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Re: [pcgen] PCG File format

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  • Mark Hulsman
    ... Well it definitely is full of hacks. I just added another to save templates for characters. If we found someway to have the last save/load function not
    Message 1 of 12 , Aug 31, 2001
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      > I'm begining to wonder if we shouldn't entirely scrap the pcg file
      > format and redesign it from the ground up. The format is now so full
      > of hacks and kludges, that its very easy to break, and is completely
      > not human readable. The format as it is currently is not extensible,
      > and to make it so would require a complete redesign.
      >
      > Any comments?

      Well it definitely is full of hacks. I just added another to save templates
      for characters. If we found someway to have the last save/load function not
      be a infinite loop it would be great. But a total redesign would be good,
      but if we do it should be designed to totally extendable without causing
      previous versions of it to not be able to load. On solution would be to
      have each line of the file have a tag at the beginning say what this line
      is.
    • Arcady
      Make it look like XML.Have the next three versions after this of PCGen read the old one, and the new one. After three versions remove all the code that
      Message 2 of 12 , Sep 1, 2001
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        Make it look like XML.

        Have the next three versions after this of PCGen read the old one, and the
        new one. After three versions remove all the code that allows the old one to
        still work.

        This is assuming 3 versions is a 3-4 week span of time.

        Let's not make the 8088 ---> PIII mistake...
        At some point, dead weight has to learn it's dead. But there should be a
        reasonable transition period.

        > > I'm begining to wonder if we shouldn't entirely scrap the pcg file
        > > format and redesign it from the ground up. The format is now so full

        > be a infinite loop it would be great. But a total redesign would be good,
        > but if we do it should be designed to totally extendable without causing
        > previous versions of it to not be able to load. On solution would be to


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      • Tom Deprez
        Or, make a little program which converts the code... Tom. ... From: Arcady To: Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001
        Message 3 of 12 , Sep 1, 2001
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          Or, make a little program which converts the code...

          Tom.

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Arcady" <arcady0@...>
          To: <pcgen@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 10:13 AM
          Subject: RE: [pcgen] PCG File format


          > Make it look like XML.
          >
          > Have the next three versions after this of PCGen read the old one, and the
          > new one. After three versions remove all the code that allows the old one
          to
          > still work.
          >
          > This is assuming 3 versions is a 3-4 week span of time.
          >
          > Let's not make the 8088 ---> PIII mistake...
          > At some point, dead weight has to learn it's dead. But there should be a
          > reasonable transition period.
          >
          > > > I'm begining to wonder if we shouldn't entirely scrap the pcg file
          > > > format and redesign it from the ground up. The format is now so full
          >
          > > be a infinite loop it would be great. But a total redesign would be
          good,
          > > but if we do it should be designed to totally extendable without causing
          > > previous versions of it to not be able to load. On solution would be to
          >
          >
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        • pjak@yahoo.com
          ... Seconded. Strongly. We re going to convert to xml eventually, so we might as well make that transition easy. ... and the ... old one to ... We should
          Message 4 of 12 , Sep 1, 2001
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            --- In pcgen@y..., "Arcady" <arcady0@y...> wrote:
            > Make it look like XML.

            Seconded. Strongly. We're going to convert to xml eventually, so we
            might as well make that transition easy.

            > Have the next three versions after this of PCGen read the old one,
            and the
            > new one. After three versions remove all the code that allows the
            old one to
            > still work.
            > This is assuming 3 versions is a 3-4 week span of time.

            We should probably make sure that the last version to read the old
            files is easy to find, given that some people probably don't upgrade
            all the time. Or make a program whose only functionality is to read
            the old files, and write the new files.

            Also, it'd probably be a good idea to rename the .pcg files when we
            switch formats. I.e. instead of .pcg it would .pcl (or something.)

            > Let's not make the 8088 ---> PIII mistake...
            > At some point, dead weight has to learn it's dead. But there should
            be a
            > reasonable transition period.

            I agree.

            /Jonas
          • maxi
            i like the idea that it will be backward compatible, but if it is re-done, it should have the capability of converting the old format/coding to the new, then
            Message 5 of 12 , Sep 1, 2001
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              i like the idea that it will be backward compatible, but if it is
              re-done, it should have the capability of converting the old
              format/coding to the new, then when the old format is wiped, the old
              files are still usable.

              maxi
            • Brass Tilde
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              Message 6 of 12 , Sep 2, 2001
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                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: Mark Hulsman [mailto:hulsmanm@...]
                > previous versions of it to not be able to load. On solution would be to
                > have each line of the file have a tag at the beginning say what this line
                > is.

                Did I hear someone mention XML?

                Brass

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              • merton_monk@yahoo.com
                ... would be to ... this line ... heh - I keep meaning to take a closer look at xml. Whenever that conversion occurs, we will have to be able to read in
                Message 7 of 12 , Sep 2, 2001
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                  --- In pcgen@y..., "Brass Tilde" <brasstilde@y...> wrote:
                  > > -----Original Message-----
                  > > From: Mark Hulsman [mailto:hulsmanm@p...]
                  > > previous versions of it to not be able to load. On solution
                  would be to
                  > > have each line of the file have a tag at the beginning say what
                  this line
                  > > is.
                  >
                  > Did I hear someone mention XML?

                  heh - I keep meaning to take a closer look at xml. Whenever that
                  conversion occurs, we will have to be able to read in pre-xml pcg
                  files. That may be too much work- but I would prefer not to have to
                  force everyone to recreate their characters.

                  -Bryan

                  >
                  > Brass
                  >
                  > _________________________________________________________
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                • mynex2k1@yahoo.com
                  At some point, too many changes to the program will require people to recreate. I seriously doubt that anyone will object (too much) to a recreate of
                  Message 8 of 12 , Sep 2, 2001
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                    At some point, too many changes to the program will require people to
                    recreate. I seriously doubt that anyone will object (too much) to a
                    recreate of characters if there is a drastic overhaul to everything
                    to clean up all the code... Once in a GREAT while. ;)

                    Mynex

                    > heh - I keep meaning to take a closer look at xml. Whenever that
                    > conversion occurs, we will have to be able to read in pre-xml pcg
                    > files. That may be too much work- but I would prefer not to have
                    to
                    > force everyone to recreate their characters.
                    >
                    > -Bryan
                    >
                    > >
                    > > Brass
                    > >
                    > > _________________________________________________________
                    > > Do You Yahoo!?
                    > > Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com
                  • Brass Tilde
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                    Message 9 of 12 , Sep 2, 2001
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                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: merton_monk@... [mailto:merton_monk@...]

                      > heh - I keep meaning to take a closer look at xml. Whenever that
                      > conversion occurs, we will have to be able to read in pre-xml pcg
                      > files. That may be too much work- but I would prefer not to have to
                      > force everyone to recreate their characters.

                      Well, you've already got the code that parses the existing files. When a
                      user opens a PCG file, detect whether it's a new version or not (another
                      advantage of XML, you can include a PCG file version tag), and call the
                      appropriate code to read it. With the appropriate warnings about backwards
                      compatibility, you can then *write* the new format when the character is
                      saved.

                      Everybody will have their characters backed up before such a significant
                      upgrade anyway, right? <g/>

                      Brass


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                    • Yosemite Sam
                      Write a conversion utility in something like perl as a cgi script. Then put it on your web site as a service. ... From: To:
                      Message 10 of 12 , Sep 2, 2001
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                        Write a conversion utility in something like perl as a cgi script. Then put
                        it on your web site as a service.
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: <merton_monk@...>
                        To: <pcgen@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2001 8:56 PM
                        Subject: [pcgen] Re: PCG File format


                        > --- In pcgen@y..., "Brass Tilde" <brasstilde@y...> wrote:
                        > > > -----Original Message-----
                        > > > From: Mark Hulsman [mailto:hulsmanm@p...]
                        > > > previous versions of it to not be able to load. On solution
                        > would be to
                        > > > have each line of the file have a tag at the beginning say what
                        > this line
                        > > > is.
                        > >
                        > > Did I hear someone mention XML?
                        >
                        > heh - I keep meaning to take a closer look at xml. Whenever that
                        > conversion occurs, we will have to be able to read in pre-xml pcg
                        > files. That may be too much work- but I would prefer not to have to
                        > force everyone to recreate their characters.
                        >
                        > -Bryan
                        >
                        > >
                        > > Brass
                        > >
                        > > _________________________________________________________
                        > > Do You Yahoo!?
                        > > Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        > pcgen-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        >
                        >
                      • merton_monk@yahoo.com
                        ... Then put ... Most likely we ll leave the current loading-pcg file methods in place - but when you save it will save in the xml format. The only possible
                        Message 11 of 12 , Sep 2, 2001
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                          --- In pcgen@y..., "Yosemite Sam" <churcht@b...> wrote:
                          > Write a conversion utility in something like perl as a cgi script.
                          Then put
                          > it on your web site as a service.
                          > >

                          Most likely we'll leave the current loading-pcg file methods in place
                          - but when you save it will save in the xml format. The only
                          possible wrench in this scenario is if, for some odd reason, we have
                          to really monkey with our data-structures to placate xml. I doubt
                          this should happen...

                          -Bryan
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