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Re: [pcgen] Re: Darkwood Buckler

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  • Doug Limmer
    I tried this out. First, a couple of caveats: 1. I m assuming you mean 5.17.10 rather than 5.1.7.10. :-) 2. I m further assuming PFS Core means Pathfinder
    Message 1 of 23 , Mar 7, 2012
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      I tried this out.

      First, a couple of caveats:
      1. I'm assuming you mean 5.17.10 rather than 5.1.7.10. :-)
      2. I'm further assuming PFS Core means Pathfinder Core Rulebook; there
      may be some Pathfinder Society Core I'm unaware of.
      3. My version of 5.17.10 didn't have an Ultimate Combat selection
      available. Thus, I didn't select it.
      4. I'm assuming "archer" is more a description of what the character
      wants to be, rather than some Archetype or other ability I'm unfamiliar
      with.

      The short version: I'm not seeing a problem. Run PCGen without that
      Ultimate Combat loaded (maybe it's messing up the buckler?) and try again.

      I made a Neutral Good half-elf rogue level 1, 25 point buy,
      14/16/14/14/10/10 stats; skills, feats, class abilities, etc. left
      unchosen, no traits, and added buckler, darkwood buckler, and shortbow
      to the inventory. Shortbow equipped. With the regular buckler
      equipped, I get the expected -1 to skills and attack with the bow[1].
      With the darkwood buckler equipped, I don't get any modifier to skills
      and attack with the bow.

      Now, I *do* get a shield bash with the darkwood buckler, which suggests
      the program is treating it like a light shield for bashing purposes, but
      I am still able to equip both the shortbow (two-handed) and the darkwood
      buckler at the same time. Maybe the darkwood buckler is being treated
      as both?

      [1]This is the -1 for being non-proficient with the buckler, not a -1
      for having a buckler on the same arm as the weapon, since bucklers don't
      give that penalty for bows and crossbows.

      DS/DL

      On 3/7/2012 9:29 AM, pfsgamer wrote:
      >
      > PCGen 5.1.7.10 w/ PFS Core, APG, Guide 4.0, and Ultimate Combat.
      > The Darkwood Buckler is from the Core rulebook.
      >
      > Thanks for looking into this. The only reason the character got the
      > thing was because she was told it did not produce any penalties, and
      > did not interfere with the bow.
      >
      > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com <mailto:pcgen%40yahoogroups.com>, Doug
      > Limmer <adventure@...> wrote:
      >
      > > @pfsgamer: What version of PCGen are you using, and what datasets are
      > > you loading? (If you gave this information earlier, I've lost it.)
      > >
      > > DS/DL
      > >
      > > On 3/6/2012 12:37 PM, Stefan Radermacher wrote:
      > > >
      > > > On 06.03.2012 18:03, pfsgamer wrote:
      > > > > I noticed today that an archer (rogue) using a buckler
      > > > > (non-proficient) has her skills trashed. This was NOT the case
      > > > > before, and does not make sense. Especially since I was told a rogue
      > > > > can equip a buckler without penalty. The AC check should be 0.
      > Why is
      > > > > it suddenly affecting SKILLs?
      > > > >
      > > > > from the book: "You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty while
      > > > > carrying it."
      > > >
      > > > That means you don't get penalties to attack when using the bow, which
      > > > has nothing to do with using skills. The armor check penalty still
      > > > applies to alls Strength- and Dexterity-based skills. Such is the cost
      > > > for using it non-proficiently.
      > > >
      > > > Stefan.
      >



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • UnclePete
      I ve been following this with some interest. As DM, I have had to remind some players to reduce their AC if using a weapon or casting a spell while wearing a
      Message 2 of 23 , Mar 7, 2012
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        I've been following this with some interest. As DM, I have had to remind
        some players to reduce their AC if using a weapon or casting a spell
        while wearing a buckler. From PCGen's point of view, equipping both a
        weapon and a buckler at the same time is acceptable - the adjustment to
        AC is a player's responsibility. However, allowing shield bash with a
        buckler is wrong and needs fixing.

        Pathfinder Core Rulebook, 5th printing, p150:
        "In any case, if you use a weapon in your off hand, you lose the
        buckler's AC bonus until your next turn. You can cast a spell with
        somatic components using your shield arm, but you lose the buckler's AC
        bonus until your next turn. You can't make a shield bash with a buckler."

        This simple statement, however, has produced some robust discussion
        about what constitutes weapon "use" and what is required to regain the
        buckler AC. If anyone is interested in our house rules resulting from
        these discussions, let me know and I'll be happy to share.

        Pete



        On 03/08/2012 02:13 AM, Doug Limmer wrote:
        >
        > I tried this out.
        >
        > First, a couple of caveats:
        > 1. I'm assuming you mean 5.17.10 rather than 5.1.7.10. :-)
        > 2. I'm further assuming PFS Core means Pathfinder Core Rulebook; there
        > may be some Pathfinder Society Core I'm unaware of.
        > 3. My version of 5.17.10 didn't have an Ultimate Combat selection
        > available. Thus, I didn't select it.
        > 4. I'm assuming "archer" is more a description of what the character
        > wants to be, rather than some Archetype or other ability I'm unfamiliar
        > with.
        >
        > The short version: I'm not seeing a problem. Run PCGen without that
        > Ultimate Combat loaded (maybe it's messing up the buckler?) and try again.
        >
        > I made a Neutral Good half-elf rogue level 1, 25 point buy,
        > 14/16/14/14/10/10 stats; skills, feats, class abilities, etc. left
        > unchosen, no traits, and added buckler, darkwood buckler, and shortbow
        > to the inventory. Shortbow equipped. With the regular buckler
        > equipped, I get the expected -1 to skills and attack with the bow[1].
        > With the darkwood buckler equipped, I don't get any modifier to skills
        > and attack with the bow.
        >
        > Now, I *do* get a shield bash with the darkwood buckler, which suggests
        > the program is treating it like a light shield for bashing purposes, but
        > I am still able to equip both the shortbow (two-handed) and the darkwood
        > buckler at the same time. Maybe the darkwood buckler is being treated
        > as both?
        >
        > [1]This is the -1 for being non-proficient with the buckler, not a -1
        > for having a buckler on the same arm as the weapon, since bucklers don't
        > give that penalty for bows and crossbows.
        >
        > DS/DL
        >
        > On 3/7/2012 9:29 AM, pfsgamer wrote:
        > >
        > > PCGen 5.1.7.10 w/ PFS Core, APG, Guide 4.0, and Ultimate Combat.
        > > The Darkwood Buckler is from the Core rulebook.
        > >
        > > Thanks for looking into this. The only reason the character got the
        > > thing was because she was told it did not produce any penalties, and
        > > did not interfere with the bow.
        > >
        > > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com <mailto:pcgen%40yahoogroups.com>
        > <mailto:pcgen%40yahoogroups.com>, Doug
        > > Limmer <adventure@...> wrote:
        > >
        > > > @pfsgamer: What version of PCGen are you using, and what datasets are
        > > > you loading? (If you gave this information earlier, I've lost it.)
        > > >
        > > > DS/DL
        > > >
        > > > On 3/6/2012 12:37 PM, Stefan Radermacher wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > On 06.03.2012 18:03, pfsgamer wrote:
        > > > > > I noticed today that an archer (rogue) using a buckler
        > > > > > (non-proficient) has her skills trashed. This was NOT the case
        > > > > > before, and does not make sense. Especially since I was told a
        > rogue
        > > > > > can equip a buckler without penalty. The AC check should be 0.
        > > Why is
        > > > > > it suddenly affecting SKILLs?
        > > > > >
        > > > > > from the book: "You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty
        > while
        > > > > > carrying it."
        > > > >
        > > > > That means you don't get penalties to attack when using the bow,
        > which
        > > > > has nothing to do with using skills. The armor check penalty still
        > > > > applies to alls Strength- and Dexterity-based skills. Such is
        > the cost
        > > > > for using it non-proficiently.
        > > > >
        > > > > Stefan.
        > >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • pfsgamer
        Thanks, Doug. Found & deleted the Ultimate Combat folder. Darkwood Buckler stills damages skills. I agree it should not bash, but that is ignorable. Skills
        Message 3 of 23 , Mar 7, 2012
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          Thanks, Doug. Found & deleted the Ultimate Combat folder.

          Darkwood Buckler stills damages skills.
          I agree it should not bash, but that is ignorable.
          Skills failing - not ignorable... :-)

          Added Inner Sea Primer to pick up the Azlanti language. So 4 sources: Core, APG, Guide, ISP. It may even load w/o ISP once the language has been selected, I don't know.

          She is level 6 so dropping these would be problematic to the rest of her feats & traits... :-)


          --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Doug Limmer <adventure@...> wrote:
          >
          > I tried this out.
          >
          > First, a couple of caveats:
          > 1. I'm assuming you mean 5.17.10 rather than 5.1.7.10. :-)
          > 2. I'm further assuming PFS Core means Pathfinder Core Rulebook; there
          > may be some Pathfinder Society Core I'm unaware of.
          > 3. My version of 5.17.10 didn't have an Ultimate Combat selection
          > available. Thus, I didn't select it.
          > 4. I'm assuming "archer" is more a description of what the character
          > wants to be, rather than some Archetype or other ability I'm unfamiliar
          > with.
          >
          > The short version: I'm not seeing a problem. Run PCGen without that
          > Ultimate Combat loaded (maybe it's messing up the buckler?) and try again.
          >
          > I made a Neutral Good half-elf rogue level 1, 25 point buy,
          > 14/16/14/14/10/10 stats; skills, feats, class abilities, etc. left
          > unchosen, no traits, and added buckler, darkwood buckler, and shortbow
          > to the inventory. Shortbow equipped. With the regular buckler
          > equipped, I get the expected -1 to skills and attack with the bow[1].
          > With the darkwood buckler equipped, I don't get any modifier to skills
          > and attack with the bow.
          >
          > Now, I *do* get a shield bash with the darkwood buckler, which suggests
          > the program is treating it like a light shield for bashing purposes, but
          > I am still able to equip both the shortbow (two-handed) and the darkwood
          > buckler at the same time. Maybe the darkwood buckler is being treated
          > as both?
          >
          > [1]This is the -1 for being non-proficient with the buckler, not a -1
          > for having a buckler on the same arm as the weapon, since bucklers don't
          > give that penalty for bows and crossbows.
          >
          > DS/DL
          >
          > On 3/7/2012 9:29 AM, pfsgamer wrote:
          > >
          > > PCGen 5.1.7.10 w/ PFS Core, APG, Guide 4.0, and Ultimate Combat.
          > > The Darkwood Buckler is from the Core rulebook.
          > >
          > > Thanks for looking into this. The only reason the character got the
          > > thing was because she was told it did not produce any penalties, and
          > > did not interfere with the bow.
          > >
          > > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com <mailto:pcgen%40yahoogroups.com>, Doug
          > > Limmer <adventure@> wrote:
          > >
          > > > @pfsgamer: What version of PCGen are you using, and what datasets are
          > > > you loading? (If you gave this information earlier, I've lost it.)
          > > >
          > > > DS/DL
          > > >
          > > > On 3/6/2012 12:37 PM, Stefan Radermacher wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > > On 06.03.2012 18:03, pfsgamer wrote:
          > > > > > I noticed today that an archer (rogue) using a buckler
          > > > > > (non-proficient) has her skills trashed. This was NOT the case
          > > > > > before, and does not make sense. Especially since I was told a rogue
          > > > > > can equip a buckler without penalty. The AC check should be 0.
          > > Why is
          > > > > > it suddenly affecting SKILLs?
          > > > > >
          > > > > > from the book: "You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty while
          > > > > > carrying it."
          > > > >
          > > > > That means you don't get penalties to attack when using the bow, which
          > > > > has nothing to do with using skills. The armor check penalty still
          > > > > applies to alls Strength- and Dexterity-based skills. Such is the cost
          > > > > for using it non-proficiently.
          > > > >
          > > > > Stefan.
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • Eric C Smith
          Hi pfsgamer, What are your referring to when you say Guide ? Core, APG, and ISP are obvious but Guide, by itself, means nothing . . . Maredudd
          Message 4 of 23 , Mar 7, 2012
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            Hi pfsgamer,

            What are your referring to when you say "Guide"?

            Core, APG, and ISP are obvious but Guide, by itself, means nothing . . .

            Maredudd

            On Mar 7, 2012, at 1:58 PM, pfsgamer wrote:

            > Thanks, Doug. Found & deleted the Ultimate Combat folder.
            >
            > Darkwood Buckler stills damages skills.
            > I agree it should not bash, but that is ignorable.
            > Skills failing - not ignorable... :-)
            >
            > Added Inner Sea Primer to pick up the Azlanti language. So 4 sources: Core, APG, Guide, ISP. It may even load w/o ISP once the language has been selected, I don't know.
            >
            > She is level 6 so dropping these would be problematic to the rest of her feats & traits... :-)
          • pfsgamer
            Guide to Organized Play 4.0 -- Required for PFS! :-)
            Message 5 of 23 , Mar 7, 2012
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              Guide to Organized Play 4.0 -- Required for PFS! :-)

              --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Eric C Smith <maredudd@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi pfsgamer,
              >
              > What are your referring to when you say "Guide"?
              >
              > Core, APG, and ISP are obvious but Guide, by itself, means nothing . . .
              >
              > Maredudd
              >
              > On Mar 7, 2012, at 1:58 PM, pfsgamer wrote:
              >
              > > Thanks, Doug. Found & deleted the Ultimate Combat folder.
              > >
              > > Darkwood Buckler stills damages skills.
              > > I agree it should not bash, but that is ignorable.
              > > Skills failing - not ignorable... :-)
              > >
              > > Added Inner Sea Primer to pick up the Azlanti language. So 4 sources: Core, APG, Guide, ISP. It may even load w/o ISP once the language has been selected, I don't know.
              > >
              > > She is level 6 so dropping these would be problematic to the rest of her feats & traits... :-)
              >
            • Distant Scholar
              pfsgamer sent me the character file, and I discovered the problem: equipping the darkwood buckler is just enough to put the character into Medium encumbrance.
              Message 6 of 23 , Mar 7, 2012
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                pfsgamer sent me the character file, and I discovered the problem: equipping the darkwood buckler is just enough to put the character into Medium encumbrance.

                Yes, the character was within 2.5 lbs of the Medium encumbrance category.

                DS/DL

                --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "pfsgamer" <losttrader2000@...> wrote:
                >
                > PCGen 5.1.7.10 w/ PFS Core, APG, Guide 4.0, and Ultimate Combat.
                > The Darkwood Buckler is from the Core rulebook.
                >
                > Thanks for looking into this. The only reason the character got the thing was because she was told it did not produce any penalties, and did not interfere with the bow.
                >
                > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Doug Limmer <adventure@> wrote:
                >
                > > @pfsgamer: What version of PCGen are you using, and what datasets are
                > > you loading? (If you gave this information earlier, I've lost it.)
                > >
                > > DS/DL
                > >
                > > On 3/6/2012 12:37 PM, Stefan Radermacher wrote:
                > > >
                > > > On 06.03.2012 18:03, pfsgamer wrote:
                > > > > I noticed today that an archer (rogue) using a buckler
                > > > > (non-proficient) has her skills trashed. This was NOT the case
                > > > > before, and does not make sense. Especially since I was told a rogue
                > > > > can equip a buckler without penalty. The AC check should be 0. Why is
                > > > > it suddenly affecting SKILLs?
                > > > >
                > > > > from the book: "You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty while
                > > > > carrying it."
                > > >
                > > > That means you don't get penalties to attack when using the bow, which
                > > > has nothing to do with using skills. The armor check penalty still
                > > > applies to alls Strength- and Dexterity-based skills. Such is the cost
                > > > for using it non-proficiently.
                > > >
                > > > Stefan.
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                >
              • pfsgamer
                Oh my! You are correct and I should have caught that - I am frequently swapping equipment because of the load limit. Thank you! Sorry for the fuss!
                Message 7 of 23 , Mar 7, 2012
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                  Oh my! You are correct and I should have caught that - I am frequently swapping equipment because of the load limit.
                  Thank you! Sorry for the fuss!

                  --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Distant Scholar" <adventure@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > pfsgamer sent me the character file, and I discovered the problem: equipping the darkwood buckler is just enough to put the character into Medium encumbrance.
                  >
                  > Yes, the character was within 2.5 lbs of the Medium encumbrance category.
                  >
                  > DS/DL
                  >
                  > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "pfsgamer" <losttrader2000@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > PCGen 5.1.7.10 w/ PFS Core, APG, Guide 4.0, and Ultimate Combat.
                  > > The Darkwood Buckler is from the Core rulebook.
                  > >
                  > > Thanks for looking into this. The only reason the character got the thing was because she was told it did not produce any penalties, and did not interfere with the bow.
                  > >
                  > > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Doug Limmer <adventure@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > > @pfsgamer: What version of PCGen are you using, and what datasets are
                  > > > you loading? (If you gave this information earlier, I've lost it.)
                  > > >
                  > > > DS/DL
                  > > >
                  > > > On 3/6/2012 12:37 PM, Stefan Radermacher wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > On 06.03.2012 18:03, pfsgamer wrote:
                  > > > > > I noticed today that an archer (rogue) using a buckler
                  > > > > > (non-proficient) has her skills trashed. This was NOT the case
                  > > > > > before, and does not make sense. Especially since I was told a rogue
                  > > > > > can equip a buckler without penalty. The AC check should be 0. Why is
                  > > > > > it suddenly affecting SKILLs?
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > from the book: "You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty while
                  > > > > > carrying it."
                  > > > >
                  > > > > That means you don't get penalties to attack when using the bow, which
                  > > > > has nothing to do with using skills. The armor check penalty still
                  > > > > applies to alls Strength- and Dexterity-based skills. Such is the cost
                  > > > > for using it non-proficiently.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Stefan.
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                • Paul
                  PFS, make different equipment sets for different situations.
                  Message 8 of 23 , Mar 7, 2012
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                    PFS, make different equipment sets for different situations.

                    --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "pfsgamer" <losttrader2000@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Oh my! You are correct and I should have caught that - I am frequently swapping equipment because of the load limit.
                    > Thank you! Sorry for the fuss!
                    >
                    > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Distant Scholar" <adventure@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > pfsgamer sent me the character file, and I discovered the problem: equipping the darkwood buckler is just enough to put the character into Medium encumbrance.
                    > >
                    > > Yes, the character was within 2.5 lbs of the Medium encumbrance category.
                    > >
                    > > DS/DL
                    > >
                    > > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "pfsgamer" <losttrader2000@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > PCGen 5.1.7.10 w/ PFS Core, APG, Guide 4.0, and Ultimate Combat.
                    > > > The Darkwood Buckler is from the Core rulebook.
                    > > >
                    > > > Thanks for looking into this. The only reason the character got the thing was because she was told it did not produce any penalties, and did not interfere with the bow.
                    > > >
                    > > > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Doug Limmer <adventure@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > > @pfsgamer: What version of PCGen are you using, and what datasets are
                    > > > > you loading? (If you gave this information earlier, I've lost it.)
                    > > > >
                    > > > > DS/DL
                    > > > >
                    > > > > On 3/6/2012 12:37 PM, Stefan Radermacher wrote:
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > On 06.03.2012 18:03, pfsgamer wrote:
                    > > > > > > I noticed today that an archer (rogue) using a buckler
                    > > > > > > (non-proficient) has her skills trashed. This was NOT the case
                    > > > > > > before, and does not make sense. Especially since I was told a rogue
                    > > > > > > can equip a buckler without penalty. The AC check should be 0. Why is
                    > > > > > > it suddenly affecting SKILLs?
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > from the book: "You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty while
                    > > > > > > carrying it."
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > That means you don't get penalties to attack when using the bow, which
                    > > > > > has nothing to do with using skills. The armor check penalty still
                    > > > > > applies to alls Strength- and Dexterity-based skills. Such is the cost
                    > > > > > for using it non-proficiently.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Stefan.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • FerretDave
                    Perhaps we want the load display enhancing to make this sort of thing more obvious? What if, when you add a piece of equipment, if this pushes you from light
                    Message 9 of 23 , Mar 8, 2012
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                      Perhaps we want the load display enhancing to make this sort of thing more obvious?

                      What if, when you add a piece of equipment, if this pushes you from light to medium, or medium to heavy, a dialog pops up warning you?

                      A similar 'congrats!' on removing equipment and dropping a level would be amusing too :-)

                      Cheers
                      D

                      --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <nylanfs@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > PFS, make different equipment sets for different situations.
                      >
                      > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "pfsgamer" <losttrader2000@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Oh my! You are correct and I should have caught that - I am frequently swapping equipment because of the load limit.
                      > > Thank you! Sorry for the fuss!
                      > >
                      > > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Distant Scholar" <adventure@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > pfsgamer sent me the character file, and I discovered the problem: equipping the darkwood buckler is just enough to put the character into Medium encumbrance.
                      > > >
                      > > > Yes, the character was within 2.5 lbs of the Medium encumbrance category.
                      > > >
                      > > > DS/DL
                      > > >
                      > > > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "pfsgamer" <losttrader2000@> wrote:
                      > > > >
                      > > > > PCGen 5.1.7.10 w/ PFS Core, APG, Guide 4.0, and Ultimate Combat.
                      > > > > The Darkwood Buckler is from the Core rulebook.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Thanks for looking into this. The only reason the character got the thing was because she was told it did not produce any penalties, and did not interfere with the bow.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Doug Limmer <adventure@> wrote:
                      > > > >
                      > > > > > @pfsgamer: What version of PCGen are you using, and what datasets are
                      > > > > > you loading? (If you gave this information earlier, I've lost it.)
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > DS/DL
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > On 3/6/2012 12:37 PM, Stefan Radermacher wrote:
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > On 06.03.2012 18:03, pfsgamer wrote:
                      > > > > > > > I noticed today that an archer (rogue) using a buckler
                      > > > > > > > (non-proficient) has her skills trashed. This was NOT the case
                      > > > > > > > before, and does not make sense. Especially since I was told a rogue
                      > > > > > > > can equip a buckler without penalty. The AC check should be 0. Why is
                      > > > > > > > it suddenly affecting SKILLs?
                      > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > > from the book: "You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty while
                      > > > > > > > carrying it."
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > That means you don't get penalties to attack when using the bow, which
                      > > > > > > has nothing to do with using skills. The armor check penalty still
                      > > > > > > applies to alls Strength- and Dexterity-based skills. Such is the cost
                      > > > > > > for using it non-proficiently.
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > Stefan.
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                    • Andrew
                      In at least the pdf version, you get an encumbrance box that should declare your encumbrance load - it appears under the Base Attack Bonus box. It also only
                      Message 10 of 23 , Mar 8, 2012
                      • 0 Attachment
                        In at least the pdf version, you get an encumbrance box that should declare your encumbrance load -
                        it appears under the Base Attack Bonus box. It also only appears if the character is encumbered.

                        I'm not sure I'd appreciate a pop up box while I'm work with the Character. I'd be more inclined to
                        find other methods, like turning the Weight Yellow for Medium Load, Red for Heavy Load, or
                        increasing the size of the font when it reaches an encumbered level.

                        Something Visually Eye Catching. We already have enough pop up dialogs. If you want to go a little
                        further we could add a message to the TO DO box, "Verify your equipment, your character is
                        encumbered* or something akin. We have so many new avenues, like that summary screen has room for a
                        Change to Draw Attention to being encumbered.

                        Cheers,


                        On 3/8/2012 5:33 AM, FerretDave wrote:
                        > Perhaps we want the load display enhancing to make this sort of thing more obvious?
                        >
                        > What if, when you add a piece of equipment, if this pushes you from light to medium, or medium to heavy, a dialog pops up warning you?
                        >
                        > A similar 'congrats!' on removing equipment and dropping a level would be amusing too :-)
                        >
                        > Cheers
                        > D
                        >
                        > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <nylanfs@...> wrote:
                        >> PFS, make different equipment sets for different situations.
                        >>
                        >> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "pfsgamer" <losttrader2000@> wrote:
                        >>> Oh my! You are correct and I should have caught that - I am frequently swapping equipment because of the load limit.
                        >>> Thank you! Sorry for the fuss!
                        >>>
                        >>> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Distant Scholar" <adventure@> wrote:
                        >>>>
                        >>>> pfsgamer sent me the character file, and I discovered the problem: equipping the darkwood buckler is just enough to put the character into Medium encumbrance.
                        >>>>
                        >>>> Yes, the character was within 2.5 lbs of the Medium encumbrance category.
                        >>>>
                        >>>> DS/DL
                        >>>>
                        >>>> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "pfsgamer" <losttrader2000@> wrote:
                        >>>>> PCGen 5.1.7.10 w/ PFS Core, APG, Guide 4.0, and Ultimate Combat.
                        >>>>> The Darkwood Buckler is from the Core rulebook.
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>> Thanks for looking into this. The only reason the character got the thing was because she was told it did not produce any penalties, and did not interfere with the bow.
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Doug Limmer <adventure@> wrote:
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>>> @pfsgamer: What version of PCGen are you using, and what datasets are
                        >>>>>> you loading? (If you gave this information earlier, I've lost it.)
                        >>>>>>
                        >>>>>> DS/DL
                        >>>>>>
                        >>>>>> On 3/6/2012 12:37 PM, Stefan Radermacher wrote:
                        >>>>>>> On 06.03.2012 18:03, pfsgamer wrote:
                        >>>>>>>> I noticed today that an archer (rogue) using a buckler
                        >>>>>>>> (non-proficient) has her skills trashed. This was NOT the case
                        >>>>>>>> before, and does not make sense. Especially since I was told a rogue
                        >>>>>>>> can equip a buckler without penalty. The AC check should be 0. Why is
                        >>>>>>>> it suddenly affecting SKILLs?
                        >>>>>>>>
                        >>>>>>>> from the book: "You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty while
                        >>>>>>>> carrying it."
                        >>>>>>> That means you don't get penalties to attack when using the bow, which
                        >>>>>>> has nothing to do with using skills. The armor check penalty still
                        >>>>>>> applies to alls Strength- and Dexterity-based skills. Such is the cost
                        >>>>>>> for using it non-proficiently.
                        >>>>>>>
                        >>>>>>> Stefan.
                        >>>>>>>
                        >>>>>>
                        >>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >>>>>>
                        >
                        >
                        > ------------------------------------
                        >
                        > Related Lists
                        > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                        > PCGen's Mailing Lists and Links: http://wiki.pcgen.org/Mailing_Lists_and_PCGen_Links
                        > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                        > PCGen's JIRA Tracker: http://jira.pcgen.org
                        >
                        >
                        > PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                        > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                        >
                        > PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                        > (for new official data source development)
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >

                        --
                        Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
                        Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
                        Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
                        Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
                        Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • UnclePete
                        Encumbrance information is already displayed in the panel that shows Equipment Info as LOAD including the encumbrance levels, which is very useful. Colour
                        Message 11 of 23 , Mar 8, 2012
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Encumbrance information is already displayed in the panel that shows
                          Equipment Info as 'LOAD' including the encumbrance levels, which is very
                          useful. Colour coding it may be useful, but I can't see any great benefit.

                          This info is really only useful when changing a character and it's being
                          displayed where it needs to be, so I'd be a bit reluctant to see my
                          character sheet further cluttered with stuff I don't need to refer to
                          constantly during a gaming session.

                          Pete


                          On 03/09/2012 02:26 AM, Andrew wrote:
                          >
                          > In at least the pdf version, you get an encumbrance box that should
                          > declare your encumbrance load -
                          > it appears under the Base Attack Bonus box. It also only appears if
                          > the character is encumbered.
                          >
                          > I'm not sure I'd appreciate a pop up box while I'm work with the
                          > Character. I'd be more inclined to
                          > find other methods, like turning the Weight Yellow for Medium Load,
                          > Red for Heavy Load, or
                          > increasing the size of the font when it reaches an encumbered level.
                          >
                          > Something Visually Eye Catching. We already have enough pop up
                          > dialogs. If you want to go a little
                          > further we could add a message to the TO DO box, "Verify your
                          > equipment, your character is
                          > encumbered* or something akin. We have so many new avenues, like that
                          > summary screen has room for a
                          > Change to Draw Attention to being encumbered.
                          >
                          > Cheers,
                          >
                          > On 3/8/2012 5:33 AM, FerretDave wrote:
                          > > Perhaps we want the load display enhancing to make this sort of
                          > thing more obvious?
                          > >
                          > > What if, when you add a piece of equipment, if this pushes you from
                          > light to medium, or medium to heavy, a dialog pops up warning you?
                          > >
                          > > A similar 'congrats!' on removing equipment and dropping a level
                          > would be amusing too :-)
                          > >
                          > > Cheers
                          > > D
                          > >
                          > > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com <mailto:pcgen%40yahoogroups.com>,
                          > "Paul" <nylanfs@...> wrote:
                          > >> PFS, make different equipment sets for different situations.
                          > >>
                          > >> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com <mailto:pcgen%40yahoogroups.com>,
                          > "pfsgamer" <losttrader2000@> wrote:
                          > >>> Oh my! You are correct and I should have caught that - I am
                          > frequently swapping equipment because of the load limit.
                          > >>> Thank you! Sorry for the fuss!
                          > >>>
                          > >>> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com <mailto:pcgen%40yahoogroups.com>,
                          > "Distant Scholar" <adventure@> wrote:
                          > >>>>
                          > >>>> pfsgamer sent me the character file, and I discovered the
                          > problem: equipping the darkwood buckler is just enough to put the
                          > character into Medium encumbrance.
                          > >>>>
                          > >>>> Yes, the character was within 2.5 lbs of the Medium encumbrance
                          > category.
                          > >>>>
                          > >>>> DS/DL
                          > >>>>
                          > >>>> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com <mailto:pcgen%40yahoogroups.com>,
                          > "pfsgamer" <losttrader2000@> wrote:
                          > >>>>> PCGen 5.1.7.10 w/ PFS Core, APG, Guide 4.0, and Ultimate Combat.
                          > >>>>> The Darkwood Buckler is from the Core rulebook.
                          > >>>>>
                          > >>>>> Thanks for looking into this. The only reason the character got
                          > the thing was because she was told it did not produce any penalties,
                          > and did not interfere with the bow.
                          > >>>>>
                          > >>>>> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com <mailto:pcgen%40yahoogroups.com>,
                          > Doug Limmer <adventure@> wrote:
                          > >>>>>
                          > >>>>>> @pfsgamer: What version of PCGen are you using, and what
                          > datasets are
                          > >>>>>> you loading? (If you gave this information earlier, I've lost it.)
                          > >>>>>>
                          > >>>>>> DS/DL
                          > >>>>>>
                          > >>>>>> On 3/6/2012 12:37 PM, Stefan Radermacher wrote:
                          > >>>>>>> On 06.03.2012 18:03, pfsgamer wrote:
                          > >>>>>>>> I noticed today that an archer (rogue) using a buckler
                          > >>>>>>>> (non-proficient) has her skills trashed. This was NOT the case
                          > >>>>>>>> before, and does not make sense. Especially since I was told
                          > a rogue
                          > >>>>>>>> can equip a buckler without penalty. The AC check should be
                          > 0. Why is
                          > >>>>>>>> it suddenly affecting SKILLs?
                          > >>>>>>>>
                          > >>>>>>>> from the book: "You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty
                          > while
                          > >>>>>>>> carrying it."
                          > >>>>>>> That means you don't get penalties to attack when using the
                          > bow, which
                          > >>>>>>> has nothing to do with using skills. The armor check penalty still
                          > >>>>>>> applies to alls Strength- and Dexterity-based skills. Such is
                          > the cost
                          > >>>>>>> for using it non-proficiently.
                          > >>>>>>>
                          > >>>>>>> Stefan.
                          > >>>>>>>
                          > >>>>>>
                          > >>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > >>>>>>
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > ------------------------------------
                          > >
                          > > Related Lists
                          > > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                          > > PCGen's Mailing Lists and Links:
                          > http://wiki.pcgen.org/Mailing_Lists_and_PCGen_Links
                          > > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                          > > PCGen's JIRA Tracker: http://jira.pcgen.org
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > PCGen List File Help:
                          > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                          > > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                          > >
                          > > PCGen Experimental:
                          > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                          > > (for new official data source development)
                          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          > --
                          > Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
                          > Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
                          > Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
                          > Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
                          > Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          >


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • FerretDave
                          Greetings, ... You re not the first person to overlook encumberance being the cause of odd skill penalties, so making this more obvious in the GUI may be
                          Message 12 of 23 , Mar 9, 2012
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Greetings,

                            --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, UnclePete <uncle@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Encumbrance information is already displayed in the panel that shows
                            > Equipment Info as 'LOAD' including the encumbrance levels, which is very
                            > useful. Colour coding it may be useful, but I can't see any great benefit.

                            You're not the first person to overlook encumberance being the cause of 'odd' skill penalties, so making this more obvious in the GUI may be helpful.

                            >
                            > This info is really only useful when changing a character

                            Though knowing during a game that adding/removing some items/loot will change your encumberance is often handy.

                            > and it's being
                            > displayed where it needs to be, so I'd be a bit reluctant to see my
                            > character sheet further cluttered with stuff I don't need to refer to

                            Encumberance is just a couple of lines on the OS, at the bottom of your equipment list is a short summary indicating weight allowances for each level.

                            > constantly during a gaming session.
                            >
                            > Pete
                            >
                            >
                            > On 03/09/2012 02:26 AM, Andrew wrote:
                            > >
                            > > In at least the pdf version, you get an encumbrance box that should
                            > > declare your encumbrance load -
                            > > it appears under the Base Attack Bonus box. It also only appears if
                            > > the character is encumbered.
                            > >
                            > > I'm not sure I'd appreciate a pop up box while I'm work with the
                            > > Character. I'd be more inclined to
                            > > find other methods, like turning the Weight Yellow for Medium Load,
                            > > Red for Heavy Load, or
                            > > increasing the size of the font when it reaches an encumbered level.
                            > >
                            > > Something Visually Eye Catching. We already have enough pop up
                            > > dialogs. If you want to go a little
                            > > further we could add a message to the TO DO box, "Verify your
                            > > equipment, your character is
                            > > encumbered* or something akin. We have so many new avenues, like that

                            I like the idea of this being in the 'TODO box'.

                            > > summary screen has room for a
                            > > Change to Draw Attention to being encumbered.
                            > >
                            > > Cheers,

                            Cheers
                            D
                            > >
                            > > On 3/8/2012 5:33 AM, FerretDave wrote:
                            > > > Perhaps we want the load display enhancing to make this sort of
                            > > thing more obvious?
                            > > >
                            > > > What if, when you add a piece of equipment, if this pushes you from
                            > > light to medium, or medium to heavy, a dialog pops up warning you?
                            > > >
                            > > > A similar 'congrats!' on removing equipment and dropping a level
                            > > would be amusing too :-)
                            > > >
                            > > > Cheers
                            > > > D
                            > > >
                            > > > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com <mailto:pcgen%40yahoogroups.com>,
                            > > "Paul" <nylanfs@> wrote:
                            > > >> PFS, make different equipment sets for different situations.
                            > > >>
                            > > >> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com <mailto:pcgen%40yahoogroups.com>,
                            > > "pfsgamer" <losttrader2000@> wrote:
                            > > >>> Oh my! You are correct and I should have caught that - I am
                            > > frequently swapping equipment because of the load limit.
                            > > >>> Thank you! Sorry for the fuss!
                            > > >>>
                            > > >>> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com <mailto:pcgen%40yahoogroups.com>,
                            > > "Distant Scholar" <adventure@> wrote:
                            > > >>>>
                            > > >>>> pfsgamer sent me the character file, and I discovered the
                            > > problem: equipping the darkwood buckler is just enough to put the
                            > > character into Medium encumbrance.
                            > > >>>>
                            > > >>>> Yes, the character was within 2.5 lbs of the Medium encumbrance
                            > > category.
                            > > >>>>
                            > > >>>> DS/DL
                            > > >>>>
                            > > >>>> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com <mailto:pcgen%40yahoogroups.com>,
                            > > "pfsgamer" <losttrader2000@> wrote:
                            > > >>>>> PCGen 5.1.7.10 w/ PFS Core, APG, Guide 4.0, and Ultimate Combat.
                            > > >>>>> The Darkwood Buckler is from the Core rulebook.
                            > > >>>>>
                            > > >>>>> Thanks for looking into this. The only reason the character got
                            > > the thing was because she was told it did not produce any penalties,
                            > > and did not interfere with the bow.
                            > > >>>>>
                            > > >>>>> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com <mailto:pcgen%40yahoogroups.com>,
                            > > Doug Limmer <adventure@> wrote:
                            > > >>>>>
                            > > >>>>>> @pfsgamer: What version of PCGen are you using, and what
                            > > datasets are
                            > > >>>>>> you loading? (If you gave this information earlier, I've lost it.)
                            > > >>>>>>
                            > > >>>>>> DS/DL
                            > > >>>>>>
                            > > >>>>>> On 3/6/2012 12:37 PM, Stefan Radermacher wrote:
                            > > >>>>>>> On 06.03.2012 18:03, pfsgamer wrote:
                            > > >>>>>>>> I noticed today that an archer (rogue) using a buckler
                            > > >>>>>>>> (non-proficient) has her skills trashed. This was NOT the case
                            > > >>>>>>>> before, and does not make sense. Especially since I was told
                            > > a rogue
                            > > >>>>>>>> can equip a buckler without penalty. The AC check should be
                            > > 0. Why is
                            > > >>>>>>>> it suddenly affecting SKILLs?
                            > > >>>>>>>>
                            > > >>>>>>>> from the book: "You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty
                            > > while
                            > > >>>>>>>> carrying it."
                            > > >>>>>>> That means you don't get penalties to attack when using the
                            > > bow, which
                            > > >>>>>>> has nothing to do with using skills. The armor check penalty still
                            > > >>>>>>> applies to alls Strength- and Dexterity-based skills. Such is
                            > > the cost
                            > > >>>>>>> for using it non-proficiently.
                            > > >>>>>>>
                            > > >>>>>>> Stefan.
                            > > >>>>>>>
                            > > >>>>>>
                            > > >>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > > >>>>>>
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > ------------------------------------
                            > > >
                            > > > Related Lists
                            > > > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                            > > > PCGen's Mailing Lists and Links:
                            > > http://wiki.pcgen.org/Mailing_Lists_and_PCGen_Links
                            > > > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                            > > > PCGen's JIRA Tracker: http://jira.pcgen.org
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > PCGen List File Help:
                            > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                            > > > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                            > > >
                            > > > PCGen Experimental:
                            > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                            > > > (for new official data source development)
                            > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            > > --
                            > > Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
                            > > Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
                            > > Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
                            > > Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
                            > > Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"
                            > >
                            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                          • pfsgamer
                            I probably should mention that I do tend to glance at the total weight -- but for some reason the font in PCGen window gets cut off... and the 6 truly looked
                            Message 13 of 23 , Mar 10, 2012
                            • 0 Attachment
                              I probably should mention that I do tend to glance at the total weight -- but for some reason the font in PCGen window gets cut off... and the 6 truly looked like 5, which would have been ok.

                              Did not notice that IGHT changed to EDIUM.
                              Have not investigated the font display as it has not been a priority....

                              Curious: is selective BOLD possible in this area, for when encumbrance changes? Just on certain words/numbers.


                              --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "FerretDave" <ferret.griffin@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Greetings,
                              >
                              > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, UnclePete <uncle@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Encumbrance information is already displayed in the panel that shows
                              > > Equipment Info as 'LOAD' including the encumbrance levels, which is very
                              > > useful. Colour coding it may be useful, but I can't see any great benefit.
                              >
                              > You're not the first person to overlook encumberance being the cause of 'odd' skill penalties, so making this more obvious in the GUI may be helpful.
                              >
                              > >
                              > > This info is really only useful when changing a character
                              >
                              > Though knowing during a game that adding/removing some items/loot will change your encumberance is often handy.
                              >
                              > > and it's being
                              > > displayed where it needs to be, so I'd be a bit reluctant to see my
                              > > character sheet further cluttered with stuff I don't need to refer to
                              >
                              > Encumberance is just a couple of lines on the OS, at the bottom of your equipment list is a short summary indicating weight allowances for each level.
                              >
                              > > constantly during a gaming session.
                              > >
                              > > Pete
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > On 03/09/2012 02:26 AM, Andrew wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > In at least the pdf version, you get an encumbrance box that should
                              > > > declare your encumbrance load -
                              > > > it appears under the Base Attack Bonus box. It also only appears if
                              > > > the character is encumbered.
                              > > >
                              > > > I'm not sure I'd appreciate a pop up box while I'm work with the
                              > > > Character. I'd be more inclined to
                              > > > find other methods, like turning the Weight Yellow for Medium Load,
                              > > > Red for Heavy Load, or
                              > > > increasing the size of the font when it reaches an encumbered level.
                              > > >
                              > > > Something Visually Eye Catching. We already have enough pop up
                              > > > dialogs. If you want to go a little
                              > > > further we could add a message to the TO DO box, "Verify your
                              > > > equipment, your character is
                              > > > encumbered* or something akin. We have so many new avenues, like that
                              >
                              > I like the idea of this being in the 'TODO box'.
                              >
                              > > > summary screen has room for a
                              > > > Change to Draw Attention to being encumbered.
                              > > >
                              > > > Cheers,
                              >
                              > Cheers
                              > D
                              > > >
                              > > > On 3/8/2012 5:33 AM, FerretDave wrote:
                              > > > > Perhaps we want the load display enhancing to make this sort of
                              > > > thing more obvious?
                              > > > >
                              > > > > What if, when you add a piece of equipment, if this pushes you from
                              > > > light to medium, or medium to heavy, a dialog pops up warning you?
                              > > > >
                              > > > > A similar 'congrats!' on removing equipment and dropping a level
                              > > > would be amusing too :-)
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Cheers
                              > > > > D
                              > > > >
                              > > > > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com <mailto:pcgen%40yahoogroups.com>,
                              > > > "Paul" <nylanfs@> wrote:
                              > > > >> PFS, make different equipment sets for different situations.
                              > > > >>
                              > > > >> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com <mailto:pcgen%40yahoogroups.com>,
                              > > > "pfsgamer" <losttrader2000@> wrote:
                              > > > >>> Oh my! You are correct and I should have caught that - I am
                              > > > frequently swapping equipment because of the load limit.
                              > > > >>> Thank you! Sorry for the fuss!
                              > > > >>>
                              > > > >>> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com <mailto:pcgen%40yahoogroups.com>,
                              > > > "Distant Scholar" <adventure@> wrote:
                              > > > >>>>
                              > > > >>>> pfsgamer sent me the character file, and I discovered the
                              > > > problem: equipping the darkwood buckler is just enough to put the
                              > > > character into Medium encumbrance.
                              > > > >>>>
                              > > > >>>> Yes, the character was within 2.5 lbs of the Medium encumbrance
                              > > > category.
                              > > > >>>>
                              > > > >>>> DS/DL
                              > > > >>>>
                              > > > >>>> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com <mailto:pcgen%40yahoogroups.com>,
                              > > > "pfsgamer" <losttrader2000@> wrote:
                              > > > >>>>> PCGen 5.1.7.10 w/ PFS Core, APG, Guide 4.0, and Ultimate Combat.
                              > > > >>>>> The Darkwood Buckler is from the Core rulebook.
                              > > > >>>>>
                              > > > >>>>> Thanks for looking into this. The only reason the character got
                              > > > the thing was because she was told it did not produce any penalties,
                              > > > and did not interfere with the bow.
                              > > > >>>>>
                              > > > >>>>> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com <mailto:pcgen%40yahoogroups.com>,
                              > > > Doug Limmer <adventure@> wrote:
                              > > > >>>>>
                              > > > >>>>>> @pfsgamer: What version of PCGen are you using, and what
                              > > > datasets are
                              > > > >>>>>> you loading? (If you gave this information earlier, I've lost it.)
                              > > > >>>>>>
                              > > > >>>>>> DS/DL
                              > > > >>>>>>
                              > > > >>>>>> On 3/6/2012 12:37 PM, Stefan Radermacher wrote:
                              > > > >>>>>>> On 06.03.2012 18:03, pfsgamer wrote:
                              > > > >>>>>>>> I noticed today that an archer (rogue) using a buckler
                              > > > >>>>>>>> (non-proficient) has her skills trashed. This was NOT the case
                              > > > >>>>>>>> before, and does not make sense. Especially since I was told
                              > > > a rogue
                              > > > >>>>>>>> can equip a buckler without penalty. The AC check should be
                              > > > 0. Why is
                              > > > >>>>>>>> it suddenly affecting SKILLs?
                              > > > >>>>>>>>
                              > > > >>>>>>>> from the book: "You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty
                              > > > while
                              > > > >>>>>>>> carrying it."
                              > > > >>>>>>> That means you don't get penalties to attack when using the
                              > > > bow, which
                              > > > >>>>>>> has nothing to do with using skills. The armor check penalty still
                              > > > >>>>>>> applies to alls Strength- and Dexterity-based skills. Such is
                              > > > the cost
                              > > > >>>>>>> for using it non-proficiently.
                              > > > >>>>>>>
                              > > > >>>>>>> Stefan.
                              > > > >>>>>>>
                              > > > >>>>>>
                              > > > >>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > > > >>>>>>
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > ------------------------------------
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Related Lists
                              > > > > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                              > > > > PCGen's Mailing Lists and Links:
                              > > > http://wiki.pcgen.org/Mailing_Lists_and_PCGen_Links
                              > > > > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                              > > > > PCGen's JIRA Tracker: http://jira.pcgen.org
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > PCGen List File Help:
                              > > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                              > > > > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                              > > > >
                              > > > > PCGen Experimental:
                              > > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                              > > > > (for new official data source development)
                              > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > --
                              > > > Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
                              > > > Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
                              > > > Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
                              > > > Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
                              > > > Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"
                              > > >
                              > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > >
                              >
                            • FerretDave
                              Greetings, Enhancing this has already been requested: http://jira.pcgen.org/browse/CODE-1363 Cheers D
                              Message 14 of 23 , Mar 11, 2012
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Greetings,
                                Enhancing this has already been requested:
                                http://jira.pcgen.org/browse/CODE-1363

                                Cheers
                                D
                                --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "pfsgamer" <losttrader2000@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > I probably should mention that I do tend to glance at the total weight -- but for some reason the font in PCGen window gets cut off... and the 6 truly looked like 5, which would have been ok.
                                >
                                > Did not notice that IGHT changed to EDIUM.
                                > Have not investigated the font display as it has not been a priority....
                                >
                                > Curious: is selective BOLD possible in this area, for when encumbrance changes? Just on certain words/numbers.
                                >
                                >
                                > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "FerretDave" <ferret.griffin@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > Greetings,
                                > >
                                > > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, UnclePete <uncle@> wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > Encumbrance information is already displayed in the panel that shows
                                > > > Equipment Info as 'LOAD' including the encumbrance levels, which is very
                                > > > useful. Colour coding it may be useful, but I can't see any great benefit.
                                > >
                                > > You're not the first person to overlook encumberance being the cause of 'odd' skill penalties, so making this more obvious in the GUI may be helpful.
                                > >
                                > > >
                                > > > This info is really only useful when changing a character
                                > >
                                > > Though knowing during a game that adding/removing some items/loot will change your encumberance is often handy.
                                > >
                                > > > and it's being
                                > > > displayed where it needs to be, so I'd be a bit reluctant to see my
                                > > > character sheet further cluttered with stuff I don't need to refer to
                                > >
                                > > Encumberance is just a couple of lines on the OS, at the bottom of your equipment list is a short summary indicating weight allowances for each level.
                                > >
                                > > > constantly during a gaming session.
                                > > >
                                > > > Pete
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > On 03/09/2012 02:26 AM, Andrew wrote:
                                > > > >
                                > > > > In at least the pdf version, you get an encumbrance box that should
                                > > > > declare your encumbrance load -
                                > > > > it appears under the Base Attack Bonus box. It also only appears if
                                > > > > the character is encumbered.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > I'm not sure I'd appreciate a pop up box while I'm work with the
                                > > > > Character. I'd be more inclined to
                                > > > > find other methods, like turning the Weight Yellow for Medium Load,
                                > > > > Red for Heavy Load, or
                                > > > > increasing the size of the font when it reaches an encumbered level.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Something Visually Eye Catching. We already have enough pop up
                                > > > > dialogs. If you want to go a little
                                > > > > further we could add a message to the TO DO box, "Verify your
                                > > > > equipment, your character is
                                > > > > encumbered* or something akin. We have so many new avenues, like that
                                > >
                                > > I like the idea of this being in the 'TODO box'.
                                > >
                                > > > > summary screen has room for a
                                > > > > Change to Draw Attention to being encumbered.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Cheers,
                                > >
                                > > Cheers
                                > > D
                                > > > >
                                > > > > On 3/8/2012 5:33 AM, FerretDave wrote:
                                > > > > > Perhaps we want the load display enhancing to make this sort of
                                > > > > thing more obvious?
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > What if, when you add a piece of equipment, if this pushes you from
                                > > > > light to medium, or medium to heavy, a dialog pops up warning you?
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > A similar 'congrats!' on removing equipment and dropping a level
                                > > > > would be amusing too :-)
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > Cheers
                                > > > > > D
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com <mailto:pcgen%40yahoogroups.com>,
                                > > > > "Paul" <nylanfs@> wrote:
                                > > > > >> PFS, make different equipment sets for different situations.
                                > > > > >>
                                > > > > >> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com <mailto:pcgen%40yahoogroups.com>,
                                > > > > "pfsgamer" <losttrader2000@> wrote:
                                > > > > >>> Oh my! You are correct and I should have caught that - I am
                                > > > > frequently swapping equipment because of the load limit.
                                > > > > >>> Thank you! Sorry for the fuss!
                                > > > > >>>
                                > > > > >>> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com <mailto:pcgen%40yahoogroups.com>,
                                > > > > "Distant Scholar" <adventure@> wrote:
                                > > > > >>>>
                                > > > > >>>> pfsgamer sent me the character file, and I discovered the
                                > > > > problem: equipping the darkwood buckler is just enough to put the
                                > > > > character into Medium encumbrance.
                                > > > > >>>>
                                > > > > >>>> Yes, the character was within 2.5 lbs of the Medium encumbrance
                                > > > > category.
                                > > > > >>>>
                                > > > > >>>> DS/DL
                                > > > > >>>>
                                > > > > >>>> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com <mailto:pcgen%40yahoogroups.com>,
                                > > > > "pfsgamer" <losttrader2000@> wrote:
                                > > > > >>>>> PCGen 5.1.7.10 w/ PFS Core, APG, Guide 4.0, and Ultimate Combat.
                                > > > > >>>>> The Darkwood Buckler is from the Core rulebook.
                                > > > > >>>>>
                                > > > > >>>>> Thanks for looking into this. The only reason the character got
                                > > > > the thing was because she was told it did not produce any penalties,
                                > > > > and did not interfere with the bow.
                                > > > > >>>>>
                                > > > > >>>>> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com <mailto:pcgen%40yahoogroups.com>,
                                > > > > Doug Limmer <adventure@> wrote:
                                > > > > >>>>>
                                > > > > >>>>>> @pfsgamer: What version of PCGen are you using, and what
                                > > > > datasets are
                                > > > > >>>>>> you loading? (If you gave this information earlier, I've lost it.)
                                > > > > >>>>>>
                                > > > > >>>>>> DS/DL
                                > > > > >>>>>>
                                > > > > >>>>>> On 3/6/2012 12:37 PM, Stefan Radermacher wrote:
                                > > > > >>>>>>> On 06.03.2012 18:03, pfsgamer wrote:
                                > > > > >>>>>>>> I noticed today that an archer (rogue) using a buckler
                                > > > > >>>>>>>> (non-proficient) has her skills trashed. This was NOT the case
                                > > > > >>>>>>>> before, and does not make sense. Especially since I was told
                                > > > > a rogue
                                > > > > >>>>>>>> can equip a buckler without penalty. The AC check should be
                                > > > > 0. Why is
                                > > > > >>>>>>>> it suddenly affecting SKILLs?
                                > > > > >>>>>>>>
                                > > > > >>>>>>>> from the book: "You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty
                                > > > > while
                                > > > > >>>>>>>> carrying it."
                                > > > > >>>>>>> That means you don't get penalties to attack when using the
                                > > > > bow, which
                                > > > > >>>>>>> has nothing to do with using skills. The armor check penalty still
                                > > > > >>>>>>> applies to alls Strength- and Dexterity-based skills. Such is
                                > > > > the cost
                                > > > > >>>>>>> for using it non-proficiently.
                                > > > > >>>>>>>
                                > > > > >>>>>>> Stefan.
                                > > > > >>>>>>>
                                > > > > >>>>>>
                                > > > > >>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > > > > >>>>>>
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > ------------------------------------
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > Related Lists
                                > > > > > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                                > > > > > PCGen's Mailing Lists and Links:
                                > > > > http://wiki.pcgen.org/Mailing_Lists_and_PCGen_Links
                                > > > > > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                                > > > > > PCGen's JIRA Tracker: http://jira.pcgen.org
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > PCGen List File Help:
                                > > > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                                > > > > > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > PCGen Experimental:
                                > > > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                                > > > > > (for new official data source development)
                                > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > > --
                                > > > > Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
                                > > > > Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
                                > > > > Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
                                > > > > Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
                                > > > > Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"
                                > > > >
                                > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > > >
                                > >
                                >
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