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Re: [pcgen] Magus & Spell-Blending

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  • Maredudd
    Oh, hi Rob! :-) Sent from my iPad ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    Message 1 of 15 , Dec 7, 2012
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      Oh, hi Rob! :-)

      Sent from my iPad

      On Dec 7, 2012, at 4:59 PM, Maredudd <maredudd@...> wrote:

      > Hi Folks!
      >
      > Kar wrote:
      >
      > > It lives ;-)
      > >
      >
      > Took the words right out of my mouth! :-)
      > >
      > > mynex wrote:
      > >
      > >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Andrew
      Hi Rob, Oh you can, but it s the cost vs. benefit. You re doing that for every spell. Hence my statement it s possible but not really worth the effort. ... --
      Message 2 of 15 , Dec 7, 2012
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        Hi Rob,

        Oh you can, but it's the cost vs. benefit. You're doing that for every spell. Hence my statement
        it's possible but not really worth the effort.

        On 12/7/2012 2:05 PM, Maredudd wrote:
        > Oh, hi Rob! :-)
        >
        > Sent from my iPad
        >
        > On Dec 7, 2012, at 4:59 PM, Maredudd <maredudd@...> wrote:
        >
        >> Hi Folks!
        >>
        >> Kar wrote:
        >>
        >>> It lives ;-)
        >>>
        >> Took the words right out of my mouth! :-)
        >>> mynex wrote:
        >>>
        >>>
        >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >>
        >>
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Related Lists
        > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
        > PCGen's Mailing Lists and Links: http://wiki.pcgen.org/Mailing_Lists_and_PCGen_Links
        > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
        > PCGen's JIRA Tracker: http://jira.pcgen.org
        >
        >
        > PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
        > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
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        >
        >
        >
        >

        --
        Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
        Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
        Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
        Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
        Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Andrew
        Hi, The question presented is Choosing a Spell, and Adding the spell to the Spellbook. We can easily do the first part with a simple choose. CHOOSE:SPELLS is
        Message 3 of 15 , Dec 7, 2012
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          Hi,

          The question presented is Choosing a Spell, and Adding the spell to the Spellbook.

          We can easily do the first part with a simple choose. CHOOSE:SPELLS is quite versatile.
          It's the second part that can't be done easily (Well, actually we can't add anything to a spell book
          today, we can add it to your known list).

          You can easily set up pairings like this:

          ABILITY:Special Ability|AUTOMATIC|Grant Magus Spell ~ Foo|PREABILITY:1,CATEGORY=Special
          Ability,Chooser Ability(Foo)
          Now, you'll get the Grant Magus Spell ~ Foo if the chooser has selected spell Foo. Easy to do. Now,
          rinse and repeat for every spell. Labor intense and doesn't cover any additional source books that
          increase the Magus's spell list.

          I don't see an easy method for an automatic method to handle that today with any other set up. For
          today, you can mainly add the spell to the ability to note it. And then the user needs to manually
          add it themselves. (You can do a Bonus for a Known spell easily enough, if that's what you were
          alluding to before, doesn't cover what the OP wanted, but does allow the end user the additional
          spell in a legit manner).


          On 12/8/2012 6:04 PM, Rob wrote:
          > Is there some reason it couldn't be done by TYPE (Or Descriptor) with a
          > bunch of PRExxx tags?
          >
          > W. Robert Reed III
          > Mynex
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: pcgen@yahoogroups.com [mailto:pcgen@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
          > Andrew
          > Sent: Friday, December 07, 2012 8:57 PM
          > To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: Re: [pcgen] Magus & Spell-Blending
          >
          > Hi Rob,
          >
          > Oh you can, but it's the cost vs. benefit. You're doing that for every
          > spell. Hence my statement it's possible but not really worth the effort.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Related Lists
          > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
          > PCGen's Mailing Lists and Links: http://wiki.pcgen.org/Mailing_Lists_and_PCGen_Links
          > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
          > PCGen's JIRA Tracker: http://jira.pcgen.org
          >
          >
          > PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
          > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
          >
          > PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
          > (for new official data source development)
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >

          --
          Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
          Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
          Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
          Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
          Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Andrew
          Hi, The main reason is AUTO tags and Bonus tags. CHOOSE:WEAPONPROFICIENCY coupled with BONUS:WEAPONPROF=%LIST|TOHIT|1 or AUTO:WEAPONPROF|%LIST Spells don t
          Message 4 of 15 , Dec 7, 2012
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            Hi,

            The main reason is AUTO tags and Bonus tags.

            CHOOSE:WEAPONPROFICIENCY coupled with BONUS:WEAPONPROF=%LIST|TOHIT|1 or AUTO:WEAPONPROF|%LIST

            Spells don't have the proper AUTO and Bonus tags to be used the same way. You have SPELLLEVEL and
            SPELLKNOWN and those do NOT take '%LIST' without that it's an arduous process of coding each spell
            by hand. We need Code Support.

            I'll break it down further if you need later.... have a game tonight, and have the players showing
            up now.



            On 12/8/2012 6:43 PM, Rob wrote:
            > I guess I'm missing something in the understanding here... why can't we do a
            > TYPE=Arcane rather than setting up for each spell? We can do this with
            > skills and feats - Weapon focus being a an example that comes to mind... or
            > an 'ability' example... ranger's favored X ability chain...
            >
            > If we can set it up to choose and put it on/in the known spells, then the
            > user can put it in the spell book themselves...
            >
            > W. Robert Reed III
            > Mynex
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: pcgen@yahoogroups.com [mailto:pcgen@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
            > Andrew
            > Sent: Friday, December 07, 2012 9:15 PM
            > To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: Re: [pcgen] Magus & Spell-Blending
            >
            > Hi,
            >
            > The question presented is Choosing a Spell, and Adding the spell to the
            > Spellbook.
            >
            > We can easily do the first part with a simple choose. CHOOSE:SPELLS is quite
            > versatile.
            > It's the second part that can't be done easily (Well, actually we can't add
            > anything to a spell book today, we can add it to your known list).
            >
            > You can easily set up pairings like this:
            >
            > ABILITY:Special Ability|AUTOMATIC|Grant Magus Spell ~
            > Foo|PREABILITY:1,CATEGORY=Special Ability,Chooser Ability(Foo) Now, you'll
            > get the Grant Magus Spell ~ Foo if the chooser has selected spell Foo. Easy
            > to do. Now, rinse and repeat for every spell. Labor intense and doesn't
            > cover any additional source books that increase the Magus's spell list.
            >
            > I don't see an easy method for an automatic method to handle that today with
            > any other set up. For today, you can mainly add the spell to the ability to
            > note it. And then the user needs to manually add it themselves. (You can do
            > a Bonus for a Known spell easily enough, if that's what you were alluding to
            > before, doesn't cover what the OP wanted, but does allow the end user the
            > additional spell in a legit manner).
            >
            >
            > On 12/8/2012 6:04 PM, Rob wrote:
            >> Is there some reason it couldn't be done by TYPE (Or Descriptor) with
            >> a bunch of PRExxx tags?
            >>
            >> W. Robert Reed III
            >> Mynex
            >>
            >> -----Original Message-----
            >> From: pcgen@yahoogroups.com [mailto:pcgen@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
            >> Of Andrew
            >> Sent: Friday, December 07, 2012 8:57 PM
            >> To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
            >> Subject: Re: [pcgen] Magus & Spell-Blending
            >>
            >> Hi Rob,
            >>
            >> Oh you can, but it's the cost vs. benefit. You're doing that for every
            >> spell. Hence my statement it's possible but not really worth the effort.
            >>
            >>
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > Related Lists
            > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
            > PCGen's Mailing Lists and Links: http://wiki.pcgen.org/Mailing_Lists_and_PCGen_Links
            > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
            > PCGen's JIRA Tracker: http://jira.pcgen.org
            >
            >
            > PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
            > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
            >
            > PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
            > (for new official data source development)
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >

            --
            Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
            Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
            Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
            Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
            Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Barak
            ... (and ... Hey Rob! Actually, it is as designed. Push was made a while ago (couple/three years now?) to keep tag functions separate and get rid of the
            Message 5 of 15 , Dec 8, 2012
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              > So what's the point of the choose:spells tag if it doesn't do anything
              (and
              > choose:spelllevel for that matter)? Or am I missing some syntax to get it
              > to actually do something...???

              > Did some code get left undone for displaying back when this tag was
              > introduced maybe?

              Hey Rob!

              Actually, it is as designed. Push was made a while ago (couple/three years
              now?) to keep tag functions separate and get rid of the "magic" ones that
              were doing double duty. I don't recall the exact reasoning, I think it had
              to do with making the maintenance of the code easier as well as making it
              obvious what a tags scope was.

              CHOOSERs choose things and that's all they are supposed to do. Other tags
              (usually BONUS) implement things. This one never got the code work done
              necessary to implement it looks like.

              Barak
            • Rob
              Is there some reason it couldn t be done by TYPE (Or Descriptor) with a bunch of PRExxx tags? W. Robert Reed III Mynex ... From: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
              Message 6 of 15 , Dec 8, 2012
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                Is there some reason it couldn't be done by TYPE (Or Descriptor) with a
                bunch of PRExxx tags?

                W. Robert Reed III
                Mynex

                -----Original Message-----
                From: pcgen@yahoogroups.com [mailto:pcgen@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                Andrew
                Sent: Friday, December 07, 2012 8:57 PM
                To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [pcgen] Magus & Spell-Blending

                Hi Rob,

                Oh you can, but it's the cost vs. benefit. You're doing that for every
                spell. Hence my statement it's possible but not really worth the effort.
              • Rob
                I guess I m missing something in the understanding here... why can t we do a TYPE=Arcane rather than setting up for each spell? We can do this with skills and
                Message 7 of 15 , Dec 8, 2012
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                  I guess I'm missing something in the understanding here... why can't we do a
                  TYPE=Arcane rather than setting up for each spell? We can do this with
                  skills and feats - Weapon focus being a an example that comes to mind... or
                  an 'ability' example... ranger's favored X ability chain...

                  If we can set it up to choose and put it on/in the known spells, then the
                  user can put it in the spell book themselves...

                  W. Robert Reed III
                  Mynex

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: pcgen@yahoogroups.com [mailto:pcgen@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                  Andrew
                  Sent: Friday, December 07, 2012 9:15 PM
                  To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [pcgen] Magus & Spell-Blending

                  Hi,

                  The question presented is Choosing a Spell, and Adding the spell to the
                  Spellbook.

                  We can easily do the first part with a simple choose. CHOOSE:SPELLS is quite
                  versatile.
                  It's the second part that can't be done easily (Well, actually we can't add
                  anything to a spell book today, we can add it to your known list).

                  You can easily set up pairings like this:

                  ABILITY:Special Ability|AUTOMATIC|Grant Magus Spell ~
                  Foo|PREABILITY:1,CATEGORY=Special Ability,Chooser Ability(Foo) Now, you'll
                  get the Grant Magus Spell ~ Foo if the chooser has selected spell Foo. Easy
                  to do. Now, rinse and repeat for every spell. Labor intense and doesn't
                  cover any additional source books that increase the Magus's spell list.

                  I don't see an easy method for an automatic method to handle that today with
                  any other set up. For today, you can mainly add the spell to the ability to
                  note it. And then the user needs to manually add it themselves. (You can do
                  a Bonus for a Known spell easily enough, if that's what you were alluding to
                  before, doesn't cover what the OP wanted, but does allow the end user the
                  additional spell in a legit manner).


                  On 12/8/2012 6:04 PM, Rob wrote:
                  > Is there some reason it couldn't be done by TYPE (Or Descriptor) with
                  > a bunch of PRExxx tags?
                  >
                  > W. Robert Reed III
                  > Mynex
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: pcgen@yahoogroups.com [mailto:pcgen@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                  > Of Andrew
                  > Sent: Friday, December 07, 2012 8:57 PM
                  > To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: Re: [pcgen] Magus & Spell-Blending
                  >
                  > Hi Rob,
                  >
                  > Oh you can, but it's the cost vs. benefit. You're doing that for every
                  > spell. Hence my statement it's possible but not really worth the effort.
                  >
                  >
                • Rob
                  Okay, this finally clicked in my brain (amazing what sleep can do!)... So getting and selecting a spell is not the issue;
                  Message 8 of 15 , Dec 9, 2012
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                    Okay, this finally clicked in my brain (amazing what sleep can do!)... So
                    getting and selecting a spell is not the issue;

                    CHOOSE:SPELLS|CLASSLIST=Magus[KNOWN=NO]|SPELLTYPE=Magus[LEVELMAX=MAXCASTABLE
                    ]

                    Would give a list of all the magus spells not currently known that they can
                    cast at their highest level for selection of a spell (Which does work, I
                    just tested it)

                    BUT not put it in their spells known list (which it does not from my
                    test)... nor does it list it on the output sheet.

                    So what's the point of the choose:spells tag if it doesn't do anything (and
                    choose:spelllevel for that matter)? Or am I missing some syntax to get it
                    to actually do something...???

                    Did some code get left undone for displaying back when this tag was
                    introduced maybe?


                    W. Robert Reed III
                    Mynex

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: pcgen@yahoogroups.com [mailto:pcgen@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                    Andrew
                    Sent: Friday, December 07, 2012 10:47 PM
                    To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [pcgen] Magus & Spell-Blending

                    Hi,

                    The main reason is AUTO tags and Bonus tags.

                    CHOOSE:WEAPONPROFICIENCY coupled with BONUS:WEAPONPROF=%LIST|TOHIT|1 or
                    AUTO:WEAPONPROF|%LIST

                    Spells don't have the proper AUTO and Bonus tags to be used the same way.
                    You have SPELLLEVEL and SPELLKNOWN and those do NOT take '%LIST' without
                    that it's an arduous process of coding each spell by hand. We need Code
                    Support.

                    I'll break it down further if you need later.... have a game tonight, and
                    have the players showing up now.



                    On 12/8/2012 6:43 PM, Rob wrote:
                    > I guess I'm missing something in the understanding here... why can't
                    > we do a TYPE=Arcane rather than setting up for each spell? We can do
                    > this with skills and feats - Weapon focus being a an example that
                    > comes to mind... or an 'ability' example... ranger's favored X ability
                    chain...
                    >
                    > If we can set it up to choose and put it on/in the known spells, then
                    > the user can put it in the spell book themselves...
                    >
                    > W. Robert Reed III
                    > Mynex
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: pcgen@yahoogroups.com [mailto:pcgen@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                    > Of Andrew
                    > Sent: Friday, December 07, 2012 9:15 PM
                    > To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: Re: [pcgen] Magus & Spell-Blending
                    >
                    > Hi,
                    >
                    > The question presented is Choosing a Spell, and Adding the spell to
                    > the Spellbook.
                    >
                    > We can easily do the first part with a simple choose. CHOOSE:SPELLS is
                    > quite versatile.
                    > It's the second part that can't be done easily (Well, actually we
                    > can't add anything to a spell book today, we can add it to your known
                    list).
                    >
                    > You can easily set up pairings like this:
                    >
                    > ABILITY:Special Ability|AUTOMATIC|Grant Magus Spell ~
                    > Foo|PREABILITY:1,CATEGORY=Special Ability,Chooser Ability(Foo) Now,
                    > Foo|you'll
                    > get the Grant Magus Spell ~ Foo if the chooser has selected spell Foo.
                    > Easy to do. Now, rinse and repeat for every spell. Labor intense and
                    > doesn't cover any additional source books that increase the Magus's spell
                    list.
                    >
                    > I don't see an easy method for an automatic method to handle that
                    > today with any other set up. For today, you can mainly add the spell
                    > to the ability to note it. And then the user needs to manually add it
                    > themselves. (You can do a Bonus for a Known spell easily enough, if
                    > that's what you were alluding to before, doesn't cover what the OP
                    > wanted, but does allow the end user the additional spell in a legit
                    manner).
                    >
                    >
                    > On 12/8/2012 6:04 PM, Rob wrote:
                    >> Is there some reason it couldn't be done by TYPE (Or Descriptor) with
                    >> a bunch of PRExxx tags?
                    >>
                    >> W. Robert Reed III
                    >> Mynex
                    >>
                    >> -----Original Message-----
                    >> From: pcgen@yahoogroups.com [mailto:pcgen@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                    >> Of Andrew
                    >> Sent: Friday, December 07, 2012 8:57 PM
                    >> To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                    >> Subject: Re: [pcgen] Magus & Spell-Blending
                    >>
                    >> Hi Rob,
                    >>
                    >> Oh you can, but it's the cost vs. benefit. You're doing that for
                    >> every spell. Hence my statement it's possible but not really worth the
                    effort.
                    >>
                    >>
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    > Related Lists
                    > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net PCGen's Mailing
                    > Lists and Links: http://wiki.pcgen.org/Mailing_Lists_and_PCGen_Links
                    > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                    > PCGen's JIRA Tracker: http://jira.pcgen.org
                    >
                    >
                    > PCGen List File Help:
                    > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                    > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                    >
                    > PCGen Experimental:
                    > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                    > (for new official data source development) Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >

                    --
                    Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
                    Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
                    Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
                    Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                    ------------------------------------

                    Related Lists
                    PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                    PCGen's Mailing Lists and Links:
                    http://wiki.pcgen.org/Mailing_Lists_and_PCGen_Links
                    PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                    PCGen's JIRA Tracker: http://jira.pcgen.org


                    PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                    (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)

                    PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                    (for new official data source development)
                    Yahoo! Groups Links
                  • Rob
                    Ah, okay... Well I tried. Figured I could display my ignorance of the new stuff for the whole world to see! XD And Chris *innocent smile* Just the monkey I
                    Message 9 of 15 , Dec 9, 2012
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                      Ah, okay... Well I tried. Figured I could display my ignorance of the new
                      stuff for the whole world to see! XD

                      And Chris *innocent smile* Just the monkey I was looking for... hit me
                      offlist if you dare! ;)


                      W. Robert Reed III
                      Mynex


                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: pcgen@yahoogroups.com [mailto:pcgen@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                      Barak
                      Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2012 10:11 AM
                      To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: RE: [pcgen] Magus & Spell-Blending

                      > So what's the point of the choose:spells tag if it doesn't do anything
                      (and
                      > choose:spelllevel for that matter)? Or am I missing some syntax to get
                      > it to actually do something...???

                      > Did some code get left undone for displaying back when this tag was
                      > introduced maybe?

                      Hey Rob!

                      Actually, it is as designed. Push was made a while ago (couple/three years
                      now?) to keep tag functions separate and get rid of the "magic" ones that
                      were doing double duty. I don't recall the exact reasoning, I think it had
                      to do with making the maintenance of the code easier as well as making it
                      obvious what a tags scope was.

                      CHOOSERs choose things and that's all they are supposed to do. Other tags
                      (usually BONUS) implement things. This one never got the code work done
                      necessary to implement it looks like.

                      Barak



                      ------------------------------------

                      Related Lists
                      PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net PCGen's Mailing Lists and
                      Links: http://wiki.pcgen.org/Mailing_Lists_and_PCGen_Links
                      PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                      PCGen's JIRA Tracker: http://jira.pcgen.org


                      PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                      (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)

                      PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                      (for new official data source development) Yahoo! Groups Links
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