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Pathfinder Skill Point Calculations

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  • allencohn
    Hello! The number of skill points granted doesn t match my expectation...either I m wrong on the rules or there may be a calculation error. I loaded the basic
    Message 1 of 10 , Sep 27, 2012
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      Hello!

      The number of skill points granted doesn't match my expectation...either I'm wrong on the rules or there may be a calculation error.

      I loaded the basic Pathfinder for player dataset, created a human cleric with INT 7.

      I thought that such a character should be granted three skill points:

      2 for class
      -2 for low INT (but actually -1 because INT penalty can't bring it below 1)

      +1 for human
      +1 for favored class (if I choose that favored class bonus)

      For a total of 3.

      But I only get 2...

      Thoughts? Can anyone reproduce?

      Thanks,
      Allen
    • Andrew
      Hi, It s correct. Math is math. There is no limiter on the Int penalty. PCGen will still give you 1 skill point per level if the negatives outweigh the
      Message 2 of 10 , Sep 27, 2012
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        Hi,

        It's correct.

        Math is math. There is no limiter on the Int penalty. PCGen will still give you 1 skill point per
        level if the negatives outweigh the positives.

        On 9/27/2012 3:23 PM, allencohn wrote:
        > Hello!
        >
        > The number of skill points granted doesn't match my expectation...either I'm wrong on the rules or there may be a calculation error.
        >
        > I loaded the basic Pathfinder for player dataset, created a human cleric with INT 7.
        >
        > I thought that such a character should be granted three skill points:
        >
        > 2 for class
        > -2 for low INT (but actually -1 because INT penalty can't bring it below 1)
        >
        > +1 for human
        > +1 for favored class (if I choose that favored class bonus)
        >
        > For a total of 3.
        >
        > But I only get 2...
        >
        > Thoughts? Can anyone reproduce?
        >
        > Thanks,
        > Allen
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Related Lists
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        --
        Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
        Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
        Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
        Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
        Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Allen Cohn
        But shouldn t the 1 point minimum per level no matter what the INT penalty is be applied *before* the human bonus of 1 point per level and before the favored
        Message 3 of 10 , Sep 27, 2012
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          But shouldn't the "1 point minimum per level no matter what the INT penalty is" be applied *before* the human bonus of 1 point per level and before the favored class bonus?

          Thanks,
          Allen

          --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Andrew <drew0500@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi,
          >
          > It's correct.
          >
          > Math is math. There is no limiter on the Int penalty. PCGen will still give you 1 skill point per
          > level if the negatives outweigh the positives.
          >
          > On 9/27/2012 3:23 PM, allencohn wrote:
          > > Hello!
          > >
          > > The number of skill points granted doesn't match my expectation...either I'm wrong on the rules or there may be a calculation error.
          > >
          > > I loaded the basic Pathfinder for player dataset, created a human cleric with INT 7.
          > >
          > > I thought that such a character should be granted three skill points:
          > >
          > > 2 for class
          > > -2 for low INT (but actually -1 because INT penalty can't bring it below 1)
          > >
          > > +1 for human
          > > +1 for favored class (if I choose that favored class bonus)
          > >
          > > For a total of 3.
          > >
          > > But I only get 2...
          > >
          > > Thoughts? Can anyone reproduce?
          > >
          > > Thanks,
          > > Allen
        • James Dempsey
          Hi Allen, One thing that might be causing confusion here is that the skill rank from your favored class (if you choose that option) is selected on the feats an
          Message 4 of 10 , Sep 27, 2012
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            Hi Allen,

            One thing that might be causing confusion here is that the skill rank from
            your favored class (if you choose that option) is selected on the feats an
            abilities tab rather than the Skill tab.

            Cheers,
            James Dempsey
            PCGen Code SB


            On 28 September 2012 11:09, Allen Cohn <allen@...> wrote:

            > But shouldn't the "1 point minimum per level no matter what the INT
            > penalty is" be applied *before* the human bonus of 1 point per level and
            > before the favored class bonus?
            >
            > Thanks,
            > Allen
            >
            > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Andrew <drew0500@...> wrote:
            > >
            > > Hi,
            > >
            > > It's correct.
            > >
            > > Math is math. There is no limiter on the Int penalty. PCGen will still
            > give you 1 skill point per
            > > level if the negatives outweigh the positives.
            > >
            > > On 9/27/2012 3:23 PM, allencohn wrote:
            > > > Hello!
            > > >
            > > > The number of skill points granted doesn't match my
            > expectation...either I'm wrong on the rules or there may be a calculation
            > error.
            > > >
            > > > I loaded the basic Pathfinder for player dataset, created a human
            > cleric with INT 7.
            > > >
            > > > I thought that such a character should be granted three skill points:
            > > >
            > > > 2 for class
            > > > -2 for low INT (but actually -1 because INT penalty can't bring it
            > below 1)
            > > >
            > > > +1 for human
            > > > +1 for favored class (if I choose that favored class bonus)
            > > >
            > > > For a total of 3.
            > > >
            > > > But I only get 2...
            > > >
            > > > Thoughts? Can anyone reproduce?
            > > >
            > > > Thanks,
            > > > Allen
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > Related Lists
            > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
            > PCGen's Mailing Lists and Links:
            > http://wiki.pcgen.org/Mailing_Lists_and_PCGen_Links
            > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
            > PCGen's JIRA Tracker: http://jira.pcgen.org
            >
            >
            > PCGen List File Help:
            > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
            > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
            >
            > PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
            > (for new official data source development)
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Allen Cohn
            Thanks, James. I don t think that s it. Just to confirm, I leveled the character to 2nd and only 1 point was added, not the two I expected (1 for 2nd level and
            Message 5 of 10 , Sep 27, 2012
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              Thanks, James.

              I don't think that's it. Just to confirm, I leveled the character to 2nd and only 1 point was added, not the two I expected (1 for 2nd level and 1 for human).

              Allen

              --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, James Dempsey <jdempsey@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi Allen,
              >
              > One thing that might be causing confusion here is that the skill rank from
              > your favored class (if you choose that option) is selected on the feats an
              > abilities tab rather than the Skill tab.
              >
              > Cheers,
              > James Dempsey
              > PCGen Code SB
              >
            • Andrew
              Hi, Please cite the source of the rule that states it is only from the class skill points. Cheers, ... -- Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing) Admin Silverback -
              Message 6 of 10 , Sep 27, 2012
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                Hi,

                Please cite the source of the rule that states it is only from the class skill points.

                Cheers,

                On 9/27/2012 7:31 PM, Allen Cohn wrote:
                > Thanks, James.
                > I don't think that's it. Just to confirm, I leveled the character to 2nd and only 1 point was added, not the two I expected (1 for 2nd level and 1 for human).
                >
                > Allen
                >
                > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, James Dempsey <jdempsey@...> wrote:
                >> Hi Allen,
                >>
                >> One thing that might be causing confusion here is that the skill rank from
                >> your favored class (if you choose that option) is selected on the feats an
                >> abilities tab rather than the Skill tab.
                >>
                >> Cheers,
                >> James Dempsey
                >> PCGen Code SB
                >>
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > Related Lists
                > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                > PCGen's Mailing Lists and Links: http://wiki.pcgen.org/Mailing_Lists_and_PCGen_Links
                > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                > PCGen's JIRA Tracker: http://jira.pcgen.org
                >
                >
                > PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                >
                > PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                > (for new official data source development)
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >

                --
                Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
                Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
                Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
                Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
                Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Allen Cohn
                I just did some research. Although it s not crystal clear in the rules, James Jacobs (Paizo exec) has stated that the minimum function is applied before the
                Message 7 of 10 , Sep 27, 2012
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                  I just did some research. Although it's not crystal clear in the rules, James Jacobs (Paizo exec) has stated that the "minimum function" is applied before the human race and favored class bonuses, and this interpretation has become part of the unofficial FAQ.

                  http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/pathfinder-faq#TOC-Acquiring-Skills-4-13-10-

                  Allen

                  --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Andrew <drew0500@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hi,
                  >
                  > Please cite the source of the rule that states it is only from the class skill points.
                  >
                  > Cheers,
                  >
                • Andrew
                  Thanks for the research - I dislike unofficial in any title, even if it s quoting a person involved in the book. We have to go by the book and official
                  Message 8 of 10 , Sep 27, 2012
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                    Thanks for the research -
                    I dislike "unofficial" in any title, even if it's quoting a person involved in the book. We have to
                    go by the book and 'official' errata put out by the publisher. I can't justify pushing for a change
                    for an unofficial ruling this late in the cycle.

                    However, you can open a Feature Request for it. What you're asking involves either a Code Change
                    (Which at this point would be a NEW TAG Request) or a Data Change. It won't likely get addressed
                    till after the 6.0 release though. Beta phase and rapidly moving towards our final release.

                    I'll take into consideration such things, when an object's design is unclear - like a bad
                    abbreviation, or wording that makes it difficult to determine intent.

                    Cheers,

                    On 9/27/2012 9:50 PM, Allen Cohn wrote:
                    > I just did some research. Although it's not crystal clear in the rules, James Jacobs (Paizo exec) has stated that the "minimum function" is applied before the human race and favored class bonuses, and this interpretation has become part of the unofficial FAQ.
                    >
                    > http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/pathfinder-faq#TOC-Acquiring-Skills-4-13-10-
                    >
                    > Allen
                    >
                    > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Andrew <drew0500@...> wrote:
                    >> Hi,
                    >>
                    >> Please cite the source of the rule that states it is only from the class skill points.
                    >>
                    >> Cheers,
                    >>
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    > Related Lists
                    > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                    > PCGen's Mailing Lists and Links: http://wiki.pcgen.org/Mailing_Lists_and_PCGen_Links
                    > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                    > PCGen's JIRA Tracker: http://jira.pcgen.org
                    >
                    >
                    > PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                    > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                    >
                    > PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                    > (for new official data source development)
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >

                    --
                    Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
                    Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
                    Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
                    Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
                    Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Allen Cohn
                    Thanks, Andrew. It sounds like the PCGen team thinks that PCGen is following the rules correctly now. So, no need for PCGen change. I ll just use the interface
                    Message 9 of 10 , Sep 28, 2012
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                      Thanks, Andrew.

                      It sounds like the PCGen team thinks that PCGen is following the rules correctly now. So, no need for PCGen change.

                      I'll just use the interface to force an extra skill point each level. That should solve the needs of my table's alternate interpretation.

                      Thanks,
                      Allen


                      --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Andrew <drew0500@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Thanks for the research -
                      > I dislike "unofficial" in any title, even if it's quoting a person involved in the book. We have to
                      > go by the book and 'official' errata put out by the publisher. I can't justify pushing for a change
                      > for an unofficial ruling this late in the cycle.
                      >
                      > However, you can open a Feature Request for it. What you're asking involves either a Code Change
                      > (Which at this point would be a NEW TAG Request) or a Data Change. It won't likely get addressed
                      > till after the 6.0 release though. Beta phase and rapidly moving towards our final release.
                      >
                      > I'll take into consideration such things, when an object's design is unclear - like a bad
                      > abbreviation, or wording that makes it difficult to determine intent.
                      >
                      > Cheers,
                    • Andrew
                      We endeavor to follow the official rules of the source, even if they might be outdated. Looking at that page, the comment was made April 2010, and it s now
                      Message 10 of 10 , Sep 28, 2012
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                        We endeavor to follow the official rules of the source, even if they might be outdated. Looking at
                        that page, the comment was made April 2010, and it's now September 2012.

                        I can have a PL monkey poke them and see if they put it in an errata update and we missed it.

                        Like I said, make a JIRA. We can work something out in the alpha cycle of 6.2. But we're a bit too
                        late to alter things for 6.0.

                        If you want to make it work without the manual adjustment - Remove the BONUS:SKILLPOOL from the
                        human trait, instead change it to 'BONUS:ABILITYPOOL|Human Skill Point|TL'

                        Create the 'Human Skill Point' Abilitycategory. Make an ability (You can model it from the one I use
                        in Eclipse)

                        ~ Full Skill Buy KEY:Full Skill Buy OUTPUTNAME:~ Skill Buy Choice
                        CATEGORY:Skill Buy TYPE:SkillBuy.FullCost STACK:YES MULT:YES
                        CHOOSE:SKILL|TYPE=AdeptChoice BONUS:SKILLRANK|%LIST|1 COST:1

                        Hope that helps.

                        Cheers,


                        On 9/28/2012 7:36 AM, Allen Cohn wrote:
                        > Thanks, Andrew.
                        >
                        > It sounds like the PCGen team thinks that PCGen is following the rules correctly now. So, no need for PCGen change.
                        >
                        > I'll just use the interface to force an extra skill point each level. That should solve the needs of my table's alternate interpretation.
                        >
                        > Thanks,
                        > Allen
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Andrew <drew0500@...> wrote:
                        >> Thanks for the research -
                        >> I dislike "unofficial" in any title, even if it's quoting a person involved in the book. We have to
                        >> go by the book and 'official' errata put out by the publisher. I can't justify pushing for a change
                        >> for an unofficial ruling this late in the cycle.
                        >>
                        >> However, you can open a Feature Request for it. What you're asking involves either a Code Change
                        >> (Which at this point would be a NEW TAG Request) or a Data Change. It won't likely get addressed
                        >> till after the 6.0 release though. Beta phase and rapidly moving towards our final release.
                        >>
                        >> I'll take into consideration such things, when an object's design is unclear - like a bad
                        >> abbreviation, or wording that makes it difficult to determine intent.
                        >>
                        >> Cheers,
                        >
                        >
                        > ------------------------------------
                        >
                        > Related Lists
                        > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                        > PCGen's Mailing Lists and Links: http://wiki.pcgen.org/Mailing_Lists_and_PCGen_Links
                        > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                        > PCGen's JIRA Tracker: http://jira.pcgen.org
                        >
                        >
                        > PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                        > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                        >
                        > PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                        > (for new official data source development)
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >

                        --
                        Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
                        Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
                        Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
                        Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
                        Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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