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[pcgen] pathfinder Tengu swords

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  • Saxum Caribetum
    PCGen 5.17.10 and 5.17.16 Tengu are proficient with all swords... As implemented, exotic swords like Elven Curve Blade and Two-Bladed sword are fully
    Message 1 of 7 , Jul 28, 2012
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      PCGen 5.17.10 and 5.17.16
      Tengu are proficient with all swords...
      As implemented, exotic swords like "Elven Curve Blade " and Two-Bladed
      sword are fully proficient as if possessing the Exotic Proficiency, but
      Bastard Sword only gains Martial Proficiency (2-handed use).
      The Tengu is not being granted the expected Exotic 1-handed
      proficiency... and PCGen won't equip it for 1-handed use.

      --
      Neil Taylor "Creo Imaginem Mente"
      ArM Code 1.5 5++ Ca++ R++p H++ ?L Y(96) T(5)- SG+++ G++++ P++ HoH(Ma++ Q+ Hg+) Fz(E)++ C++ :-) Cd++
      Saga site at http://homepage.ntlworld.com/saxum.caribetum/
      Sub Rosa Ars Magica zine - http://www.subrosamagazine.org/
    • Andrew
      Hi, Is the Paizo official word that they gain Exotic use and not just proficiency with the Bastard Sword? Proficiency means no -4 to hit, Exotic means they may
      Message 2 of 7 , Jul 28, 2012
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        Hi,

        Is the Paizo official word that they gain Exotic use and not just proficiency with the Bastard Sword?

        Proficiency means no -4 to hit, Exotic means they may use it one-handed. I'd like an official ruling
        from the paizo folks before I start altering how things work.

        On 7/28/2012 10:18 AM, Saxum Caribetum wrote:
        > PCGen 5.17.10 and 5.17.16
        > Tengu are proficient with all swords...
        > As implemented, exotic swords like "Elven Curve Blade " and Two-Bladed
        > sword are fully proficient as if possessing the Exotic Proficiency, but
        > Bastard Sword only gains Martial Proficiency (2-handed use).
        > The Tengu is not being granted the expected Exotic 1-handed
        > proficiency... and PCGen won't equip it for 1-handed use.
        >

        --
        Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
        Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
        Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
        Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
        Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Saxum Caribetum
        ... I ve searched the Paizo forums, and most answers are non-staff. Several point out that it includes several Exotic Weapons anyway. Re questions on Sawtooth
        Message 3 of 7 , Jul 28, 2012
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          On 28/07/2012 18:42, Andrew wrote:
          > Hi,
          >
          > Is the Paizo official word that they gain Exotic use and not just proficiency with the Bastard Sword?
          >
          > Proficiency means no -4 to hit, Exotic means they may use it one-handed. I'd like an official ruling
          > from the paizo folks before I start altering how things work.
          >
          > On 7/28/2012 10:18 AM, Saxum Caribetum wrote:
          >> PCGen 5.17.10 and 5.17.16
          >> Tengu are proficient with all swords...
          >> As implemented, exotic swords like "Elven Curve Blade " and Two-Bladed
          >> sword are fully proficient as if possessing the Exotic Proficiency, but
          >> Bastard Sword only gains Martial Proficiency (2-handed use).
          >> The Tengu is not being granted the expected Exotic 1-handed
          >> proficiency... and PCGen won't equip it for 1-handed use.
          >>
          I've searched the Paizo forums, and most answers are non-staff.
          Several point out that it includes several Exotic Weapons anyway.
          Re questions on Sawtooth Sabre and Temple Sword, they point out the
          inclusivity of the Bestiary list re the original Fighter Blades list,
          and that the expanded Blades list should be assumed if you use
          supplements such as Ultimate Combat.

          The most pertinent observation points to a related question in the FAQ,
          which I copy here:

          >
          > Cleric: Does a cleric, whose deity's favored weapon is the bastard
          > sword, receive free martial or exotic weapon proficiency with the
          > sword? (Core Rulebook, page 39 and 149)
          >
          > Since the bastard sword is listed as an exotic weapon, he receives the
          > Exotic Weapon proficiency with the weapon, allowing him to use it
          > one-handed.
          >
          > —Jason Bulmahn, 07/08/11

          the poster then infers that any weapon granted to the Tengu is covered
          by this same broad answer, and that Exotic Proficiency should be granted
          all round.

          *****************************************

          A secondary question:
          if you *should* decide to take the conservative interpretation, how can
          a user of PCGen amend Swordtrained so it works for them as Exotic?
          In particular is there a sensible way to do it which will persist across
          updates to the PCGen program and its supplied data files?

          --
          Neil Taylor "Creo Imaginem Mente"
          ArM Code 1.5 5++ Ca++ R++p H++ ?L Y(96) T(5)- SG+++ G++++ P++ HoH(Ma++ Q+ Hg+) Fz(E)++ C++ :-) Cd++
          Saga site at http://homepage.ntlworld.com/saxum.caribetum/
          Sub Rosa Ars Magica zine - http://www.subrosamagazine.org/
        • Andrew
          Hi, The one handed is keyed to only respond to someone with the actual Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Last I checked). AUTO:FEAT|Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Bastard
          Message 4 of 7 , Jul 28, 2012
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            Hi,

            The one handed is keyed to only respond to someone with the actual Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Last I
            checked).

            AUTO:FEAT|Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Bastard (Sword))

            in the Tengu Ability would fix the issue.

            On 7/28/2012 12:22 PM, Saxum Caribetum wrote:
            > On 28/07/2012 18:42, Andrew wrote:
            >> Hi,
            >>
            >> Is the Paizo official word that they gain Exotic use and not just proficiency with the Bastard Sword?
            >>
            >> Proficiency means no -4 to hit, Exotic means they may use it one-handed. I'd like an official ruling
            >> from the paizo folks before I start altering how things work.
            >>
            >> On 7/28/2012 10:18 AM, Saxum Caribetum wrote:
            >>> PCGen 5.17.10 and 5.17.16
            >>> Tengu are proficient with all swords...
            >>> As implemented, exotic swords like "Elven Curve Blade " and Two-Bladed
            >>> sword are fully proficient as if possessing the Exotic Proficiency, but
            >>> Bastard Sword only gains Martial Proficiency (2-handed use).
            >>> The Tengu is not being granted the expected Exotic 1-handed
            >>> proficiency... and PCGen won't equip it for 1-handed use.
            >>>
            > I've searched the Paizo forums, and most answers are non-staff.
            > Several point out that it includes several Exotic Weapons anyway.
            > Re questions on Sawtooth Sabre and Temple Sword, they point out the
            > inclusivity of the Bestiary list re the original Fighter Blades list,
            > and that the expanded Blades list should be assumed if you use
            > supplements such as Ultimate Combat.
            >
            > The most pertinent observation points to a related question in the FAQ,
            > which I copy here:
            >
            >> Cleric: Does a cleric, whose deity's favored weapon is the bastard
            >> sword, receive free martial or exotic weapon proficiency with the
            >> sword? (Core Rulebook, page 39 and 149)
            >>
            >> Since the bastard sword is listed as an exotic weapon, he receives the
            >> Exotic Weapon proficiency with the weapon, allowing him to use it
            >> one-handed.
            >>
            >> �Jason Bulmahn, 07/08/11
            > the poster then infers that any weapon granted to the Tengu is covered
            > by this same broad answer, and that Exotic Proficiency should be granted
            > all round.
            >
            > *****************************************
            >
            > A secondary question:
            > if you *should* decide to take the conservative interpretation, how can
            > a user of PCGen amend Swordtrained so it works for them as Exotic?
            > In particular is there a sensible way to do it which will persist across
            > updates to the PCGen program and its supplied data files?
            >

            --
            Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
            Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
            Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
            Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
            Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Saxum Caribetum
            ... ok... thanks. But if I edited the main PCGen PFRPG files the change would be lost with each update of PCGen. Is there a stable place to plant such tweaks
            Message 5 of 7 , Jul 29, 2012
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              On 28/07/2012 21:13, Andrew wrote:
              > Hi,
              >
              > The one handed is keyed to only respond to someone with the actual Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Last I
              > checked).
              >
              > AUTO:FEAT|Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Bastard (Sword))
              >
              > in the Tengu Ability would fix the issue.

              ok... thanks.

              But if I edited the main PCGen PFRPG files the change would be lost with
              each update of PCGen.
              Is there a stable place to plant such tweaks and modifications?

              (A similar tweak is to replace Pharasma's Death Domain with the
              "Good-aligned Death Domain" fro the Paizo blog. How do I make a tweak to
              Pharasma "stick"?)
              >
              > On 7/28/2012 12:22 PM, Saxum Caribetum wrote:
              >> On 28/07/2012 18:42, Andrew wrote:
              >>> Hi,
              >>>
              >>> Is the Paizo official word that they gain Exotic use and not just proficiency with the Bastard Sword?
              >>>
              >>> Proficiency means no -4 to hit, Exotic means they may use it one-handed. I'd like an official ruling
              >>> from the paizo folks before I start altering how things work.
              >>>
              >>> On 7/28/2012 10:18 AM, Saxum Caribetum wrote:
              >>>> PCGen 5.17.10 and 5.17.16
              >>>> Tengu are proficient with all swords...
              >>>> As implemented, exotic swords like "Elven Curve Blade " and Two-Bladed
              >>>> sword are fully proficient as if possessing the Exotic Proficiency, but
              >>>> Bastard Sword only gains Martial Proficiency (2-handed use).
              >>>> The Tengu is not being granted the expected Exotic 1-handed
              >>>> proficiency... and PCGen won't equip it for 1-handed use.
              >>>>
              >> I've searched the Paizo forums, and most answers are non-staff.
              >> Several point out that it includes several Exotic Weapons anyway.
              >> Re questions on Sawtooth Sabre and Temple Sword, they point out the
              >> inclusivity of the Bestiary list re the original Fighter Blades list,
              >> and that the expanded Blades list should be assumed if you use
              >> supplements such as Ultimate Combat.
              >>
              >> The most pertinent observation points to a related question in the FAQ,
              >> which I copy here:
              >>
              >>> Cleric: Does a cleric, whose deity's favored weapon is the bastard
              >>> sword, receive free martial or exotic weapon proficiency with the
              >>> sword? (Core Rulebook, page 39 and 149)
              >>>
              >>> Since the bastard sword is listed as an exotic weapon, he receives the
              >>> Exotic Weapon proficiency with the weapon, allowing him to use it
              >>> one-handed.
              >>>
              >>> —Jason Bulmahn, 07/08/11
              >> the poster then infers that any weapon granted to the Tengu is covered
              >> by this same broad answer, and that Exotic Proficiency should be granted
              >> all round.
              >>
              >> *****************************************
              >>
              >> A secondary question:
              >> if you *should* decide to take the conservative interpretation, how can
              >> a user of PCGen amend Swordtrained so it works for them as Exotic?
              >> In particular is there a sensible way to do it which will persist across
              >> updates to the PCGen program and its supplied data files?
              >>


              --
              Neil Taylor "Creo Imaginem Mente"
              ArM Code 1.5 5++ Ca++ R++p H++ ?L Y(96) T(5)- SG+++ G++++ P++ HoH(Ma++ Q+ Hg+) Fz(E)++ C++ :-) Cd++
              Saga site at http://homepage.ntlworld.com/saxum.caribetum/
              Sub Rosa Ars Magica zine - http://www.subrosamagazine.org/
            • Paul
              ... Saxum check out the following sections of the documents http://pcgen.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html PCC and List Files Explained (start here first)
              Message 6 of 7 , Jul 29, 2012
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                --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Saxum Caribetum <saxum.caribetum@...> wrote:
                >
                > On 28/07/2012 21:13, Andrew wrote:
                > > Hi,
                > >
                > > The one handed is keyed to only respond to someone with the actual Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Last I
                > > checked).
                > >
                > > AUTO:FEAT|Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Bastard (Sword))
                > >
                > > in the Tengu Ability would fix the issue.
                >
                > ok... thanks.
                >
                > But if I edited the main PCGen PFRPG files the change would be lost with
                > each update of PCGen.
                > Is there a stable place to plant such tweaks and modifications?
                >
                > (A similar tweak is to replace Pharasma's Death Domain with the
                > "Good-aligned Death Domain" fro the Paizo blog. How do I make a tweak to
                > Pharasma "stick"?)

                Saxum check out the following sections of the documents
                http://pcgen.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html


                PCC and List Files Explained (start here first)
                LST File Class (required for making a homeset that modifies existing sets)

                And under List File Tag Index read the ".MOD" tag.

                Then ask questions on creating your homebrew set that uses .MOD to alter either the Tengu (or something more exotic that you choose to) do on the http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/ group
              • Saxum Caribetum
                ... clearest explanation from the forums is the following: Bastard Sword is listed in PFRPG Core book as an Exotic 1-Handed Weapon. That is its type just as
                Message 7 of 7 , Aug 1 2:02 PM
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                  On 28/07/2012 20:22, Saxum Caribetum wrote:
                  > On 28/07/2012 18:42, Andrew wrote:
                  >> Hi,
                  >>
                  >> Is the Paizo official word that they gain Exotic use and not just
                  >> proficiency with the Bastard Sword?
                  clearest explanation from the forums is the following:

                  Bastard Sword is listed in PFRPG Core book as an Exotic 1-Handed Weapon.
                  That is its type just as much as an Elven Curve Blade.

                  In the descriptive text, which does not define its type, the text says
                  that"A character can use a bastard sword two-handed as a martial
                  weapon". That's just a special rule like "can be used to trip".

                  Thus: Proficiency in Bastard Sword is always the Exotic Weapon Feat.

                  The special ability of the sword means that if instead you have Martial
                  Weapon Proficiency, then you can wield the sword two-handed and used the
                  special ability of the sword instead.
                  (A Medium or Heavy 1H weapon can be wielded 2H)


                  not official, but quoting clearly directly from the core rules.


                  --
                  Neil Taylor "Creo Imaginem Mente"
                  ArM Code 1.5 5++ Ca++ R++p H++ ?L Y(96) T(5)- SG+++ G++++ P++ HoH(Ma++ Q+ Hg+) Fz(E)++ C++ :-) Cd++
                  Saga site at http://homepage.ntlworld.com/saxum.caribetum/
                  Sub Rosa Ars Magica zine - http://www.subrosamagazine.org/
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