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Questions about the "Standard Campaign" 80 pt build option

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  • Matt C
    I was wondering where the standard campaign 80 point character build option came from in RSRD 3.5 mode. Is it from Pathfinder or somewhere else as OGC? I ve
    Message 1 of 16 , Jan 3, 2013
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      I was wondering where the "standard campaign" 80 point character build option came from in RSRD 3.5 mode. Is it from Pathfinder or somewhere else as OGC? I've looked various places—like the docs, here, and the wiki—but haven't been able to find mention of it.

      If it came from some place as OGC, would that source also have as OGC starting wealth for beginning characters and for higher level characters that might be added in as kits or something? If it is PCGen-specific, perhaps it and some other useful features like starting wealth could be created and combined in the PCGen OGC pack.

      ~~ Matt
    • Paul
      I believe starting wealth is there for Pathfinder. Under kits
      Message 2 of 16 , Jan 3, 2013
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        I believe starting wealth is there for Pathfinder. Under kits


        --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Matt C" wrote:
        >
        > I was wondering where the "standard campaign" 80 point character build option came from in RSRD 3.5 mode. Is it from Pathfinder or somewhere else as OGC? I've looked various places—like the docs, here, and the wiki—but haven't been able to find mention of it.
        >
        > If it came from some place as OGC, would that source also have as OGC starting wealth for beginning characters and for higher level characters that might be added in as kits or something? If it is PCGen-specific, perhaps it and some other useful features like starting wealth could be created and combined in the PCGen OGC pack.
        >
        > ~~ Matt
        >
      • David R. Bender
        Yup, I know, I put them all there..... Both wealth by level for NPCs and PCs.... -- david Papa.DRB My better half and me (jpg)
        Message 3 of 16 , Jan 3, 2013
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          Yup, I know, I put them all there..... Both wealth by level for NPCs and
          PCs....

          -- david
          Papa.DRB

          My better half and me (jpg)
          <https://picasaweb.google.com/102726903532570043857/Family#slideshow/5533056948910114610>

          Love Me If You Can by Toby Keith (video)
          <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhcfFekSbHQ&ob=av3e>

          Madness takes its toll - please have exact change.
          For those who believe, no proof is necessary, for those who don't
          believe, no proof is possible. (Stuart Chase 1888-1985)
          On 1/3/2013 9:21 PM, Paul wrote:
          > I believe starting wealth is there for Pathfinder. Under kits
          >
          >
          > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Matt C" wrote:
          >> I was wondering where the "standard campaign" 80 point character build option came from in RSRD 3.5 mode. Is it from Pathfinder or somewhere else as OGC? I've looked various places—like the docs, here, and the wiki—but haven't been able to find mention of it.
          >>
          >> If it came from some place as OGC, would that source also have as OGC starting wealth for beginning characters and for higher level characters that might be added in as kits or something? If it is PCGen-specific, perhaps it and some other useful features like starting wealth could be created and combined in the PCGen OGC pack.
          >>
          >> ~~ Matt
        • Matt C
          Did the Standard Campaign 80 pt build in RSRD 3.5 mode come from Pathfinder? I don t know much about Pathfinder and even less about what is OGC in Pathfinder.
          Message 4 of 16 , Jan 4, 2013
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            Did the Standard Campaign 80 pt build in RSRD 3.5 mode come from Pathfinder? I don't know much about Pathfinder and even less about what is OGC in Pathfinder.

            Thanks, Matt

            --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "David R. Bender" wrote:
            >
            > Yup, I know, I put them all there..... Both wealth by level for NPCs and
            > PCs....
            >
            > -- david
            > Papa.DRB
            >
          • David R. Bender
            No, 80 point has been a standard point buy for 3.5 for a long time. -- david Papa.DRB My better half and me (jpg)
            Message 5 of 16 , Jan 4, 2013
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              No, 80 point has been a "standard" point buy for 3.5 for a long time.

              -- david
              Papa.DRB

              My better half and me (jpg)
              <https://picasaweb.google.com/102726903532570043857/Family#slideshow/5533056948910114610>

              Love Me If You Can by Toby Keith (video)
              <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhcfFekSbHQ&ob=av3e>

              Madness takes its toll - please have exact change.
              For those who believe, no proof is necessary, for those who don't
              believe, no proof is possible. (Stuart Chase 1888-1985)
              On 1/4/2013 4:53 PM, Matt C wrote:
              > Did the Standard Campaign 80 pt build in RSRD 3.5 mode come from Pathfinder? I don't know much about Pathfinder and even less about what is OGC in Pathfinder.
              >
              > Thanks, Matt
              >
              > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "David R. Bender" wrote:
              >> Yup, I know, I put them all there..... Both wealth by level for NPCs and
              >> PCs....
              >>
              >> -- david
              >> Papa.DRB
              >>
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > Related Lists
              > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
              > PCGen's Mailing Lists and Links: http://wiki.pcgen.org/Mailing_Lists_and_PCGen_Links
              > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
              > PCGen's JIRA Tracker: http://jira.pcgen.org
              >
              >
              > PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
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            • Stefan Radermacher
              ... Really? I remember 35 points being the default point build for 3.5. Stefan
              Message 6 of 16 , Jan 4, 2013
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                Am 04.01.13 22:56, schrieb David R. Bender:
                > No, 80 point has been a "standard" point buy for 3.5 for a long time.

                Really? I remember 35 points being the default point build for 3.5.

                Stefan
              • David R. Bender
                Yea, there were a lot of standard ways to create characters in 3.5. 1) 24, 28, 32 point buildsstarting at 8. 2) 25d6 and choose. 3) 80 points starting at
                Message 7 of 16 , Jan 4, 2013
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                  Yea, there were a "lot" of "standard" ways to create characters in 3.5.

                  1) 24, 28, 32 point buildsstarting at 8.
                  2) 25d6 and choose.
                  3) 80 points starting at 0.
                  4) heroic array
                  5) non-heroic array

                  Pathfinderchoose "other" "standard" ways, but in the long run it is
                  however each DM / player group wants to run it.

                  -- david
                  Papa.DRB

                  My better half and me (jpg)
                  <https://picasaweb.google.com/102726903532570043857/Family#slideshow/5533056948910114610>

                  Love Me If You Can by Toby Keith (video)
                  <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhcfFekSbHQ&ob=av3e>

                  Madness takes its toll - please have exact change.
                  For those who believe, no proof is necessary, for those who don't
                  believe, no proof is possible. (Stuart Chase 1888-1985)
                  On 1/4/2013 5:24 PM, Stefan Radermacher wrote:
                  > Am 04.01.13 22:56, schrieb David R. Bender:
                  >> No, 80 point has been a "standard" point buy for 3.5 for a long time.
                  > Really? I remember 35 points being the default point build for 3.5.
                  >
                  > Stefan
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > Related Lists
                  > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                  > PCGen's Mailing Lists and Links: http://wiki.pcgen.org/Mailing_Lists_and_PCGen_Links
                  > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                  > PCGen's JIRA Tracker: http://jira.pcgen.org
                  >
                  >
                  > PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                  > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                  >
                  > PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                  > (for new official data source development)
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Stefan Radermacher
                  ... Actuall I just checked my 3.5 DMG (page 169), and these are the point buy values listed: Low-powered campaign 15 points Challenging campaign 22 points
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jan 4, 2013
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                    Am 04.01.13 23:24, schrieb Stefan Radermacher:
                    > Am 04.01.13 22:56, schrieb David R. Bender:
                    >> No, 80 point has been a "standard" point buy for 3.5 for a long time.
                    >
                    > Really? I remember 35 points being the default point build for 3.5.

                    Actuall I just checked my 3.5 DMG (page 169), and these are the point
                    buy values listed:

                    Low-powered campaign 15 points
                    Challenging campaign 22 points
                    Tougher campaign 28 points
                    High-powered campaign 32 points

                    The 3.0 DMG has the same values (page 19). No 80 points anywhere. Weird.

                    Stefan.
                  • Stefan Radermacher
                    ... Where do you get that? I can t find any reference to that 80 point thing in either the 3.5 or the 3.0 core rules... Stefan.
                    Message 9 of 16 , Jan 4, 2013
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                      Am 04.01.13 23:27, schrieb David R. Bender:
                      > Yea, there were a "lot" of "standard" ways to create characters in 3.5.
                      >
                      > 1) 24, 28, 32 point buildsstarting at 8.
                      > 2) 25d6 and choose.
                      > 3) 80 points starting at 0.
                      > 4) heroic array
                      > 5) non-heroic array

                      Where do you get that? I can't find any reference to that 80 point thing
                      in either the 3.5 or the 3.0 core rules...

                      Stefan.
                    • David R. Bender
                      It wasn t in the rules, but I remember something on the Wizards site (a long time ago) that mentioned those methods. They probably were not official, but just
                      Message 10 of 16 , Jan 4, 2013
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                        It wasn't in the rules, but I remember something on the Wizards site (a
                        long time ago) that mentioned those methods. They probably were not
                        official, but just ones that folks used.


                        -- david
                        Papa.DRB

                        My better half and me (jpg)
                        <https://picasaweb.google.com/102726903532570043857/Family#slideshow/5533056948910114610>

                        Love Me If You Can by Toby Keith (video)
                        <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhcfFekSbHQ&ob=av3e>

                        Madness takes its toll - please have exact change.
                        For those who believe, no proof is necessary, for those who don't
                        believe, no proof is possible. (Stuart Chase 1888-1985)
                        On 1/4/2013 5:34 PM, Stefan Radermacher wrote:
                        > Am 04.01.13 23:27, schrieb David R. Bender:
                        >> Yea, there were a "lot" of "standard" ways to create characters in 3.5.
                        >>
                        >> 1) 24, 28, 32 point buildsstarting at 8.
                        >> 2) 25d6 and choose.
                        >> 3) 80 points starting at 0.
                        >> 4) heroic array
                        >> 5) non-heroic array
                        > Where do you get that? I can't find any reference to that 80 point thing
                        > in either the 3.5 or the 3.0 core rules...
                        >
                        > Stefan.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ------------------------------------
                        >
                        > Related Lists
                        > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                        > PCGen's Mailing Lists and Links: http://wiki.pcgen.org/Mailing_Lists_and_PCGen_Links
                        > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                        > PCGen's JIRA Tracker: http://jira.pcgen.org
                        >
                        >
                        > PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                        > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                        >
                        > PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                        > (for new official data source development)
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • Stefan Radermacher
                        ... That reminds me: non of these point build methods for 3e and 3.5e, wether from the DMG or a web site are actually covered by the OGL. We may be violating
                        Message 11 of 16 , Jan 4, 2013
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                          Am 04.01.13 23:36, schrieb David R. Bender:
                          > It wasn't in the rules, but I remember something on the Wizards site (a
                          > long time ago) that mentioned those methods. They probably were not
                          > official, but just ones that folks used.

                          That reminds me: non of these point build methods for 3e and 3.5e,
                          wether from the DMG or a web site are actually covered by the OGL. We
                          may be violating the license here.

                          Stefan
                        • David R. Bender
                          Send an email to Paul and have him check it out. I thought that this was all fan based stuff, and was covered by derivative work on the OGL. It would have been
                          Message 12 of 16 , Jan 4, 2013
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                            Send an email to Paul and have him check it out. I thought that this was
                            all fan based stuff, and was covered by derivative work on the OGL. It
                            would have been the d20 llicense that might have been the problem. But
                            Paul would know.

                            -- david
                            Papa.DRB

                            My better half and me (jpg)
                            <https://picasaweb.google.com/102726903532570043857/Family#slideshow/5533056948910114610>

                            Love Me If You Can by Toby Keith (video)
                            <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhcfFekSbHQ&ob=av3e>

                            Madness takes its toll - please have exact change.
                            For those who believe, no proof is necessary, for those who don't
                            believe, no proof is possible. (Stuart Chase 1888-1985)
                            On 1/4/2013 5:45 PM, Stefan Radermacher wrote:
                            > Am 04.01.13 23:36, schrieb David R. Bender:
                            >> It wasn't in the rules, but I remember something on the Wizards site (a
                            >> long time ago) that mentioned those methods. They probably were not
                            >> official, but just ones that folks used.
                            > That reminds me: non of these point build methods for 3e and 3.5e,
                            > wether from the DMG or a web site are actually covered by the OGL. We
                            > may be violating the license here.
                            >
                            > Stefan
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ------------------------------------
                            >
                            > Related Lists
                            > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                            > PCGen's Mailing Lists and Links: http://wiki.pcgen.org/Mailing_Lists_and_PCGen_Links
                            > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                            > PCGen's JIRA Tracker: http://jira.pcgen.org
                            >
                            >
                            > PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                            > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                            >
                            > PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                            > (for new official data source development)
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                          • Doug Limmer
                            I assumed that the 80 point buy method was made up and used precisely because the other methods were not OGL. DS/DL ... [Non-text portions of this message
                            Message 13 of 16 , Jan 4, 2013
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                              I assumed that the "80 point buy" method was made up and used precisely
                              because the other methods were not OGL.

                              DS/DL

                              On 1/4/2013 5:45 PM, Stefan Radermacher wrote:
                              >
                              > Am 04.01.13 23:36, schrieb David R. Bender:
                              > > It wasn't in the rules, but I remember something on the Wizards site (a
                              > > long time ago) that mentioned those methods. They probably were not
                              > > official, but just ones that folks used.
                              >
                              > That reminds me: non of these point build methods for 3e and 3.5e,
                              > wether from the DMG or a web site are actually covered by the OGL. We
                              > may be violating the license here.
                              >
                              > Stefan
                              >




                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Stefan Radermacher
                              ... That would makes sense indeed. Stefan
                              Message 14 of 16 , Jan 4, 2013
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                                Am 05.01.13 00:15, schrieb Doug Limmer:
                                > I assumed that the "80 point buy" method was made up and used precisely
                                > because the other methods were not OGL.

                                That would makes sense indeed.

                                Stefan
                              • rogerwllco
                                I think those aren t OGL, they re not in the SRD as far as I know. I always assumed what was said earlier, that the standard method that PCGen used is made
                                Message 15 of 16 , Jan 4, 2013
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                                  I think those aren't OGL, they're not in the SRD as far as I know.

                                  I always assumed what was said earlier, that the "standard method" that PCGen used is made up because the published methods aren't OGL.

                                  The CMP datasets did come with the DMG methods, but not the srd35 datasets.

                                  Cheers,

                                  Adriaan Renting/RogerWilco

                                  --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Radermacher wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Am 04.01.13 23:24, schrieb Stefan Radermacher:
                                  > > Am 04.01.13 22:56, schrieb David R. Bender:
                                  > >> No, 80 point has been a "standard" point buy for 3.5 for a long time.
                                  > >
                                  > > Really? I remember 35 points being the default point build for 3.5.
                                  >
                                  > Actuall I just checked my 3.5 DMG (page 169), and these are the point
                                  > buy values listed:
                                  >
                                  > Low-powered campaign 15 points
                                  > Challenging campaign 22 points
                                  > Tougher campaign 28 points
                                  > High-powered campaign 32 points
                                  >
                                  > The 3.0 DMG has the same values (page 19). No 80 points anywhere. Weird.
                                  >
                                  > Stefan.
                                  >
                                • Paul
                                  Yes the 80 point build was put in to be d20 compliant. Then when we dropped the d20 license the values were never added back in for 3e & 35e. Pathfinder has
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Jan 5, 2013
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                                    Yes the 80 point build was put in to be d20 compliant. Then when we dropped the d20 license the values were never added back in for 3e & 35e. Pathfinder has the values published.

                                    --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Radermacher wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Am 05.01.13 00:15, schrieb Doug Limmer:
                                    > > I assumed that the "80 point buy" method was made up and used precisely
                                    > > because the other methods were not OGL.
                                    >
                                    > That would makes sense indeed.
                                    >
                                    > Stefan
                                    >
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