen rocks! Keep up the good work, everyone.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > On 01/08/2013 02:39 AM, Eric C Smith wrote:
                                  >> Hi Folks!
                                  >>
                                  >> Using PCGen 6.0.0, I've created a barebones Sorcerer, 7th level, Human.
                                  >>
                                  >> I have not selected a sorcerer's bloodline, traits, feats, skills, favored class, or spells. I have selected the human ability bonus as well as the 4th level ability bonus, both going into Charisma, ending with a final charisma of 21.
                                  >>
                                  >> Per PCGen:
                                  >> Spells Known are 7, 6, 4, 3
                                  >> Spells Cast are -, 8, 7, 5
                                  >>
                                  >> Now I add the Draconic (Black) Bloodline.
                                  >>
                                  >> Per PCGen:
                                  >> Spells Known are 7, 7, 5, 4
                                  >> Spells Cast are -, 8, 7, 5
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >> Using PCGen 6.01.01 dev (last nights autobuild), I've created a barebones Sorcerer, 7th level, Human.
                                  >>
                                  >> As above, I have not selected a sorcerer's bloodline, traits, feats, skills, favored class, or spells. I have selected the human ability bonus as well as the 4th level ability bonus, both going into Charisma, ending with a final charisma of 21.
                                  >>
                                  >> Per PCGen:
                                  >> Spells Known are 7, 5, 3, 2
                                  >> Spells Cast are -, 8, 7, 5
                                  >>
                                  >> Now I add the Draconic (Black) Bloodline.
                                  >>
                                  >> Per PCGen:
                                  >> Spells Known are 7, 5, 3, 2
                                  >> Spells Cast are -, 8, 7, 5
                                  >>
                                  >> Not sure whats going on here as my sorcerer no longer gets the Bloodline Spell. Otherwise the good news is that the Spells Known are correct . . . :-)
                                  >>
                                  >> Maredudd
                                  >>
                                  >> P.S. I used the full autobuild file to package the Mac App as I do for the release files.
                                  >>
                                  >> On Jan 7, 2013, at 9:28 AM, agnard wrote:
                                  >>
                                  >>> 6.00.x would be correct if it showed 7 6 4 3 but I get 7 7 5 4
                                  >>>
                                  >>> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "David R. Bender" wrote:
                                  >>>> Please re-read my post. 6.00.0 *includes* the bloodline spells in the
                                  >>>> total number so it is correct. I agree, 6.0.1-dev is wrong and does not
                                  >>>> add the bloodline spells in.
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>> -- david
                                  >>>> Papa.DRB
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>> My better half and me (jpg)
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>> Love Me If You Can by Toby Keith (video)
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>> Madness takes its toll - please have exact change.
                                  >>>> For those who believe, no proof is necessary, for those who don't
                                  >>>> believe, no proof is possible. (Stuart Chase 1888-1985)
                                  >>>> On 1/7/2013 5:11 AM, agnard wrote:
                                  >>>>> Just downloaded the nightly builds to make sure and the stable release again.
                                  >>>>>
                                  >>>>> With 6.00.0 Stable, Branch Autobuilds (6.00.x) and Development Autobuilds (6.01.x): all of them failed to give correct know spells for my Human Draconic Sorcerer lvl 7 with 21 CHA.
                                  >>>>>
                                  >>>>> The first 2 gave more spells then I should have and the last one just failed to add Bloodline spells.
                                  >>>>>
                                  >>>>>
                                  >>>>>
                                  >>>>> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "David R. Bender" wrote:
                                  >>>>>> The CAST & KNOWN tags have always been correct. The issue has been the
                                  >>>>>> bloodline spells and how they are handled.
                                  >>>>>>
                                  >>>>>> Part I:
                                  >>>>>> I just downloaded last nights Autobuild, PCGen v6.01.00-dev.
                                  >>>>>>
                                  >>>>>> I created a 5th level sorcerer, with arcane bloodline. Spells are 6,4,2
                                  >>>>>> and there should be *Bonus Spells*: /identify
                                  >>>>>> /
                                  >>>>>> (3rd), /invisibility
                                  >>>>>> /
                                  >>>>>> (5th). They are not in the Known list of the character, nor do they show
                                  >>>>>> up in Preview or Export sheets.
                                  >>>>>>
                                  >>>>>> Part II:
                                  >>>>>> Using PCGen v6.00.0, I created the exact same sorcerer as above.Spells
                                  >>>>>> are 6,5,3 andthe *Bonus Spells*: /identify
                                  >>>>>> /
                                  >>>>>> (3rd), /invisibility
                                  >>>>>> /
                                  >>>>>> (5th) *are* in the list and show up in Preview and Export sheets. The
                                  >>>>>> way the bloodline spells are being handled is confusing, but the numbers
                                  >>>>>> are correct in the end. Identify is a 1st level spell, so the number of
                                  >>>>>> KNOWN 1st level spells is bumped up 1 (from 4 to 5) at 3rd character
                                  >>>>>> level and Identify is added, thus allowing the user to tochoose the 4
                                  >>>>>> 1st level spells s/he wants. Same logic for 2nd level spells (at 5th
                                  >>>>>> character level).
                                  >>>>>>
                                  >>>>>> Conclusion: v6.00.0 is correct. v6.01.00-dev is broken.
                                  >>>>>>
                                  >>>>>> And both show 0,7,5 as the number that can be cast which is correct for
                                  >>>>>> a 5th level sorcerer with an 18 charisma.
                                  >>
                                  >> ------------------------------------
                                  >>
                                  >> Related Lists
                                  >> PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                                  >> PCGen's Mailing Lists and Links: http://wiki.pcgen.org/Mailing_Lists_and_PCGen_Links
                                  >> PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                                  >> PCGen's JIRA Tracker: http://jira.pcgen.org
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >> PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                                  >> (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                                  >>
                                  >> PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                                  >> (for new official data source development)
                                  >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ------------------------------------
                                  >
                                  > Related Lists
                                  > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                                  > PCGen's Mailing Lists and Links: http://wiki.pcgen.org/Mailing_Lists_and_PCGen_Links
                                  > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                                  > PCGen's JIRA Tracker: http://jira.pcgen.org
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                                  > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                                  >
                                  > PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                                  > (for new official data source development)
                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                • Eric C Smith
                                  Hi Folks! ... As David says, the stat bonus is on CAST spells, not KNOWN spells. We do have a preference setting that will add spells to the known list per the
                                  Message 16 of 30 , Jan 7, 2013
                                    Hi Folks!

                                    Pete wrote:
                                    > I've been following this with some interest.
                                    >
                                    > I agree that PCGen is doing the right thing with 'base' sorcerers, but
                                    > there seems to be a problem when you have high-charisma sorcerers, like
                                    > the 7th level 21 Charisma example provided in many of these posts.
                                    >
                                    > My reading of the Pathfinder rules is that a 7th level sorcerer should
                                    > have known spells of 7, 5, 3, 2 and the bloodline spells will increase
                                    > that to 7, 6, 4, 3. So far, so good.
                                    >
                                    > However, the 21 Charisma (+5 bonus) gives the sorcerer bonus known
                                    > spells of 0, 2, 1, 1 (Table 1-3 p17) for a grand total of 7, 8, 5, 4.
                                    > PCGen is showing 7, 7, 5, 4.


                                    As David says, the stat bonus is on CAST spells, not KNOWN spells.

                                    We do have a preference setting that will add spells to the known list per the stat bonus though.


                                    > Eric's example below shows this behaviour, and my tests reproduce it
                                    > (PCGen 6.0.0 on linux with SUracle Java 6 - Core rulebook and Bestiary
                                    > only loaded).


                                    And before anyone suggests that my example is given with stat bonus to known spells, I specifically checked that, several times, like 4 times, or more, before I made my post. :-)

                                    >
                                    > Pete
                                    >
                                    > PS - PCGen rocks! Keep up the good work, everyone.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > On 01/08/2013 02:39 AM, Eric C Smith wrote:
                                    >> Hi Folks!
                                    >>
                                    >> Using PCGen 6.0.0, I've created a barebones Sorcerer, 7th level, Human.
                                    >>
                                    >> I have not selected a sorcerer's bloodline, traits, feats, skills, favored class, or spells. I have selected the human ability bonus as well as the 4th level ability bonus, both going into Charisma, ending with a final charisma of 21.
                                    >>
                                    >> Per PCGen:
                                    >> Spells Known are 7, 6, 4, 3
                                    >> Spells Cast are -, 8, 7, 5
                                    >>
                                    >> Now I add the Draconic (Black) Bloodline.
                                    >>
                                    >> Per PCGen:
                                    >> Spells Known are 7, 7, 5, 4
                                    >> Spells Cast are -, 8, 7, 5
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >> Using PCGen 6.01.01 dev (last nights autobuild), I've created a barebones Sorcerer, 7th level, Human.
                                    >>
                                    >> As above, I have not selected a sorcerer's bloodline, traits, feats, skills, favored class, or spells. I have selected the human ability bonus as well as the 4th level ability bonus, both going into Charisma, ending with a final charisma of 21.
                                    >>
                                    >> Per PCGen:
                                    >> Spells Known are 7, 5, 3, 2
                                    >> Spells Cast are -, 8, 7, 5
                                    >>
                                    >> Now I add the Draconic (Black) Bloodline.
                                    >>
                                    >> Per PCGen:
                                    >> Spells Known are 7, 5, 3, 2
                                    >> Spells Cast are -, 8, 7, 5
                                    >>
                                    >> Not sure whats going on here as my sorcerer no longer gets the Bloodline Spell. Otherwise the good news is that the Spells Known are correct . . . :-)
                                    >>
                                    >> Maredudd
                                    >>
                                    >> P.S. I used the full autobuild file to package the Mac App as I do for the release files.
                                    >>
                                    >> On Jan 7, 2013, at 9:28 AM, agnard wrote:
                                    >>
                                    >>> 6.00.x would be correct if it showed 7 6 4 3 but I get 7 7 5 4
                                    >>>
                                    >>> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "David R. Bender" wrote:
                                    >>>> Please re-read my post. 6.00.0 *includes* the bloodline spells in the
                                    >>>> total number so it is correct. I agree, 6.0.1-dev is wrong and does not
                                    >>>> add the bloodline spells in.
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>> -- david
                                    >>>> Papa.DRB
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>> My better half and me (jpg)
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>> Love Me If You Can by Toby Keith (video)
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>> Madness takes its toll - please have exact change.
                                    >>>> For those who believe, no proof is necessary, for those who don't
                                    >>>> believe, no proof is possible. (Stuart Chase 1888-1985)
                                    >>>> On 1/7/2013 5:11 AM, agnard wrote:
                                    >>>>> Just downloaded the nightly builds to make sure and the stable release again.
                                    >>>>>
                                    >>>>> With 6.00.0 Stable, Branch Autobuilds (6.00.x) and Development Autobuilds (6.01.x): all of them failed to give correct know spells for my Human Draconic Sorcerer lvl 7 with 21 CHA.
                                    >>>>>
                                    >>>>> The first 2 gave more spells then I should have and the last one just failed to add Bloodline spells.
                                    >>>>>
                                    >>>>>
                                    >>>>>
                                    >>>>> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "David R. Bender" wrote:
                                    >>>>>> The CAST & KNOWN tags have always been correct. The issue has been the
                                    >>>>>> bloodline spells and how they are handled.
                                    >>>>>>
                                    >>>>>> Part I:
                                    >>>>>> I just downloaded last nights Autobuild, PCGen v6.01.00-dev.
                                    >>>>>>
                                    >>>>>> I created a 5th level sorcerer, with arcane bloodline. Spells are 6,4,2
                                    >>>>>> and there should be *Bonus Spells*: /identify
                                    >>>>>> /
                                    >>>>>> (3rd), /invisibility
                                    >>>>>> /
                                    >>>>>> (5th). They are not in the Known list of the character, nor do they show
                                    >>>>>> up in Preview or Export sheets.
                                    >>>>>>
                                    >>>>>> Part II:
                                    >>>>>> Using PCGen v6.00.0, I created the exact same sorcerer as above.Spells
                                    >>>>>> are 6,5,3 andthe *Bonus Spells*: /identify
                                    >>>>>> /
                                    >>>>>> (3rd), /invisibility
                                    >>>>>> /
                                    >>>>>> (5th) *are* in the list and show up in Preview and Export sheets. The
                                    >>>>>> way the bloodline spells are being handled is confusing, but the numbers
                                    >>>>>> are correct in the end. Identify is a 1st level spell, so the number of
                                    >>>>>> KNOWN 1st level spells is bumped up 1 (from 4 to 5) at 3rd character
                                    >>>>>> level and Identify is added, thus allowing the user to tochoose the 4
                                    >>>>>> 1st level spells s/he wants. Same logic for 2nd level spells (at 5th
                                    >>>>>> character level).
                                    >>>>>>
                                    >>>>>> Conclusion: v6.00.0 is correct. v6.01.00-dev is broken.
                                    >>>>>>
                                    >>>>>> And both show 0,7,5 as the number that can be cast which is correct for
                                    >>>>>> a 5th level sorcerer with an 18 charisma.
                                    >>>
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >> ------------------------------------
                                    >>
                                    >> Related Lists
                                    >> PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                                    >> PCGen's Mailing Lists and Links: http://wiki.pcgen.org/Mailing_Lists_and_PCGen_Links
                                    >> PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                                    >> PCGen's JIRA Tracker: http://jira.pcgen.org
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >> PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                                    >> (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                                    >>
                                    >> PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                                    >> (for new official data source development)
                                    >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ------------------------------------
                                    >
                                    > Related Lists
                                    > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                                    > PCGen's Mailing Lists and Links: http://wiki.pcgen.org/Mailing_Lists_and_PCGen_Links
                                    > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                                    > PCGen's JIRA Tracker: http://jira.pcgen.org
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                                    > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                                    >
                                    > PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                                    > (for new official data source development)
                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                  • UnclePete
                                    OK, point taken. I guess that s why I m NOT the rules maven in my group :) However, it doesn t answer the problem I m having with PCGen and sorcerers, but I ll
                                    Message 17 of 30 , Jan 7, 2013
                                      OK, point taken. I guess that's why I'm NOT the rules maven in my group :)

                                      However, it doesn't answer the problem I'm having with PCGen and
                                      sorcerers, but I'll start another thread for that.

                                      Pete




                                      On 01/08/2013 11:35 AM, Eric C Smith wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Hi Folks!
                                      >
                                      > Pete wrote:
                                      > > I've been following this with some interest.
                                      > >
                                      > > I agree that PCGen is doing the right thing with 'base' sorcerers, but
                                      > > there seems to be a problem when you have high-charisma sorcerers, like
                                      > > the 7th level 21 Charisma example provided in many of these posts.
                                      > >
                                      > > My reading of the Pathfinder rules is that a 7th level sorcerer should
                                      > > have known spells of 7, 5, 3, 2 and the bloodline spells will increase
                                      > > that to 7, 6, 4, 3. So far, so good.
                                      > >
                                      > > However, the 21 Charisma (+5 bonus) gives the sorcerer bonus known
                                      > > spells of 0, 2, 1, 1 (Table 1-3 p17) for a grand total of 7, 8, 5, 4.
                                      > > PCGen is showing 7, 7, 5, 4.
                                      >
                                      > As David says, the stat bonus is on CAST spells, not KNOWN spells.
                                      >
                                      > We do have a preference setting that will add spells to the known list
                                      > per the stat bonus though.
                                      >
                                      > > Eric's example below shows this behaviour, and my tests reproduce it
                                      > > (PCGen 6.0.0 on linux with SUracle Java 6 - Core rulebook and Bestiary
                                      > > only loaded).
                                      >
                                      > And before anyone suggests that my example is given with stat bonus to
                                      > known spells, I specifically checked that, several times, like 4
                                      > times, or more, before I made my post. :-)
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      > > Pete
                                      > >
                                      > > PS - PCGen rocks! Keep up the good work, everyone.
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > On 01/08/2013 02:39 AM, Eric C Smith wrote:
                                      > >> Hi Folks!
                                      > >>
                                      > >> Using PCGen 6.0.0, I've created a barebones Sorcerer, 7th level, Human.
                                      > >>
                                      > >> I have not selected a sorcerer's bloodline, traits, feats, skills,
                                      > favored class, or spells. I have selected the human ability bonus as
                                      > well as the 4th level ability bonus, both going into Charisma, ending
                                      > with a final charisma of 21.
                                      > >>
                                      > >> Per PCGen:
                                      > >> Spells Known are 7, 6, 4, 3
                                      > >> Spells Cast are -, 8, 7, 5
                                      > >>
                                      > >> Now I add the Draconic (Black) Bloodline.
                                      > >>
                                      > >> Per PCGen:
                                      > >> Spells Known are 7, 7, 5, 4
                                      > >> Spells Cast are -, 8, 7, 5
                                      > >>
                                      > >>
                                      > >> Using PCGen 6.01.01 dev (last nights autobuild), I've created a
                                      > barebones Sorcerer, 7th level, Human.
                                      > >>
                                      > >> As above, I have not selected a sorcerer's bloodline, traits,
                                      > feats, skills, favored class, or spells. I have selected the human
                                      > ability bonus as well as the 4th level ability bonus, both going into
                                      > Charisma, ending with a final charisma of 21.
                                      > >>
                                      > >> Per PCGen:
                                      > >> Spells Known are 7, 5, 3, 2
                                      > >> Spells Cast are -, 8, 7, 5
                                      > >>
                                      > >> Now I add the Draconic (Black) Bloodline.
                                      > >>
                                      > >> Per PCGen:
                                      > >> Spells Known are 7, 5, 3, 2
                                      > >> Spells Cast are -, 8, 7, 5
                                      > >>
                                      > >> Not sure whats going on here as my sorcerer no longer gets the
                                      > Bloodline Spell. Otherwise the good news is that the Spells Known are
                                      > correct . . . :-)
                                      > >>
                                      > >> Maredudd
                                      > >>
                                      > >> P.S. I used the full autobuild file to package the Mac App as I do
                                      > for the release files.
                                      > >>
                                      > >> On Jan 7, 2013, at 9:28 AM, agnard wrote:
                                      > >>
                                      > >>> 6.00.x would be correct if it showed 7 6 4 3 but I get 7 7 5 4
                                      > >>>
                                      > >>> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com <mailto:pcgen%40yahoogroups.com>,
                                      > "David R. Bender" wrote:
                                      > >>>> Please re-read my post. 6.00.0 *includes* the bloodline spells in the
                                      > >>>> total number so it is correct. I agree, 6.0.1-dev is wrong and
                                      > does not
                                      > >>>> add the bloodline spells in.
                                      > >>>>
                                      > >>>> -- david
                                      > >>>> Papa.DRB
                                      > >>>>
                                      > >>>> My better half and me (jpg)
                                      > >>>>
                                      > >>>>
                                      > >>>> Love Me If You Can by Toby Keith (video)
                                      > >>>>
                                      > >>>>
                                      > >>>> Madness takes its toll - please have exact change.
                                      > >>>> For those who believe, no proof is necessary, for those who don't
                                      > >>>> believe, no proof is possible. (Stuart Chase 1888-1985)
                                      > >>>> On 1/7/2013 5:11 AM, agnard wrote:
                                      > >>>>> Just downloaded the nightly builds to make sure and the stable
                                      > release again.
                                      > >>>>>
                                      > >>>>> With 6.00.0 Stable, Branch Autobuilds (6.00.x) and Development
                                      > Autobuilds (6.01.x): all of them failed to give correct know spells
                                      > for my Human Draconic Sorcerer lvl 7 with 21 CHA.
                                      > >>>>>
                                      > >>>>> The first 2 gave more spells then I should have and the last one
                                      > just failed to add Bloodline spells.
                                      > >>>>>
                                      > >>>>>
                                      > >>>>>
                                      > >>>>> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com <mailto:pcgen%40yahoogroups.com>,
                                      > "David R. Bender" wrote:
                                      > >>>>>> The CAST & KNOWN tags have always been correct. The issue has
                                      > been the
                                      > >>>>>> bloodline spells and how they are handled.
                                      > >>>>>>
                                      > >>>>>> Part I:
                                      > >>>>>> I just downloaded last nights Autobuild, PCGen v6.01.00-dev.
                                      > >>>>>>
                                      > >>>>>> I created a 5th level sorcerer, with arcane bloodline. Spells
                                      > are 6,4,2
                                      > >>>>>> and there should be *Bonus Spells*: /identify
                                      > >>>>>> /
                                      > >>>>>> (3rd), /invisibility
                                      > >>>>>> /
                                      > >>>>>> (5th). They are not in the Known list of the character, nor do
                                      > they show
                                      > >>>>>> up in Preview or Export sheets.
                                      > >>>>>>
                                      > >>>>>> Part II:
                                      > >>>>>> Using PCGen v6.00.0, I created the exact same sorcerer as
                                      > above.Spells
                                      > >>>>>> are 6,5,3 andthe *Bonus Spells*: /identify
                                      > >>>>>> /
                                      > >>>>>> (3rd), /invisibility
                                      > >>>>>> /
                                      > >>>>>> (5th) *are* in the list and show up in Preview and Export
                                      > sheets. The
                                      > >>>>>> way the bloodline spells are being handled is confusing, but
                                      > the numbers
                                      > >>>>>> are correct in the end. Identify is a 1st level spell, so the
                                      > number of
                                      > >>>>>> KNOWN 1st level spells is bumped up 1 (from 4 to 5) at 3rd
                                      > character
                                      > >>>>>> level and Identify is added, thus allowing the user to tochoose
                                      > the 4
                                      > >>>>>> 1st level spells s/he wants. Same logic for 2nd level spells
                                      > (at 5th
                                      > >>>>>> character level).
                                      > >>>>>>
                                      > >>>>>> Conclusion: v6.00.0 is correct. v6.01.00-dev is broken.
                                      > >>>>>>
                                      > >>>>>> And both show 0,7,5 as the number that can be cast which is
                                      > correct for
                                      > >>>>>> a 5th level sorcerer with an 18 charisma.
                                      > >>>
                                      > >>
                                      > >>
                                      > >> ------------------------------------
                                      > >>
                                      > >> Related Lists
                                      > >> PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                                      > >> PCGen's Mailing Lists and Links:
                                      > http://wiki.pcgen.org/Mailing_Lists_and_PCGen_Links
                                      > >> PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                                      > >> PCGen's JIRA Tracker: http://jira.pcgen.org
                                      > >>
                                      > >>
                                      > >> PCGen List File Help:
                                      > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                                      > >> (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                                      > >>
                                      > >> PCGen Experimental:
                                      > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                                      > >> (for new official data source development)
                                      > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                      > >>
                                      > >>
                                      > >>
                                      > >>
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > ------------------------------------
                                      > >
                                      > > Related Lists
                                      > > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                                      > > PCGen's Mailing Lists and Links:
                                      > http://wiki.pcgen.org/Mailing_Lists_and_PCGen_Links
                                      > > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                                      > > PCGen's JIRA Tracker: http://jira.pcgen.org
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > PCGen List File Help:
                                      > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                                      > > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                                      > >
                                      > > PCGen Experimental:
                                      > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                                      > > (for new official data source development)
                                      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      >



                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • agnard
                                      Thanks for the fix, the spells are now correct :) Add to get the file at
                                      Message 18 of 30 , Jan 23, 2013
                                        Thanks for the fix, the spells are now correct :)

                                        Add to get the file at http://sourceforge.net/p/pcgen/code/19215/tree/branches/6.00.x/pcgen/data/d20ogl/paizo/pathfinder_rpg/core_rulebook/pfcr_abilities_class.lst

                                        For some odd reason the autobuilds (full distro) still has the error.


                                        --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "David R. Bender" wrote:
                                        >
                                        > You only get to *choose* 7,6,4,3 spells as the bloodline spells are
                                        > already in your known list.
                                        >
                                        > Like I said, the number is confusing, but correct. PCGen added 1 to the
                                        > number known for each bloodline spell, and then added the spell. You can
                                        > only choose the correct number of spells.
                                        >
                                        > -- david
                                        > Papa.DRB
                                        >
                                        > My better half and me (jpg)
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Love Me If You Can by Toby Keith (video)
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Madness takes its toll - please have exact change.
                                        > For those who believe, no proof is necessary, for those who don't
                                        > believe, no proof is possible. (Stuart Chase 1888-1985)
                                        > On 1/7/2013 9:28 AM, agnard wrote:
                                        > > 6.00.x would be correct if it showed 7 6 4 3 but I get 7 7 5 4
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "David R. Bender" wrote:
                                        > >> Please re-read my post. 6.00.0 *includes* the bloodline spells in the
                                        > >> total number so it is correct. I agree, 6.0.1-dev is wrong and does not
                                        > >> add the bloodline spells in.
                                        > >>
                                        > >> -- david
                                        > >> Papa.DRB
                                        > >>
                                        > >> My better half and me (jpg)
                                        > >>
                                        > >>
                                        > >> Love Me If You Can by Toby Keith (video)
                                        > >>
                                        > >>
                                        > >> Madness takes its toll - please have exact change.
                                        > >> For those who believe, no proof is necessary, for those who don't
                                        > >> believe, no proof is possible. (Stuart Chase 1888-1985)
                                        > >> On 1/7/2013 5:11 AM, agnard wrote:
                                        > >>> Just downloaded the nightly builds to make sure and the stable release again.
                                        > >>>
                                        > >>> With 6.00.0 Stable, Branch Autobuilds (6.00.x) and Development Autobuilds (6.01.x): all of them failed to give correct know spells for my Human Draconic Sorcerer lvl 7 with 21 CHA.
                                        > >>>
                                        > >>> The first 2 gave more spells then I should have and the last one just failed to add Bloodline spells.
                                        > >>>
                                        > >>>
                                        > >>>
                                        > >>> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "David R. Bender" wrote:
                                        > >>>> The CAST & KNOWN tags have always been correct. The issue has been the
                                        > >>>> bloodline spells and how they are handled.
                                        > >>>>
                                        > >>>> Part I:
                                        > >>>> I just downloaded last nights Autobuild, PCGen v6.01.00-dev.
                                        > >>>>
                                        > >>>> I created a 5th level sorcerer, with arcane bloodline. Spells are 6,4,2
                                        > >>>> and there should be *Bonus Spells*: /identify
                                        > >>>> /
                                        > >>>> (3rd), /invisibility
                                        > >>>> /
                                        > >>>> (5th). They are not in the Known list of the character, nor do they show
                                        > >>>> up in Preview or Export sheets.
                                        > >>>>
                                        > >>>> Part II:
                                        > >>>> Using PCGen v6.00.0, I created the exact same sorcerer as above.Spells
                                        > >>>> are 6,5,3 andthe *Bonus Spells*: /identify
                                        > >>>> /
                                        > >>>> (3rd), /invisibility
                                        > >>>> /
                                        > >>>> (5th) *are* in the list and show up in Preview and Export sheets. The
                                        > >>>> way the bloodline spells are being handled is confusing, but the numbers
                                        > >>>> are correct in the end. Identify is a 1st level spell, so the number of
                                        > >>>> KNOWN 1st level spells is bumped up 1 (from 4 to 5) at 3rd character
                                        > >>>> level and Identify is added, thus allowing the user to tochoose the 4
                                        > >>>> 1st level spells s/he wants. Same logic for 2nd level spells (at 5th
                                        > >>>> character level).
                                        > >>>>
                                        > >>>> Conclusion: v6.00.0 is correct. v6.01.00-dev is broken.
                                        > >>>>
                                        > >>>> And both show 0,7,5 as the number that can be cast which is correct for
                                        > >>>> a 5th level sorcerer with an 18 charisma.
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > ------------------------------------
                                        > >
                                        > > Related Lists
                                        > > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                                        > > PCGen's Mailing Lists and Links: http://wiki.pcgen.org/Mailing_Lists_and_PCGen_Links
                                        > > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                                        > > PCGen's JIRA Tracker: http://jira.pcgen.org
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                                        > > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                                        > >
                                        > > PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                                        > > (for new official data source development)
                                        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        >
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