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Re: [pcgen] Magus & Spell-Blending

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  • Andrew
    Hi, The question presented is Choosing a Spell, and Adding the spell to the Spellbook. We can easily do the first part with a simple choose. CHOOSE:SPELLS is
    Message 1 of 15 , Dec 7, 2012
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      Hi,

      The question presented is Choosing a Spell, and Adding the spell to the Spellbook.

      We can easily do the first part with a simple choose. CHOOSE:SPELLS is quite versatile.
      It's the second part that can't be done easily (Well, actually we can't add anything to a spell book
      today, we can add it to your known list).

      You can easily set up pairings like this:

      ABILITY:Special Ability|AUTOMATIC|Grant Magus Spell ~ Foo|PREABILITY:1,CATEGORY=Special
      Ability,Chooser Ability(Foo)
      Now, you'll get the Grant Magus Spell ~ Foo if the chooser has selected spell Foo. Easy to do. Now,
      rinse and repeat for every spell. Labor intense and doesn't cover any additional source books that
      increase the Magus's spell list.

      I don't see an easy method for an automatic method to handle that today with any other set up. For
      today, you can mainly add the spell to the ability to note it. And then the user needs to manually
      add it themselves. (You can do a Bonus for a Known spell easily enough, if that's what you were
      alluding to before, doesn't cover what the OP wanted, but does allow the end user the additional
      spell in a legit manner).


      On 12/8/2012 6:04 PM, Rob wrote:
      > Is there some reason it couldn't be done by TYPE (Or Descriptor) with a
      > bunch of PRExxx tags?
      >
      > W. Robert Reed III
      > Mynex
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: pcgen@yahoogroups.com [mailto:pcgen@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
      > Andrew
      > Sent: Friday, December 07, 2012 8:57 PM
      > To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: Re: [pcgen] Magus & Spell-Blending
      >
      > Hi Rob,
      >
      > Oh you can, but it's the cost vs. benefit. You're doing that for every
      > spell. Hence my statement it's possible but not really worth the effort.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > Related Lists
      > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
      > PCGen's Mailing Lists and Links: http://wiki.pcgen.org/Mailing_Lists_and_PCGen_Links
      > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
      > PCGen's JIRA Tracker: http://jira.pcgen.org
      >
      >
      > PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
      > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
      >
      > PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
      > (for new official data source development)
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >

      --
      Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
      Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
      Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
      Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
      Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Andrew
      Hi, The main reason is AUTO tags and Bonus tags. CHOOSE:WEAPONPROFICIENCY coupled with BONUS:WEAPONPROF=%LIST|TOHIT|1 or AUTO:WEAPONPROF|%LIST Spells don t
      Message 2 of 15 , Dec 7, 2012
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        Hi,

        The main reason is AUTO tags and Bonus tags.

        CHOOSE:WEAPONPROFICIENCY coupled with BONUS:WEAPONPROF=%LIST|TOHIT|1 or AUTO:WEAPONPROF|%LIST

        Spells don't have the proper AUTO and Bonus tags to be used the same way. You have SPELLLEVEL and
        SPELLKNOWN and those do NOT take '%LIST' without that it's an arduous process of coding each spell
        by hand. We need Code Support.

        I'll break it down further if you need later.... have a game tonight, and have the players showing
        up now.



        On 12/8/2012 6:43 PM, Rob wrote:
        > I guess I'm missing something in the understanding here... why can't we do a
        > TYPE=Arcane rather than setting up for each spell? We can do this with
        > skills and feats - Weapon focus being a an example that comes to mind... or
        > an 'ability' example... ranger's favored X ability chain...
        >
        > If we can set it up to choose and put it on/in the known spells, then the
        > user can put it in the spell book themselves...
        >
        > W. Robert Reed III
        > Mynex
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: pcgen@yahoogroups.com [mailto:pcgen@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
        > Andrew
        > Sent: Friday, December 07, 2012 9:15 PM
        > To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Re: [pcgen] Magus & Spell-Blending
        >
        > Hi,
        >
        > The question presented is Choosing a Spell, and Adding the spell to the
        > Spellbook.
        >
        > We can easily do the first part with a simple choose. CHOOSE:SPELLS is quite
        > versatile.
        > It's the second part that can't be done easily (Well, actually we can't add
        > anything to a spell book today, we can add it to your known list).
        >
        > You can easily set up pairings like this:
        >
        > ABILITY:Special Ability|AUTOMATIC|Grant Magus Spell ~
        > Foo|PREABILITY:1,CATEGORY=Special Ability,Chooser Ability(Foo) Now, you'll
        > get the Grant Magus Spell ~ Foo if the chooser has selected spell Foo. Easy
        > to do. Now, rinse and repeat for every spell. Labor intense and doesn't
        > cover any additional source books that increase the Magus's spell list.
        >
        > I don't see an easy method for an automatic method to handle that today with
        > any other set up. For today, you can mainly add the spell to the ability to
        > note it. And then the user needs to manually add it themselves. (You can do
        > a Bonus for a Known spell easily enough, if that's what you were alluding to
        > before, doesn't cover what the OP wanted, but does allow the end user the
        > additional spell in a legit manner).
        >
        >
        > On 12/8/2012 6:04 PM, Rob wrote:
        >> Is there some reason it couldn't be done by TYPE (Or Descriptor) with
        >> a bunch of PRExxx tags?
        >>
        >> W. Robert Reed III
        >> Mynex
        >>
        >> -----Original Message-----
        >> From: pcgen@yahoogroups.com [mailto:pcgen@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
        >> Of Andrew
        >> Sent: Friday, December 07, 2012 8:57 PM
        >> To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
        >> Subject: Re: [pcgen] Magus & Spell-Blending
        >>
        >> Hi Rob,
        >>
        >> Oh you can, but it's the cost vs. benefit. You're doing that for every
        >> spell. Hence my statement it's possible but not really worth the effort.
        >>
        >>
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Related Lists
        > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
        > PCGen's Mailing Lists and Links: http://wiki.pcgen.org/Mailing_Lists_and_PCGen_Links
        > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
        > PCGen's JIRA Tracker: http://jira.pcgen.org
        >
        >
        > PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
        > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
        >
        > PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
        > (for new official data source development)
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >

        --
        Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
        Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
        Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
        Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
        Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Barak
        ... (and ... Hey Rob! Actually, it is as designed. Push was made a while ago (couple/three years now?) to keep tag functions separate and get rid of the
        Message 3 of 15 , Dec 8, 2012
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          > So what's the point of the choose:spells tag if it doesn't do anything
          (and
          > choose:spelllevel for that matter)? Or am I missing some syntax to get it
          > to actually do something...???

          > Did some code get left undone for displaying back when this tag was
          > introduced maybe?

          Hey Rob!

          Actually, it is as designed. Push was made a while ago (couple/three years
          now?) to keep tag functions separate and get rid of the "magic" ones that
          were doing double duty. I don't recall the exact reasoning, I think it had
          to do with making the maintenance of the code easier as well as making it
          obvious what a tags scope was.

          CHOOSERs choose things and that's all they are supposed to do. Other tags
          (usually BONUS) implement things. This one never got the code work done
          necessary to implement it looks like.

          Barak
        • Rob
          I guess I m missing something in the understanding here... why can t we do a TYPE=Arcane rather than setting up for each spell? We can do this with skills and
          Message 4 of 15 , Dec 8, 2012
          • 0 Attachment
            I guess I'm missing something in the understanding here... why can't we do a
            TYPE=Arcane rather than setting up for each spell? We can do this with
            skills and feats - Weapon focus being a an example that comes to mind... or
            an 'ability' example... ranger's favored X ability chain...

            If we can set it up to choose and put it on/in the known spells, then the
            user can put it in the spell book themselves...

            W. Robert Reed III
            Mynex

            -----Original Message-----
            From: pcgen@yahoogroups.com [mailto:pcgen@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
            Andrew
            Sent: Friday, December 07, 2012 9:15 PM
            To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [pcgen] Magus & Spell-Blending

            Hi,

            The question presented is Choosing a Spell, and Adding the spell to the
            Spellbook.

            We can easily do the first part with a simple choose. CHOOSE:SPELLS is quite
            versatile.
            It's the second part that can't be done easily (Well, actually we can't add
            anything to a spell book today, we can add it to your known list).

            You can easily set up pairings like this:

            ABILITY:Special Ability|AUTOMATIC|Grant Magus Spell ~
            Foo|PREABILITY:1,CATEGORY=Special Ability,Chooser Ability(Foo) Now, you'll
            get the Grant Magus Spell ~ Foo if the chooser has selected spell Foo. Easy
            to do. Now, rinse and repeat for every spell. Labor intense and doesn't
            cover any additional source books that increase the Magus's spell list.

            I don't see an easy method for an automatic method to handle that today with
            any other set up. For today, you can mainly add the spell to the ability to
            note it. And then the user needs to manually add it themselves. (You can do
            a Bonus for a Known spell easily enough, if that's what you were alluding to
            before, doesn't cover what the OP wanted, but does allow the end user the
            additional spell in a legit manner).


            On 12/8/2012 6:04 PM, Rob wrote:
            > Is there some reason it couldn't be done by TYPE (Or Descriptor) with
            > a bunch of PRExxx tags?
            >
            > W. Robert Reed III
            > Mynex
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: pcgen@yahoogroups.com [mailto:pcgen@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
            > Of Andrew
            > Sent: Friday, December 07, 2012 8:57 PM
            > To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: Re: [pcgen] Magus & Spell-Blending
            >
            > Hi Rob,
            >
            > Oh you can, but it's the cost vs. benefit. You're doing that for every
            > spell. Hence my statement it's possible but not really worth the effort.
            >
            >
          • Rob
            Okay, this finally clicked in my brain (amazing what sleep can do!)... So getting and selecting a spell is not the issue;
            Message 5 of 15 , Dec 9, 2012
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              Okay, this finally clicked in my brain (amazing what sleep can do!)... So
              getting and selecting a spell is not the issue;

              CHOOSE:SPELLS|CLASSLIST=Magus[KNOWN=NO]|SPELLTYPE=Magus[LEVELMAX=MAXCASTABLE
              ]

              Would give a list of all the magus spells not currently known that they can
              cast at their highest level for selection of a spell (Which does work, I
              just tested it)

              BUT not put it in their spells known list (which it does not from my
              test)... nor does it list it on the output sheet.

              So what's the point of the choose:spells tag if it doesn't do anything (and
              choose:spelllevel for that matter)? Or am I missing some syntax to get it
              to actually do something...???

              Did some code get left undone for displaying back when this tag was
              introduced maybe?


              W. Robert Reed III
              Mynex

              -----Original Message-----
              From: pcgen@yahoogroups.com [mailto:pcgen@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
              Andrew
              Sent: Friday, December 07, 2012 10:47 PM
              To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [pcgen] Magus & Spell-Blending

              Hi,

              The main reason is AUTO tags and Bonus tags.

              CHOOSE:WEAPONPROFICIENCY coupled with BONUS:WEAPONPROF=%LIST|TOHIT|1 or
              AUTO:WEAPONPROF|%LIST

              Spells don't have the proper AUTO and Bonus tags to be used the same way.
              You have SPELLLEVEL and SPELLKNOWN and those do NOT take '%LIST' without
              that it's an arduous process of coding each spell by hand. We need Code
              Support.

              I'll break it down further if you need later.... have a game tonight, and
              have the players showing up now.



              On 12/8/2012 6:43 PM, Rob wrote:
              > I guess I'm missing something in the understanding here... why can't
              > we do a TYPE=Arcane rather than setting up for each spell? We can do
              > this with skills and feats - Weapon focus being a an example that
              > comes to mind... or an 'ability' example... ranger's favored X ability
              chain...
              >
              > If we can set it up to choose and put it on/in the known spells, then
              > the user can put it in the spell book themselves...
              >
              > W. Robert Reed III
              > Mynex
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: pcgen@yahoogroups.com [mailto:pcgen@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
              > Of Andrew
              > Sent: Friday, December 07, 2012 9:15 PM
              > To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: Re: [pcgen] Magus & Spell-Blending
              >
              > Hi,
              >
              > The question presented is Choosing a Spell, and Adding the spell to
              > the Spellbook.
              >
              > We can easily do the first part with a simple choose. CHOOSE:SPELLS is
              > quite versatile.
              > It's the second part that can't be done easily (Well, actually we
              > can't add anything to a spell book today, we can add it to your known
              list).
              >
              > You can easily set up pairings like this:
              >
              > ABILITY:Special Ability|AUTOMATIC|Grant Magus Spell ~
              > Foo|PREABILITY:1,CATEGORY=Special Ability,Chooser Ability(Foo) Now,
              > Foo|you'll
              > get the Grant Magus Spell ~ Foo if the chooser has selected spell Foo.
              > Easy to do. Now, rinse and repeat for every spell. Labor intense and
              > doesn't cover any additional source books that increase the Magus's spell
              list.
              >
              > I don't see an easy method for an automatic method to handle that
              > today with any other set up. For today, you can mainly add the spell
              > to the ability to note it. And then the user needs to manually add it
              > themselves. (You can do a Bonus for a Known spell easily enough, if
              > that's what you were alluding to before, doesn't cover what the OP
              > wanted, but does allow the end user the additional spell in a legit
              manner).
              >
              >
              > On 12/8/2012 6:04 PM, Rob wrote:
              >> Is there some reason it couldn't be done by TYPE (Or Descriptor) with
              >> a bunch of PRExxx tags?
              >>
              >> W. Robert Reed III
              >> Mynex
              >>
              >> -----Original Message-----
              >> From: pcgen@yahoogroups.com [mailto:pcgen@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
              >> Of Andrew
              >> Sent: Friday, December 07, 2012 8:57 PM
              >> To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
              >> Subject: Re: [pcgen] Magus & Spell-Blending
              >>
              >> Hi Rob,
              >>
              >> Oh you can, but it's the cost vs. benefit. You're doing that for
              >> every spell. Hence my statement it's possible but not really worth the
              effort.
              >>
              >>
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > Related Lists
              > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net PCGen's Mailing
              > Lists and Links: http://wiki.pcgen.org/Mailing_Lists_and_PCGen_Links
              > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
              > PCGen's JIRA Tracker: http://jira.pcgen.org
              >
              >
              > PCGen List File Help:
              > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
              > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
              >
              > PCGen Experimental:
              > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
              > (for new official data source development) Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >

              --
              Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
              Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
              Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
              Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



              ------------------------------------

              Related Lists
              PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
              PCGen's Mailing Lists and Links:
              http://wiki.pcgen.org/Mailing_Lists_and_PCGen_Links
              PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
              PCGen's JIRA Tracker: http://jira.pcgen.org


              PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
              (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)

              PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
              (for new official data source development)
              Yahoo! Groups Links
            • Rob
              Ah, okay... Well I tried. Figured I could display my ignorance of the new stuff for the whole world to see! XD And Chris *innocent smile* Just the monkey I
              Message 6 of 15 , Dec 9, 2012
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                Ah, okay... Well I tried. Figured I could display my ignorance of the new
                stuff for the whole world to see! XD

                And Chris *innocent smile* Just the monkey I was looking for... hit me
                offlist if you dare! ;)


                W. Robert Reed III
                Mynex


                -----Original Message-----
                From: pcgen@yahoogroups.com [mailto:pcgen@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                Barak
                Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2012 10:11 AM
                To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: RE: [pcgen] Magus & Spell-Blending

                > So what's the point of the choose:spells tag if it doesn't do anything
                (and
                > choose:spelllevel for that matter)? Or am I missing some syntax to get
                > it to actually do something...???

                > Did some code get left undone for displaying back when this tag was
                > introduced maybe?

                Hey Rob!

                Actually, it is as designed. Push was made a while ago (couple/three years
                now?) to keep tag functions separate and get rid of the "magic" ones that
                were doing double duty. I don't recall the exact reasoning, I think it had
                to do with making the maintenance of the code easier as well as making it
                obvious what a tags scope was.

                CHOOSERs choose things and that's all they are supposed to do. Other tags
                (usually BONUS) implement things. This one never got the code work done
                necessary to implement it looks like.

                Barak



                ------------------------------------

                Related Lists
                PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net PCGen's Mailing Lists and
                Links: http://wiki.pcgen.org/Mailing_Lists_and_PCGen_Links
                PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                PCGen's JIRA Tracker: http://jira.pcgen.org


                PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)

                PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                (for new official data source development) Yahoo! Groups Links
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