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Re: [pcgen] Re: Darkwood Buckler

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  • Eric C Smith
    Hi pfsgamer, What are your referring to when you say Guide ? Core, APG, and ISP are obvious but Guide, by itself, means nothing . . . Maredudd
    Message 1 of 23 , Mar 7, 2012
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      Hi pfsgamer,

      What are your referring to when you say "Guide"?

      Core, APG, and ISP are obvious but Guide, by itself, means nothing . . .

      Maredudd

      On Mar 7, 2012, at 1:58 PM, pfsgamer wrote:

      > Thanks, Doug. Found & deleted the Ultimate Combat folder.
      >
      > Darkwood Buckler stills damages skills.
      > I agree it should not bash, but that is ignorable.
      > Skills failing - not ignorable... :-)
      >
      > Added Inner Sea Primer to pick up the Azlanti language. So 4 sources: Core, APG, Guide, ISP. It may even load w/o ISP once the language has been selected, I don't know.
      >
      > She is level 6 so dropping these would be problematic to the rest of her feats & traits... :-)
    • pfsgamer
      Guide to Organized Play 4.0 -- Required for PFS! :-)
      Message 2 of 23 , Mar 7, 2012
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        Guide to Organized Play 4.0 -- Required for PFS! :-)

        --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Eric C Smith <maredudd@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi pfsgamer,
        >
        > What are your referring to when you say "Guide"?
        >
        > Core, APG, and ISP are obvious but Guide, by itself, means nothing . . .
        >
        > Maredudd
        >
        > On Mar 7, 2012, at 1:58 PM, pfsgamer wrote:
        >
        > > Thanks, Doug. Found & deleted the Ultimate Combat folder.
        > >
        > > Darkwood Buckler stills damages skills.
        > > I agree it should not bash, but that is ignorable.
        > > Skills failing - not ignorable... :-)
        > >
        > > Added Inner Sea Primer to pick up the Azlanti language. So 4 sources: Core, APG, Guide, ISP. It may even load w/o ISP once the language has been selected, I don't know.
        > >
        > > She is level 6 so dropping these would be problematic to the rest of her feats & traits... :-)
        >
      • Distant Scholar
        pfsgamer sent me the character file, and I discovered the problem: equipping the darkwood buckler is just enough to put the character into Medium encumbrance.
        Message 3 of 23 , Mar 7, 2012
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          pfsgamer sent me the character file, and I discovered the problem: equipping the darkwood buckler is just enough to put the character into Medium encumbrance.

          Yes, the character was within 2.5 lbs of the Medium encumbrance category.

          DS/DL

          --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "pfsgamer" <losttrader2000@...> wrote:
          >
          > PCGen 5.1.7.10 w/ PFS Core, APG, Guide 4.0, and Ultimate Combat.
          > The Darkwood Buckler is from the Core rulebook.
          >
          > Thanks for looking into this. The only reason the character got the thing was because she was told it did not produce any penalties, and did not interfere with the bow.
          >
          > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Doug Limmer <adventure@> wrote:
          >
          > > @pfsgamer: What version of PCGen are you using, and what datasets are
          > > you loading? (If you gave this information earlier, I've lost it.)
          > >
          > > DS/DL
          > >
          > > On 3/6/2012 12:37 PM, Stefan Radermacher wrote:
          > > >
          > > > On 06.03.2012 18:03, pfsgamer wrote:
          > > > > I noticed today that an archer (rogue) using a buckler
          > > > > (non-proficient) has her skills trashed. This was NOT the case
          > > > > before, and does not make sense. Especially since I was told a rogue
          > > > > can equip a buckler without penalty. The AC check should be 0. Why is
          > > > > it suddenly affecting SKILLs?
          > > > >
          > > > > from the book: "You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty while
          > > > > carrying it."
          > > >
          > > > That means you don't get penalties to attack when using the bow, which
          > > > has nothing to do with using skills. The armor check penalty still
          > > > applies to alls Strength- and Dexterity-based skills. Such is the cost
          > > > for using it non-proficiently.
          > > >
          > > > Stefan.
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          >
        • pfsgamer
          Oh my! You are correct and I should have caught that - I am frequently swapping equipment because of the load limit. Thank you! Sorry for the fuss!
          Message 4 of 23 , Mar 7, 2012
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            Oh my! You are correct and I should have caught that - I am frequently swapping equipment because of the load limit.
            Thank you! Sorry for the fuss!

            --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Distant Scholar" <adventure@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            >
            > pfsgamer sent me the character file, and I discovered the problem: equipping the darkwood buckler is just enough to put the character into Medium encumbrance.
            >
            > Yes, the character was within 2.5 lbs of the Medium encumbrance category.
            >
            > DS/DL
            >
            > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "pfsgamer" <losttrader2000@> wrote:
            > >
            > > PCGen 5.1.7.10 w/ PFS Core, APG, Guide 4.0, and Ultimate Combat.
            > > The Darkwood Buckler is from the Core rulebook.
            > >
            > > Thanks for looking into this. The only reason the character got the thing was because she was told it did not produce any penalties, and did not interfere with the bow.
            > >
            > > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Doug Limmer <adventure@> wrote:
            > >
            > > > @pfsgamer: What version of PCGen are you using, and what datasets are
            > > > you loading? (If you gave this information earlier, I've lost it.)
            > > >
            > > > DS/DL
            > > >
            > > > On 3/6/2012 12:37 PM, Stefan Radermacher wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > > On 06.03.2012 18:03, pfsgamer wrote:
            > > > > > I noticed today that an archer (rogue) using a buckler
            > > > > > (non-proficient) has her skills trashed. This was NOT the case
            > > > > > before, and does not make sense. Especially since I was told a rogue
            > > > > > can equip a buckler without penalty. The AC check should be 0. Why is
            > > > > > it suddenly affecting SKILLs?
            > > > > >
            > > > > > from the book: "You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty while
            > > > > > carrying it."
            > > > >
            > > > > That means you don't get penalties to attack when using the bow, which
            > > > > has nothing to do with using skills. The armor check penalty still
            > > > > applies to alls Strength- and Dexterity-based skills. Such is the cost
            > > > > for using it non-proficiently.
            > > > >
            > > > > Stefan.
            > > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > >
            > >
            >
          • Paul
            PFS, make different equipment sets for different situations.
            Message 5 of 23 , Mar 7, 2012
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              PFS, make different equipment sets for different situations.

              --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "pfsgamer" <losttrader2000@...> wrote:
              >
              > Oh my! You are correct and I should have caught that - I am frequently swapping equipment because of the load limit.
              > Thank you! Sorry for the fuss!
              >
              > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Distant Scholar" <adventure@> wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > pfsgamer sent me the character file, and I discovered the problem: equipping the darkwood buckler is just enough to put the character into Medium encumbrance.
              > >
              > > Yes, the character was within 2.5 lbs of the Medium encumbrance category.
              > >
              > > DS/DL
              > >
              > > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "pfsgamer" <losttrader2000@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > PCGen 5.1.7.10 w/ PFS Core, APG, Guide 4.0, and Ultimate Combat.
              > > > The Darkwood Buckler is from the Core rulebook.
              > > >
              > > > Thanks for looking into this. The only reason the character got the thing was because she was told it did not produce any penalties, and did not interfere with the bow.
              > > >
              > > > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Doug Limmer <adventure@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > > @pfsgamer: What version of PCGen are you using, and what datasets are
              > > > > you loading? (If you gave this information earlier, I've lost it.)
              > > > >
              > > > > DS/DL
              > > > >
              > > > > On 3/6/2012 12:37 PM, Stefan Radermacher wrote:
              > > > > >
              > > > > > On 06.03.2012 18:03, pfsgamer wrote:
              > > > > > > I noticed today that an archer (rogue) using a buckler
              > > > > > > (non-proficient) has her skills trashed. This was NOT the case
              > > > > > > before, and does not make sense. Especially since I was told a rogue
              > > > > > > can equip a buckler without penalty. The AC check should be 0. Why is
              > > > > > > it suddenly affecting SKILLs?
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > from the book: "You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty while
              > > > > > > carrying it."
              > > > > >
              > > > > > That means you don't get penalties to attack when using the bow, which
              > > > > > has nothing to do with using skills. The armor check penalty still
              > > > > > applies to alls Strength- and Dexterity-based skills. Such is the cost
              > > > > > for using it non-proficiently.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Stefan.
              > > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > > > >
              > > >
              > >
              >
            • FerretDave
              Perhaps we want the load display enhancing to make this sort of thing more obvious? What if, when you add a piece of equipment, if this pushes you from light
              Message 6 of 23 , Mar 8, 2012
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                Perhaps we want the load display enhancing to make this sort of thing more obvious?

                What if, when you add a piece of equipment, if this pushes you from light to medium, or medium to heavy, a dialog pops up warning you?

                A similar 'congrats!' on removing equipment and dropping a level would be amusing too :-)

                Cheers
                D

                --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <nylanfs@...> wrote:
                >
                > PFS, make different equipment sets for different situations.
                >
                > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "pfsgamer" <losttrader2000@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Oh my! You are correct and I should have caught that - I am frequently swapping equipment because of the load limit.
                > > Thank you! Sorry for the fuss!
                > >
                > > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Distant Scholar" <adventure@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > pfsgamer sent me the character file, and I discovered the problem: equipping the darkwood buckler is just enough to put the character into Medium encumbrance.
                > > >
                > > > Yes, the character was within 2.5 lbs of the Medium encumbrance category.
                > > >
                > > > DS/DL
                > > >
                > > > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "pfsgamer" <losttrader2000@> wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > PCGen 5.1.7.10 w/ PFS Core, APG, Guide 4.0, and Ultimate Combat.
                > > > > The Darkwood Buckler is from the Core rulebook.
                > > > >
                > > > > Thanks for looking into this. The only reason the character got the thing was because she was told it did not produce any penalties, and did not interfere with the bow.
                > > > >
                > > > > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Doug Limmer <adventure@> wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > > @pfsgamer: What version of PCGen are you using, and what datasets are
                > > > > > you loading? (If you gave this information earlier, I've lost it.)
                > > > > >
                > > > > > DS/DL
                > > > > >
                > > > > > On 3/6/2012 12:37 PM, Stefan Radermacher wrote:
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > On 06.03.2012 18:03, pfsgamer wrote:
                > > > > > > > I noticed today that an archer (rogue) using a buckler
                > > > > > > > (non-proficient) has her skills trashed. This was NOT the case
                > > > > > > > before, and does not make sense. Especially since I was told a rogue
                > > > > > > > can equip a buckler without penalty. The AC check should be 0. Why is
                > > > > > > > it suddenly affecting SKILLs?
                > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > from the book: "You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty while
                > > > > > > > carrying it."
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > That means you don't get penalties to attack when using the bow, which
                > > > > > > has nothing to do with using skills. The armor check penalty still
                > > > > > > applies to alls Strength- and Dexterity-based skills. Such is the cost
                > > > > > > for using it non-proficiently.
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > Stefan.
                > > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > > > > >
                > > > >
                > > >
                > >
                >
              • Andrew
                In at least the pdf version, you get an encumbrance box that should declare your encumbrance load - it appears under the Base Attack Bonus box. It also only
                Message 7 of 23 , Mar 8, 2012
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                  In at least the pdf version, you get an encumbrance box that should declare your encumbrance load -
                  it appears under the Base Attack Bonus box. It also only appears if the character is encumbered.

                  I'm not sure I'd appreciate a pop up box while I'm work with the Character. I'd be more inclined to
                  find other methods, like turning the Weight Yellow for Medium Load, Red for Heavy Load, or
                  increasing the size of the font when it reaches an encumbered level.

                  Something Visually Eye Catching. We already have enough pop up dialogs. If you want to go a little
                  further we could add a message to the TO DO box, "Verify your equipment, your character is
                  encumbered* or something akin. We have so many new avenues, like that summary screen has room for a
                  Change to Draw Attention to being encumbered.

                  Cheers,


                  On 3/8/2012 5:33 AM, FerretDave wrote:
                  > Perhaps we want the load display enhancing to make this sort of thing more obvious?
                  >
                  > What if, when you add a piece of equipment, if this pushes you from light to medium, or medium to heavy, a dialog pops up warning you?
                  >
                  > A similar 'congrats!' on removing equipment and dropping a level would be amusing too :-)
                  >
                  > Cheers
                  > D
                  >
                  > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <nylanfs@...> wrote:
                  >> PFS, make different equipment sets for different situations.
                  >>
                  >> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "pfsgamer" <losttrader2000@> wrote:
                  >>> Oh my! You are correct and I should have caught that - I am frequently swapping equipment because of the load limit.
                  >>> Thank you! Sorry for the fuss!
                  >>>
                  >>> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Distant Scholar" <adventure@> wrote:
                  >>>>
                  >>>> pfsgamer sent me the character file, and I discovered the problem: equipping the darkwood buckler is just enough to put the character into Medium encumbrance.
                  >>>>
                  >>>> Yes, the character was within 2.5 lbs of the Medium encumbrance category.
                  >>>>
                  >>>> DS/DL
                  >>>>
                  >>>> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "pfsgamer" <losttrader2000@> wrote:
                  >>>>> PCGen 5.1.7.10 w/ PFS Core, APG, Guide 4.0, and Ultimate Combat.
                  >>>>> The Darkwood Buckler is from the Core rulebook.
                  >>>>>
                  >>>>> Thanks for looking into this. The only reason the character got the thing was because she was told it did not produce any penalties, and did not interfere with the bow.
                  >>>>>
                  >>>>> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Doug Limmer <adventure@> wrote:
                  >>>>>
                  >>>>>> @pfsgamer: What version of PCGen are you using, and what datasets are
                  >>>>>> you loading? (If you gave this information earlier, I've lost it.)
                  >>>>>>
                  >>>>>> DS/DL
                  >>>>>>
                  >>>>>> On 3/6/2012 12:37 PM, Stefan Radermacher wrote:
                  >>>>>>> On 06.03.2012 18:03, pfsgamer wrote:
                  >>>>>>>> I noticed today that an archer (rogue) using a buckler
                  >>>>>>>> (non-proficient) has her skills trashed. This was NOT the case
                  >>>>>>>> before, and does not make sense. Especially since I was told a rogue
                  >>>>>>>> can equip a buckler without penalty. The AC check should be 0. Why is
                  >>>>>>>> it suddenly affecting SKILLs?
                  >>>>>>>>
                  >>>>>>>> from the book: "You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty while
                  >>>>>>>> carrying it."
                  >>>>>>> That means you don't get penalties to attack when using the bow, which
                  >>>>>>> has nothing to do with using skills. The armor check penalty still
                  >>>>>>> applies to alls Strength- and Dexterity-based skills. Such is the cost
                  >>>>>>> for using it non-proficiently.
                  >>>>>>>
                  >>>>>>> Stefan.
                  >>>>>>>
                  >>>>>>
                  >>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >>>>>>
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > Related Lists
                  > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                  > PCGen's Mailing Lists and Links: http://wiki.pcgen.org/Mailing_Lists_and_PCGen_Links
                  > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                  > PCGen's JIRA Tracker: http://jira.pcgen.org
                  >
                  >
                  > PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                  > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                  >
                  > PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                  > (for new official data source development)
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >

                  --
                  Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
                  Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
                  Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
                  Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
                  Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • UnclePete
                  Encumbrance information is already displayed in the panel that shows Equipment Info as LOAD including the encumbrance levels, which is very useful. Colour
                  Message 8 of 23 , Mar 8, 2012
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                    Encumbrance information is already displayed in the panel that shows
                    Equipment Info as 'LOAD' including the encumbrance levels, which is very
                    useful. Colour coding it may be useful, but I can't see any great benefit.

                    This info is really only useful when changing a character and it's being
                    displayed where it needs to be, so I'd be a bit reluctant to see my
                    character sheet further cluttered with stuff I don't need to refer to
                    constantly during a gaming session.

                    Pete


                    On 03/09/2012 02:26 AM, Andrew wrote:
                    >
                    > In at least the pdf version, you get an encumbrance box that should
                    > declare your encumbrance load -
                    > it appears under the Base Attack Bonus box. It also only appears if
                    > the character is encumbered.
                    >
                    > I'm not sure I'd appreciate a pop up box while I'm work with the
                    > Character. I'd be more inclined to
                    > find other methods, like turning the Weight Yellow for Medium Load,
                    > Red for Heavy Load, or
                    > increasing the size of the font when it reaches an encumbered level.
                    >
                    > Something Visually Eye Catching. We already have enough pop up
                    > dialogs. If you want to go a little
                    > further we could add a message to the TO DO box, "Verify your
                    > equipment, your character is
                    > encumbered* or something akin. We have so many new avenues, like that
                    > summary screen has room for a
                    > Change to Draw Attention to being encumbered.
                    >
                    > Cheers,
                    >
                    > On 3/8/2012 5:33 AM, FerretDave wrote:
                    > > Perhaps we want the load display enhancing to make this sort of
                    > thing more obvious?
                    > >
                    > > What if, when you add a piece of equipment, if this pushes you from
                    > light to medium, or medium to heavy, a dialog pops up warning you?
                    > >
                    > > A similar 'congrats!' on removing equipment and dropping a level
                    > would be amusing too :-)
                    > >
                    > > Cheers
                    > > D
                    > >
                    > > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com <mailto:pcgen%40yahoogroups.com>,
                    > "Paul" <nylanfs@...> wrote:
                    > >> PFS, make different equipment sets for different situations.
                    > >>
                    > >> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com <mailto:pcgen%40yahoogroups.com>,
                    > "pfsgamer" <losttrader2000@> wrote:
                    > >>> Oh my! You are correct and I should have caught that - I am
                    > frequently swapping equipment because of the load limit.
                    > >>> Thank you! Sorry for the fuss!
                    > >>>
                    > >>> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com <mailto:pcgen%40yahoogroups.com>,
                    > "Distant Scholar" <adventure@> wrote:
                    > >>>>
                    > >>>> pfsgamer sent me the character file, and I discovered the
                    > problem: equipping the darkwood buckler is just enough to put the
                    > character into Medium encumbrance.
                    > >>>>
                    > >>>> Yes, the character was within 2.5 lbs of the Medium encumbrance
                    > category.
                    > >>>>
                    > >>>> DS/DL
                    > >>>>
                    > >>>> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com <mailto:pcgen%40yahoogroups.com>,
                    > "pfsgamer" <losttrader2000@> wrote:
                    > >>>>> PCGen 5.1.7.10 w/ PFS Core, APG, Guide 4.0, and Ultimate Combat.
                    > >>>>> The Darkwood Buckler is from the Core rulebook.
                    > >>>>>
                    > >>>>> Thanks for looking into this. The only reason the character got
                    > the thing was because she was told it did not produce any penalties,
                    > and did not interfere with the bow.
                    > >>>>>
                    > >>>>> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com <mailto:pcgen%40yahoogroups.com>,
                    > Doug Limmer <adventure@> wrote:
                    > >>>>>
                    > >>>>>> @pfsgamer: What version of PCGen are you using, and what
                    > datasets are
                    > >>>>>> you loading? (If you gave this information earlier, I've lost it.)
                    > >>>>>>
                    > >>>>>> DS/DL
                    > >>>>>>
                    > >>>>>> On 3/6/2012 12:37 PM, Stefan Radermacher wrote:
                    > >>>>>>> On 06.03.2012 18:03, pfsgamer wrote:
                    > >>>>>>>> I noticed today that an archer (rogue) using a buckler
                    > >>>>>>>> (non-proficient) has her skills trashed. This was NOT the case
                    > >>>>>>>> before, and does not make sense. Especially since I was told
                    > a rogue
                    > >>>>>>>> can equip a buckler without penalty. The AC check should be
                    > 0. Why is
                    > >>>>>>>> it suddenly affecting SKILLs?
                    > >>>>>>>>
                    > >>>>>>>> from the book: "You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty
                    > while
                    > >>>>>>>> carrying it."
                    > >>>>>>> That means you don't get penalties to attack when using the
                    > bow, which
                    > >>>>>>> has nothing to do with using skills. The armor check penalty still
                    > >>>>>>> applies to alls Strength- and Dexterity-based skills. Such is
                    > the cost
                    > >>>>>>> for using it non-proficiently.
                    > >>>>>>>
                    > >>>>>>> Stefan.
                    > >>>>>>>
                    > >>>>>>
                    > >>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >>>>>>
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > ------------------------------------
                    > >
                    > > Related Lists
                    > > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                    > > PCGen's Mailing Lists and Links:
                    > http://wiki.pcgen.org/Mailing_Lists_and_PCGen_Links
                    > > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                    > > PCGen's JIRA Tracker: http://jira.pcgen.org
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > PCGen List File Help:
                    > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                    > > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                    > >
                    > > PCGen Experimental:
                    > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                    > > (for new official data source development)
                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    > --
                    > Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
                    > Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
                    > Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
                    > Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
                    > Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • FerretDave
                    Greetings, ... You re not the first person to overlook encumberance being the cause of odd skill penalties, so making this more obvious in the GUI may be
                    Message 9 of 23 , Mar 9, 2012
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                      Greetings,

                      --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, UnclePete <uncle@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Encumbrance information is already displayed in the panel that shows
                      > Equipment Info as 'LOAD' including the encumbrance levels, which is very
                      > useful. Colour coding it may be useful, but I can't see any great benefit.

                      You're not the first person to overlook encumberance being the cause of 'odd' skill penalties, so making this more obvious in the GUI may be helpful.

                      >
                      > This info is really only useful when changing a character

                      Though knowing during a game that adding/removing some items/loot will change your encumberance is often handy.

                      > and it's being
                      > displayed where it needs to be, so I'd be a bit reluctant to see my
                      > character sheet further cluttered with stuff I don't need to refer to

                      Encumberance is just a couple of lines on the OS, at the bottom of your equipment list is a short summary indicating weight allowances for each level.

                      > constantly during a gaming session.
                      >
                      > Pete
                      >
                      >
                      > On 03/09/2012 02:26 AM, Andrew wrote:
                      > >
                      > > In at least the pdf version, you get an encumbrance box that should
                      > > declare your encumbrance load -
                      > > it appears under the Base Attack Bonus box. It also only appears if
                      > > the character is encumbered.
                      > >
                      > > I'm not sure I'd appreciate a pop up box while I'm work with the
                      > > Character. I'd be more inclined to
                      > > find other methods, like turning the Weight Yellow for Medium Load,
                      > > Red for Heavy Load, or
                      > > increasing the size of the font when it reaches an encumbered level.
                      > >
                      > > Something Visually Eye Catching. We already have enough pop up
                      > > dialogs. If you want to go a little
                      > > further we could add a message to the TO DO box, "Verify your
                      > > equipment, your character is
                      > > encumbered* or something akin. We have so many new avenues, like that

                      I like the idea of this being in the 'TODO box'.

                      > > summary screen has room for a
                      > > Change to Draw Attention to being encumbered.
                      > >
                      > > Cheers,

                      Cheers
                      D
                      > >
                      > > On 3/8/2012 5:33 AM, FerretDave wrote:
                      > > > Perhaps we want the load display enhancing to make this sort of
                      > > thing more obvious?
                      > > >
                      > > > What if, when you add a piece of equipment, if this pushes you from
                      > > light to medium, or medium to heavy, a dialog pops up warning you?
                      > > >
                      > > > A similar 'congrats!' on removing equipment and dropping a level
                      > > would be amusing too :-)
                      > > >
                      > > > Cheers
                      > > > D
                      > > >
                      > > > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com <mailto:pcgen%40yahoogroups.com>,
                      > > "Paul" <nylanfs@> wrote:
                      > > >> PFS, make different equipment sets for different situations.
                      > > >>
                      > > >> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com <mailto:pcgen%40yahoogroups.com>,
                      > > "pfsgamer" <losttrader2000@> wrote:
                      > > >>> Oh my! You are correct and I should have caught that - I am
                      > > frequently swapping equipment because of the load limit.
                      > > >>> Thank you! Sorry for the fuss!
                      > > >>>
                      > > >>> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com <mailto:pcgen%40yahoogroups.com>,
                      > > "Distant Scholar" <adventure@> wrote:
                      > > >>>>
                      > > >>>> pfsgamer sent me the character file, and I discovered the
                      > > problem: equipping the darkwood buckler is just enough to put the
                      > > character into Medium encumbrance.
                      > > >>>>
                      > > >>>> Yes, the character was within 2.5 lbs of the Medium encumbrance
                      > > category.
                      > > >>>>
                      > > >>>> DS/DL
                      > > >>>>
                      > > >>>> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com <mailto:pcgen%40yahoogroups.com>,
                      > > "pfsgamer" <losttrader2000@> wrote:
                      > > >>>>> PCGen 5.1.7.10 w/ PFS Core, APG, Guide 4.0, and Ultimate Combat.
                      > > >>>>> The Darkwood Buckler is from the Core rulebook.
                      > > >>>>>
                      > > >>>>> Thanks for looking into this. The only reason the character got
                      > > the thing was because she was told it did not produce any penalties,
                      > > and did not interfere with the bow.
                      > > >>>>>
                      > > >>>>> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com <mailto:pcgen%40yahoogroups.com>,
                      > > Doug Limmer <adventure@> wrote:
                      > > >>>>>
                      > > >>>>>> @pfsgamer: What version of PCGen are you using, and what
                      > > datasets are
                      > > >>>>>> you loading? (If you gave this information earlier, I've lost it.)
                      > > >>>>>>
                      > > >>>>>> DS/DL
                      > > >>>>>>
                      > > >>>>>> On 3/6/2012 12:37 PM, Stefan Radermacher wrote:
                      > > >>>>>>> On 06.03.2012 18:03, pfsgamer wrote:
                      > > >>>>>>>> I noticed today that an archer (rogue) using a buckler
                      > > >>>>>>>> (non-proficient) has her skills trashed. This was NOT the case
                      > > >>>>>>>> before, and does not make sense. Especially since I was told
                      > > a rogue
                      > > >>>>>>>> can equip a buckler without penalty. The AC check should be
                      > > 0. Why is
                      > > >>>>>>>> it suddenly affecting SKILLs?
                      > > >>>>>>>>
                      > > >>>>>>>> from the book: "You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty
                      > > while
                      > > >>>>>>>> carrying it."
                      > > >>>>>>> That means you don't get penalties to attack when using the
                      > > bow, which
                      > > >>>>>>> has nothing to do with using skills. The armor check penalty still
                      > > >>>>>>> applies to alls Strength- and Dexterity-based skills. Such is
                      > > the cost
                      > > >>>>>>> for using it non-proficiently.
                      > > >>>>>>>
                      > > >>>>>>> Stefan.
                      > > >>>>>>>
                      > > >>>>>>
                      > > >>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > > >>>>>>
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > ------------------------------------
                      > > >
                      > > > Related Lists
                      > > > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                      > > > PCGen's Mailing Lists and Links:
                      > > http://wiki.pcgen.org/Mailing_Lists_and_PCGen_Links
                      > > > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                      > > > PCGen's JIRA Tracker: http://jira.pcgen.org
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > PCGen List File Help:
                      > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                      > > > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                      > > >
                      > > > PCGen Experimental:
                      > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                      > > > (for new official data source development)
                      > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > --
                      > > Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
                      > > Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
                      > > Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
                      > > Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
                      > > Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"
                      > >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                    • pfsgamer
                      I probably should mention that I do tend to glance at the total weight -- but for some reason the font in PCGen window gets cut off... and the 6 truly looked
                      Message 10 of 23 , Mar 10, 2012
                      • 0 Attachment
                        I probably should mention that I do tend to glance at the total weight -- but for some reason the font in PCGen window gets cut off... and the 6 truly looked like 5, which would have been ok.

                        Did not notice that IGHT changed to EDIUM.
                        Have not investigated the font display as it has not been a priority....

                        Curious: is selective BOLD possible in this area, for when encumbrance changes? Just on certain words/numbers.


                        --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "FerretDave" <ferret.griffin@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Greetings,
                        >
                        > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, UnclePete <uncle@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Encumbrance information is already displayed in the panel that shows
                        > > Equipment Info as 'LOAD' including the encumbrance levels, which is very
                        > > useful. Colour coding it may be useful, but I can't see any great benefit.
                        >
                        > You're not the first person to overlook encumberance being the cause of 'odd' skill penalties, so making this more obvious in the GUI may be helpful.
                        >
                        > >
                        > > This info is really only useful when changing a character
                        >
                        > Though knowing during a game that adding/removing some items/loot will change your encumberance is often handy.
                        >
                        > > and it's being
                        > > displayed where it needs to be, so I'd be a bit reluctant to see my
                        > > character sheet further cluttered with stuff I don't need to refer to
                        >
                        > Encumberance is just a couple of lines on the OS, at the bottom of your equipment list is a short summary indicating weight allowances for each level.
                        >
                        > > constantly during a gaming session.
                        > >
                        > > Pete
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > On 03/09/2012 02:26 AM, Andrew wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > In at least the pdf version, you get an encumbrance box that should
                        > > > declare your encumbrance load -
                        > > > it appears under the Base Attack Bonus box. It also only appears if
                        > > > the character is encumbered.
                        > > >
                        > > > I'm not sure I'd appreciate a pop up box while I'm work with the
                        > > > Character. I'd be more inclined to
                        > > > find other methods, like turning the Weight Yellow for Medium Load,
                        > > > Red for Heavy Load, or
                        > > > increasing the size of the font when it reaches an encumbered level.
                        > > >
                        > > > Something Visually Eye Catching. We already have enough pop up
                        > > > dialogs. If you want to go a little
                        > > > further we could add a message to the TO DO box, "Verify your
                        > > > equipment, your character is
                        > > > encumbered* or something akin. We have so many new avenues, like that
                        >
                        > I like the idea of this being in the 'TODO box'.
                        >
                        > > > summary screen has room for a
                        > > > Change to Draw Attention to being encumbered.
                        > > >
                        > > > Cheers,
                        >
                        > Cheers
                        > D
                        > > >
                        > > > On 3/8/2012 5:33 AM, FerretDave wrote:
                        > > > > Perhaps we want the load display enhancing to make this sort of
                        > > > thing more obvious?
                        > > > >
                        > > > > What if, when you add a piece of equipment, if this pushes you from
                        > > > light to medium, or medium to heavy, a dialog pops up warning you?
                        > > > >
                        > > > > A similar 'congrats!' on removing equipment and dropping a level
                        > > > would be amusing too :-)
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Cheers
                        > > > > D
                        > > > >
                        > > > > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com <mailto:pcgen%40yahoogroups.com>,
                        > > > "Paul" <nylanfs@> wrote:
                        > > > >> PFS, make different equipment sets for different situations.
                        > > > >>
                        > > > >> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com <mailto:pcgen%40yahoogroups.com>,
                        > > > "pfsgamer" <losttrader2000@> wrote:
                        > > > >>> Oh my! You are correct and I should have caught that - I am
                        > > > frequently swapping equipment because of the load limit.
                        > > > >>> Thank you! Sorry for the fuss!
                        > > > >>>
                        > > > >>> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com <mailto:pcgen%40yahoogroups.com>,
                        > > > "Distant Scholar" <adventure@> wrote:
                        > > > >>>>
                        > > > >>>> pfsgamer sent me the character file, and I discovered the
                        > > > problem: equipping the darkwood buckler is just enough to put the
                        > > > character into Medium encumbrance.
                        > > > >>>>
                        > > > >>>> Yes, the character was within 2.5 lbs of the Medium encumbrance
                        > > > category.
                        > > > >>>>
                        > > > >>>> DS/DL
                        > > > >>>>
                        > > > >>>> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com <mailto:pcgen%40yahoogroups.com>,
                        > > > "pfsgamer" <losttrader2000@> wrote:
                        > > > >>>>> PCGen 5.1.7.10 w/ PFS Core, APG, Guide 4.0, and Ultimate Combat.
                        > > > >>>>> The Darkwood Buckler is from the Core rulebook.
                        > > > >>>>>
                        > > > >>>>> Thanks for looking into this. The only reason the character got
                        > > > the thing was because she was told it did not produce any penalties,
                        > > > and did not interfere with the bow.
                        > > > >>>>>
                        > > > >>>>> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com <mailto:pcgen%40yahoogroups.com>,
                        > > > Doug Limmer <adventure@> wrote:
                        > > > >>>>>
                        > > > >>>>>> @pfsgamer: What version of PCGen are you using, and what
                        > > > datasets are
                        > > > >>>>>> you loading? (If you gave this information earlier, I've lost it.)
                        > > > >>>>>>
                        > > > >>>>>> DS/DL
                        > > > >>>>>>
                        > > > >>>>>> On 3/6/2012 12:37 PM, Stefan Radermacher wrote:
                        > > > >>>>>>> On 06.03.2012 18:03, pfsgamer wrote:
                        > > > >>>>>>>> I noticed today that an archer (rogue) using a buckler
                        > > > >>>>>>>> (non-proficient) has her skills trashed. This was NOT the case
                        > > > >>>>>>>> before, and does not make sense. Especially since I was told
                        > > > a rogue
                        > > > >>>>>>>> can equip a buckler without penalty. The AC check should be
                        > > > 0. Why is
                        > > > >>>>>>>> it suddenly affecting SKILLs?
                        > > > >>>>>>>>
                        > > > >>>>>>>> from the book: "You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty
                        > > > while
                        > > > >>>>>>>> carrying it."
                        > > > >>>>>>> That means you don't get penalties to attack when using the
                        > > > bow, which
                        > > > >>>>>>> has nothing to do with using skills. The armor check penalty still
                        > > > >>>>>>> applies to alls Strength- and Dexterity-based skills. Such is
                        > > > the cost
                        > > > >>>>>>> for using it non-proficiently.
                        > > > >>>>>>>
                        > > > >>>>>>> Stefan.
                        > > > >>>>>>>
                        > > > >>>>>>
                        > > > >>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > > > >>>>>>
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > ------------------------------------
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Related Lists
                        > > > > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                        > > > > PCGen's Mailing Lists and Links:
                        > > > http://wiki.pcgen.org/Mailing_Lists_and_PCGen_Links
                        > > > > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                        > > > > PCGen's JIRA Tracker: http://jira.pcgen.org
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > PCGen List File Help:
                        > > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                        > > > > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                        > > > >
                        > > > > PCGen Experimental:
                        > > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                        > > > > (for new official data source development)
                        > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > --
                        > > > Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
                        > > > Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
                        > > > Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
                        > > > Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
                        > > > Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"
                        > > >
                        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > >
                        >
                      • FerretDave
                        Greetings, Enhancing this has already been requested: http://jira.pcgen.org/browse/CODE-1363 Cheers D
                        Message 11 of 23 , Mar 11, 2012
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Greetings,
                          Enhancing this has already been requested:
                          http://jira.pcgen.org/browse/CODE-1363

                          Cheers
                          D
                          --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "pfsgamer" <losttrader2000@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > I probably should mention that I do tend to glance at the total weight -- but for some reason the font in PCGen window gets cut off... and the 6 truly looked like 5, which would have been ok.
                          >
                          > Did not notice that IGHT changed to EDIUM.
                          > Have not investigated the font display as it has not been a priority....
                          >
                          > Curious: is selective BOLD possible in this area, for when encumbrance changes? Just on certain words/numbers.
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "FerretDave" <ferret.griffin@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Greetings,
                          > >
                          > > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, UnclePete <uncle@> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > Encumbrance information is already displayed in the panel that shows
                          > > > Equipment Info as 'LOAD' including the encumbrance levels, which is very
                          > > > useful. Colour coding it may be useful, but I can't see any great benefit.
                          > >
                          > > You're not the first person to overlook encumberance being the cause of 'odd' skill penalties, so making this more obvious in the GUI may be helpful.
                          > >
                          > > >
                          > > > This info is really only useful when changing a character
                          > >
                          > > Though knowing during a game that adding/removing some items/loot will change your encumberance is often handy.
                          > >
                          > > > and it's being
                          > > > displayed where it needs to be, so I'd be a bit reluctant to see my
                          > > > character sheet further cluttered with stuff I don't need to refer to
                          > >
                          > > Encumberance is just a couple of lines on the OS, at the bottom of your equipment list is a short summary indicating weight allowances for each level.
                          > >
                          > > > constantly during a gaming session.
                          > > >
                          > > > Pete
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > On 03/09/2012 02:26 AM, Andrew wrote:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > In at least the pdf version, you get an encumbrance box that should
                          > > > > declare your encumbrance load -
                          > > > > it appears under the Base Attack Bonus box. It also only appears if
                          > > > > the character is encumbered.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > I'm not sure I'd appreciate a pop up box while I'm work with the
                          > > > > Character. I'd be more inclined to
                          > > > > find other methods, like turning the Weight Yellow for Medium Load,
                          > > > > Red for Heavy Load, or
                          > > > > increasing the size of the font when it reaches an encumbered level.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Something Visually Eye Catching. We already have enough pop up
                          > > > > dialogs. If you want to go a little
                          > > > > further we could add a message to the TO DO box, "Verify your
                          > > > > equipment, your character is
                          > > > > encumbered* or something akin. We have so many new avenues, like that
                          > >
                          > > I like the idea of this being in the 'TODO box'.
                          > >
                          > > > > summary screen has room for a
                          > > > > Change to Draw Attention to being encumbered.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Cheers,
                          > >
                          > > Cheers
                          > > D
                          > > > >
                          > > > > On 3/8/2012 5:33 AM, FerretDave wrote:
                          > > > > > Perhaps we want the load display enhancing to make this sort of
                          > > > > thing more obvious?
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > What if, when you add a piece of equipment, if this pushes you from
                          > > > > light to medium, or medium to heavy, a dialog pops up warning you?
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > A similar 'congrats!' on removing equipment and dropping a level
                          > > > > would be amusing too :-)
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Cheers
                          > > > > > D
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com <mailto:pcgen%40yahoogroups.com>,
                          > > > > "Paul" <nylanfs@> wrote:
                          > > > > >> PFS, make different equipment sets for different situations.
                          > > > > >>
                          > > > > >> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com <mailto:pcgen%40yahoogroups.com>,
                          > > > > "pfsgamer" <losttrader2000@> wrote:
                          > > > > >>> Oh my! You are correct and I should have caught that - I am
                          > > > > frequently swapping equipment because of the load limit.
                          > > > > >>> Thank you! Sorry for the fuss!
                          > > > > >>>
                          > > > > >>> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com <mailto:pcgen%40yahoogroups.com>,
                          > > > > "Distant Scholar" <adventure@> wrote:
                          > > > > >>>>
                          > > > > >>>> pfsgamer sent me the character file, and I discovered the
                          > > > > problem: equipping the darkwood buckler is just enough to put the
                          > > > > character into Medium encumbrance.
                          > > > > >>>>
                          > > > > >>>> Yes, the character was within 2.5 lbs of the Medium encumbrance
                          > > > > category.
                          > > > > >>>>
                          > > > > >>>> DS/DL
                          > > > > >>>>
                          > > > > >>>> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com <mailto:pcgen%40yahoogroups.com>,
                          > > > > "pfsgamer" <losttrader2000@> wrote:
                          > > > > >>>>> PCGen 5.1.7.10 w/ PFS Core, APG, Guide 4.0, and Ultimate Combat.
                          > > > > >>>>> The Darkwood Buckler is from the Core rulebook.
                          > > > > >>>>>
                          > > > > >>>>> Thanks for looking into this. The only reason the character got
                          > > > > the thing was because she was told it did not produce any penalties,
                          > > > > and did not interfere with the bow.
                          > > > > >>>>>
                          > > > > >>>>> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com <mailto:pcgen%40yahoogroups.com>,
                          > > > > Doug Limmer <adventure@> wrote:
                          > > > > >>>>>
                          > > > > >>>>>> @pfsgamer: What version of PCGen are you using, and what
                          > > > > datasets are
                          > > > > >>>>>> you loading? (If you gave this information earlier, I've lost it.)
                          > > > > >>>>>>
                          > > > > >>>>>> DS/DL
                          > > > > >>>>>>
                          > > > > >>>>>> On 3/6/2012 12:37 PM, Stefan Radermacher wrote:
                          > > > > >>>>>>> On 06.03.2012 18:03, pfsgamer wrote:
                          > > > > >>>>>>>> I noticed today that an archer (rogue) using a buckler
                          > > > > >>>>>>>> (non-proficient) has her skills trashed. This was NOT the case
                          > > > > >>>>>>>> before, and does not make sense. Especially since I was told
                          > > > > a rogue
                          > > > > >>>>>>>> can equip a buckler without penalty. The AC check should be
                          > > > > 0. Why is
                          > > > > >>>>>>>> it suddenly affecting SKILLs?
                          > > > > >>>>>>>>
                          > > > > >>>>>>>> from the book: "You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty
                          > > > > while
                          > > > > >>>>>>>> carrying it."
                          > > > > >>>>>>> That means you don't get penalties to attack when using the
                          > > > > bow, which
                          > > > > >>>>>>> has nothing to do with using skills. The armor check penalty still
                          > > > > >>>>>>> applies to alls Strength- and Dexterity-based skills. Such is
                          > > > > the cost
                          > > > > >>>>>>> for using it non-proficiently.
                          > > > > >>>>>>>
                          > > > > >>>>>>> Stefan.
                          > > > > >>>>>>>
                          > > > > >>>>>>
                          > > > > >>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > > > > >>>>>>
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > ------------------------------------
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Related Lists
                          > > > > > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                          > > > > > PCGen's Mailing Lists and Links:
                          > > > > http://wiki.pcgen.org/Mailing_Lists_and_PCGen_Links
                          > > > > > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                          > > > > > PCGen's JIRA Tracker: http://jira.pcgen.org
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > PCGen List File Help:
                          > > > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                          > > > > > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > PCGen Experimental:
                          > > > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                          > > > > > (for new official data source development)
                          > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > --
                          > > > > Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
                          > > > > Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
                          > > > > Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
                          > > > > Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
                          > > > > Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"
                          > > > >
                          > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > > >
                          > >
                          >
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