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Re: [pcgen] Magus & Spell-Blending

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  • Maredudd
    Hi Folks! ... Took the words right out of my mouth! :-) ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    Message 1 of 15 , Dec 7, 2012
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      Hi Folks!

      Kar wrote:

      > It lives ;-)
      >

      Took the words right out of my mouth! :-)
      >
      > mynex wrote:
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Maredudd
      Oh, hi Rob! :-) Sent from my iPad ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      Message 2 of 15 , Dec 7, 2012
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        Oh, hi Rob! :-)

        Sent from my iPad

        On Dec 7, 2012, at 4:59 PM, Maredudd <maredudd@...> wrote:

        > Hi Folks!
        >
        > Kar wrote:
        >
        > > It lives ;-)
        > >
        >
        > Took the words right out of my mouth! :-)
        > >
        > > mynex wrote:
        > >
        > >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Andrew
        Hi Rob, Oh you can, but it s the cost vs. benefit. You re doing that for every spell. Hence my statement it s possible but not really worth the effort. ... --
        Message 3 of 15 , Dec 7, 2012
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          Hi Rob,

          Oh you can, but it's the cost vs. benefit. You're doing that for every spell. Hence my statement
          it's possible but not really worth the effort.

          On 12/7/2012 2:05 PM, Maredudd wrote:
          > Oh, hi Rob! :-)
          >
          > Sent from my iPad
          >
          > On Dec 7, 2012, at 4:59 PM, Maredudd <maredudd@...> wrote:
          >
          >> Hi Folks!
          >>
          >> Kar wrote:
          >>
          >>> It lives ;-)
          >>>
          >> Took the words right out of my mouth! :-)
          >>> mynex wrote:
          >>>
          >>>
          >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >>
          >>
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Related Lists
          > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
          > PCGen's Mailing Lists and Links: http://wiki.pcgen.org/Mailing_Lists_and_PCGen_Links
          > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
          > PCGen's JIRA Tracker: http://jira.pcgen.org
          >
          >
          > PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
          > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
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          >
          >
          >

          --
          Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
          Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
          Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
          Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
          Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Andrew
          Hi, The question presented is Choosing a Spell, and Adding the spell to the Spellbook. We can easily do the first part with a simple choose. CHOOSE:SPELLS is
          Message 4 of 15 , Dec 7, 2012
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            Hi,

            The question presented is Choosing a Spell, and Adding the spell to the Spellbook.

            We can easily do the first part with a simple choose. CHOOSE:SPELLS is quite versatile.
            It's the second part that can't be done easily (Well, actually we can't add anything to a spell book
            today, we can add it to your known list).

            You can easily set up pairings like this:

            ABILITY:Special Ability|AUTOMATIC|Grant Magus Spell ~ Foo|PREABILITY:1,CATEGORY=Special
            Ability,Chooser Ability(Foo)
            Now, you'll get the Grant Magus Spell ~ Foo if the chooser has selected spell Foo. Easy to do. Now,
            rinse and repeat for every spell. Labor intense and doesn't cover any additional source books that
            increase the Magus's spell list.

            I don't see an easy method for an automatic method to handle that today with any other set up. For
            today, you can mainly add the spell to the ability to note it. And then the user needs to manually
            add it themselves. (You can do a Bonus for a Known spell easily enough, if that's what you were
            alluding to before, doesn't cover what the OP wanted, but does allow the end user the additional
            spell in a legit manner).


            On 12/8/2012 6:04 PM, Rob wrote:
            > Is there some reason it couldn't be done by TYPE (Or Descriptor) with a
            > bunch of PRExxx tags?
            >
            > W. Robert Reed III
            > Mynex
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: pcgen@yahoogroups.com [mailto:pcgen@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
            > Andrew
            > Sent: Friday, December 07, 2012 8:57 PM
            > To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: Re: [pcgen] Magus & Spell-Blending
            >
            > Hi Rob,
            >
            > Oh you can, but it's the cost vs. benefit. You're doing that for every
            > spell. Hence my statement it's possible but not really worth the effort.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > Related Lists
            > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
            > PCGen's Mailing Lists and Links: http://wiki.pcgen.org/Mailing_Lists_and_PCGen_Links
            > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
            > PCGen's JIRA Tracker: http://jira.pcgen.org
            >
            >
            > PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
            > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
            >
            > PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
            > (for new official data source development)
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >

            --
            Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
            Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
            Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
            Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
            Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Andrew
            Hi, The main reason is AUTO tags and Bonus tags. CHOOSE:WEAPONPROFICIENCY coupled with BONUS:WEAPONPROF=%LIST|TOHIT|1 or AUTO:WEAPONPROF|%LIST Spells don t
            Message 5 of 15 , Dec 7, 2012
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              Hi,

              The main reason is AUTO tags and Bonus tags.

              CHOOSE:WEAPONPROFICIENCY coupled with BONUS:WEAPONPROF=%LIST|TOHIT|1 or AUTO:WEAPONPROF|%LIST

              Spells don't have the proper AUTO and Bonus tags to be used the same way. You have SPELLLEVEL and
              SPELLKNOWN and those do NOT take '%LIST' without that it's an arduous process of coding each spell
              by hand. We need Code Support.

              I'll break it down further if you need later.... have a game tonight, and have the players showing
              up now.



              On 12/8/2012 6:43 PM, Rob wrote:
              > I guess I'm missing something in the understanding here... why can't we do a
              > TYPE=Arcane rather than setting up for each spell? We can do this with
              > skills and feats - Weapon focus being a an example that comes to mind... or
              > an 'ability' example... ranger's favored X ability chain...
              >
              > If we can set it up to choose and put it on/in the known spells, then the
              > user can put it in the spell book themselves...
              >
              > W. Robert Reed III
              > Mynex
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: pcgen@yahoogroups.com [mailto:pcgen@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
              > Andrew
              > Sent: Friday, December 07, 2012 9:15 PM
              > To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: Re: [pcgen] Magus & Spell-Blending
              >
              > Hi,
              >
              > The question presented is Choosing a Spell, and Adding the spell to the
              > Spellbook.
              >
              > We can easily do the first part with a simple choose. CHOOSE:SPELLS is quite
              > versatile.
              > It's the second part that can't be done easily (Well, actually we can't add
              > anything to a spell book today, we can add it to your known list).
              >
              > You can easily set up pairings like this:
              >
              > ABILITY:Special Ability|AUTOMATIC|Grant Magus Spell ~
              > Foo|PREABILITY:1,CATEGORY=Special Ability,Chooser Ability(Foo) Now, you'll
              > get the Grant Magus Spell ~ Foo if the chooser has selected spell Foo. Easy
              > to do. Now, rinse and repeat for every spell. Labor intense and doesn't
              > cover any additional source books that increase the Magus's spell list.
              >
              > I don't see an easy method for an automatic method to handle that today with
              > any other set up. For today, you can mainly add the spell to the ability to
              > note it. And then the user needs to manually add it themselves. (You can do
              > a Bonus for a Known spell easily enough, if that's what you were alluding to
              > before, doesn't cover what the OP wanted, but does allow the end user the
              > additional spell in a legit manner).
              >
              >
              > On 12/8/2012 6:04 PM, Rob wrote:
              >> Is there some reason it couldn't be done by TYPE (Or Descriptor) with
              >> a bunch of PRExxx tags?
              >>
              >> W. Robert Reed III
              >> Mynex
              >>
              >> -----Original Message-----
              >> From: pcgen@yahoogroups.com [mailto:pcgen@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
              >> Of Andrew
              >> Sent: Friday, December 07, 2012 8:57 PM
              >> To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
              >> Subject: Re: [pcgen] Magus & Spell-Blending
              >>
              >> Hi Rob,
              >>
              >> Oh you can, but it's the cost vs. benefit. You're doing that for every
              >> spell. Hence my statement it's possible but not really worth the effort.
              >>
              >>
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > Related Lists
              > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
              > PCGen's Mailing Lists and Links: http://wiki.pcgen.org/Mailing_Lists_and_PCGen_Links
              > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
              > PCGen's JIRA Tracker: http://jira.pcgen.org
              >
              >
              > PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
              > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
              >
              > PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
              > (for new official data source development)
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >

              --
              Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
              Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
              Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
              Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
              Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Barak
              ... (and ... Hey Rob! Actually, it is as designed. Push was made a while ago (couple/three years now?) to keep tag functions separate and get rid of the
              Message 6 of 15 , Dec 8, 2012
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                > So what's the point of the choose:spells tag if it doesn't do anything
                (and
                > choose:spelllevel for that matter)? Or am I missing some syntax to get it
                > to actually do something...???

                > Did some code get left undone for displaying back when this tag was
                > introduced maybe?

                Hey Rob!

                Actually, it is as designed. Push was made a while ago (couple/three years
                now?) to keep tag functions separate and get rid of the "magic" ones that
                were doing double duty. I don't recall the exact reasoning, I think it had
                to do with making the maintenance of the code easier as well as making it
                obvious what a tags scope was.

                CHOOSERs choose things and that's all they are supposed to do. Other tags
                (usually BONUS) implement things. This one never got the code work done
                necessary to implement it looks like.

                Barak
              • Rob
                Is there some reason it couldn t be done by TYPE (Or Descriptor) with a bunch of PRExxx tags? W. Robert Reed III Mynex ... From: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                Message 7 of 15 , Dec 8, 2012
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                  Is there some reason it couldn't be done by TYPE (Or Descriptor) with a
                  bunch of PRExxx tags?

                  W. Robert Reed III
                  Mynex

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: pcgen@yahoogroups.com [mailto:pcgen@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                  Andrew
                  Sent: Friday, December 07, 2012 8:57 PM
                  To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [pcgen] Magus & Spell-Blending

                  Hi Rob,

                  Oh you can, but it's the cost vs. benefit. You're doing that for every
                  spell. Hence my statement it's possible but not really worth the effort.
                • Rob
                  I guess I m missing something in the understanding here... why can t we do a TYPE=Arcane rather than setting up for each spell? We can do this with skills and
                  Message 8 of 15 , Dec 8, 2012
                  • 0 Attachment
                    I guess I'm missing something in the understanding here... why can't we do a
                    TYPE=Arcane rather than setting up for each spell? We can do this with
                    skills and feats - Weapon focus being a an example that comes to mind... or
                    an 'ability' example... ranger's favored X ability chain...

                    If we can set it up to choose and put it on/in the known spells, then the
                    user can put it in the spell book themselves...

                    W. Robert Reed III
                    Mynex

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: pcgen@yahoogroups.com [mailto:pcgen@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                    Andrew
                    Sent: Friday, December 07, 2012 9:15 PM
                    To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [pcgen] Magus & Spell-Blending

                    Hi,

                    The question presented is Choosing a Spell, and Adding the spell to the
                    Spellbook.

                    We can easily do the first part with a simple choose. CHOOSE:SPELLS is quite
                    versatile.
                    It's the second part that can't be done easily (Well, actually we can't add
                    anything to a spell book today, we can add it to your known list).

                    You can easily set up pairings like this:

                    ABILITY:Special Ability|AUTOMATIC|Grant Magus Spell ~
                    Foo|PREABILITY:1,CATEGORY=Special Ability,Chooser Ability(Foo) Now, you'll
                    get the Grant Magus Spell ~ Foo if the chooser has selected spell Foo. Easy
                    to do. Now, rinse and repeat for every spell. Labor intense and doesn't
                    cover any additional source books that increase the Magus's spell list.

                    I don't see an easy method for an automatic method to handle that today with
                    any other set up. For today, you can mainly add the spell to the ability to
                    note it. And then the user needs to manually add it themselves. (You can do
                    a Bonus for a Known spell easily enough, if that's what you were alluding to
                    before, doesn't cover what the OP wanted, but does allow the end user the
                    additional spell in a legit manner).


                    On 12/8/2012 6:04 PM, Rob wrote:
                    > Is there some reason it couldn't be done by TYPE (Or Descriptor) with
                    > a bunch of PRExxx tags?
                    >
                    > W. Robert Reed III
                    > Mynex
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: pcgen@yahoogroups.com [mailto:pcgen@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                    > Of Andrew
                    > Sent: Friday, December 07, 2012 8:57 PM
                    > To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: Re: [pcgen] Magus & Spell-Blending
                    >
                    > Hi Rob,
                    >
                    > Oh you can, but it's the cost vs. benefit. You're doing that for every
                    > spell. Hence my statement it's possible but not really worth the effort.
                    >
                    >
                  • Rob
                    Okay, this finally clicked in my brain (amazing what sleep can do!)... So getting and selecting a spell is not the issue;
                    Message 9 of 15 , Dec 9, 2012
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                      Okay, this finally clicked in my brain (amazing what sleep can do!)... So
                      getting and selecting a spell is not the issue;

                      CHOOSE:SPELLS|CLASSLIST=Magus[KNOWN=NO]|SPELLTYPE=Magus[LEVELMAX=MAXCASTABLE
                      ]

                      Would give a list of all the magus spells not currently known that they can
                      cast at their highest level for selection of a spell (Which does work, I
                      just tested it)

                      BUT not put it in their spells known list (which it does not from my
                      test)... nor does it list it on the output sheet.

                      So what's the point of the choose:spells tag if it doesn't do anything (and
                      choose:spelllevel for that matter)? Or am I missing some syntax to get it
                      to actually do something...???

                      Did some code get left undone for displaying back when this tag was
                      introduced maybe?


                      W. Robert Reed III
                      Mynex

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: pcgen@yahoogroups.com [mailto:pcgen@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                      Andrew
                      Sent: Friday, December 07, 2012 10:47 PM
                      To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [pcgen] Magus & Spell-Blending

                      Hi,

                      The main reason is AUTO tags and Bonus tags.

                      CHOOSE:WEAPONPROFICIENCY coupled with BONUS:WEAPONPROF=%LIST|TOHIT|1 or
                      AUTO:WEAPONPROF|%LIST

                      Spells don't have the proper AUTO and Bonus tags to be used the same way.
                      You have SPELLLEVEL and SPELLKNOWN and those do NOT take '%LIST' without
                      that it's an arduous process of coding each spell by hand. We need Code
                      Support.

                      I'll break it down further if you need later.... have a game tonight, and
                      have the players showing up now.



                      On 12/8/2012 6:43 PM, Rob wrote:
                      > I guess I'm missing something in the understanding here... why can't
                      > we do a TYPE=Arcane rather than setting up for each spell? We can do
                      > this with skills and feats - Weapon focus being a an example that
                      > comes to mind... or an 'ability' example... ranger's favored X ability
                      chain...
                      >
                      > If we can set it up to choose and put it on/in the known spells, then
                      > the user can put it in the spell book themselves...
                      >
                      > W. Robert Reed III
                      > Mynex
                      >
                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: pcgen@yahoogroups.com [mailto:pcgen@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                      > Of Andrew
                      > Sent: Friday, December 07, 2012 9:15 PM
                      > To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: Re: [pcgen] Magus & Spell-Blending
                      >
                      > Hi,
                      >
                      > The question presented is Choosing a Spell, and Adding the spell to
                      > the Spellbook.
                      >
                      > We can easily do the first part with a simple choose. CHOOSE:SPELLS is
                      > quite versatile.
                      > It's the second part that can't be done easily (Well, actually we
                      > can't add anything to a spell book today, we can add it to your known
                      list).
                      >
                      > You can easily set up pairings like this:
                      >
                      > ABILITY:Special Ability|AUTOMATIC|Grant Magus Spell ~
                      > Foo|PREABILITY:1,CATEGORY=Special Ability,Chooser Ability(Foo) Now,
                      > Foo|you'll
                      > get the Grant Magus Spell ~ Foo if the chooser has selected spell Foo.
                      > Easy to do. Now, rinse and repeat for every spell. Labor intense and
                      > doesn't cover any additional source books that increase the Magus's spell
                      list.
                      >
                      > I don't see an easy method for an automatic method to handle that
                      > today with any other set up. For today, you can mainly add the spell
                      > to the ability to note it. And then the user needs to manually add it
                      > themselves. (You can do a Bonus for a Known spell easily enough, if
                      > that's what you were alluding to before, doesn't cover what the OP
                      > wanted, but does allow the end user the additional spell in a legit
                      manner).
                      >
                      >
                      > On 12/8/2012 6:04 PM, Rob wrote:
                      >> Is there some reason it couldn't be done by TYPE (Or Descriptor) with
                      >> a bunch of PRExxx tags?
                      >>
                      >> W. Robert Reed III
                      >> Mynex
                      >>
                      >> -----Original Message-----
                      >> From: pcgen@yahoogroups.com [mailto:pcgen@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                      >> Of Andrew
                      >> Sent: Friday, December 07, 2012 8:57 PM
                      >> To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                      >> Subject: Re: [pcgen] Magus & Spell-Blending
                      >>
                      >> Hi Rob,
                      >>
                      >> Oh you can, but it's the cost vs. benefit. You're doing that for
                      >> every spell. Hence my statement it's possible but not really worth the
                      effort.
                      >>
                      >>
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >
                      > Related Lists
                      > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net PCGen's Mailing
                      > Lists and Links: http://wiki.pcgen.org/Mailing_Lists_and_PCGen_Links
                      > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                      > PCGen's JIRA Tracker: http://jira.pcgen.org
                      >
                      >
                      > PCGen List File Help:
                      > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                      > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                      >
                      > PCGen Experimental:
                      > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                      > (for new official data source development) Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >

                      --
                      Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
                      Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
                      Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
                      Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                      ------------------------------------

                      Related Lists
                      PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                      PCGen's Mailing Lists and Links:
                      http://wiki.pcgen.org/Mailing_Lists_and_PCGen_Links
                      PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                      PCGen's JIRA Tracker: http://jira.pcgen.org


                      PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                      (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)

                      PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                      (for new official data source development)
                      Yahoo! Groups Links
                    • Rob
                      Ah, okay... Well I tried. Figured I could display my ignorance of the new stuff for the whole world to see! XD And Chris *innocent smile* Just the monkey I
                      Message 10 of 15 , Dec 9, 2012
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                        Ah, okay... Well I tried. Figured I could display my ignorance of the new
                        stuff for the whole world to see! XD

                        And Chris *innocent smile* Just the monkey I was looking for... hit me
                        offlist if you dare! ;)


                        W. Robert Reed III
                        Mynex


                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: pcgen@yahoogroups.com [mailto:pcgen@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                        Barak
                        Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2012 10:11 AM
                        To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [pcgen] Magus & Spell-Blending

                        > So what's the point of the choose:spells tag if it doesn't do anything
                        (and
                        > choose:spelllevel for that matter)? Or am I missing some syntax to get
                        > it to actually do something...???

                        > Did some code get left undone for displaying back when this tag was
                        > introduced maybe?

                        Hey Rob!

                        Actually, it is as designed. Push was made a while ago (couple/three years
                        now?) to keep tag functions separate and get rid of the "magic" ones that
                        were doing double duty. I don't recall the exact reasoning, I think it had
                        to do with making the maintenance of the code easier as well as making it
                        obvious what a tags scope was.

                        CHOOSERs choose things and that's all they are supposed to do. Other tags
                        (usually BONUS) implement things. This one never got the code work done
                        necessary to implement it looks like.

                        Barak



                        ------------------------------------

                        Related Lists
                        PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net PCGen's Mailing Lists and
                        Links: http://wiki.pcgen.org/Mailing_Lists_and_PCGen_Links
                        PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                        PCGen's JIRA Tracker: http://jira.pcgen.org


                        PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                        (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)

                        PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                        (for new official data source development) Yahoo! Groups Links
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